So back to Oleg's then?
I understand that. I by no means intend to insult you in any way, shape or form. I guess that my annoyance mostly comes from the fact that the way you play Alexander in this regard conforms to the type of person I can't stand in real life. As such the comment above was more an accumulation of my own annoyance and I apologize for that. It has no place here.
Thaliar indeed is that guy who cares more about being right than about the actual outcome. The way he sees the most recent negotiation is that it was pointless and that both Alexander and Eduard simply wanted to talk with the thing for the sake of talking and that if things would have continued they'd simply have aggravated the undead thing or would have stood their making demands for days on end.
He considers himself to be the smartest, most learned person around and as such thinks it's only right that others listen to what he says. They don't have to obey him but at least need to take his advice at heart. In character of course.
In regards to the murder thing: he'd plot it, contemplate it and then decide it would be an unwise thing to do. It would probably give him satisfaction at the moment but would be detrimental to his own well being in the long run. He is very selfish but smart enough to know he needs others to accomplish what he wants.
As far as his limited usefulness so far, that is something I'm struggling with as well. It comes in part from the way I built him, partly from how the Investigator class is (it's a slow starter) and partly from the skill overlap we have. I picked the Infusion talent in order to be able to provide buffs to the group as well but so far both my options and my daily allotment are limited.
EDIT: to Oleg's is fine, Thaliar doesn't mind either way .
sorry about the delay. i was involved in an accident. i'm ok, car's in the shop. and everything's great. but i've been preoccupied for the past few days
Whoah! Glad to hear you're okay! Hope the car isn't *too* bad. :(
I think we all need to be cognizant of the social contract we kind of entered into here. We're all playing characters designed for certain roles and not killing each other or undermining each other's ability to do our roles is important. Characters don't have to always agree with each other, but we should keep that in mind.
In character arrogance is fine, but it is actively causing us to frustrate our own efforts. I think if we calm that down, both in what we say and in what we post about our characters thoughts, we'll have a much smoother game.
Edit: And since I said something critical, I'll add something helpful to you as well:
I think mechanically that the infusions are good. Maybe taking a look at what we'll need? We have a somewhat non-standard setup where things like Enlarge Person aren't as amazing. But even more item crafting in general would be good. I have Craft Wondrous, but that's it.
@ Alexander: eh, driver front wheel is sitting crooked and there's damage to the panels from front wheel well to rear wheel well. I've only had the car for 2 years T_T.
That sounds rather bad!
they just clled to tell me they're calling it a loss.
So, now, i need to find a new car. AGAIN
So first, I don't really get what the issue with how Alexander is played is. Perhaps if you could explain that I could change him a bit so we can work it out?
Second, it's really not going to be possible for Thaliar to gain respect in this group the way he's been acting. If he can't at least pretend to respect anyone else in the group, no one is going to listen to him. So far his actions have been a weird combination of undermining the group and giving advice that, at least Alexander if not others, just haven't agreed with. I, for one, can kind of work with one or the other, though obviously advice my character disagrees with is easier to work with than straight up screw jobs. I'm guessing that will help with the whole group, but I can't speak for everyone.
And as for mechanically "useless", I think that came across as needlessly harsh. I'm not actually worried so much about that. (And if I had to guess, neither is anyone else in this particular party.) As an investigator Thaliar will have a lot of utility outside of combats later on. In that regard now he's more useful as an advisor to the group, but as noted, his attitude and actions keep getting in the way of that. And as for combat, the class just isn't built for low levels. But, he'll ramp up fast enough. Or at least as fast as any support character does in Pathfinder.
And Radomir: No! That's terrible! Try a tank this time. I hear they're tough to break. :(
I'm thinking two two-person tents two-one person tents? Though we could do three two-person tents and a one-person tent and have some extra room. The large tents just seem like too much work. Maybe when Radomir gets a squire. ;)
Other than that, do we need any other supplies for long treks?
Don't really think so. We can do some hunting to add to our rations.
As far as the others in the group go Thaliar actually respects all of them, he just think most of them have some failings he could help them with. His approach to helping does leave something to be desired.
As far as the others go (keep in mind this is Thaliar on others characters, not me on other players) he likes Radomir though he thinks the man's a bit thick and too dependant on Alexander. He thinks Eduard is a smart man with a lot of potential held back by the short human lifespan. The fact they have philosophical disagreements is irrelevant to this. Soren is a great archer and good scout but Thaliar isn't quite sure what he can do beyond that. Up until recently Thaliar's opinion of Alexander was a mixed bag, both respecting him for his skill with words and hating him for being better at it. Since the last interaction it moved more towards the hate part. The only person he is confused about is Andrea. He feels she is up to something fishy but also thinks he might be the only one to see it and isn't quite sure what that fishy thing would be.
One thing with Thaliar is that he's used to being hired for his expertise and being listened to when he speaks, it has been like that for longer than some other characters have been alive. Things aren't like that though and he has issues adapting.
No one knows my true motives, MWHAHAHAHAHHA!
Sorry for the delay. Went camping this week a few days longer than expected. I'll be home tomorrow and post right away.
Did Andrea take the masterwork light metal shield? Soren or Tholen could probably use the chain shirt? And Radomir still has to take the masterwork studded leather! :)
Oh, and checking through Soren's other games, it appears he's disappeared for some time. I certainly hope everything is okay!
I do have the MW light shield
Okay, I'll update the loot sheet!
Gah. I'm horrible at updating sheets: I'll get it done presently
Here is the link for the kingdom building rules that we will be using for the game. I like the ones listed there on the SRD better than the ones listed in the book.
Book one ends with you having explored the whole of the Stolen Lands and defeating the Stag Lord. Now, your characters have one years worth of time between that and the beginning of the second book to officially assign roles of the kingdom to each of you, to deal with any crafting and to begin actually building up a city/town/fort farms/terrain improvements or whatever.
As part of completing your charter, securing the land and killing bandits, your group is gifted 50 Build Points to start out with.
Also, I would like to know what alignment you are assigning your kingdom. Right now I am going to assume Evil.
For having finished, you may also go ahead and level your character up to level 4.
+1 Charisma
+1 Reflex Save
+1 Will Save
+1 BAB
+2 Bardic Performance uses per day
+2 2nd-level Spells per day
+2 2nd-level Spells Known: Glitterdust, Invisibility
Swapping in Feather Fall for Cure Light Wounds
Skills (6+2 Int+1 favored class bonus)
+1 Athletics
+1 Knowledge (nature)
+1 Knowledge (religion)
+1 Perform (oratory)
+1 Perform (percussion)
+1 Ride
+1 Spellcraft
+1 Stealth
+1 Use Magic Device
I'm also planning on switching to the Animal Speaker archetype. This will cost 600 gold and take 15 days. I assume we'll have fifteen free days in the coming year? :)
At some point we should divvy up the rest of the loot and figure out what people want or don't want. I have a worksheet for kingdom building, so I'll take a loot at it a little later and we can figure out how we want to handle all of that.
Level 4
+1=9
+1 Bab
+1 Fort/Will
+1 1st/2nd spell a day
Skills 5/level
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Bluff
+1 Sense Motive
+1 Perception
+1 Linguistics (Sylvan)
As for roles. I could be councilor.
As for alignment, evil. After, all we will want a peaceful land and quiet people.
Andrea will take 9 crossbow bolts to fill her quiver and there is really nothing else. The +1 flaming bolts might be better given to a fighter.
updated Radomir. gonna crash soon, so i'll fix tghe header later.
Radomir could be Warden or Royal Enforcer
I'm down with Andrea as a Councilor! and as for Radomir, anything that is based on strength seems like it would work. Though the description of Warden as someone who oversees the protection of the other Kingdom Leadership sounds spot on.
Loot:
If no one is taking the Boots of Elvenkind we should hold on to them. Someone might eventually want them. At worst, Alexander can use them. It seems a waste to sell them. Same with the Ring of Swimming. Someone might want it.
I assume that Eduard will eventually grab the Bracers, Wand of MM, and the scroll of Fly? And Thaliar might grab the dust? It's only one dose, but it might be useful sometime.
Andrea might as well take the flaming bolts. They're barely worth selling and she's the only one that uses a crossbow.
We can clear out everything else, excluding the pack mule that we've got carrying stuff. Might be worth keeping him around with his extra gear. Radomir still needs to take that mw studded leather. Also, does he want the mw Scalemail? And does anyone want the mw chain shirt?
Oh, and the Ranseur +1! Did anyone want to take that? It's a pretty poor reach weapon, but it is magical if someone is desperate.
Alignment:
I'm, of course, voting Evil. :)
But we also need to come up with a name! Any suggestions? I think Alexander would be pushing for something about Freedom. His main goal is to establish a country where freedom is paramount. The ability to worship anything, and sell or buy anything, as long as you follow the Law is high on his list of priorities. (While the sale of slaves won't be outlawed, the sale of any citizen of *this* kingdom will be severely punished.) However, civil rights might be in short supply. Corruption will be rooted out and punished harshly by a strong and well-supplied secret police.
Also, Alexander is into birds (specifically ravens, but generally any birds). So some of his proposed names might have that theme too. I'll try to come up with some today.
Anyone else have any proposals?
To fill out more kingdom roles, you are allowed to recruit NPCs.
To fill out more kingdom roles, you are allowed to recruit NPCs.
Are there specific NPCs interested in roles, and what roles are they interested in?
I'm guessing Kavken wants to be High Priest? Does Oleg or Svetlana want a role in the Kingdom? And Kesten, I'm sure. Possible General? Maybe Auchs as the Royal Enforcer? ;)
Jhod Kavken would be interested in the High Priest role.
Kesten would take Warden or General.
Oleg would take Treasurer.
Svetlana has no preference, but maybe Grand Diplomat?
Tartuk is still with your group, not sure what you want to do with him.
I also went ahead and put out a recruitment thread to replace Soren. It seems safe to say that he is not returning. Specifying that we want a survival/range type character.
And yes, Alexander, it is okay to switch to Animal Speaker.
Gold deducted and character sheet updated.
I'm assuming we can finally sell off the rest of these trade goods? I think we can get rid of everything. I think Radomir put the studded leather on his sheet (though it's not listed as masterwork).
So far, the list of things that I think we're keeping are:
Flaming Bolt +1 (7)
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (2) - I suggest Thaliar and Eduard take one each.
Boots of Elvenkind
Dust of Illusion (1 dose) - Someone grab it.
Wand of Magic Missiles (28 charges) - What level is this wand? First? If so...I suppose we could just give it back.
Scroll of Fly - Eduard
Bracers of Armor +1 - Eduard
Ring of Swimming
Everything else I think we can part with. I don't *think* anyone needs any of the armor remaining. We can keep the arrows and bolts because...why not. And I'm guessing we can either give Tartuk back his journal, or Eduard will take it. (Or Thaliar, maybe?)
You all have plenty of time to send people off to any main city to sell everything you have left.
And yes, the magic missile wand was just first level.
Tartuk as Magister?
I was just looking over last post dates and noticed that Thaliar has not posted in game since August 2nd. Thaliar, if you are still around and interested in continuing the game, let us know. If not, I'll add +1 to our current recruit thread.
The beginning of the second book has a list of a few locations that receive bonuses for being used as your founding city. I will list them below:
Three of the locations in the northern Greenbelt the PCs had a chance to discover and explore in Stolen Land could make excellent sites to found cities, due to the presence of buildings or ruins. These three sites are as follows.
Oleg’s Trading Post: The trading post is a versatile structure built to serve as a place of business. If the PCs decide to found a city in this hex, they can incorporate Oleg’s as a free Shop, Stable, or Watchtower in their city grid (once chosen, the function of Oleg’s within the new city cannot be changed).
Temple of the Elk: Although the Temple of the Elk is partially ruined, building a city here gives the PCs a head start on a Temple, halving the initial cost of building such a structure.
The Stag Lord’s Fort: Located at the heart of the Greenbelt on a defensible hill near a plentiful source of water, fishing, and trade, the Stag Lord’s Fort may be
the single best place to place a capital city. The fort itself gives the PCs a head start on building a castle, halving the initial cost of such a structure. In addition, if the PCs make this site their capital city, their nation gains a +1 bonus on Economy, Loyalty, and Stability due to its centralized location and ease of defense.
I think we agreed to let the kobolds build there? If otherwise, it would make the best spot.
Took average HP.
+1 Int, Glitterdust and Blur as spells.
Hmm.. If Thalir has dropped, maybe he can be NPC spymaster?
Build rules do look a little overwhelming. We should certainly start small.
Oh, we didn't give the fort to the kobolds. We agreed to allow them to help Kesten and his men rebuild it. :)
For role preference, I'd prefer to take Spymaster. I could do Magister though if need be.
Warden or royal enforcer wold be good
Get that big metal boot of yours working!
Hopefully we can find a replacement(s) by the end of this holiday weekend and do some serious kingdom building before starting the next adventure.
So, it's hard to do any planning before we know who will be filling which spots. I think we have the four of us pretty well situated.
I think we will definitely turn the Stag Lord's fort into our first settlement. That bonus is a bit hard to pass up. In my opinion, our plan should generally be to make a road back to Oleg's from the Fort. Make those areas Farmland, and then expand out from there, probably to the Mine first and then just cherry-pick places that are good or would make good farmland.
Also, we need to name the settlement and the kingdom. Any ideas?
Kingdom of Spikeskull!
Hmmm Road to Oleg's of course, a watchtower near the mine? Maybe Bokken would be interested in moving to town as an alchemist?
That'll work. We could man the watchtower with kobolds. ;)
Oh, so for names: The benefit of being a linguist is that I work with a lot of people that know a lot of languages. One of my very close friends happens to be a Russian native speaker, so I asked him for some Slavic sounding names (to fit in with the Brevoy naming scheme). Here are some options:
Dobromir (Kind and Peace loving)
Stanimir (One that creates peace) - I found this to be an ironically good name for us in particular.
Svobodolyub (Freedom Lover)
Olenkholm (Stag Hill)
Voronakholm (Raven's Hill) - I particularly like this one as it's bird related (but not eagle). A lot of people name the city something related to stags, but I'd prefer to forget the Stag Lord entirely.
Other non-Slavic names (more old English style):
Stagholme
Ravensguarde
Haven
Refuge
Providence
----
I particularly like Stanimir for the Kingdom name and Voronakholm for the settlement. (And as a note, Alexander will be gathering a lot of ravens for use as spies now that he has the animal speaker archetype). I like the raven as a heraldic symbol as well: A symbol of divine providence but also the harbinger of death.
Stanmir. So we can have A peaceful land and quiet people.
So unless there are other claims, we can probably sell lot and divvy gold.