GM Tribute, I'm a little confused about this combat.
1) First, are these large or medium crocs? On the map they only seem to take up one grid, but the d8 damage seems to be for large animals. If they ARE large, how did they all get an attack on Bouzz? It seems there wouldn't have been enough room on the map for all of them to get an attack on her if they were large.
2) Was the first attack part of a surprise round?
3) How many attacked Bouzz on the surprise round and how many hit? You didn't list the total attack bonuses, but given that they did 4d8 damage, does that mean that four hit? If so, what did they roll? Even if Bouzz was surprised by all four (which she seemed to have been) her flat-footed AC was still 21.
4) On what was the first full round on combat, did Bouzz trigger an AoO? Did the crocs hit? Did they do damage to the snake? I'm trying to figure out how much damage she's taken in total, and it's still a bit confusing to me.
5) How deep is the water in various locations? Can we stand in it?
The crocs attacked in a surprise round. The water is ten to fifteen feet deep. Three hit, one critically in the surprise round.
Bouzz triggered one AoO withdrawing as the first square is free, but subsequent squares can trigger. That allowed Bouzz to only trigger one AoO when the large template moved twice.
The crocodiles come up from the bottom. They are supposed to attack anyone in the water first and canoes second according to the module. With the large template and grappling Sandrion with their jaws, sheer physics would probably force their tails down in the water, so the template is two tiles deep and one tile wide.
Anyone in the water needs to make a swim DC15 to swim. Failing by five means you sink, so DC11 swim technically means you can stay afloat. Anything less and you are holding your breath and will have difficulty attacking, but it should be possible.
Land-based creatures can have considerable difficulty when fighting in water. Water affects a creature's attack rolls, damage, and movement. In some cases a creature's opponents might get a bonus on attacks. The effects are summarized on Table: Combat Adjustments Underwater. They apply whenever a character is swimming, walking in chest-deep water, or walking along the bottom of a body of water.
Table: Combat Adjustments Underwater
Freedom of movement normal/normal normal/normal normal No
Has a swim speed –2/half normal normal No
Successful Swim check –2/half2 normal quarter or half3 No
Firm footing4 –2/half2 normal half No
None of the above –2/half2 –2/half normal Yes
1 Creatures flailing about in the water (usually because they failed their Swim checks) have a hard time fighting effectively. An off-balance creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and opponents gain a +2 bonus on attacks against it.
2 A creature without freedom of movement effects or a swim speed makes grapple checks underwater at a –2 penalty, but deals damage normally when grappling.
3 A successful Swim check lets a creature move one-quarter its speed as a move action or one-half its speed as a full-round action.
4 Creatures have firm footing when walking along the bottom, braced against a ship's hull, or the like. A creature can only walk along the bottom if it wears or carries enough gear to weigh itself down: at least 16 pounds for Medium creatures, twice that for each size category larger than Medium, and half that for each size category smaller than Medium.
Ranged Attacks Underwater: Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range.
Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.
Fire: Nonmagical fire (including alchemist's fire) does not burn underwater. Spells or spell-like effects with the fire descriptor are ineffective underwater unless the caster makes a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the spell creates a bubble of steam instead of its usual fiery effect, but otherwise the spell works as described. A supernatural fire effect is ineffective underwater unless its description states otherwise. The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell. If the caster has made the caster level check to make the fire spell usable underwater, the surface still blocks the spell's line of effect.
Spellcasting Underwater: Casting spells while submerged can be difficult for those who cannot breathe underwater. A creature that cannot breathe water must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell underwater (this is in addition to the caster level check to successfully cast a fire spell underwater). Creatures that can breathe water are unaffected and can cast spells normally. Some spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion.
I'll be GMing 6 slots at a con this weekend so if needed GMPC me (hopefully I won't be dead!). Will try to check in, but you might not hear from me until Sun night/Monday.
Some groups didn't make it past the crocodiles. They were tough!
Sorry, I'm still confused. How much damage did Bouzz take in all?
We may be in that category. Not sure we could have done much different though, perceiving them was pretty hard before the first attacks. The perfect ambush!
Bouzz went underwater with after taking 5d8+20
Bouzz went underwater with [dice=hp]-2-1d8 after taking 5d8+20
Thanks. Let me know if I need to start making drowning rolls for him as well.
Hmm. They're crocodiles, so they have to breathe (I'm assuming at least one of us knows that about crocodiles), so they'd have to stay near the surface. I could acid splash them all day, but they'd likely just swim to another part of this underground lake/river/what-have-you.
Do we have a way to lure them onto the land, and keep them there? Preferably one at a time?
Also, how did whoever left these boats here cross the way? Did they bring distracting bait, or something?
I have some options now
- Wild Empathy - but requires 1 min plus and can't exactly be used while they're on the bottom of the water.
- Summon Nature's Ally to lure them to the surface
But, with overnight rest, I could offer more options
- Calm Animals
- Charm Animal
- Hide from Animals
- Speak with Animals
- Hold Animal
The summons sounds perfect. Anything aquatic on the list to give the poor guy a fighting chance? My option was to wade in myself but I like your idea better!
The rat and I are gonna get some crocodile skin boots! (or at least do our best to draw the crocs back to the surface)
I'm helping run PFS at a convention this weekend, so my posting will be sparse Thu-Sun.
I'm back from organizing the con!
In response to William's request for healing, I believe Skirros has a wand of CLW.
(Next time I build a 4th level character...that will be the first item I will buy!)
BTW I am more than happy to pay my share of the used charges fore healing. As the BSF buying a wand on my own seemed odd though. Perhaps you are right though and I should have picked one up.
I am happy for folks to use my happy stick. I didn't buy it just for myself.
Sorry to have been away so long, but I was busy at a con. Glad to see that things progressed nicely!
On a different topic, I really hate to be a pain, but I really, really need to get another animal companion. This may simply be self-interest talking, but in combat terms, my druid/fighter/rogue is somewhat underwhelming; she really needs the AC.
In order to get a new AC, I need to pray for 24 hours. Before I post something like "Skirros leaves the caves to go off somewhere ..." IC, would the other players and GM be willing to have me halt our progression for a day while I sit and meditate?
If that IS kosher, would the GM allow me to get a snake again?
EDIT: Also, do we need to retro some use of my CLW?
I am OK with spending the time for Skirros to get another AC. (Heck, it was Sandrion's suggestion which got Bouzz killed in the first place...)
We just need to find a suitable place in the City to hole up without being discovered. Once we have entered the city proper, then we should find a campsite ASAP.
Sandrion is fine with using the potions on himself...William should get some retro healing though.
Hi Chainmail, I left 787gp for consumables and never got round to spending it until we were in the fight. Now that I realise we could do with the healing - could I retro spend it on another healing wand?
If not fine, its my mistake.
Cheers
I'm fine if we want to break for that after the bugbears. Up to Tribute if he gives us that chance though!
In case the GM lets me, here are some rolls for my wand of CLW for William. Some GMs allow one to take averages. In case Tribute doesn't ...
That's 20 hp back, William. If that's enough, I'll leave it there, if not:
Thanks Skirros! Rest on or no William appreciates the healing.
as for the other perhaps we can secure the guard room to give us enough time.
I have been slammed irl.
Post up soon.
Add the CLW wand, no problem.
You will find that you have alarmed a well organized guard, slipping into the city will only get harder if you wait around. You will have to decide if it is worth it to retreat back into the jungle to get an animal companion.
I cannot find where everyone is on the map, and each person you shoot through is a -4. So I think I know the first three in the order because they are on the map. The rest I haven't figured out yet.
You should be able to put yourself on the map. I think the first three spots by the door are accounted for.
I put Bikmalu in column Z, but might adjust once everyone else is on there. He'd almost surely be toward the back.
In combat terms, I am like a fighter without his primary weapon at the moment, so I'd really like to get a new AC.
On the other hand, we could simply stay where we are and I could complete the ritual here. We're close enough to the jungle (with the GM's approval) that I could draw another jungle animal in. Or I could try to get one of those crocs as an AC?
Crocs would seem logical. My son made great use of one with his druid in PFS play. I have fond memories of us hoisting it up into a belfry with a makeshift rope harness.
I put myself on the map where I think I am. Feel free to move me if I'm in the way. (My natural 20 hits no matter where you put me! :-)
I don't mean to be critical, but the infrequency of GM posts in this adventure is starting to concern me. In my experience with PbP games, once a GM's frequency drops to less than once a day, the entire endeavor can really lose steam and lead to a general loss of interest that can kill a game. Since I have really been enjoying this adventure, I would like that not to happen.
I completely understand RL intruding and making demands. In those instances, a short post in the OOC thread to let the players know what is happening and how long it should take to resolve issues generally suffices. Basically, the most important thing it to keep players informed, as that allows one to handle expectations. If a longer hiatus is needed, then that should be announced as well.
So my questions to the GM are:
1) Do you want to continue this game (I assume yes, but want to make sure)
2) Are you planning on increasing your posting rate, or do you need to put the game on hiatus until you can? If you are planning on increasing it again, when can we expect the increase in frequency?
Again, I apologize if I am a bit too brusk. It is not my intention to offend, only to help the game.
Thanks for letting us know!
Thanks Skirros! Rest on or no William appreciates the healing.
as for the other perhaps we can secure the guard room to give us enough time.
William, did you take the 5th charge from the wand? You never said.
Sorry Skirros. 4 hits get me almost fully healed. That is enough. No sense using up another charge until after the next fight.
A couple of rules questions (GM has final say, of course):
1. When we're all stacked up like this, is there just one +4 cover bonus to AC for the bugbears, or +4 for each person in the way?
2. Are bugbears still Large? If so, they seem to be mightily squeezed together.
Bugbears are not technically large sized, but they are large for medium creatures and Talon did not do well on perception roll at door.
There is +4 for each in line. But I am not being too picky here.
"Looks like we're whittling them down," cries Skirros, "keep 'em coming!"
Oops, that was obviously meant for the IC thread. Embarrassing.
There is +4 for each in line. But I am not being too picky here.
As far as I understand it, there is only a single +4 bonus to AC, no matter how many squares of cover you are firing through. There is such a thing as improved cover (+8 to AC), but that's only when firing at someone through an arrow slit or similar obstruction. Cover does not stack with itself as far as I know, since it's the same "type".
Just looked--doesn't seem cover bonuses stack. So you can shoot through a line of 99 people at 100' and by RAW the penalty is the same as shooting through one.
I would figure shooting through 99 people is like shooting through an arrow slit.
Un typed bonuses stack as do several other types of bonuses. I am not saying that is the case here. I don't see anything about stacking cover either but I think that is because once you have enough cover you end up with total cover. At some point the number of people would be similar to shooting through an arrow slit. An arrow slit isn't the ONLY way to get total cover. It isn't clear if that is after 2, 3 or more but it will happen.
I had exactly the same conversation with someone at a con last spring and was proved wrong. I ruled that shooting through three party members was not possible in combat since they and the monsters were actually moving around. Alot. My bad. Yet another reason to play an archer.
Magical treasure should go to the best person, the rest just split equally unless someone wants to be a loot tracker?
Magical treasure should go to the best person, the rest just split equally unless someone wants to be a loot tracker?
Since this is just a single adventure, I agree.
I would figure shooting through 99 people is like shooting through an arrow slit.
I'd agree with this. In the end it's the GM's decision. In this instance, you could also say that you aren't literally firing THROUGH each person, you could be firing over them. After all, there is generally some free space over where the people are standing.
curious, are you sure you guys need me? seems I am not adding any value to this expedition except to shoot with my bow. might as well have been a ranger archer instead...
There haven't been that many encounters yet. Vardlon hasn't accomplished a whole lot yet, either.
I'm very confident we'll need your skills Talon.
...and sooner rather than later I would imagine, seeing as there is a chest here...
In my years of gaming, I have never found that a class is superfluous. And if we're covering each other's skill sets, just bringing out the PC's personality in order to differentiate him/her a bit can really help. PbP especially is more like a cooperative novel than a tabletop RPG in any case, and in fiction it's the personalities that really make the characters stand out.
And just as an FYI, please let me know when any arrow shots by me don't hit something, as I will try to pick them up afterwards. In the last combat, for instance, I think I hit with three, but missed with one.