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Okay, so I just had a really cool idea. I wanted to run a non-mythic Wrath of the Righteous, and I was trying to figure out a way to make it possible without mythic power, and then I hit upon the gestalt idea.
For those unfamiliar with gestalt rules, here are the basics.
A gestalt character is basically a character with the class abilities of 2 or more classes. As you level up, you gain the class features of both, except where they overlap. For example, a gestalt sorcerer/barbarian would have d12 HD, full BAB progression, a bloodline, rage, and spells.
In my game, you will start out as normal characters until the moment when you would normally gain mythic power. Then, you gain you full gestalt abilities.
I have never ran a gestalt game before, so I am not entirely sure if this will be too easy or too hard. I expect it depends on how well built the party is.
- 25 point buy
- Normal starting wealth
- Everything from Paizo is allowed, but 3rd part content requires my approval.
- Several player races are banned, as well as a handful of other things. Most of them are obscure munchkiny abominations that should never have been printed in the first place.
Races:
Trox, Kasatha, Lashunta. Reason: Trox allows someone to temporarily get 30+ Strength at first level, Kasatha can potentially wield up to 4 weapons at once, and Lashunta has a variety of factors making it stronger than other options, especially for casters.
Feats:
Primal Ancestry, Realistic Likeness. Reason: Primal Ancestry gives temporary DR 5/cold iron with only a fluff prerequisite to hold you back, and Realistic Likeness allows a kitsune to turn into any human they have ever met.
Keep in mind that this is my first time running an online game (although I have GMed before in person), and that this game might not be perfect. That being said, have fun!
I'm game.
From my experience, I'd say that gestalt will be up to it if you have people who are buidling for synergy rather than diversity. Gestalt can go either way. You'll need to pick people with that inclination. Also you'll need to grant the mythic companion feat so people are counted as mythic without having the explicit abilities. Otherwise there are sharp penalties being normal against a lot of mythic abilities.
I ran a module with gestalt vs. mythic and I didn't do enough to pump up my mythic conversions (the module was not mythic) so they steamrolled the critters.
You will probably need to pump up WotR given the quality of twinks around here.
Sounds interesting.
I don't have a lot of experience with Gestalt, how does Gestalt work with prestige classes? I'm guessing the prestige class takes over for half of the gestalt?
The reason I ask is that the first thought that popped into my mind was an angel blooded aasimar paladin/draconic (gold or silver) bloodline sorcerer heading into dragon disciple.
"sweet taste" Ok...? I guess he'll make a good snack for when he is eaten by some overpowered monster.
"You have a natural fly speed of 20 feet (poor)." That's useful.
Dotting with above rolls. Going to make a Scaled Fist Unchained Monk / Sorceror.
Interested.
Dotty
Thinking pyschic/fighter so I can tromp around in heavy armor and zap people. I've never actually played a gestalt game before though, so there might be a better way to achieve what I'm thinking.
Likely I would go fighter/paladin for the tankiest tank of tankdom.
Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist)/Paladin (Sacred Shield) for ultimate tank cheese.
This is Grumbaki's submission:
Cleric / Unchained Monk Gestalt Submission
Here for party healing and punching enemies in the face.
Name Eldric Lightborn
Classes Cleric of Kurgess and Unchained Monk
Alignment Lawful Good
Languages Common, Celestial
Race Garuda-Blooded (Plumekith) Aasimar
+2 Dex +2 Wis
* See Invisibility traded for 20ft fly speed (poor)
* Skilled (+2 fly, +2 acrobatics)
* Celestial Resistance (Acid, Cold, Electricity Resistance 5)
Traits
* Blessed Touch (You heal 1 additional point of damage when using lay on hands, channeling energy, or casting a cure spell.)
* Fate's Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
Str (16) Dex (16) Con (14) Int (10) Wis (17) Cha (8) HP (13) CMB (+4) CMD (20) Land Speed (40-60) Fly Speed Poor (20)
Saves
Fort: +2 (monk) + 2 (con) = +4
Ref: +2 (monk) + 3 (dex) = +5
Will: +2 (cleric) + 3 (wis) = +5
Armor
AC: 10 (base) + 2 (dex) + 3 (wis) + 1 (dodge) = 16
Touch: 10 (base) + 2 (dex) + 3 (wis) +1 dodge = 16
Flat Footed: 10 + 3 (wis) = 13
Attacking
To Hit: +4/+4 (+6 with divine favor)
Damage: 1d6+1d4+3 (+5 with divine favor)
Equipment
* Cleric's Kit (? gold)
* 140 gold
Combat Feats
* Dodge (+1 Dodge AC) [lvl 1 monk bonus feat]
* Stunning Fist (You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn). A stunned character drops everything held, can’t take actions, loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and takes a –2 penalty to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned.) [lvl 1 monk feat]
* Improved Unarmed Strike (1d6 lethal damage) [lvl 1 monk feat]
* Belier's Bite (+1d4 bleed damage) [lvl 1 feat]
Flurry of Blows
* At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).
Skills
* Diplomacy: 1 skill point (+7)
* Intimidate: 1 skill point (+7)
* Sense Motive: 1 skill point (+7)
* Fly: 1 skill point (+7)
Channel Energy
* Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric’s level + the cleric’s Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channel energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.
Domains
* Conversion Inquisition (Wis for Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate)
* Travel Domain (Granted Powers: You are an explorer and find enlightenment in the simple joy of travel, be it by foot or conveyance or magic. Increase your base speed by 10 feet.
Agile Feet (Su): As a free action, you can gain increased mobility for 1 round. For the next round, you ignore all difficult terrain and do not take any penalties for moving through it. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.
Domain Spells: 1st—longstrider, 2nd—locate object, 3rd—fly, 4th—dimension door, 5th—teleport, 6th—find the path, 7th—teleport (greater), 8th—phase door, 9th—astral projection.)
Lvl 0 Spells
* Purify Food and Drink
* Create Water
* Stabilize
Lvl 1 Spells 3 spells per day
* Longstrider (+20ft land movement, 1hr per level)
* 2x Divine Favor (1 minute, +2 hit and +2 damage)
- Can turn any of the above into cure light wounds
Garudas are noble but impetuous birdlike celestials, and most garuda-blooded aasimars grow graceful feathers during puberty. The majority of these aasimars have shimmering wings; the wings can be of virtually any shade, ranging from metallic colors to muted hues to pure white, or rarely, glossy black. Plumekith are sometimes born with taloned fingers or toes, and occasionally amber eyes like those of an eagle.
Like their celestial ancestors, plumekith tend to take action at the spur of the moment when their abilities seem needed. Plumekith rush into the heat of battle to face off against evildoers, only stopping to ask questions afterward. Plumekith often have an extreme hatred for nagas and other snakelike creatures, a racial disdain no doubt stemming back to their garuda forebears.
Eldirc is a Plumekith Aasimar. This is plain to see from the pure white birdlike wings that sprout from his back. Raised by his mother, a devout worshiper of Kurgess, he has spent nearly his entire life on the road. When he asked about his father, his mother explained that she had met the celestial in a dream, and that when she woke she was pregnant with him. It was an explanation which he accepted without question. As a follower of Kurgess, his mother traveled from city to city, spreading the faith and supporting the faithful. In this, Eldric soon proved to be invaluable. From his father's blood, he could stave off death with a touch, mend wounds, and make spoiled food fresh again. From his mother, he was raised to be an athlete. She taught him that everyone's body was a temple, and that through stringent exercise and rigorous training, one gave devotion to Kurgess. This, along with his celestial heritage, made him into a promising monk.
However, there was one thing that was set into him. Into his body and soul: a wanderlust, mixed with the desire to make the world a better place. This wasn't exactly a weakness, but mixed in naivety and feeling of invulnerability, it turned out to be. When traveling through a town, he heard the call for volunteers to join the Fifth Mendevian Crusade. So flush was he with both the desire to see the worldwound, but also to truly put his talents to use, he signed up. It wasn't until he saw the look on his mother's face that he realized how much of a commitment he had made. But still, his heart was set on it. And as such, he has set off. To bring healing to the crusaders, and his fists upon the tainted.
Dotting this
I've really wanted to play a Barbarian/Kineticist, nice synergy and Telekinesis gives some utility outside of battle. Dotting.
Hi Sam! Nice idea! It'll be tough to adjust some enemies, though. Aren't many of them mythic?
Are background skills in effect? What about drawbacks?
If I understood correctly, our submissions should be that of a single class, normal, which later on will become a gestalt?
I'm considering a Bloodrager, later getting Kineticist on his other side, probably. :)
Thanks
Would path of war be available?
Yes, dotting.
@gm Sam: I have a character that would need to be edited, he's from in the company of angels. So it's an angel monster class that I would love to Mix with cleric or paladin if you'd allow me to.
Updated crunch in profile. Monk/Cleric now has an archetype and a weapon. Crunch may be tweaked a bit more, but should be more or less complete.
Dotting for interest, thinking warpriest mixed with something else, maybe monk or cleric.
Hmm, on second thought, we've got quite a few tanky types already, maybe a dedicated caster would be more useful. Maybe an empyreal sorcerer/inquisitor?
OK, since I'm actually running a game of WotR, I will point out that you don't go mythic in the AP till 6th level (and the game has stated that gestalt will sub for mythic and thus start at the same time). Hence people should probably be building a single class 1st level character. It's not a bad idea to plan ahead though (especially with gestalt in mind) so maybe build also for a higher level when you are gestalt. Given that you are going to be fighting mythic stuff without mythic tools, you should consider synergies.
Ah, I see. That changes a lot. Will de-gestalt my character then.
Griffith. Here is my Angelic Paragon, a warrior of Ragathiel. I would just need to delevel him, change his stats and remove a couple things. An angel would be very flavorful for this adventure.
drbuzzard, I understand. In that case, I think I'll start with Inquisitor, focusing on monster lore and support.
My character can be very versatile, I would focus on melee, support and party buffs with some healing.
Oracle (spirit guide), eventually taking Paladin on the other side of the gestalt.
I'll have a bow + some number of CLW/Channel at level 1.
@lerox: I'm waiting on the gm's approval. I'm fairly competent on building characters because of my dming experience.
Thinking maybe a Half-Elf Ranger (Tanglebriar Demonslayer), but not sure what do make the other side of the gestalt. Several things could be interesting. Ah, well. I guess there's time.
Dotting for interest - Would a Paladin (Divine Hunter)/Monk (Zen Archer) be too cheesy?
Reading the GM OP, start with Paladin and then gestalt to Monk later.
If PoW was available, might take levels in Marksman.
Thought about it...going to change my submission to be a Sacred Fist Warpriest. Closest to current build. Then when we go gestalt I'll add in levels of Wild Hunter Ranger.
Will give the party early healing. A big boost in killing power when we hit 'mythic' and both use Wis for spells.
So since the characters wouldn't become Gestalt until they would normally become Mythic at about 6th level, would they automatically gain 6 levels of the new class, possibly recalculating hp and saves if the hit dice and save progression is better? Or will the new class be 5 levels behind the old class?
dotting.
Hi Sam! Nice idea! It'll be tough to adjust some enemies, though. Aren't many of them mythic?
Are background skills in effect? What about drawbacks?
If I understood correctly, our submissions should be that of a single class, normal, which later on will become a gestalt?
I'm considering a Bloodrager, later getting Kineticist on his other side, probably. :)
Thanks
I will not be adjusting the enemies too much, since gestalt characters can be absurdly powerful if built properly.
Backround skills are fine, and you can have 1 drawback, as long as you roleplay it a little.
You did understand correctly. I decided to do it that way, because the idea is to have gestalt take the place of mythic as the 'special power' that makes the campaign possible for anyone not powergamed beyond belief.
So since the characters wouldn't become Gestalt until they would normally become Mythic at about 6th level, would they automatically gain 6 levels of the new class, possibly recalculating hp and saves if the hit dice and save progression is better? Or will the new class be 5 levels behind the old class?
You would automatically gain the 6 levels. I hope it isn't too much of a hassle, but the first book of the AP would be way too easy if you started out as gestalt.
My character can be very versatile, I would focus on melee, support and party buffs with some healing.Not to be a downer, but did you get GM approval for the 3pp thing?
Also, speaking of DM approval, @GM Sam, how do you rule that Smite Evil interacts with stuff?
Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses.Soo... Is that restricted to damage rolls from weapon attacks? What about spells that give multiple damage rolls, like Magic Missile?
I think it's pretty clear that each damage roll from the paladin deals smite damage individually, no matter where they come from, but YMMV.
This is kind of relevant to my nascent plans of a Sorcerer//Paladin
I don't know how that works. See if there is anything in the FAQ. I would normally rule yes, but I think that it could get way out of hand at mid to late levels. I will go with the official ruling if there is one though.
Normally spell effects only get bonuses per each if they actually roll to hit. If it was something like magic missile, probably not. For example, the evoker specialist ability which boosts damage only does it once per spell (otherwise magic missile would get out of hand).
Yes, dotting.
@gm Sam: I have a character that would need to be edited, he's from in the company of angels. So it's an angel monster class that I would love to Mix with cleric or paladin if you'd allow me to.
Can you post a link to this content?
Normally spell effects only get bonuses per each if they actually roll to hit. If it was something like magic missile, probably not. For example, the evoker specialist ability which boosts damage only does it once per spell (otherwise magic missile would get out of hand).
I will go with this.
I'm game.
From my experience, I'd say that gestalt will be up to it if you have people who are buidling for synergy rather than diversity. Gestalt can go either way. You'll need to pick people with that inclination. Also you'll need to grant the mythic companion feat so people are counted as mythic without having the explicit abilities. Otherwise there are sharp penalties being normal against a lot of mythic abilities.
I ran a module with gestalt vs. mythic and I didn't do enough to pump up my mythic conversions (the module was not mythic) so they steamrolled the critters.
You will probably need to pump up WotR given the quality of twinks around here.
I forgot to mention that in my original post. Everyone is counted as mythic for the purpose of mythic crap that automatically kills normal people.
I forgot to mention that in my original post. Everyone is counted as mythic for the purpose of mythic crap that automatically kills normal people.I'm game.
From my experience, I'd say that gestalt will be up to it if you have people who are buidling for synergy rather than diversity. Gestalt can go either way. You'll need to pick people with that inclination. Also you'll need to grant the mythic companion feat so people are counted as mythic without having the explicit abilities. Otherwise there are sharp penalties being normal against a lot of mythic abilities.
I ran a module with gestalt vs. mythic and I didn't do enough to pump up my mythic conversions (the module was not mythic) so they steamrolled the critters.
You will probably need to pump up WotR given the quality of twinks around here.
Oops, I used the wrong alias. :)
@Gm Sam: I can't link it as I have the pdf and it's not on the d20pfsrd. I could email you or send it via Pm. If not, I could play something else if that be your wish.
Ok, trying to nail down a character concept that can mesh well with what we've got here thus far.
It looks like we've (understandably) got a lot of divine coverage. Is there such a thing as too many divine casters in WotR? Maybe a rogue would be useful.. maybe picking up occultist for the other side.
'
Eldric Lightbringer - Sacred Fist Warpriest/Wild Hunter Ranger
The Chess - Bloodrager / Kineticist
Gramork - Warpriest / ?
Ash.. - Spirit Guide Oracle / Paladin
Ouachitonian - Tanglebriar Demonslayer Ranger / ?
Brentol Snow - Gunslinger / Wizard
Hmm, seems to be sufficient paladin coverage, so maybe I'll do something else. Since we're starting at 1st, he'll just be a fighter to start. Then maybe I'll add brawler, swashbuckler or barbarian. I'll have to play with builds. I have a character with appropriate background who's tried to get through WotR before a few times. Dennis the tainted.
For those that are curious,Angelic Paragon
Also would this be possible,Dragon class
It could be a silver or gold dragon.
@Gm Sam: I can't link it as I have the pdf and it's not on the d20pfsrd. I could email you or send it via Pm. If not, I could play something else if that be your wish.
Okay, I changed my privacy settings so you can send me PMs.