Flaxseed GM lounge (Inactive)

Game Master Redelia

Here is where we can talk about anything. We'll make arrangements for our new games here and ask general questions about GMing.

Thanks for setting this up, Redelia.

One thing: the phrasing of the 'best' GMs feels weird to me. I'm experienced and fairly smooth, but I would hesitate to apply that label to myself. I don't know what to replace it with, though.

PbP veterans? Fun GMs? Insane GMs?

Hmm

Yeah, I hesitated about that, but in the moment couldn't find something better. At least it's someplace I can edit after an hour.

Popping in to show my support and help any way I can, as well as maybe pick up a few new tricks myself!

I quite agree with Gm Hmm... that threw me off a bit as well!

Discussion question, for those who want to talk a bit:
What do you think should be in a GM's profile? botting policy? posting expectations? brief biography? amount or length of experience?

Definitely flattered to be invited, but as my best GM advice is 'steal liberally', I'm planning on learning and stealing as much as I can!

Also popping in to show my support and/or offer help as a test player, GM, cheerleader, or some combination of the three :)

Discussion question, for those who want to talk a bit:

What do you think should be in a GM's profile? botting policy? posting expectations? brief biography? amount or length of experience?

I'm still working on my profile, but I'm currently concentrating on including information on how I plan to run my games, and links to help new players get started. It will be very interesting to hear what other GMs have in their profiles, or what they feel should be included.

This was something I struggled with.

For most of my GM career, my GM profile was BLANK.

Finally, I decided to put something there. I think what I have now works for me, both as GM and VL.

Hmm

Popping in to offer assistance if needed!

I'm still pretty new and could use some pointers. I would love to get in on a training session like was discussed in the other thread but can't play True Dragons for that.

I think some kind of 3rd-party commentary on an ongoing game to discuss why a GM made the decisions he/she did etc would be extremely useful.

Discussion question, for those who want to talk a bit: What do you think should be in a GM's profile? botting policy? posting expectations? brief biography? amount or length of experience?

I like to have a few points about me and what I expect from my players and they are asked to read my profile before signing up for any of my games so that they can't say they didn't know.

Granted, I dint have all of these, but like is said above, I feel that what I have works and I am frequently going in and adjusting parts.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Definitely flattered to be invited, but as my best GM advice is 'steal liberally', I'm planning on learning and stealing as much as I can!

I would have to say that's about 60% of my style.. stuff I've stolen. 20 % is stuff I've seen that I'm like "nope. Not gonna do it that way". And I'd say another 20% is actively seeking feedback from my players and trying to incorporate that into things as well.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Always wanting to learn, and get better. Redelia thank you so much for setting this up.

I would have to say that's about 60% of my style.. stuff I've stolen. 20 % is stuff I've seen that I'm like "nope. Not gonna do it that way". And I'd say another 20% is actively seeking feedback from my players and trying to incorporate that into things as well.

-Posted with Wayfinder

I totally agree! I have a theory that when we GM, we mainly do it because we want to run the games we'd want to play in. So we begin with a list of things we didn't like when someone else ran a game or things we've seen that aren't quite the way we like them.

To add on to the "stealing stuff" topic. When I GM, I frequently use the search function on the messageboards to find other games that have been run of the same scenario. Sometimes I just use it to make copy pasting easier and you don't have to delete all those annoying returns at the end of the line when copying from the scenario. Other times, I look through the games to see how other GMs handle a particular part of the scenario if I'm unsure how it works, or how to best translate it to PbP.

Which leads me to another things that's good to mention. Give up on any notion that you will be able to run scenarios just as they are written. Because of the PbP format, some mechanics just don't work well and need to be altered for the medium.

I think we all change how initiative works a little in play by post. Most GMs seem to have companion creatures not have their own initiative. The game changes when DCs for checks are posted where you can see them before rolling, because it can the decision on whether to take 10. In all these cases, I think the game still works just fine.

The one place where I think the rules really need to be changed for play by post to work is starship combat. I've seen some people posting how they divide up a round. I've found that I do the round in two phases instead of three. The first is science/engineering/captain/pilot's roll. The second is pilot moving and gunnery.

I know I sometimes have to change scenarios a bit for play by post, but I always feel anxiety when I do, because I'm not sure how much is allowed. This is actually one place where I watch carefully what others do, if I'm able to read the text after the game.

The starship combat is exactly why I haven't offered to GM a SFS game yet. I want to play in a few first, to see how other GMs handle ship combat. I just couldn't wrap my head around a way to make it efficient enough for a PbP game so that it doesn't drag the combat out for weeks.

I should perhaps explain a little more what inspired this campaign setup for GM learning.

When I was in graduate school, the university I was at had a program for teaching assistants and new professors who wanted to improve their teaching. I think it was called something like the Institute for Teaching Excellence. They had a meeting once a month with a workshop on a topic, but there was also just a lot of time talking to others who had the same passion to learn to teach well. I think I learned more from the casual conversations than I did from the 'curriculum.'

I see GMing as a lot like teaching. And I see it as a skill that can be learned and improved on. It's learned best in a community of others who also want to be the best GM they can be, and are willing to spend time working on improving. This campaign is meant to be both a launching pad for teaching games and also a place where we support each other in our learning.

GM Redelia's Institute for Mastering your Game as a Game Master =)

I like it.

On topic, I had not thought of searching the forums to find different implementations of the same scenario, that'd be good for PFS, maybe not so much (right now) for SFS.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Seconding GM Turmoil on peeking at other people's games when running a scenario because it's super handy to see how other GMs handled a section or interepeted something!

Maybe it would be good to collect a list of good examples of pbp games, especially common scenarios like the evergreens. That way, prospective GMs have something specific to study.

Maybe it would be good to collect a list of good examples of pbp games, especially common scenarios like the evergreens. That way, prospective GMs have something specific to study.

Ooohhh, that could be very useful and enlightening!

That reminds me, not everyone may know about the shared prep site! I can't tell you how many times I've used this site to make my GMing a lot easier. It certainly gets more use for the older scenarios, as all the new stuff includes full stat blocks now, but it's always worth checking out before you start a game.

GM Prep!

Hope no one minds, but I've become a lurker...

GM Turmoil, I had no idea that site existed! Stealing the link and thanks for sharing.

Edit: Ref stealing stuff...the first thing I do when I'm going to run a scenario is google the forums to see if there are any maps to steal. Saves me on prep time. :-P

Of course no one minds, RePete. Anyone who shares the group's goals of being a better GM or helping others become a better GM is welcome here.

Maybe it would be good to collect a list of good examples of pbp games, especially common scenarios like the evergreens. That way, prospective GMs have something specific to study.

I like this idea. Might even suggest that the campaign tab be the place for some of the above information be posted.

Such as the link to PFSprep and other sites and useful things.

Maybe, if you think it is plausible, making a link/Google Drive folder to scenario slide decks so those who tend to borrow others slide decks can have easy access.

I like the idea of GM prep being linked in here, but I think we may want to consider a google file/folder for links to other games. That could get to be an incredibly long list of URL's.

Another concern I have about links to other threads is that a lot of times, links break or GM's clear out/reuse/et al. their files. I think it may be prohibitively work intensive to continuously monitor all these links to make sure the thread/maps/links etc are active and in good order.

As for searching the forums for other games, I do this frequently for several reasons.. Maybe I am not clear on what needs represented, or I am at a loss as to how a mechanic works.. it is great to see other how other GM's have dealt with the problems.

So there's something I've run into lately with a GM, and I'm not trying to call anyone out, but instead I think it could be a good teaching opportunity. As a player, one of the most frustrating things I see from a GM is when they don't know how to control the pacing. Now when I say pacing, I don't mean a GM has to be online 24/7 and constantly posting game updates. What I mean, is that the GM knows how to push the game along so it doesn't get boring for the players. I feel this is something that's especially important in the PbP format.

I was recently asked to jump in a game that needed another player, because someone dropped out, and another player or two was pretty inactive. After a couple days in the game, I quickly realized that it wasn't necessarily the players fault that they weren't posting much, but that the GM wasn't pushing the game at all.

Here's an example I'm making up about a typical dungeon crawl, keeping it simple and detail free.

Game # 1
GM: You approach the dungeon entrance which has a large metal door
Player: I check out the doorway for traps
GM: You don't detect any traps.
Player: I open the door
GM: It's pitch black inside
Player: I cast dancing lights into the room
GM: *blah blah room description* give me Perception checks
Players: *all roll their checks, takes maybe a day or two for everyone to post it*
GM: You see a friendly goblin hiding in the corner
*conversation happens, and it's clear that you're done chatting and ready to move on, the players are waiting on the GM and the GM is waiting on the players to explicitly say let's check the next room.

Game #2
GM: You approach the dungeon entrance which has a large metal door (you've already established with the party that the rogue always checks the door for traps first), Mr Rogue checks to make sure it's not trapped and the party find a pitch dark room which they easily light up (Come one, every party has a way to make light). *blah blah room description* and a spoiler for a Perception check.
Players: Second player makes the check and tells the others about the friendly goblin.
*conversation happens, and it's clear that you're done chatting and ready to move on, GM pushes the party on to the next room.

The first method may take more than a week to explore a single room, depending on the posting rate. The second method may only take a day or two. If it were a F2F game, the first example wouldn't be a problem, but because of the medium, the way you GM has to change a bit.

It's up to the GM to set the pace of the game and make sure it doesn't get bogged down. You have to be able to have a feel for the game and your players. It's OK for you to gloss over simple and obvious things for the sake of keeping it moving. I feel that it's also important to establish a standard marching order as they explore, and if any players will always do something, such as a rogue checking for traps at doors. And if the game does seem to grind to a halt, make it clear to the players what you're waiting on, sometimes it might not be obvious to them. The GM has all the knowledge because they have the scenario sitting there in front of them so what may seem obvious to you, may not be to the players.

Thank you for that Turmoil! I'm currently GMing a sort of dungeon crawly scenario at the moment, and I was quite conscious of some of these issues going in. However, I may have gone too far in the opposite direction and pushed too early. I guess getting that balance right probably comes down to experience, but are there any tips out there for knowing when to push and when to hold?

The tip about door checking is really nice. I like the idea of starting a discussion on door opening procedure (if anyone is checking for traps, listening for movement, etc.) to go along with the usual marching order stuff. That's definitely something to add to my GM kit for my next game :)

Seconding the suggestion of a SOP regarding doors and the like when inside a 'dungeon' or other dangerous area. I'm also a big fan of either auto-rolling certain checks for the PCs, like Perception, or providing a spoiler.

With the exception of a few specific things like looking for traps, I like to assume that most PCs have enough sense between them to do stuff like pull out light sources and the like and thus I'm usually happy to gloss over stuff like that. I understand why a lot of GMs subscribe to the 'if you don't say it, it didn't happen' mentality (and for a F2F game I'd agree with it) but in PbP I think some leeway has to be given to account for the slow pace.

I think it's one of those that you just have to get a feel for and it really depends on the players you have. If you have a table full of players that just want to smash everything in combat and don't care about the story, they probably would want to be pushed towards the next encounter a bit quicker, than say a party that wants to RP and chat a lot. And if you're unsure, ask the players how they feel about the pace!

In PbP, you have to be willing to handwave certain actions. The whole 'If you don't say it, it didn't happen' rule doesn't work so well when you're waiting for people to write out lengthy responses to posts. I find that making assumptions such as adventurers are going to check the door for traps, they're going to search everywhere they can, they're going to loot the dead, cast detect magic and identify anything they found. My rule of thumb is, unless it's dramatic or there's a chance of failure, just assume it happens and move on. It cuts literal days off a play by post game, and they're the parts that cause good players to slow down anyway.

In PbP, you have to be willing to handwave certain actions. The whole 'If you don't say it, it didn't happen' rule doesn't work so well when you're waiting for people to write out lengthy responses to posts. I find that making assumptions such as adventurers are going to check the door for traps, they're going to search everywhere they can, they're going to loot the dead, cast detect magic and identify anything they found. My rule of thumb is, unless it's dramatic or there's a chance of failure, just assume it happens and move on. It cuts literal days off a play by post game, and they're the parts that cause good players to slow down anyway.

This is something that I have been trying to emulate you in. You do very well with pushing the story at just the right point, and allowing the time consuming days long post cycle to be circumvented. I still have a long way to go, but you provide a good example.

GM Turmoil, I do not mean to leave you out of the praise.. I believe I may have played all of one or two games at your table, so I have little knowledge of your styles.

I do agree that this is something that must be discussed with each individual table. No blanket rule, indeed no rule at all, is going to satisfy everyone the same way every time. However, through a few posts in the discussion tab, a general consensus can be reached and may allow you to occasionally throw a bone to include those that were against whatever decision you ended up with. However, the most important thing here is that it also has to be fun for YOU as the story teller. Don't allow chronicle harvesters to force you to neglect the story that you are trying to tell.

Out of curiosity, how many of you still have your players post their chronicle information in the discussion tab?

I've found using google forms makes it easier on me. Link to Example Once they fill it out, I can convert to a spreadsheet for easy use.

I've only ran one PbP game so far, but I asked for the chronicle info on Discussion. will look into making a form that works for my process =)

Thanks RePete

I'm also thinking about making a survey to ask how I've done as a GM. It's hard to tell sometimes. You can't read facial expressions over PbP.

I'm also thinking about making a survey to ask how I've done as a GM. It's hard to tell sometimes. You can't read facial expressions over PbP.

That's an interesting idea. Unfortunately, I think you have to be prepared for sometimes brutal feedback, as subtlety and nuance can be lost in text, too. But it never hurts to do a post-mortem on games you run, asking what they liked, what they didn't like and what they suggest you try differently.

I've tried to gather feedback after a game, including inviting players to PM me, but all I've ever gotten is rather bland 'good game, was fun' kind of comments. I don't know if I've done such a terrible job that they think I'm hopeless, or well enough that they can't think of anything they want me to improve.

My results have been similar to Redelia's; I've tried to encourage people to offer feedback either via Discussion or privately through PM. I usually get the most detailed feedback from people who already know me a little from other games where I've been a player.

Giving constructive feedback is a skill, and requires a particular personality. You will find a very low percentage of people have the skill and are willing to do it. It's a risk; even when requested, critical feedback is often received poorly, so most people don't even want to try.

I wouldn't let it bother you. If you're the kind of GM who is requesting feedback, you're probably doing a good job. Wanting that feedback shows that you want to improve, and that puts you over the hump already.

Guys, what are the rules about adding circumstance bonuses to checks that aren't listed in an adventure? Are we allowed to do this? By how much, or in what circumstances? (in this case, diplomacy to gather information)

I'd say the usual +2 rule would be fine. You should always reward innovation and imagination.

Is there a policy on replacing a player very early on? I had a player in my MotFF gameday game who was active in the pregame discussion, last post 10/3, but not a single post since we actually started. We've done two combats so far. I still have a legal table without the character.

I think the same 7 day no call/no show rule that was just established for online GM's is fair for PFS players in the online multiverse as well. Unless they return with a valid story, I would excuse them after that amount of time has passed, and issue no chronicle.

Do I replace the player, or just continue with a table of 5?

If it's still early, and you can flag down another player, I might give it a shot to re-recruit, but since most scenarios are made for 4 (older seasons) or scalable to smaller groups (newer seasons) you are well within rights to continue as long as you have a legal table.

Depends on your patience to find someone new, and the will of the group. I find smaller tables a bit easier to run in the PbP environment.

There seems to be no shortage of volunteers for most games.

Why not send a note to the new guy, Knight of Rust, and see if he’d like to join?

Hmm

I just realized that I don't like to GM Master of the Fallen Fortress.