Go ahead and call this when you think things have gotten too out of hand, because this could easily turn into everyone chasing me around for a while as I go about breaking windows.
If I'm asked for something like this again, I'll try not to say something liable to consume massive amounts of time and utterly derail everything.
...maybe we should set some ground rules on how to handle this when the situation comes up again? That seems like a good idea.
Thinking about how this might develop, I find the idea of somehow convincing at least one of the others to go about breaking windows with me funny.
That, and passing by a puddle or a bottle of wine or something and having it yell at me asking what on earth I'm doing.
Yeah, I was thinking this would probably end up as a zoomed-out defy danger or similar before it went on too long. My rough guess is you'd be looking at close to 80 windows, which... Yeah, not going to play those out individually :p
As a heads up, updates may be intermittent for the next week or two.
I'm broadly interpreting my Vow to prohibit deceitful stealthy actions.
Sorry for the delay. Update hopefully coming tomorrow.
Good luck with finals! (I assume)
Sorry, it was my birthday this weekend, and I was distracted.
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Burke waits until he catches Adir's eye and then nods.
What an awesome ability and I love your subtlety in employing it. I feel like our group has been both fun and cool so far.
Quick note - I apologize that updates have been quite so few and far between. I do hope to improve on the current pace after the next week or so. Pesky day jobs.
I'm now with Retzack - I'm running out of ideas to pursue. We've gathered clues, but how to put them together is beyond me.
Sbodd - please check your PM.
Thanks for the feedback, it's appreciated. Further discussion coming soon, but - are the rest of you feeling similarly?
My thoughts(please correct any false statements):
The mystery here seemed to be the death of Nilasa, the Eladrin woman. But, I think it's actually about the egg.
The guards and staff were dosed with fey pepper to dull senses and/or provide a distraction, (possibly by Nilasa?).
LeBrix is lying about stuff, and is fearful.
There are 2 eggs, the fake and the real. The fake is on the entry table, the real was displayed upstairs. The real egg's whereabouts are unknown.
Theory: LeBrix is part of the theft of the egg. Nilasa was possibly an accomplice who was betrayed, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was killed in the embassy and then thrown/teleported out the window(unsure on method) with the real egg. A third party, maybe the guard that was 'sent home', took the egg off Nilasa's body.
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I'm just bad at "investigate" games. Both RPG and those...those little app games where you have to click on things and then find items and then solve puzzles?
Yeah, I totes am teh SUX at those too. =)
(Mind you, if I was level 2 and had Mezmorize this might've ended half an hour after we started...so it's probably good that I'm not. ^_^)
P.S. Meta side-note, what are the odds that we can get Kappa to break in to that office?
It can be a nice change of pace, but it is largely dependent on the PCs asking the right questions and then putting the information together correctly. PbP exacerbates the challenge because the information is doled out over a long period of real time. But it has been fun so far just being our guys.
P.S. Meta side-note, what are the odds that we can get Kappa to break in to that office?
Depends. I'm going to need opportunity, tools if I can't just jam a finger in and manually manipulate it, probably a way to ensure I don't get pinned down as a window-breaking vent-crawling intruder...
That said, if he thought he had good odds of getting away with it, he'd definitely be willing.
I'm more or less on the same page as Adir. I think LeBrix and the fleeing accomplice are the two best leads we have.
I don't recall enough about the information that we have on her wounds to determine if the deceased was a part of this ... or a patsy.
Also ... I may or may not have intentionally removed the two characters who would be against breaking into the consular's office. Just a coincidence I assure you.
I too am bad at "investgation" style RP. But, that said, I thought I'd collect together everything about Nilasa that's been revealed :
"Things seemed... Normal, right up until the gunshots. Then, uh, she jumped out the window...Landed on the, um, fence." A statement made by a guard that Burke knows to be true.
Note that this contradicts the statement made by Sbodd below about the order of events!
"Looked for a, um, moment like she was just running, hm, on air before she just...fell." A statement made by a guard that Burke knows to be true.
Sbodd : there's only one scent on the metal-and-stone [egg], and it smells like the two legs who's talking to you [LeBrix].
Sbodd : she has a parole slip, from the Parity Lake police, and a small empty bottle, each in a pocket of her dress.
Sbodd : if you had to guess, you'd say the wound on her face came first, then the glass, then the fence, then the gunshots.
Sbodd : the angle on the gunshots is wrong - if she were standing, the shots would've come from below. Or if she were lying down, from above and behind her.
Sbodd : the wound on her face and the dark magic were both covered up with clerical magic.
========================================================================
Adir, any thoughts on the continual presence of necromantic magic on Nilasa's body, and in/around the embassy?
Also, what is/was in the consular's office worth trying to steal? And how does that connect with the apparent break-in to steal the egg?
Also also, don't forget that the lock on the case with the egg in it wasn't picked!
<something clicks>
It *could* be that the real prize was in the consular's office, which Nilasa had in the bag that the stranger ran away with. Since Nilasa ended up dead (who knows how or why), the consular knew that there would be an investigation, and so presented the egg as the target of the theft, not knowing that it was a fake!
Or, perhaps the consular knows nothing of this, it's LeBrix that provided the egg as an explanation, even to her.
Can Retzack tell what was in the bottle found on the body, with his keen sense of taste?
Finally, perhaps the parole slip, and Nilasa's boyfriend Braden, are worth following up? Once we're sure there's nothing more we can do at the embassy...
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The order of the wounds gives us a decent picture of what sort of happened and how she died.
She was hit, or somehow affected, by Dark Magic(!). Possibly a mage just tossed a dark magic missile or something at her. This caused her to fall out of the window, and land on the fence posts (and this may have been the wound that killed her). Then the guard shot her, to make it look like she was shot before falling.
Then the Dark Magic was covered up.
The source of the Dark Magic is a mystery, since we have a truthful statement that there aren't mages around.
So we don't know the source of the dark magic, or what she was doing there in the first place. I assume she was trying to steal the egg, and that that thing is in her office.
I'll take a shot at the bottle, but I can't guarantee anything.
The parole slip is a mystery.
Nice job, Tethys, seriously. It always helps to have a list like that.
I forgot about the consular's office part. I like the egg being a decoy reason theory.
Necromancy thought: Any chance that she's not actually dead? I wouldn't think so, but....
Thanks again for the feedback.
Gotta be honest, I've been having some difficulty on my side of the metaphorical DM screen; partially I suspect it's due to some lingering Pathfinder habits. I'm working on that :p
So, if "stymied" is the group consensus, I can try to make things a little more direct/"traditional" adventure fare.
Tethys (and others), that was a pretty good summary. I'll only note that the apparent contradiction has a consistent explanation, and will neither confirm nor deny the speculative parts of your summary.
IC update later today!
While we as players may be flailing, our characters are badass detectives. Could we split lore to uncover connections we are missing? I think it might be a cool clue mechanic with a chance of failure.
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It's so obvious when you know the solution. ;)
There's something that I want Tethys to do, but it would require Burke's presence to tell if the consular is telling the truth. So much for splitting up the party...
Tethys, the trigger for DR is "when you closely study a situation or person." It seems perfectly plausible to me to use that as a way to determine actual truth behind someone's words. (My thinking is that'd require an extended conversation that wouldn't necessarily be all ic; describe what topics you're trying to get info about, and the approach you're taking; on a hit, your questions would apply to that person's knowledge of your subject. Open to discussion.) Burke just gets to do that easier thanks to his class moves.
Burke, that kind of makes sense - I go back and forth on whether straight Spout Lore makes sense, though. I'm open to arguments either way. A little brainstorming for possible alternatives - let me know what you think of these.
Squints
When you have RHC researchers examine a piece of gathered evidence, it takes some time but you may treat this as either a 10+ on Spout Lore or Discern Realities related to that evidence.
This one I'm definitely not convinced is solid yet - thoughts? Improvements?
Pushpins and String
When you spend time looking for connections between at least two things you've learned, state what facts you're trying to connect and roll...
...+1 if you're drawing on the RHC's resources
...+1 if you have time or significant external resources to devote
...+1 if you've got 3 or more facts, and you're sure they're connected
On a hit, the DM will tell you honestly how they're connected, or if you're barking up the wrong tree. On a 10+, you gain a deeper understanding; ask one question from the Discern Realities list about the answer, and take +1 forward when acting on that reply. If there was no connection, instead on a 10+ the DM will tell you how you could learn more about one of your pieces of evidence.
(I'm also thinking about something like the Templar's interrogation move for the results here - on a hit, the DM will give you three possible conclusions, one of which may be false; on a 10+, the DM will tell you one that is definitely true.)
Sorry in my head splitting the party was helpful because it allowed for a break-in of the consular's office. If there won't be a break-in, then I will have the carriage swing by the consular's office to pick everyone up.
Sbodd - how about, when asking a series of questions, the asker rolls to Discern Realities and can ask "What here is not what it appears to be?" for as many times as they can (based on their roll), to determine whether or not the answers are true? If the asker asks more questions than they get hits on their DR, they pick the question(s) they get a "true/lie" response to.
I really like the "Squints" move!
Regarding "Pushpins and String", what stat is it based off of (or is it only based off of the bonuses listed)? If the asker *thinks* they have 3 or more connected facts, but the DM knows they aren't, what does that do? And personally, I don't like the Templar's interrogation results - I'd much rather *know* whether they're connected or not, and how.
But, I'd rather the move be phrased in terms of *conclusions* we can draw about the facts/clues we're considering - or is that what you meant by "connected"?
Also, I'm not sure the DR list of questions would be very helpful on a 10+ in terms of figuring out clues.
...Oh! What if, on a 10+, you give us a *conclusion* in addition to a connection (if they're different things)?
Burke - well, only Retzack had no reservations about breaking in. Tethys was against it, unless Kappa could squeeze under the door, and he's nowhere to be found (so far). But, having just re-read the conversation with the Consular, many of the questions I was about to ask have already been answered...
ALL - the Consular said "I thought we should merely stonewall you until we recovered our documents, but I allowed myself to be persuaded otherwise; clearly, that was a mistake." Did she just admit to trying to pass off the egg as the reason for the break-in? If so, then the only things left to consider are the manner of Nilasa's death (whether is was legal or murder), and retrieving whatever was stolen out of the Consular's office (which Burke and Adir have covered).
Retzack, glad the name made sense :-)
For DR truth telling, sure, that works. Probably limited to one roll per conversation, though.
Squints is now officially a basic move. You do have to head to HQ (or at least deliver the evidence there) to trigger it.
For Pushpins, I was thinking no stat, just the listed bonuses; to my mind, it's kind of a group/montage move (like Carouse), so something not tied to one character seemed to fit better. I'm open to alternate/additional ideas for how to handle the bonus to that.
As far as "those facts aren't really connected" - I'd be inclined to say:
If the party had some other bit of info that *was* connected, that will be included in the answer; roll stands.
Otherwise, if they weren't connected but could have been, now they are; roll stands.
Otherwise, the DM alters the roll result accordingly.
I think "connections" and "conclusions" probably mean close to the same thing.
My thinking for the 10+ was something like
7-9: "You do some math, and for Bob to get from A to B when he said would require magical transport. One of your underworld contacts admits to providing Bob a teleport spell."
10+: as above. Q: "what isn't as it seems?" A: "The spell he gave Bob was multi-use! He *also* did the thing at location C!" Or Q: "Who's really in control?" A: "Your contact said Bob paid using a marker from the Ebon Council, they must have hired him!"
Basically, the 10+ is free extra info, and the DR list seemed like a decent way to make it player driven. If that seems off, I'm open to other thoughts.
I really like the idea since nobody quite knowing what to do can bog down PbP so much.
We may want to consider migrating to a different platform.
I'm happy with using DR for truth-telling, Squints, and Pushpins-and-String within the Dungeon World system.
Burke - I'm inclined to give them a few more days. Thoughts on where to migrate to if we do? (Anyone else have opinions on the topic?)
Tethys - alright, we'll roll with those.
Tavern Keeper seems to be consensus in the Gauntlet gaming community. I haven't ever tried it.
So Tethys, Retzack, and Kappa still have stuff to do at the embassy with these new moves right? If not, maybe we should retcon to have the whole party together with me and Adir.
Tethys is still working on investigating at the embassy...
Burke, I'm confused, having looking up Tavern Keeper - when you talked about moving to a new platform, were you talking about using a different gaming system (due to the investigation aspects), or a different PbP forum (due to Paizo's yo-yo-ness lately)? I was assuming the former...
I'm only talking about the forum. Any forum with a dice roller should work for a 2d6+MOD system like PbtA.
Under "Stun Damage", I read "A PC who takes stun damage is defying danger to do anything at all, the danger being “you’re stunned.”" Am I interpreting that wrong? Sorry, I'm still relatively new to DW.
Ahh, okay. Pesky overloading of terms - I'd been thinking of the Int debility, I'd forgotten there was a separate weapon tag as well. We'll go ahead as is, and I'll remember to distinguish those two in the future.
Update coming tomorrow!
To satisfy my curiosity, how did you expect me to play it? Is it one of those "-1 going forward" type things?
Yeah, that's exactly what it is - the "-1 ongoing to a stat" debilities all have names: weak(str), shaky(Dex), sick(Con), stunned (Int), Confused (Wis), Scarred (Cha). They're talked about here in the manual .
Burke, you around?
Sorry yes! Will post shortly sorry.
Sorry, weekend got away from me. Update tomorrow!
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For myself, I tend to actually not like it when I just roll a 10+, because then it means that that round is kinda boring. "Oh. Look. I did thing."
So, I've been pondering on some way for DW to reflect the thing thato ther systems have where they have some mechanic for getting more than one action a round.
I think I've devised an okay idea, and I'd like to kick it around more.
One could state that if you roll a 10+, you've done it SO well that nothing bad happens, yeah? Hence, why not then allow another move after that? But there could even be a caveat: It can't be the same move that just did. Got a 10+ H&S? Sweet, now you have time to DR. Got a 10+ Cast Spell? Cool, you did it so flawlessly that you can Spout some Lore. Or your Powerful wizard can now H&S (for all the good it will do you. =)
It just seems like a lot of other systems at least give the option. Even in PFS, with a large enough Base to Hit, you can get more than one melee swing eventually. Or in Savage Worlds there's the Multiple Action mechanics (but the Multiple Action Penalty wouldn't apply because DW has different numbers, and needing a 10+ on the first move is a big enough restriction).
What do you think?
That is basically how I play and run. Keep going until GM needs to intervene.
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So my basic thoughts:
You can do as much in one post as you reasonably feel like you can predict the result of. Generally, that means rolling 10+ on the first move, or a 7-9 that has an explicit, player controlled consequence.
And of course, if I feel like you're doing too much, I'll let you know.
So, as a few examples...
6- on anything? Stop there :p
Roll a 10+ on a Spout Lore? Sure, describe your next action if it won't depend on what the Lore you get is.
Cast a Spell (7-9) then H&S: probably fine, as long as you don't pick the "draw unwanted attention" 7-9.
Multiple H&S: fine, as long as you get a 10+
Roll a 7-9 on H&S: that explicitly calls for a GM move in response, so stop there.
Defy Danger: on a 10+, you can usually proceed.
As a special case, my "house rule" for Defy Danger is that on a 7-9, you may narrate your own consequence and keep going. If you impress me with your deviousness or masochism, I'll tell you to mark XP.
I could not improve on Sbodd's post. That is exactly how I play and run PbtA PbP.