DM Delmoth's Strange Aeons: Table 1

Game Master Delmoth

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Male Human(Varisian) Witch 8 Hp 66/66 AC 20 Initiative +12 Fort +7/9 Ref +7/9, Will +8/10 Perception +13/15 ;Spells Active: Mage Armor, heroism, see invisible,

Welcome to the land of the insane, Kat!


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

Welcome aboard!


Monk 7 | AC 23 T 23 FF 18 | HP 67/67 | F +8 R +11 W +8 | Init +5 | Perc +13 | CMB +13, +15 to trip, +17 to trip with kama | CMD 27, 29 vs trip

Welcome!


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

Welcome to the Mad Tea Party! :)


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

So does being grappled affect the concentration check to wake up from the dream? How about ongoing damage?


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

It's a purely mental action to try to wake up so grappling shouldn't affect your ability to do so. Considering you can voluntarily take damage while making the concentration check to make it easier to wake I don't think damage affects your ability to do so either.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. It seems like it could be something we need to do periodically!


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

Swallow Whole normally requires that the thing begin its turn grappling an opponent. So it gives a round of actions to break them free before the swallow happens. Mara would have line of effect to Theo and could use Heaven's Leap.

This creature might be different.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

It's my understanding that fast swallow waives that requirement.

So it can do it in 1 round with an attack and two free grapple checks.

Liberating Command can work so it may be the best move.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

Oh, I had not heard of such an ability. Well that's nasty.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

I realize that I forgot to attune Mara's phylactery of the shepherd to evaluate the health of Dervak, Rowan and Theo. Mind you, I'm not sure if being the fact that Theo has been swallowed would block her from healing him with her Healing Hex.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

I'm getting the feeling that Rowan would really benefit from Pummeling Style.


Female
Extracts Per Day Remaining:
3-2/3, 2-3/5, 1-4/6
Spells Active:
Antiplague, Barkskin, Haste, Shield, Bloodhound, Heightened Awareness, Perceive Cues
AC 25 T 13(17 vs incorp) FF 23| Current HP 48/67| F +6 R +10(trap sense +2) W +7(see profile for conditional modifier)| Init +1| Perc +21 (+25 vs traps, trap spotter, smog sight)

I couldn't recommend Pummeling Style more tbh. Even without Pummeling Charge, it's great!


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I might suggest Barroom Brawler, or a dip into Brawler or Varisian Freestyle Fighter. Martial Flexibility is great for dealing with these "trick" foes.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Kat got your gear sorted. Maybe one day I'll add the rest of the party's starting gear and money.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

Dervak could pursue it down the hall, but that means risking an AOO. As I understand it, Fighting Defensively wouldn't apply on his movement down the hall. It doesn't kick in until you take the standard or full-round action.

So I was going to have Dervak awaken himself to escape, but then I realized that Rowan needs a natural 20 to escape the Dreamlands. Fortune Hex doesn't help on Concentration checks. Rowan has a +5 and it is DC 25. He doesn't have the HP to risk a lot of damage to his physical body to lower the DC.

Should Dervak stay and guard Rowan until Rowan rolls that 20 (or maybe Rowan takes 2d6 damage each time to make it DC 24, doubling his odds of success)?

Or can we awaken dreamers in the real world?


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

I think guarding Rowan until he makes the check is the best plan. Mara could heal Rowan after he makes one or two attempts accepting 2d6 damage (her Healing Hex restores 2d8+7 hp).


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I think the damage is done to his physical body back in the waking world. So Mara could wake up first, then be there by his body to heal him. While Dervak remains in the Dreamlands to defend Rowan.

Compared to Rowan, Dervak has a better Concentration check and can accept a lot more damage to lower the DC.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Yep damage is done to physical body. Keep in mind that you've all taken backlash damage too. Alternatively Rowan could die and just accept the mental trauma associated with it.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

So how does health and healing work exactly during Dreamlands excursions, and how does that interact with Mara's Phylactery of the Shepherd? Is it possible for her to know how much damage people have when she's in the Dreamlands? What happens when she heals someone in the Dreamlands?


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Physical damage including ability damage only travels one way from material plane to Dreamlands. So damage you take in Dreamlands doesn't come with you unless its mental ability score damage. It should work similarly for healing done in the dreamlands. That is your dreamself heals but when you return if it was from a pre-existing condition your physical self is still damaged.

Example you took 9 damage from the ritual backlash. This is damage done on material plane and so it will follow you into the Dreamlands. Theo then taps everyone with his CLW wand until everyone is healed. Rowan then take 30 damage from a fight and rolls a crit to wake up. His physical body will still have 9 damage from the backlash but nothing from the fight.

It's also important to note that limited uses that are used on the dreamlands are not expended in the material plane. So Rowan would have the same amount of ki that he did when he finished the ritual. And the CLW charges in the above example are not spent.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

As far as the status effect. I forget if it crosses planar boundaries. If it does then you'd get both sets of info. Otherwise Mara would only get information for the plane she's conscious in.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

@DM, do you have any experience with applying PFS credit to APs? Apparently, how much PF1 content a person plays will determine how many scenario replays they get once PF2 is released, so I'd like to get more sessions reported if I could. And I do have some languishing PFS PCs that could use the credits (for Part 1 and Part 2). If it is too much trouble then never mind.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Lol. Its been a long time since I've done the PFS thing and I've never done it for APs. If I have time tonight I'll look into it.

If anyone else wants credit let me know.


Male Human(Varisian) Witch 8 Hp 66/66 AC 20 Initiative +12 Fort +7/9 Ref +7/9, Will +8/10 Perception +13/15 ;Spells Active: Mage Armor, heroism, see invisible,

We are a season behind with our weekly PFS group. We won't even start Season 10 until August. We are running Eyes of the Ten now. So, we will not be looking at switching editions until after.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I'm personally not looking to switch, and I think PbP will have a lot of PF1 for years to come.


Female
Extracts Per Day Remaining:
3-2/3, 2-3/5, 1-4/6
Spells Active:
Antiplague, Barkskin, Haste, Shield, Bloodhound, Heightened Awareness, Perceive Cues
AC 25 T 13(17 vs incorp) FF 23| Current HP 48/67| F +6 R +10(trap sense +2) W +7(see profile for conditional modifier)| Init +1| Perc +21 (+25 vs traps, trap spotter, smog sight)

I will also be interested in AP credit! I plan on doing both PF2 and PF1 myself


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

This AP will be my last game in PF1, which at this rate will last 2 more years maybe 3?

I haven't played IRL for quite a while and lot of that has to do with rules bloat. It's easier to manage in PbP though.

What broke me IRL was running Wrath of the Righteous. I'm still sad I didn't finish it but I just couldn't hack the amount of prep time I needed to run the encounters appropriately. And then a lot of time that didn't matter because mythic characters will frequently blast through stuff without breaking a sweat.


Male Human(Varisian) Witch 8 Hp 66/66 AC 20 Initiative +12 Fort +7/9 Ref +7/9, Will +8/10 Perception +13/15 ;Spells Active: Mage Armor, heroism, see invisible,

We ran into that problem playing RotRL. By 10th, our DM began adding advanxed templates to monaters; sometimes stacking them just to challenge us...lol.
They really need to fix the higher levels.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Those are my go to tactics. Eventually I got to the point of just everything has double HP and all bosses roll auto 20s for init. One of my players was doing something like 200+ damage on on hit. That was even after a nerf pass through.

There were still a couple of encounters that were challenging. One monster was always immune to the first hit each turn. It just so happened that slugger hit it with a 200+ damage and then they panicked when it didn't do anything. They ran. They could have beat it but they couldn't think of a follow up.

Sorry for getting side tracked.

I think we're waiting to see if Rowan wants to wake up?


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

Ok I feel sufficiently confident that I can fill out a chronicle sheet for book 1 and 2, which is all we've completed so far. Anyone who wants credit please let me know the society # your want me to report it to and if you're slow or normal progression. I suppose a day job roll is in order as well.

I'll send a link to the chronicle sheets once I have those details.


Monk 7 | AC 23 T 23 FF 18 | HP 67/67 | F +8 R +11 W +8 | Init +5 | Perc +13 | CMB +13, +15 to trip, +17 to trip with kama | CMD 27, 29 vs trip

Should Rowan want to wake up? My fort save is a +6, but that is still complete garbage.

Also, next feat, should I survive, would be either pummeling style or barroom brawler. Not sure which would be better.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

Theo is back in the waking world (I hope), so the party is split right now. I think we all want to wake up so we can get the party back together.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

I can also introduce Kat once you're all back.

Also to wake it's a concentration check not Fort. Concentration for non-casters is level + cha mod or +5 in Rowan's case.


Monk 7 | AC 23 T 23 FF 18 | HP 67/67 | F +8 R +11 W +8 | Init +5 | Perc +13 | CMB +13, +15 to trip, +17 to trip with kama | CMD 27, 29 vs trip

Yup, Rowan is screwed. He would like to wake up.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I would like the chronicles applied to PFS #108731-9, Mohag the Wanderer.
Profession (Guide) Take 10: 10 + 5 = 15
Profession (Guide) Take 10: 10 + 5 = 15 10 gp on both.
Normal progression. Thank you.

As the other topic you raised, I have seen an AP fall apart at level 12 due to over-optimization. Even with arbitrary buffs to HP, the archer just killed everything in surprise round and then the first full round before they could act. It was so boring. I don't want to do that.

I don't build for rocket tag generally. I prefer to build for reasonable defense and offense, so my PC can last a few rounds and the enemy can get to try out a few of their different tricks. That's just more fun than one-shotting everything. That's why I rebuilt Dervak into a defensive bloodrager (Destined, Urban) rather than something like Abyssal Primalist with Eldritch Heritage (Orc).

I don't want Dervak to be so invincible that you have to boost enemies' attacks to hit him, because that would make his investment in defense worthless. But at the same time, I don't want him to be a huge drain on the party's resources for healing like a typical barbarian is. I am pretty happy with the enemy needing about a 14 to hit him (as was the case for the ooze). And with his offense, I'm pretty happy with him being able to take down an equal-CR foe in 2-3 rounds or a CR+3 foe in maybe 5. Clearly he is the main damage dealer, so I want him to have good enough defenses to weather the attacks he will draw. This was the first fight when his rebuild came into focus. He can have a very solid AC while still dishing out respectable but not OP damage.

I am happy to take guidance from the GM and the party on Dervak's future feats to stay in the optimal zone of "strong enough, but not too overpowered."

Critical Focus and Staggering Critical?

Defiant Luck and Inexplicable Luck (for Will saves)?

Riving Strike?

Bodyguard (with Gloves of Arcane Striking) and Stand Still?

Eldritch Heritage (Imperious)?

A teamwork feat?

His remaining bloodline feats are pretty poor, other than Weapon Focus. He's got all the good ones.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

My gripping about my WoTR players wasn't meant as a backhanded dig at Dervak's build. He's fine.

As you say I'll usually want to have an encounter last long enough for the monster to get their trick off.

I'll get that reported sometime tonight.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

Oh no, I didn't think it was a dig. I am just keenly aware from my own experience that optimization can go too far.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

I got ambitious and reported it already. Dervak you should have the links to chronicle sheets in a PM.

Apparently I was one session off from being a 2 star GM, lol.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

I agree with Dervak that rocket tag can take away from enjoyment of the game. We're 14th lvl in my Ironfang Invasion PBP, and I've had the experience of waking up in the morning and checking my games, only to find that, what was a pending encounter when I went to bed the previous evening, was now already over!

Our kineticist can kill many of the enemies in one round, and can one-shot a boss on a critical hit. Of course if he ever gets dominated —Will is his weak save, and we're going against evil Fey right now — we could easily have a TPK.


Male Human(Varisian) Witch 8 Hp 66/66 AC 20 Initiative +12 Fort +7/9 Ref +7/9, Will +8/10 Perception +13/15 ;Spells Active: Mage Armor, heroism, see invisible,

I agree with both of you. I do make solid characters; able to do what I advertise for them, but not too overpowering (I hope). I am a fan of combats lasting 4-5 rounds.
Theo does what Theo does. I feel that he contributes; which is the goal of any character (I hope!).

I lost a Star for some reason. I shouldn't be too far from 3....


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

I could have swore I was a 2 star at one point before, perhaps they restructured the system.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

Should Mara stay in the Dreamlands, and use her Fear spell before trying to wake up, or try to wake up now and heal Rowan's physical body?

She has +12 to concentration checks and needs to roll a 13 or better: a 40% chance each round.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I'd say give the Fear spell a shot. It's a high-payoff option.

Rowan might be exiting the Dreamlands the hard way.

Mara has the HP to accept a lot of damage to increase her chances of waking up.


M Human Destined Urban Bloodrager 8 | HP 76/76 | AC 23/T12/FF23/CMD26 | F+13/R+8/W+10 (+2 vs fear) | Mv 40' | Init +5 | Per +15| Rage 20/20 | Spells 3/1 (3/2) | Active: Barkskin, Heroism, See Invis

I'll have limited Internet connection for the first half of next week (Sun-Wed). Will try to check in daily if I can.


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

I'll bot you if it becomes an issue.


Monk 7 | AC 23 T 23 FF 18 | HP 67/67 | F +8 R +11 W +8 | Init +5 | Perc +13 | CMB +13, +15 to trip, +17 to trip with kama | CMD 27, 29 vs trip

Is there anything we can do to help Rowan with waking up, other than multiclassing into a divine casting class?


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Female
Extracts Per Day Remaining:
3-2/3, 2-3/5, 1-4/6
Spells Active:
Antiplague, Barkskin, Haste, Shield, Bloodhound, Heightened Awareness, Perceive Cues
AC 25 T 13(17 vs incorp) FF 23| Current HP 48/67| F +6 R +10(trap sense +2) W +7(see profile for conditional modifier)| Init +1| Perc +21 (+25 vs traps, trap spotter, smog sight)

Hi everyone! It’s Pride weekend here in SF so the wife and I will be extra busy so my posting will be limited to nonexistent until Sunday evening. Thanks for the understanding!


Planescape Map Treasure SA: Table 1: Map Treasure SA: Table A: Map Treasure

No worries!

@Rowan here is a thread discussing concentration checks, link, there are a number of items list that can potentially help. Note that some only give a bonus to concentration under certain circumstances.

Note that the rules specifically say taking 10 and 20 on concentration is not allowed. I'm ruling that for waking up you can take 20 but not 10.


Half-Orc Heavens Shaman 8 (Speaker for the Past) | HP: 73/73 temp: 10 Backlash: 10 AC: 21 T:13 F:19 | Saves: F:8 R:7 W:16 (17 vs aberrations) | Init:2 (roll twice) | Per:18| CMB: +6 CMD: 19 | Speed 30ft | Aspect: crone
Hexes Used:
  • Fortune:
  • Healing:
  • Heaven's Leap:
  • Time Flicker: 1 min
  • Speed or Slow Time:

Oops, Mara took 10 on her concentration check to wake up, which shouldn't have worked.

I was wondering how Mara's hexes and revelations interact with the Dreamworld. She used Heaven's Leap on Dervak, and Speed or Slow time, both in the Dreamlands, and Healing Hex on Dervak, Mara, Rowan, Theo, in the waking world. Would these all be used up for the day, or would some be usable if we made a second trip today?

If I understand correctly, the CLW wand charges she used in the Dreamlands are not used up, and would be reset for the next Dreamlands excursion. Is that right?

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