Uh we are battling a horde of undead... I vote no on raising more. Bad PR
But we can make them work for us! Plus aren't we drunk scoundrels? ;)
-Posted with Wayfinder
Difference between driunk and stupid
Out of game it is your call and I do t care
In game no way in hell Rameth hires on an undead raising person
At least no in wati. If we go somehow that hasn't been assaulted the the undead...different story
Need to roll for HP.
[dice=HP]5d6
Edit: Seriously?
-Posted with Wayfinder
Well your first level is full HP so your HP is (Constitution Bonus x 5) + 6 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 6 under my rules - so 31 HP?
Can't raise dead right now anyway. I can only command them. It will be 5 more levels before I can learn animate dead.
@DM: Sounds good.
-Posted with Wayfinder
If you want to command undead you can certainly try - there is always good ol' DM tinkering in case it gets ridiculous or would ruin a fight/area however.
Completely agree. Not trying to be overpowered, hence being upfront about intentions and DM fiat is an important thing. I have never played a necromancer so it seemed an interesting choice given the undead presence in this AP.
-Posted with Wayfinder
It'll be interesting! I'd never seen the White Mage archetype either, and I like the idea of the arcanist so I'm looking forward to how the character works - I think, for the moment, I'll rule preemptively that if you command intelligent undead and try to hold them while the other party members destroy them, if the first attack doesn't kill them (no coupe de grace guys!) they break control and can respond.
I don't see anything in control undead about that mind you, I just don't want everyone to get bored because you have the possibility to auto-win encounters (there really are a lot of undead in this AP, so far including plenty of exclusively undead encounters).
I'll have to read through the rest of the books to see how out-of-control this might get.
Seems like a fair ruling! I wouldn't be likely to use that method anyway. I'd much prefer having an intelligent undead at my side, then to have it get destroyed, even if that means I help it be the best intelligent undead it can be.
(Command Undead on a mummy. Find out mummy has a blood feud with another pyramid's mummy. Help first mummy kill second mummy and his minions, thus he becomes our friend and not enemy.)
White Mage let's me heal on the fly. Animating/Commanding Undead let's me put additional meatbags on the table to absorb damage. Wizard spell list is so much better than Cleric for buffs (Telekinetic Charge, Haste, Stoneskin, etc.).
Basically, this will let me play a support caster with a few melee bruisers to not feel relegated to hasting and healing the party every fight. At least that is my thinking.
Yep, it's very cool - I need to figure out how it works better, it'd be fun to play one myself!
|
I have played a necromancer before, not to high levels, (Four Skulls was one) and I like the concept. Imo its best to avoid keeping intelligent undead around. They get a new save against command undead everyday, they are bound to succeed someday and it can get nasty. Also its better to avoid like the plague the ones with drain that reproduce like shadows, if they get a jump on a party member we can suddenly be fighting two of them. Unintelligent undead with templetes like fast zombies and bloody skeletons are the bread and butter of a necromancer.
There is another perk. Animate dead dont consirer class lvls when turning any humanoids into undead so they endup as 1hp undeads. To get powerfull ones its necessary to turn stuff with racial HD like giants and other large/huge monsters. Those are not easily hidden when you enter a town for example so the roleplaying aspect of a necromancer tends to balance the character, funny enough pretty much like the paladin.
I think Takara can provide some interesting RP opportunities for the party but you should be aware Bold that the church of Pharasma (we currently are working for them as hired swords) is a major player in this AP and they hate necromancers. Also we are in a town overrun with undeads, we have already stopped a linch mob from killing a women acussed of being a necromancer once so things can get nasty...
That's what I meant Merck
That's a good point, however Command Undead (the spell) doesn't allow for saves every day, so it could be a bit more useful in dealing with intelligent undead.
As it stands, Takara isn't a full-on necromancer, but she is dabbling. Controlling undead is the best she can do at the moment. I do think you offer good points about making bloody/fast skeletons and zombies.
Part of the challenge will be to hide her activities from those who hate it, but also be an invaluable part of the team! I think her healing and buffs will be a welcome addition.
Healing people should make it easier for her to hide her necromantic ways from the new gods as she is a devotee of the old gods (Anubis, Osiris and Selket: Gods of Funerals/Mummification, Afterlife/Resurrection, and Embalming/Healing). If that helps, I might shuffle some points into Bluff.
Well you do what you want but full disclosure of Rameth knows you are about making undead he will toss you from the group. Unless something in the ap changes
Controlling so he can kill he has no issue with.
I as a player am concerned you are bringing in a character that has a high chance of causing an issue in the party.
I am not wed to this course of action, however I'm curious as to what you would like to see in my character. What would you have my character be? Holy cleric with Positive Channeling, Cure Spells, buffs and disease removal?
Just not an undead creating necromancer when we are looking for an undead raising necromancer in a town that somewhat doesn't trust us because we are mercenaries.
Beyond that I don't care at all. This is almost like bringing a necromancer to a group of pharaaman Paladins. Not quite so nuts but you get the idea
It sounds like some of you guys have a few reservations about the necromancer concept so let me do a deeper dive on this when I get home from work.
There are some limitations with Command Undead feat guys just so you all know (if you haven't looked it up!) including limiting the number of HD controllable to cleric (read arcanist) level.
And while command undead doesn't allow saves for intelligent undead it's basically like having the friendly condition for diplomacy - so it isn't "go hop in the lava" or "charge the dragon" crazy powerful either.
Given the fact that I'm having to up the encounter level for you guys due to having five players that means I've got some flexibility here - although there is the RP component to think about too.
OK, looked at the books and without giving too much away here I'm frankly not all that worried.
From a mechanical standpoint I don't see an issue with a necromancer, so really it's down to RP concerns on your guys part. Now I can't speak to that on your characters part, I can handle the reaction of most Osiriani to a necromancer without too much of a problem.
Merck wasn't looking forward to dealing with Scourge or Plugg though, he might get some flashbacks here :D
As I stated I have a big RP issue with it. But if that is what it is i will deal.
Why does Rameth have this RP issue with it? As far as I can tell, there is nothing in his backstory to suggest that he has a particular distaste for necromancers or undead. Also, you are a mercenary, so you are assembling a team to deal with the undead and controlling them is just as effective as killing them (especially for the mindless which get no save). This gets you paid with the added benefit of more bodies to take the blows.
You made the comparison that this is nearly like joining a group of Pharasman paladins (if such a thing existed), but there are no divine characters nor any worshipers of Pharasma. It is a group of mercenaries which, to me, is the ideal party to bring an undead necromancer as mercenaries are in it for the money, not ideology.
I really don't understand the RP issue. Help me understand.
ok one last time.
Rameth is smart, he wants the city to like him, because then they can make money, already they are receiving gifts and merchants are willing to sell and buy from him at better rates, because they like the Minders.
The city is besieged by the undead, the logical conclusion is that they were raised by a necromancer, or perhaps a cult of them.
HIRING A NECROMANCER IS BAD FOR BUSINESS. If we fail at something "you know they are working with a necromancer, maybe they are not really hoping to save us..." or whatever is easily said. Trust is lost, if trust is lost we could lose money.
Hence the reason I keep saying if we were somewhere else he has no problem with it. Why is that hard to understand?
Whoa nelly! (Shut up, I'm Texan and get to use cornpone sayings all I want - it's a birth right.)
While I get Rameth and Takara's viewpoints regarding necromancers, I think it's most important to have good feeling and comity between all the players.
So, for the record, I have already thought of four ways to bring Takara into the game and if it's that big a concern for Rameth IC I can bring Takara in into the game (soon!) without causing heartburn for our favorite drunk investigator.
|
|
ok one last time.
Rameth is smart, he wants the city to like him, because then they can make money, already they are receiving gifts and merchants are willing to sell and buy from him at better rates, because they like the Minders.
The city is besieged by the undead, the logical conclusion is that they were raised by a necromancer, or perhaps a cult of them.
HIRING A NECROMANCER IS BAD FOR BUSINESS. If we fail at something "you know they are working with a necromancer, maybe they are not really hoping to save us..." or whatever is easily said. Trust is lost, if trust is lost we could lose money.
Hence the reason I keep saying if we were somewhere else he has no problem with it. Why is that hard to understand?
I think we need to clear the air a bit. What is going on Minigm? You are yelling at my friend in the discussion thread. The guy just arrived and you have being confrontational towards him the whole time and now this.
Yelling no. Spelling it out letter by letter yes.
I made a comment that his concept is at odds w mine, an established character and I explained it multiple times, which has been ignored.
If he wants to bring a character that I have expressed several times causes an issue for mine that is his choice but to try to quote my characters background to justify it is both irritating and condescending.
I have said over and over that I have an rp issue w a necromancer and implied that it will seriously hamper my enjoyment in this game. Now I am saying it directly bringing in a necromancer at this part of the game will seriously hamper my enjoyment. Out of game I have no issue w the concept. Hell had he started the game with us I would have no issue with it but the timing is terrible. If there is a brilliant reason in game why he/she is above suspicion that is fine too, but until that is offered...
Take that how you will. But don't inply that his is all me your friend is equally culpable in sticking to the concept and ignoring my concerns completely.
Now I have already spelled that out now I have spelled this out as well. No malice no anger no yelling.
APs are a commitment for the long haul and MiniGM has made it clear that I am not welcome. I will be moving on, which is sad as I think this AP has great potential.
Thank you for the invite, Merck. Aarvid, I hope you have fun. DMummy, thank you for looking into whether a necromancer would work.
I wish you all the best of luck. Those of you who play with me on the boards know where to find me.
I dont believe I said you are not welcome. I said I have reservations about one aspect of your character. If you want to decide that means I said you the player are not welcome you are welcome to do so. But that is neither my intent not what I wrote.
I need to grab a shower so for my sanity's sake please suspend posting until I have time to respond.
Thanks.
OK, I am back. Thank you for waiting, I’m sorry this has taken so long. I've got a long-ish note for all of you, then I'm going to send people individual messages to try and address this so things get better, not worse.
First, I want to apologize to all concerned regarding the activity in the discussion thread. After examining the issue it's clear to me that I wasn't as effective in managing a conflict as I needed to be, either in communicating with you directly or on the discussion thread. I'm sorry that this has caused friction between you all as players as we had, at least until now, been working in my opinion fantastically well - for some of us since January of last year!
Second, I want to talk to you all about trust. This is almost always unsaid as it's assumed but in any decent tabletop RPG, but you have to trust your fellow players and trust you GM. Part of this comes down to intentions; you have to trust that everyone at the table, or subforum thread in this case, is coming from the best of intentions - both in how you talk among yourselves and how you present your character. Now I know there are bad apples, but I'd hope over 11 months and almost 3700 combined posts across that you'd come to believe that people aren't acting out of bad motives.
One of the great problems with posting on a forum or through text is that you cannot judge tone. What seems reasonable or fun to you might be seen as angry or hurtful to other players. Now I am not a big believer in blame - it's useless and only causes problems to fester instead of finding a resolution.
So I would like, and appreciate, everyone in the game to commit to three things for me.
One: Keep an open mind. If someone comes up with a suggestion or objection outside of the game don't start by thinking they're trying to spoil your fun. At the same time if someone has an idea or concept give them a chance to sit down and explain it out.
Two: When writing something confrontational - and any form of disagreement or discussion, no matter how amicable is confrontational - stop before you post and think to yourself "Could someone take this the wrong way?" If the answer is yes, for whatever reason, see if you can edit your post even a little to explain where you're coming from - either in the way you’re talking or how you're presenting your viewpoint.
Three: Take a breath. This is a game, we're all here to have fun. If you're posting on this board you're a huge, huge fan of playing in RPG's, particularly Pathfinder. The community's big but not big enough to carry or cause a grudge. Please sit back, take a few seconds to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see where they're coming from. I'm not going to demand apologies and good feelings. I can't control your behavior - I don't want to either. But I would appreciate if, for my sake and the sake of each other, we can move forward from this problem.
I want to make one last thing clear here. I am not taking sides, I am not showing favoritism, I am not trying to determine if someone's opinion is more valid than someone else's. I don't want to do that, and it should not be necessary for me to do that. I apologize again for my lack of attention to an issue that was more serious than I believed and allowing it to get to the part where people have been hurt or felt unwelcome in the game.
I am committed to finishing this AP barring my sudden death by truck or meteor - I want to finish it with all of my players happy, with characters ridiculously overburdened with loot and the annoyingly difficult to stop powers you all know and love.
It is my hope we'll all be able to do so.
One further note - I'm burnt out for the night, no further posts from me.
I'll be back at it tomorrow.
After discussing it with DMummy, I will bring Takara into the fold. I have worked with him to create a back story that won't offend many sensibilities and addresses the idea of her creating a significant problem for the mercenary group.
Thank you for stating your issues, MiniGM. Hopefully, we can consider this all water under the bridge.
Same here
reported
roll your day jobs here and fill it in. DMummy you got the DM credit
So after careful consideration, reviewing the debate over my concerns in this thread, discussion with DMummy and several readings of takaras backstory and personality I have decided to retire Rameth.
There are too many potential pitfalls for him to continue to be true to who he is for me to continue without risk of another misunderstood disagreement or having another player feel not welcome
After this fight he will be withdrawing.
i will leave the loot sheet active of course, but until i return with another character someone will need to keep it up, or you will wind up shorting yourselves.
Essentially. Still need Albus to move!
Perhaps bot him so we can continue?
Hi guys. Yesterday my grandmother passed away. This week is going to be a little hard for me. Please DMNPC Albus as needed.
Merck, I'm terribly sorry for your loss, take all the time you have to and I'll bot Albus from here until you feel you can get back.
That's an awful thing to go through I hope you and your family are alroght
Good luck man, that's rough.
alright folks, i have created a new loot sheet for you all. i will finish calculating the value of the old one. One of you will need to take control of the tracking and valuing of it until i come back with a new character, i definitely will not be doing loot tracking while i am gone.
Make sure you use the new sheet or you will be shorting yourselves from the first half of this book
alright the loot sheet has been moved around
Once you are able to sell things at full price Cain Tobbs and Dwalindor get 4000 gold
Dwalindor still has that sword, and you have something called the hand of the honest man, which I don't what that is so that carries over
Additionally the healing pot is up to almost 4000 all of that is on the new sheet
if you try to cash out now DM will let you know how much of the 4000 you get
|
I was looking at the new sheet and it says
Calin, Tobbs and Albus owed 4000gp
But in the post above it says Cain Tobbs and Dwalindor.
Tobbs is a animal companion, so I am assuming it is Albus, Calin and Dwalindor each get 4k.
However, until we figure out which, Dwalindor will not make any purchases.
Of all the consumables, I will assume Albus took items that required arcane caster, Calin the divine and evenly split things like alchemist fire, healing potions etc.
The art/expensive items, I am assuming Ibrihim is holding and looking for buyers.