@DM Bloodgargler: Will you just be using the 'basic' kingdom-building rules, or the official 3rd-party ones from John Brazer?
I'm leaning toward using the Ultimate Campaign rules considering they are on the PRD so everyone has access to them. I have and have used the Jon Brazer book, so if there are components from it which you are keen on using.. I'm happy to look into it.
Urgh...today was busier than expected. I'm making room tonight when I get home from work overtime to write. Sorry again...
I think that came out a bit more ominous than I expected...probably influenced by the music, ha.
I suppose I should try to come up with more that adds hope and promise as well. I'll try and work that out in my head.
/strokes chin
So...in light of Durielle's oh so inspiring visions, I vote we say to Hell with all of it, and just go back to Restov. ;)
Hmm... but I won't be a real noblewoman if we do that!
All fanged up... :E
It's already wound down a bit, but since the name debate could potentially continue ad nauseam, perhaps we should settle on stuff here. Assuming that we players can agree more than our characters, anyway. :P
I'm assuming that we need a name for the new nation, a name for the keep that will (eventually) replace the Stag Fort, and for the village that will be built around that keep. A couple ideas have already been bounced around for at least two of those, so...
I have no especial preference beyond "something that people are happy with." I like the idea of something positive and forward-looking, and I think reclaiming the Stag motif from the Stag Lord and turning it back to Erastil is possibly something worth doing - though that might be better represented in how we name the location with the Temple of Erastil (I think it's already called the Temple of the Stag?).
I dunno when Durielle will be back, it looks like the player last posted on Friday and was out for the weekend, which is not unusual for the boards, but I am eager to keep goin'. This game tends to move pretty slowly. :)
I don't have any strong preferences for a name for anything beyond, as Marisol said, "something that people are happy with"...although with one of Durielle's visons we might as well call it Castle Ravenloft ;)
Yes, the game moves slowly over all, but it does have it's bursts of activity. Perhaps we can decide on some names and work our way toward another one of those. I hope Hrafen is still around...we haven't heard from him since Aug 5th.
Wellll that particular vision may have been my fault... :E
But it was a super-cool scene and I think there are some positive notes too. I would like to see our characters continue to move forward!
I do hope nothing ill has befallen Hrafen's player!
Sorry for the quiet. Been wrestling with a decision I feel I have to make regarding another game of which I am GM. Been keeping my attention. I'll respond to Marisol's entreaties soon.
Oh it's fine! It was GenCon weekend, many people were out anyway. :)
We seem to need to discuss some things.
I would like to clarify the map. The shaded parts are explored?
Hie thee to the discussion forum with the OOC posts!
So, how much cash do we have?
Typically in KM, you get a starting package to establish your kingdom. I don't think that's happened for us yet, and maybe it won't, but the game goes verrrry differently if you don't have it.
I am thinking +1 on my mithral cutlass (if I have 2,000 gp from a share) or saving up for better armor.
"Be it so known that the bearers of this charter, having delivered the
northern reaches of the Greenbelt from the scourge of banditry, working
toward detailed maps of the lay of the land, and having done no small
amount of work in the exploration of said land and the culling of
hostile monsters and indigenous hazards, are hereby granted the right
to rule. The nature and laws of rule are theirs to define, and the
wellbeing of this new nation is theirs to protect.
In accordance for providing a stable nation to the south of central
Rostland, * let there be a generous stipend of funds, support, and advice
provided to this fledgling nation as a token of Restov and Brevoy’s
goodwill, such that future relations between kingdoms might be mutually
beneficial.
So witnessed under the watchful eye of the Lordship of Restov and
by the authority granted by Lord Noleski Surtova, current Regent of
the Dragonscale Throne."
* = 50 Build Points
Also, many of the tools, weapons, and miscellaneous trade goods found at the Stag Fort can be converted into 2 BP
(edit:everything on loot list marked as Stag Fort other than Falgrim's belongings and coins.. plus the 5000gp in trade goods = 2BP)
Durielle - yes. Shaded is explored.
Okay, I've updated the loot sheet with the values of the items we have to sell. I've taken the liberty of marking items I believe we should keep. Obviously, if there is something that I have put into the "sell" pile that you would like, by all means make a claim and I will subtract that out.
Likewise, if there are things that I have put in the keep pile that you think should be sold, speak up as well.
None of the new stuff is especially good for me; the amulet should go to Vlad or Balter, the magic longsword probably Balter.
None of the new stuff is especially good for me; the amulet should go to Vlad or Balter, the magic longsword probably Balter.
Good call on the longsword...thought Balter already had a magic longsword.
Balter is a bit partial to his cold iron, but there's certainly room on his belt for another sword!
Are we particularly attached to the Stag Lord's helm? It's iconic, but none of us can really get the most out of it.
Well, either:
1. It goes to some NPC (Jhod? Some follower when we get Leadership?), or
2. It gets liquidated for cash, or
3. It gets hung on the wall over the mantel in our eventual castle.
An archer/rogue gets the best use out of the Stag Helm, as we don't have one of those in the party, I suppose it makes sense to liquidate the helm.
Side Note: Do we still have Hrafen? I don't believe we've heard from him in a month as of today. Doing a bit of alias stalking, it appears that his player has been active on the boards within the last 24 hours.
Durielle would not be in favor of selling the Stag Helm. She's the most likely to use a bow, and goodness knows her Perception can use the boost since she has that penalty against traps and ambush, but really Durielle would suggest taking the Stag Helm to the Temple of Erastil so that the relic could be turned over to its priest and be consecrated as a symbol of restoration.
A priest of Erastil should be thrilled to receive a gift of this kind, and I would expect Erastil would be pleased by our respect as well. The gods do so love when mortals sacrifice to them what could benefit us.
I'm good with either option. Obviously, selling it would provide the group with 1,750 gp that could be re-purposed. On the other hand if we were to donate it to the Temple of Elk, we might realize a story benefit...even it is only convincing someone like Jhod to fill one of our many open leadership seats. (Along with Oleg, Kesten, etc.)
I guess that brings up another point, we need to solidify who will hold which roles. Our PCs could likely fit into a number of these rolls. Anything I've added below is just spit-balling.
Ruler - I assume Vladimir is stepping into this one. If I am mistaken please speak up.
The Ruler is the highest-ranking person in the kingdom, above even the other kingdom leaders, and is expected to embody the values of the kingdom. The Ruler performs the kingdom's most important ceremonies (such as knighting royals and signing treaties), is the kingdom's chief diplomatic officer (though most of these duties are handled by the Grand Diplomat), is the signatory for all laws affecting the entire kingdom, pardons criminals when appropriate, and is responsible for appointing characters to all other high positions in the government (such as other leadership roles, mayors of settlements, and judges).
Benefit: Choose one kingdom attribute (Economy, Loyalty, or Stability). Add your Charisma modifier to this attribute. If your kingdom's Size is 26—100, choose a second kingdom attribute and add your Charisma modifier to it as well. If your kingdom's Size is 101 or more, choose a third kingdom attribute and add your Charisma modifier to it too.
If you have the Leadership feat, the bonus from the feat applies to all kingdom attributes you affect (one, two, or three attributes, depending on the kingdom's Size).
If you marry someone of equal station, you both can act as Ruler. You both add your Charisma modifiers to the kingdom attribute (or attributes, if the kingdom is large enough). As long as one of you is present for 1 week per month, you avoid the vacancy penalty.
In a typical campaign where the kingdom leaders have no ties to actual nobility, "someone of equal station" is irrelevant and your marriage is between two Rulers. In a campaign where the leaders are nobles or royals, marrying someone of lesser station means the spouse becomes a Consort rather than a Ruler.
Vacancy Penalty: A kingdom without a ruler cannot claim new hexes, create Farms, build Roads, or purchase settlement districts. Unrest increases by 4 during the kingdom's Upkeep phase.
Consort
The Consort is usually the spouse of the Ruler, and spends time attending court, speaking with and advising nobles, touring the kingdom to lift the spirits of the people, and so on. In most kingdoms, you cannot have two married Rulers and a Consort at the same time.
The Consort represents the Ruler when the Ruler is occupied or otherwise unable to act. With the Ruler's permission, the Consort may perform any of the Ruler's duties, allowing the Ruler to effectively act in two places at once. If the Ruler dies, the Consort may act as Ruler until the Heir comes of age and can take over as Ruler.
Benefit: Add half your Charisma modifier to Loyalty. If the ruler is unavailable during a turn, you may act as the Ruler for that turn, negating the vacancy penalty for having no Ruler, though you do not gain the Ruler benefit. If you act as the Ruler for the turn, you must succeed at a Loyalty check during the kingdom's Upkeep phase or Unrest increases by 1.
Vacancy Penalty: None.
Councilor - I could certainly see Durielle in this role.
The Councilor acts as a liaison between the citizenry and the other kingdom leaders, parsing requests from the commonwealth and presenting the leaders' proclamations to the people in understandable ways. It is the Councilor's responsibility to make sure the Ruler is making decisions that benefit the kingdom's communities and its citizens.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier or Wisdom modifier to Loyalty.
Vacancy Penalty: Loyalty decreases by 2. The kingdom gains no benefits from the Holiday edict. During the Upkeep phase, Unrest increases by 1.
General
The General is the highest-ranking member of the kingdom's military. If the kingdom has an army and a navy, the heads of those organizations report to the kingdom's General. The General is responsible for looking after the needs of the military and directing the kingdom's armies in times of war. Most citizens see the General as a protector and patriot.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier or Strength modifier to Stability.
Vacancy Penalty: Loyalty decreases by 4.
Grand Diplomat
The Grand Diplomat is in charge of the kingdom's foreign policy—how it interacts with other kingdoms and similar political organizations such as tribes of intelligent monsters. The Grand Diplomat is the head of all of the kingdom's diplomats, envoys, and ambassadors. It is the Grand Diplomat's responsibility to represent and protect the interests of the kingdom with regard to foreign powers.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier or Intelligence modifier to Stability.
Vacancy Penalty: Stability decreases by 2. The kingdom cannot issue Diplomatic or Exploration edicts.
Heir - Not applicable at this time...
The Heir is usually the Ruler's eldest son or daughter, though some kingdoms may designate a significant advisor (such as a seneschal) as Heir. The Heir's time is mostly spent learning to become a ruler—pursuing academic and martial training, touring the kingdom to get to the know the land and its people, experiencing the intrigues of courtly life, and so on.
Because the Heir carries the potential of being the next Ruler, the Heir's role is similar to the Consort in that the Heir may act on behalf of the Ruler.
Benefit: Add half your Charisma modifier to Loyalty. You may act as the Ruler for a turn, negating the vacancy penalty for the kingdom having no Ruler, though you do not gain the Ruler benefit. Whenever you act as the Ruler for the turn, you must succeed at a Loyalty check during the kingdom's Upkeep phase or Unrest increases by 1.
Vacancy Penalty: None.
High Priest: - Jhod?
The High Priest tends to the kingdom's religious needs and guides its growth. If the kingdom has an official religion, the High Priest may also be the highest-ranking member of that religion in the kingdom, and has similar responsibilities over the lesser priests of that faith to those the Grand Diplomat has over the kingdom's ambassadors and diplomats. If the kingdom has no official religion, the High Priest may be a representative of the most popular religion in the kingdom or a neutral party representing the interests of all religions allowed by the kingdom.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier or Wisdom modifier to Stability.
Vacancy Penalty: Stability and Loyalty decrease by 2. During the Upkeep phase, Unrest increases by 1.
Magister - Hrafen if we still have him?
The Magister guides the kingdom's higher learning and magic, promoting education and knowledge among the citizens and representing the interests of magic, science, and academia. In most kingdoms, the Magister is a sage, a wizard, or a priest of a deity of knowledge, and oversees the governmental bureaucracy except regarding finance.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier or Intelligence modifier to Economy.
Vacancy Penalty: Economy decreases by 4.
Marshal - Could be a good fit for Balter or...
The Marshal ensures that the kingdom's laws are being enforced in the remote parts of the kingdom as well as in the vicinity of the capital. The Marshal is also responsible for securing the kingdom's borders. He organizes regular patrols and works with the General to respond to threats that militias and adventurers can't deal with alone.
Benefit: Add your Dexterity modifier or Wisdom modifier to Economy.
Vacancy Penalty: Economy decreases by 4.
Royal Enforcer - We can forgo this one without penalty...we should do just that for now.
The Royal Enforcer deals with punishing criminals, working with the Councilor to make sure the citizens feel the government is adequately dealing with wrongdoers, and working with the Marshal to capture fugitives from the law. The Royal Enforcer may grant civilians the authority to kill in the name of the law.
Benefit: Add your Dexterity modifier or Strength modifier to Loyalty. During the Upkeep phase, you may decrease Unrest by 1 (this is not affected by having the Leadership feat); if you do so, you must succeed at a Loyalty check or Loyalty decreases by 1.
Vacancy Penalty: None.
Spymaster
The Spymaster observes the kingdom's criminal elements and underworld and spies on other kingdoms. The Spymaster always has a finger on the pulse of the kingdom's underbelly, and uses acquired information to protect the interests of the kingdom at home and elsewhere through a network of spies and informants.
Benefit: During the Edict phase, choose one kingdom attribute (Economy, Loyalty or Stability). Add your Dexterity modifier or Intelligence modifier to this attribute.
Vacancy Penalty: Economy decreases by 4. During the Upkeep phase, Unrest increases by 1.
Treasurer - Oleg?
The Treasurer monitors the state of the kingdom's Treasury and citizens' confidence in the value of their money and investigates whether any businesses are taking unfair advantage of the system. The Treasurer is in charge of the tax collectors and tracks debts and credits with guilds and other governments.
Benefit: Add your Intelligence modifier or Wisdom modifier to Economy.
Vacancy Penalty: Economy decreases by 4. The kingdom cannot collect taxes—during the Edict phase, when you would normally collect taxes, the kingdom does not collect taxes at all and the taxation level is considered "none."
Viceroy - Not applicable at the moment. Could be significant later.
The Viceroy represents the Ruler's interests on an ongoing basis in a specific location such as a colony or vassal state (see the optional Vassalage edict). The Viceroy is in effect the Ruler for that territory; her orders are superceded only by direct commands from the Ruler.
Benefit: Add half your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier to Economy. You may assume any leadership role (including Ruler) for your colony or vassal state, but any benefit you provide in this role is 1 less than normal; if you do so, you must spend 7 days that month performing duties appropriate to that leadership role in addition to the 7 days spent for Viceroy duties.
Vacancy Penalty: If you have no Viceroy for your vassal state, treat it as if it had the Ruler vacancy penalty.
Warden -...this could be a good fit for Balter as well
The Warden is responsible for enforcing laws in larger settlements, as well as ensuring the safety of the kingdom leaders. The Warden also works with the General to deploy forces to protect settlements and react to internal threats.
Benefit: Add your Constitution modifier or Strength modifier to Loyalty.
Vacancy Penalty: Loyalty and Stability decrease by 2.
I have always assumed that Vlad was going to become the God-Emperor King, so no objections there. I think that the Warden role will definitely suit Balter best; if his Wisdom were a little higher I would go for Marshal, but I think we'll definitely need to find someone else to fill that role.
I can take up Grand Diplomat, Magister (if we can't get Hrafen back), or possibly Consort (depending on how things go...). While the station itself runs off of stats (and I have a solid Charisma bonus), I am also planning to pick up Diplomacy as a class skill next level, so in scenes where I have to actually Diplomance I'll be pretty good at that, too.
I think Grand Diplomat would be a fine starting roll for Marisol. As you say, we'll see how things go from there.
Next question pertaining to Hrafen...
If we do not get him back, do we want to recruit a new arcane caster?
It's a shame, but if we don't hear back from him, we might definitely want to see about getting a new arcane or psychic caster. And honestly, Hrafen pulled a lot of the weight in combat, so we might miss having that extra body there.
Yeah, definitely. Marisol is kind of a suboptimal build for combat, I've mostly been getting lucky. I would love for us to have a solid blaster or debuffer of some kind who can also fill one of the kingdom roles well.
@DM BG - Any thoughts on the Hrafen question?
Truth be told, Durielle is really a terrible character for the ruler portion of this game.When I created her ever so long ago, I knew very little about the KM kingdom building roles, etc, and really just made a character who I envisioned as being more community support not as a ruler or official directly.
I truly imagined her as the enigmatic witch/fortune teller/oracle who lives in the ruined temple on the mountain overlooking the settlement and was the one people approached for guidance into their personal lives at the most intimate of levels, not the wide view of a court official.
As it turns out, none of the roles really support that concept. The closest one is High Priest, but even that assumes direct subordinates and some level of bureaucratic politicking.
Durielle as a character is very shy, prone to near-manic swings of mood and emotion, and much, much too caring to be any good at true rulership.
Quite frankly, I may need to leave her behind now that the game has progressed. I don't know. I really enjoy the character and what I think she is, but I just don't really see her as being a politician. Court Advisor/Diviner to the Ruler? Sure. But not really one who would have direct power. I would imagine her clout would be her mystery and association with the Ruler(s) and/or Consort. Most likely she could manipulate and machinate on behalf of the ruling group, but most likely because people fear her and what she probably knows about the future. People are most likely to hate her as she could be a reminder that they may not have as much control of the future as they wish...even though her entire position is that the future can still be changed and responds to people's drive. Irony is the human(oid) condition, I'm afraid.
So...I'm trying to decide what to do next.
I sent a PM to Hrafen.
Durielle - Up to you. I could see her as a pretty interesting version of a spymaster. How the role works (and even the title) can be reflavored - your information would not necessarily need to come from spies and informant underlings.
If you really do prefer to make another character, I'd go along with it.
@Durielle - Like DM BG said, totally up to you. The only reason I thought councilor might have fit was Durielle's stopping Vlad from removing digits on a few prisoners a ways back. That being said what DM BG said about a re-flavored Spymaster sounds kind of neat too.
I would miss Durielle lots, but if you need to change focus, she can always retire to a tiny cabin in the woods where we visit her when we need advice and creepy vignettes. :)
But yes, absolutely, take one of the roles and bend, twist, spindle, and mutilate it to your needs!
I suppose I should claim the studded leather +1 to upgrade from the simple Mwk I have. And perhaps one of the Mwk longswords. The Aldori dueling sword was just local flavor considering the cute roundabout way Durielle could use it being an elf despite her normal class limitations.
Balter should probably grab that composite longbow. I know he prefers to get up close and personal, but it can't hurt to have a magic long range weapon, no?
Also true! I can wait to get something after our next round of victories. :)
Wait, what? Did I claim something you wanted?
No, not at all - as I said above I'm mostly saving up to get some magic on my weapons and armor. I was saying I agree with you that Balter's probably the best use for the bow.
Loot list updated with most recent claims, pending Balter's claim of the bow.
What? Marisol doesn't want the whip?
↻(*╰◣_◢╯)Ψ
Not proficient with it... I guess I could make knots or something, but... taking a -4 non-proficiency penalty for its use is kind of a bummer?
Lol, that was just a joke, my dear.
I know!
*flexes the whip in her hands, folds it, and makes it crack by snapping it tight, twists it as if to make a knot, then fumbles and drops it*
See? Non-proficiency penalties aren't sexy! :(
Besides, Marisol would never whip Durielle unless she wanted it. ;)
Wooh, is it getting warm in here?
Is this part where Vladimir mentions that he is proficient with whips?
Zing!
No good if you don't use it though! ;)
I swear, you two are both merciless teases. *pouts*
You started it :P
Durielle started it with her comment about the whip! :O
That's not what I meant.
Durielle and Vladimir were perfectly well behaved before Marisol started sauntering around here ;)
That being said, if I weren't more interested in the cash, Vlad may very well have taken the magical scorpion whip.
OHHHH yes OK that's legitimate. Guilty as charged. Horrible seductress-vampiress. :-E
(But nobody reminisces about the adventures they had when they didn't get into trouble...)
Hm. The bow would be handy, but I think Balter would get more mileage out of the amulet of natural armor. He's one of the group's front-liners, but he only has an AC of 17. It's a miracle that he hasn't been KO'd yet. :P
And giving it more thought, I don't exactly want to eat the up the party's wealth, so honestly I would be happy with just that.
>_>
<_<
*cough*
Well... /completely-ignores-mention-of-misbehavior-while-blushing
I'm going to try and see if I can get Durielle to fit somewhere. I've PM'd the beginnings of a proposal of a custom leader role which could work for Durielle and might provide a pretty mechanic...but we'll see if it will work for DM Bloodgargler.
/fingers crossed