DM Bloodgargler's Kingmaker - Stolen Lands

Game Master karlprosek


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aye aye


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

I'm not sure if Balter (Mahorfeus) said this anywhere, but he is out of town for a family event. I'm not sure if he will have internet access during this, so he may not be posting for the next few days.


Okie doke.. ty.


I'm leaving tomorrow on a cabin trip until Sunday. I doubt I'll have interweb access... so feel free to chat amongst yourselves.


>Loot list info
Gear of quality from Topper Red fight
+1 lamellar (leather) armor
Mwk leather armor,
+1 scorpion whip (aa)
Mwk punching dagger
Mwk Longsword
+1 Dagger

Stag Fort
6750gp in trade goods
3000gp in trinkets and jewelry

Bridge
Mwk survival kit 50gp
compass 10gp

>Stuff to identify from fort fight
longsword
composite longbow
leather armor
studded leather
stag helm
stag amulet


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

I think we are ready to move on to morning whenever you are, DM BG.


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

I will be camping and out of contact this weekend. Back Monday!


Meh... I'd forgotten about going back to check your other game. I did check what hexes you had counted as explored from when I first went through it, but missed that you'd had the tatzlwyrm encounter.


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Oh goodness! I was reall just using that as roleplaying fare! I certainly don't have any problem with redoing anything. Seeing other time possibilities is part of Durielle's problems. It was just convenient in this case. :D


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

I know I'm quiet sometimes, but I check the game regularly. Are we still playing?


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

I'm still here waitin'.


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

Likewise.


Male Half-Elf Wild Shadow 4 | HP 40/40 | AC 18, T 12, FF 16 | Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 | CMD 20 | Init +2 | Perception +11

Ditto.


Male Halfling Sorceror (Crossblood [Orc]/[Elemental(Primal)] & Tattooed Sorceror) 4 (AC 19/14/16; HP 22/30; Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4; Init +7; CMD 11; Perception +15)

Still here!


OK sorry... terrible couple weeks. Lost someone.. just got back home, and first time on the internet since.

FWIW I'm ok, and looking forward to getting back at it.

---

Vladimir suggested going to Marlbeck's hut before considering approaching the mass of people. Should we go ahead with that? If so stealthily or nonchalantly?


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

I am sorry to hear of your loss. You have my condolences.

I would be in favor of nonchalant approach. What do the rest of you think?


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

I agree, we have no reason to make Marlbeck suspicious, and we should probably present ourselves with confidence in our ability to pull this off, not as if we are afraid of Dovan and thus sneaking around.


Male Half-Elf Wild Shadow 4 | HP 40/40 | AC 18, T 12, FF 16 | Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 | CMD 20 | Init +2 | Perception +11

Balter is a tad bit paranoid, but he'll be fine with an open approach.


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Vladimir, how come your horse never fights anymore?


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

If we are traveling he does, but in this case we dismounted once we got into the village.


Male Halfling Sorceror (Crossblood [Orc]/[Elemental(Primal)] & Tattooed Sorceror) 4 (AC 19/14/16; HP 22/30; Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4; Init +7; CMD 11; Perception +15)

Heh. After Dovan's last comment, Hrafen is sorely tempted to give him a personal demonstration of Hrafen's peak effectiveness ;-)


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

Still here, just nothing to say in addition to the current scene!


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

What yes or no should I ask? Whether approaching the Tower first would bring weal or woe?


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Any opinions or suggestions?


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

The question you proposed would be fine. The same could be said for any of the battles we have remaining. (Hostages or at the river).


Busy here... I'll update tomorrow.


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

Thanks for the head's up.


If any others wish to do one round of prep/buffing before the move forward, please include it in your post. Also, the soldier could use instruction.. if and how he should be involved.

Also... leaving for cabin trip in a few hours.
I'm out of town until Sunday.


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

Have a fun trip! :D


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

I will be camping this weekend and may not have internet. Bot if needed!


I've been trying to come up with a way to wrap this up to get you back on track quickly and satisfyingly (trim my intended subplot which has already gone on waaay too long).
I think we can get back to it now. I've really learned my lesson.. just because it worked so well in my face to face game doesn't mean it's a good idea for PBP. The whole subplot with Elmere, Dovan's tower, and the bit I'm trimming here was two sessions in my home game. Chafwinth Crossroads came up because they were spending so much time repeatedly returning to Oleg's, and needed a "closer version" of that.

Thanks for hanging in there... I've enjoyed your interactions, and I'm looking forward to what's to come in the path. Things should go a lot more smoothly and at a better pace now going by the book from here on out.

*I think I'd actually "learned my lesson" a while back, but then fell into a sunk cost fallacy - needed to keep going until the time spent became worth the time spent somehow(?)


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

I appreciate the candor. I think we are all pretty excited to get to further exploration and kingdom building!


Male Half-Elf Wild Shadow 4 | HP 40/40 | AC 18, T 12, FF 16 | Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 | CMD 20 | Init +2 | Perception +11

Dovan strikes me as a more interesting villain than the Stag Lord, who was more or less just a drunken brute. At the same time, I was admittedly a bit surprised that things didn't just wrap up with his death.

I'm not really sure when book one of Kingmaker is "supposed" to end, but it felt natural that Dovan would be the next thing we had to address. Wrapping up the wilderness exploration, maybe not so much.


Yeah I guess that will still linger as a variance from the book. In the book he is at the fort - replaced as second in command but still there, but I too found him more interesting than the Stag Lord. I prefer Dovan as a separate concern, and likely a threat at some point as the kingdom expands.. if not sooner (depending on your interactions and moralities).


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

While it has drug on longer than would be preferred, I have enjoyed the subplot pieces. Definitely have more hatred for Dovan than the Stag Lord.

The Stag Lord was little more than an unthinking monster/boogyman type where a Dovan is contemptible in his arrogance and seemingly callous attitude regarding his "subjects".


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

Thank you for the update! I too feel like Dovan has become much more of an antagonist. I hope we can push on and develop the story further. :)


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

I find the current predicament interesting, and until Dovan crosses the line that makes him something that can't be ignored, I find it refreshing to have a villain who is obviously that, but has not yet crossed enough lines morally for those who are Good to feel like they should take action without regret.

He's teetering on the line, but the tension is great. Having him kind of live on as a blight for now seems like an interesting development. It's exactly the kind of thing Good deals with regularly in life. Wrestling with ethical and moral code when we can "see" the evident truth but can't prove it for certain.


Male Halfling Sorceror (Crossblood [Orc]/[Elemental(Primal)] & Tattooed Sorceror) 4 (AC 19/14/16; HP 22/30; Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4; Init +7; CMD 11; Perception +15)

I haven't minded in the slightest.

That said, I think Hrafen's intentions towards Dovan are pretty clear ;-)


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Sorry for the delay everyone. I have a PM to DM Bloodgargler that I would prefer to have a response on before I make my post, but I will try to get something done soonish-like if that doesn't pan out.


responded to PM

DM rolls:
1d100 ⇒ 85
1d100 ⇒ 20
1d6 ⇒ 4

Probably are a few things you could discuss here OOC... such as alignment of Kingdom.


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

Vlad and I are both Lawful Neutral, Hrafen is NG, Durielle is CG, Balter is CN. So um... I got nuthin'.


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

Hmmmm...

Lawful = 2
Neutral = 1
Chaotic = 2

Good = 2
Neutral = 3
Evil = 0

Part of that decision would be along with who is filling which roles. If Vlad is to be the Baron/Duke/Eventual King he would push for a Lawful society. Between Good and Neutral, obviously he has neutral leanings but could be persuaded toward good, especially given his penchant for offering second chances - albeit with very specific rules attached.

All that being said if you just go "by the numbers" the kingdom should be true neutral, but that's boring and wishy-washy.


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Based on DM Bloodgargler's response, I have now sent PMs to each of you. Not looking for short stories in response unless you want to. Just a couple of quick bullet points will do. :)

Regarding alignment: Durielle is not a hard, hard Chaotic. It's more the idea of fluidity in rules and regulation. A free spirit and seeing others remain free. She certainly knows and understands the need for rules, and as a citizen would very much comply with any instituted. But she would be much more likely the kind of person who would just shrug if if someone "breaks the rules" when it makes to do so. In short, she would be fine with a Lawful society as long as it is one that strives towards Good and the wellbeing of all.

Just Neutral or Evil society will see her retreat to the outskirts to be the "Oracle on the Hill" kind of persona that ends up being the subject of a lot of rumor. :P


Male Halfling Sorceror (Crossblood [Orc]/[Elemental(Primal)] & Tattooed Sorceror) 4 (AC 19/14/16; HP 22/30; Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4; Init +7; CMD 11; Perception +15)

Honestly? I think that we should see *which* kingdom-building system our lovely GM is planning to use, since, from memory, the Paizo-specific one assigns bonuses to various things depending on alignment, and different roles within the kingdom require different ability scores.

That said, as you say, 'by the numbers', a Lawful Neutral society would be a fair compromise...


INACTIVE - GAME DIED

I agree that knowing the game mechanics may influence our decision, but I think those values become so small in the long run that we may be better served by making our choice on the basis of what we feel our characters would espouse?

As a compromise I might suggest Neutral Good - and here's why.

While both Vlad and Marisol are LN, they have a bit of a streak of Good as well (Marisol probably moreso). Since Balter and Durielle are both Chaotic, a strongly Lawful kingdom would probably be a very hostile place to them. Splitting the difference, being NG would be less structure than Vlad wants; Marisol would probably not mind; and Durielle at least would get to live with a place that cares about the welfare of its people. Hrafen is NG so he would fit in perfectly. Balter might chafe at civilization, but he has a low Charisma and a bad attitude so who cares what he thinks. ;)

Basically it seems to split the difference in a way that is least likely to totally alienate anyone - we are wildly split on law/chaos, but we all lean away from evil (some more than others). So this is sort of a proportional voting split where we may not get the thing that some people really really want, but we get the compromise that is least offensive to the most people.


Male Half-Elf Wild Shadow 4 | HP 40/40 | AC 18, T 12, FF 16 | Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 | CMD 20 | Init +2 | Perception +11

Huh. Despite it being right there in your alias header, I always thought Vlad was of a more Lawful Good bent.

In any case, I may or may not have done a decent job of showing it, but the group has been a good influence on Balter. He's certainly not Good yet, but I can see him going in that direction eventually. Since our group would have autonomy regardless of what alignment the kingdom ends up being, I don't see any reason why it couldn't work out. He would find any excuse he could to get back out into the wild. :P

That said, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Good strike me as the biggest possibilities.

I am also interested in how the actual mechanics will work. Will having conflicting alignments screw with things somewhat, or is that kind of conflict going to be more on the roleplaying end?


Marisol is right... the values are fairly small at the start, and will have less and less of an impact as the kingdom grows.
The role-playing aspect is probably of more importance... though still will not likely come into play too frequently.

Chaotic: +2 Loyalty
Lawful: +2 Economy
Neutral: Stability +2
Evil: +2 Economy
Good: +2 Loyalty


Init +3 | HP 27/27 | AC 16 T 13 FF 13 | Fort +0 Ref +4 Will +5 [-2 Ref (trap/hazard)] | Perc +9 (LowL) -2 Perc (Surprise) | Spells: 1st 7/7, 2nd 2/5 | Time Flkr 4/5| wand CLW CL1 37/50

Huh...you would almost think Chaotic and Lawful would be flip-flopped.

Most more Lawful fascist regimes instill state-worshipping citizens (e.g. Nazis) where a more Chaotic, less-regulated state would excel economically with free trade and capitalism.

/taps temple thoughtfully

EDIT: I suppose PF's interpretation is Freedom = Loyalty and Security = Economy.

Fair enough.


Male LN Human (Varisian) Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Daring Champion) 4 / Bard 1 | HP: 25/39 | AC: 20 (14 Tch, 16 FF) | CMB: +5 (+6), CMD: 18 (19) | Fort +5, Reflex +6, Will +4 | Initiative: +5 | Perception: +8, Sense Motive: +8 | Speed 30ft | Active conditions: None | Performance 7/7 | 1st Level Spells 0/2 | Panache 2/3 | Challenge 1/2 | Tactician 1/1

So, what do we have then? Mentioned thus far:

Lawful Neutral - 3 (Vlad, Balter, Hrafen)
Lawful Good - (Vlad)
Neutral Good - 1 (Marisol)
Chaotic Good - 1 (Balter)
XXXX Good - 1 (Durielle)

Party members, while nominally neutral in the cases of Vlad, Marisol, and Balter, have generally played closer to good. Even though my first suggestion was Lawful Neutral, I could certainly get behind Neutral Good or Lawful Good.


Male Halfling Sorceror (Crossblood [Orc]/[Elemental(Primal)] & Tattooed Sorceror) 4 (AC 19/14/16; HP 22/30; Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4; Init +7; CMD 11; Perception +15)

Well, as someone who did a fair amount of kingdom-building in a home-brew game (where, by the 70th 'turn' we had ended-up with a size 123 kingdom, with Economy 170, Loyalty 209, and Stability 206), I can tell you that Economy is what you need to super-charge to maximize kingdom growth; it helps in the early days to really 'kickstart' the development of the kingdom, and Loyalty and Stability are easy-enough to maximize through building choices/kingdom upgrades/judicious selection of PCs and NPCs for kingdom rulership roles.

I may like crunching numbers ;-)

@DM Bloodgargler: Will you just be using the 'basic' kingdom-building rules, or the official 3rd-party ones from John Brazer?

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