I will not love this monster or indeed have any positive feelings about it til we stand triumphant atop its dead body.
Anyone else feel like we're sooo close to the end of the chapter?
You are- I expect by 4,500 posts we'll be done with the chapter 1 game thread.
Not sure if Alex is having trouble with his internet or is Alex waiting on one of us? And this bounces our thread into consciousness again ... :)
Internet woes. I can make posts from my phone for playing but DMing requires my laptop and internet access. Fingers crossed I'll be able to update in the early hours tonight
No worries, AK. We're coming into a holiday weekend here in the US, anyway.
In other threads Alex flagged not being able to post until the 12th I think.
OK Guys, not anything about this game however I'm just about to start GMing a real life group and one of my players is going for the following build...Now I know he thinks its gonna be quite powerful, but really it won't..however I just want to make sure I get the right judgements when I get to discuss why it won't work...
Rogue 1/Monk 2...Human...
So he gets Flurry of Blows..
Feats: Deflect Arrows, Throw Anything, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.
His weapon of choice is a siangham, which he intends to throw..
What he thinks is that he can hold 6 sianghams in his off hand, well actually a load more, because they are only 3lbs. Now I really don't think he can do this, he will say he's holding multiple sianghams in his offhand not as weapons and can therefore move them to his main hand, so he can keep throwing them. Interested to hear what you guys have to say about this?
My take on drawing weapons is that the rules for melee weapons apply, so he can draw a max of 2 weapons as a move action, so as a standard action he may then only make one attack...as you need a full round action to make multiple attacks..that means use of Flurry and Rapid Shot. I would also say that moving the weapon from one hand to the other is the same as drawing a weapon.
His tactic for V3, which the GM allowed was for a full round action to throw all his weapons from 10ft, then 5ft back and keep doing that sort of thing.
I know with the current build selection, he will get -4 for throwing into melee, (which he hasn't realised yet) and -2 for every 10ft. which will negate most of what he does and I can do other things too. Just wanted a second opinion, that I'm interpreting the rules correctly with all this. I know most of you GM too, so thought it good to get your take.
I hate power gamers always looking to stretch the rules as much as possible. I know he'll just keep going on that he can do it...ugh!! Not to mention he thinks V3 and beyond isn't real D&D, but that's a different issue.
The toon has been withdrawn, because it doesn't work the way the player thought it would, slightly disgruntled, in fact even more disgruntled when I say he won't be able to use ranged weapons for flanking, just for when dex is denied the target...
Oh well!!
OK...he's disputing that...
So re-read flanking...Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.
It doesn't discount flanking with ranged weapons, it can be interpreted as you don't get the +2 bonus, but a rogue does get the sneak damage...
So where does is say that you must be in melee to flank an opponent, I thought some where it talked about you had to threaten the square to get flanking...you help always accepted.
Oh and can a Flurry of Blows gain the sneak attack bonus?
On page 197 of the Core Rulebook it says:
"Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. Creatures with a reach of 0 can't flank an opponent."
On page 180 of the Core Rulebook it says:
"Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack..."
By definition ranged weapons do not threaten, if you do not threaten you can not complete the flank.
Honestly your answer was in your statement: "When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."
Sneak attacking with a ranged weapon has always been difficult. In order to get his sneak attack damage off, his target will need to flat-footed or otherwise denied his DEX.
If it is a melee flurry of blows, or if the opponent is denied DEX yes, sneak attack and flurry of blows can certainly work together.
You do not threaten with a ranged weapon therefore you do not flank.
Edit: Nice ninja :)
Thanks guys
I have always played it the way you said and took it the way it's written as When making a melee attack, but I could interpret the when making a melee attack you get a +2 flanking bonus, when making ranged you don't get the +2 bonus. In both cases the enemy is threatened by someone in melee with the enemy on the opposite square. Obviously the guy in melee doesn't get the flanking bonus. Slightly lawyer-ish...but if comes back with that...
I will rule the normal way the game is played, to flank is to melee.
OK..the player is not accepting that he can't flank from range as a rogue...
Jeez, I want to hit my head on the wall...
...bloody power gamers...I'm gonna kill him with skills, teach him to take 7 on Int....or maybe use his charisma to his advantage, that another 7...and he wants to put points into Use magic Device, but, he'll never be able to use anything with much of a wizard spell level, might be OK with divine, has 10 in wisdom...
forgive my ranting....
Deevor: FAQ answer from Jason Bulmahn stating that flanking is melee only
I love you ... thanks for this ... hopefully my headache will disappear now.
kiss kiss kiss
Deevor: FAQ answer from Jason Bulmahn stating that flanking is melee onlyI love you ... thanks for this ... hopefully my headache will disappear now.
kiss kiss kiss
Honestly, sounds like the kind of player who will find a way to give you a headache, no matter what. But glad I could help!
I really, REALLY need to get better at dealing damage of some sort. Sorry, guys. I feel like that's another party member lost because I can't legitimately contribute to the damage output.
Or do jack-all about blindness. As time goes on, Life Oracle seems less and less useful. *sigh*
1-4 are very difficult levels for Oracles generally in my experience- your almost there :). The nature of this isle and its inhabitants has also been unkind to you.
Gwen, its not all about dealing damage, I feel like that too sometimes, but I'm glad your with us, we still need you. The life line thing is really useful and helpful to us.
Please begin to think about backup characters in case of PC death ;). No one will be getting a surprise round on anybody so feel free to indulge any questions you have before getting down to business. We're at the final fight of the chapter team, so give it your all.
I really, REALLY need to get better at dealing damage of some sort. Sorry, guys. I feel like that's another party member lost because I can't legitimately contribute to the damage output.
Or do jack-all about blindness. As time goes on, Life Oracle seems less and less useful. *sigh*
Funny Gwen's been getting better and better in my eyes :)
Not having much utility with the few spells seems to be the main bummer but that should really start to improve with every level.
I really really hope I didn't wreck anyone's plans for parlay. Marcus is just not going to allow a spellcaster any more time to talk than absolutely necessary. We can take her alive, totally don't mind if he gets overruled there. Just want to question her with her tied up and preferably with her arms cut off.
I really really hope I didn't wreck anyone's plans for parlay. Marcus is just not going to allow a spellcaster any more time to talk than absolutely necessary. We can take her alive, totally don't mind if he gets overruled there. Just want to question her with her tied up and preferably with her arms cut off.
Lol it would have gone into init as soon as she had started casting anyway.
I was thinking mage, maybe suggestion or a spell-like.
Overthinking it maybe.
In any event it seemed perfectly in line with marcus' frustrated state.
I just feel bad if I ruined anyone else's preference because I posted first.
Tun'ada is a ranger/barbarian that claws and bites his opponents, do you really think that he would want to talk? ;)
Heh!
Heres hoping Gwen can get a good initiative roll and dust those skeletons.
Chi has been itching to get some sort of revenge on Ieana the b*tch who stranded them on this island. So parlay, I don't think so...
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I started fist pumping when that will save came up a 20. My office roomate is looking at me very strangely...
Well, my initiative roll was fine... but I've becomed accustomed enough to AK's descriptive style to know an unhallowed area when I see one. Healing and channelling to harm undead is likely to be nigh-ineffectual here (which, obviously, makes me nigh-useless).
You did miss the life link on Chi and Marcus, in active effects, AK.
Maybe. Although I did just get a wizard spell so it would have to be a holdover from the previous vampire god worshippers. If so it should only improve save DCs against channel and provide prot good. Assuming the skellies aren't uber you've still got some chance of popping them with a channel, should get all with 2.
Am I missing something nasty that would affect healing? (not that Marcus would know anything about that)
Thanks Gwen, i'll note down the life link on my next update. Not going to confirm or deny the existence of an unhallow effect in the room, but unless Gwen has reason to believe there might be one I wouldn't let it affect your action.
Your up btw Gwen.
I know, I was pondering what to do. There were several legitimate options. I went with what you seemed to be rooting for me to do.
I was but only mentioned because it seemed the most likely tbh. Didn't want to be taken as telling you what to do.
Not taken that way - it was certainly one of the options.
For the record, I am (as always) extremely worried about this encounter.
I am generally worried whenever the DM precedes a fight by saying "you should be thinking of replacement characters".
But I'm feeling a whole lot better after making a DC 19 will save and not say going to full attack town on Gwen, Chi or Ambroze :)
I am already statting clerics in my head. I love when the DM says that! I love playing in tough games. I love AK because he lets me do so.
I'm just worried, is all. Things could go South here pretty quickly. So what do you think that hole in the ceiling is for? I'm guessing something pretty terrible's going to happen in 1d4+1 rounds.
I am already statting clerics in my head. I love when the DM says that! I love playing in tough games. I love AK because he lets me do so.
I'm just worried, is all. Things could go South here pretty quickly.
Marcus' odds of making that save weren't great, things would be a hell of a lot worse if he made that. So far, advantage team good guys.
I am already statting clerics in my head. I love when the DM says that! I love playing in tough games. I love AK because he lets me do so.
I'm just worried, is all. Things could go South here pretty quickly. So what do you think that hole in the ceiling is for? I'm guessing something pretty terrible's going to happen in 1d4+1 rounds.
Well I for one hope you get to stay an oracle (life link so good). Dibbs on a wizard if we TPK though :)
I was thinking our goblin killing amorphous friend might drop down through the hole for an extra go. We have managed to wound it a bit and managed immunity from its confusion so hopefully that wouldn't be too bad. We've got the slaying arrow and the javelin of lightning if we need to kill it quickly.
Yes. Sooo glad I made that save particularly after all that talk about prot evil and then not having it up. We've been collectively average at having our buffs in place before big fights but then we haven't had much warning (flying beastie being the exception) and its not very easy to tell. I kind of figured we'd have a few more encounters.
Unfortunately taking 2 levels of rogue has rather under powered the arcane magic available to Chi, but under the circumstances I do believe that those levels(skills/abilities) are required. I think there may be quite a few traps in this AP, we've had plenty so far. Of all the games I'm playing in, this is the one I hope we continue with together, its real fun. Just hoping that we don't go down the TPK route, but then that's defeatists talk...
As for the hole, well it'll be very dramatic for a swarm of snakes to suddenly cascade out of it...very Indiana Jones...
Sound Burst! Can't say I was expecting that. Tough save for the squishies.
I don't think we need to get too worried about tpking just yet. We've got spare consumables and plenty of resources. No dominate, Ambroze got his naturalist off. I have faith in us.
Wow. Yarzoth's viper is just as dangerous as Ambroze when it comes to critical hits (actually, the viper is more dangerous - since it has poison...).
The whole gibbering mouther - confusion episode really illustrated to me how ineffective Ambroze is as a melee combatant. I imagine his most effective contributions in melee will be as a flanker and/or using the Aid Another action.
Wow. Yarzoth's viper is just as dangerous as Ambroze when it comes to critical hits (actually, the viper is more dangerous - since it has poison...).
The whole gibbering mouther - confusion episode really illustrated to me how ineffective Ambroze is as a melee combatant. I imagine his most effective contributions in melee will be as a flanker and/or using the Aid Another action.
Yup, i've been thinking about this for some time. Generally your most effective actions will be spells and performances, Ambroze is not really set up as a combatant- although he could pick up a heavy crossbow for when times are hard.
Ambroze has made so little use of his weapon finesse feat that i'm willing to let you swap it out for something you feel you can justify having picked up on Smugglers Shiv- have a think about it and you can propose the change to me after this fight (if your still alive).
Incidentally, you could potentially have been hit with the Mouther flanking you in this fight, so things on that front actually went ok...
White Oracle needs food badly. White Oracle is about to die.
Soooooo... I need to drop the life links. Problem is, I'm stunned. No immediate action for me. Sooooooo...
Bwahahahahaha.......
What Ambroze doesn't have in melee power he makes up for in buffing. Thats three of us who only made the fort save due to heroism/naturalist :)
Ambroze has made so little use of his weapon finesse feat that i'm willing to let you swap it out for something you feel you can justify having picked up on Smugglers Shiv- have a think about it and you can propose the change to me after this fight (if your still alive).
Thanks AK! I'll definitely take you up on that offer if I survive. With all of the poisons and diseases we've been exposed to, I may switch weapon finesse to great fortitude - I think that would be reasonable to have picked up on Smugglers Shiv. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
Sorry, post above was telling. Only just realised from looking at Ambroze's sheet that the naturalist +1 bonus to saves doesn't apply to creature's spells just abilities (which makes sense). So if that sound burst was a spell not a spell like ability I think I failed the save.