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I agree that we are going to need more reasons to stick together after this, though. I suspect that we may have to lie low together for a while, and that other events may overtake us ...
Yeah, I'm already thinking up possible disguises for Zarabeta. She's got a fairly distinctive look, and they're gonna have her picture up in the Westcrown Post Office under 'wanted dead or alive' by morning. :)
Things crashing at work. Will post as soon as I can. maybe at lunch. maybe not til tomorrow.
No worries, hopefully everything works out and you get all the fires put out!
Well I'll have to find out if this culture can make hair-dye ...
Of course they can. Or can import it. Henna from Vudra? Some who's more Golarion savvy throw us a bone.
Idle thought;
Gosh, you'd think that a Hellknight group calling itself the Order of the Rack would have more girls.
I have a bad feeling that 'the Rack' in this case refers to where the girls go, not what they have.
Naughty.
Naughty.
Well that's why they say they do it ... I have my suspicions.
As an aside, I found a Pathfinder update to Psionics somebody did back in Beta. Don't know if you want to look at it Thom but it is here if you are interested.
As an aside, I found a Pathfinder update to Psionics somebody did back in Beta. Don't know if you want to look at it Thom but it is here if you are interested.
There's also a set of rules that the folks at Dreamscarred Press are working on. You can find the wilder class in this thread, I believe:
http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=717.html
That one is actually better - although the Surge Blast power needs to be limited in uses per day and perhaps toned down in power.
I've placed all those files here if anyone wants to view them. Edit: I don't like their version of the SOulknife, though - if ever a class needed full BAB, it was that.
Would like to look at psionics more (Waifrin's got me interested), but there's no time. I'm not supporting you guys or my other games as much as I'd like. Guess I'm getting spread too thin and should ease off on the quantity of games, for better quality. Not to worry though, I'll be the last one out of this game. Unless "What lies in Dust" (epsiode 3 of the AP) is worse than episode 2.
I like city adventures but epsiode 2 didn't really work for me. I just find it hard to believe anyone would do some of the stuff they expect the PCs to do for a really marginal gain.
No worries. Anything we can do to lighten the load, we will, and if you have to post slower to post better, I strongly support you in doing so.
I concur with the mouse-of-burden above me.
As for the psionic stuff, we never even touched upon such things with my pen-and-paper group (when I used to have one anyway), but I was always curious about it. The conversions seem pretty good in my opinion; at least that is my conclusion after a more-or-less quick look.
Quick question: Would the maps I do make more sense if I placed arrows on to describe where people have moved from or should I just show current positions?
For example does this make more sense than my usual maps?
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Quick question: Would the maps I do make more sense if I placed arrows on to describe where people have moved from or should I just show current positions?
For example does this make more sense than my usual maps?
I think it's cool, if it's no burden on you. We are lucky enough to even have maps, so thanks for that!
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Loving the friction between Akorian and Zarabeta, Neil. Very cool.
I'm glad Akorian is taking a lead here. Out of game, I have a real dislike of the party being led around and told what to do by an NPC (particularly one with the track record that Janiven has had so far!).
Not killing people because it bugs Akorian is no different than having a Paladin in the group and the whole party having to abide by his Code of Conduct as a price to pay for having him there and a part of the whole teamwork / 'plays well with others' / cooperative thing, where you have to take the bad along with the good, and learn to compromise and whatever, but having to abide by Janiven's 'code of conduct' was getting on my nerves.
Clarification; No criticism intended to our DM! Nor even to the adventure writer, I think he/she just failed to account for the PCs wanting to do anything other than what he directs them to do through Janiven. I went and designed a character with a vested interest in joining this revolution and overthrowing the devil-worshipping regime, but because it's not the exact formula he wrote the intro for, it creates the *illusion* that Zarabeta doesn't want in on the action.
I think it's cool, too...though I do wish there was another "heroic"-minded PC in the party. Right now, it feels like Akorian is the one ready to throw on the mantle of "martyr and hero" but everyone else is far more in it for themselves because of the exact reasons Zarabeta gave. We pretty much have to act, lest Arael's interrogation lead the Hellknights to us and we all hang for it. To Akorian, that's not a big deal. He signed over his potential future when he chose to worship Milani. So he's okay with being a martyr for the cause and taking on the challenge for completely altruistic reasons. I think it would be neat if somewhere down the road, though, some of the other characters start to adopt that attitude as well. Maybe not as strong on the martyrdom aspect, of course...but I mean, taking on the powers-that-be for the betterment of Westcrown rather than just saving our own necks.
Hmmm...reading back on all that, I'm not sure that comes across quite like I meant. I'm not criticizing how anyones's playing their PC right now. I think it's all perfectly believable how everyone's reacted to the current circumstances of the characters. Hopefully, no one's too annoyed with Akorian's outlook (or mine) on things.
--Neil
The irony is, others are in it for the whole of Westcrown, they just don't express it as clearly or as nobly as Akorian does. Hopefully this will start to become clearer to him as events progress.
Exactly. Just in terms of the planning put forth by both Marius and Waifrin, that will speak volumes. Great tie-in with Waifrin's seamstress skills and the masks, by the way. ;-)
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Exactly. Just in terms of the planning put forth by both Marius and Waifrin, that will speak volumes. Great tie-in with Waifrin's seamstress skills and the masks, by the way. ;-)
I had forgotten any earlier reference to Waifrin being a seamstress, so it's just amazingly cool. Of course, Zara is off dreaming of metal-clad knights dragging her off to be sacrificed to demons (devils, whatever, she's not real clear on the specifics), so she'll be all surprised in the morning to see the outfits.
Part of the problem with Janiven may be me. I've been trying to keep her low profile because, like Set, I'm not wild about the "NPC tells party what to do" model of adventure design. I also don't like NPCs stealing the limelight which is why (meta-game), despite her being a 4th level fighter and nominal leader in Arael's absence, she hasn't done squat really.
Unfortunately, it looks like the AP clings to this model at least through part 2. Arael tells you to do this; you do that. Most of the rest of part 1 makes pretty good sense however.
Part 2 is a different sack of potatoes. The whole premise of the characters performing the play is different and very cool, but it's not working for me mechanically. Basically Arael tells you doing the play is a good idea, so you do it, despite a high risk/gain ratio. Really, any PC I've ever had would quit the play. It's either too morally objectionable or too stupidly dangerous.
We'll have to talk about whether we want to just bag it or not. I can think of a couple ways to get actually having to perform the play if that's what you want to do. But that's a conversation for later.
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Part of the problem with Janiven may be me. I've been trying to keep her low profile because, like Set, I'm not wild about the "NPC tells party what to do" model of adventure design. I also don't like NPCs stealing the limelight which is why (meta-game), despite her being a 4th level fighter and nominal leader in Arael's absence, she hasn't done squat really.
Jinkies! I've been regarding her as a commoner with pretentions of grandeur! :)
Unfortunately, it looks like the AP clings to this model at least through part 2. Arael tells you to do this; you do that. Most of the rest of part 1 makes pretty good sense however.
Arael has been described as some sort of 'living saint' or something, so him I was expecting to actually have PC class levels!
... and there was me thinking this craft skill would be almost redundant. Waifrin's already thought of a symbol - a rose for the Everbloom.
Part 2 is a different sack of potatoes. The whole premise of the characters performing the play is different and very cool, but it's not working for me mechanically. Basically Arael tells you doing the play is a good idea, so you do it, despite a high risk/gain ratio. Really, any PC I've ever had would quit the play. It's either too morally objectionable or too stupidly dangerous.
I have to admit that I'm a little skeptical at the idea of having adventurers perform a play. It sounds great for a one-off game, though.
Guys, sorry about the lack of posting this weekend and yesterday. I was helping build a new playground in town. The turnout was so low I had to go both days for long hours. We got the concrete poured Sunday afternoon. We're going to be spreading mulch for the next week or so. No one can come during the day and it gets dark early now. I'll probably end up out there again next weekend.
Dabbler, since the party has settled on the bridge ambush, can you work up something like this? if possible widen the areas on the sides of the road somewhat. Your map can use 10x10 or 15x15 squares to keep it simpler.
hogarth, agreed, the play would make a fun unusual one-off. Question for the group is, do you want to do it? As written you end up doing it 3 times -- audition, sneak peek, and performance. I would do the rehearsals off-screen. The play consists of characters, loudly proclaiming their innocence and the justice of their cause undergoing trial by combat, or fire or whatever.
We're still a long way from part 2 , but if I'm going to rewrite the first half of it I will need days or weeks.
Two questions:
Terrain surrounding the bridge is?
How wide is the bridge? From my own experience I would say a Roman - medieval bridge would be about ten feet wide.
Now about the play ... what if the characters have personal reasons for taking part, outside of the plot? A few hooks there may well be interesting ...
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Akorian..might think he's the only noble minded character..but then Marius hasn't really had a chance to shine..(partly my fault usually I'm to busy to post huge screeds of Andoran propoganda..this might change..especially once the Andoran book hits my Paizo PDF folder)
As for the play..I've read the script and skimmed the play scenes itself and boy thats a lot of talking ...Thom you did a great job on the lead into CoCT do you think you could do the same here because I feel the play is much more suited to a table top session than PbP.In addition there's a distinct chance of a TP so unless we have have no option..ie we do it to prevent the certain death of innocents..I'm in the no camp.
Is this big enough? I can exp[and it to either side or top and bottom, but it'd just be more of the same. I've assumed that the ground will scorch out where it is cleared in Westcrown's climate, but around the stream will be very lush.
Plain green = grassy ground
Dark green leaves = shrubs (some cover)
Dark brown leaves = scrub
Set, regarding the Mount and Combat. Brilliant idea, but Neil made my points for me in the game thread. It would totally outgun Summon I. In general I wouldn't count on it as a combatant. The description leads me to think the mount is an extraordinarily placid, well-mannered ride. It will defend itself if attacked. With an appropriate ride check, you may be able to do a sort of overrun attack, in which the horse shoulders aside an opponent. You certainly can't tell it to go there and attack that. (Although perhaps with speak with animals and some diplomacy or intimidation ...)
Dabbler, I assume you used 10x10 squares? I agree 10 or 15' wide bridge is good. Maybe 30-40' long. The stream should be at least 20' wide plus banks, otherwise the horses will jump it too easily. Map size depends somewhat on your tactics, we should probably have 3 or 4 crossbow range increments each way from the the bridge along the road. You can put heavy vegetation 2 range increments to either side of the road.
I really like your idea about vegetation location. Makes good sense. I plan on interpreting thusly: shrubs - cover and difficult terrain.
scrub -- difficult terrain no cover
grass -- regular movement, no cover.
You may want to thin out the scrub accordingly.
I hope that's not too picky. I do appreciate the maps very much.
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With an appropriate ride check, you may be able to do a sort of overrun attack, in which the horse shoulders aside an opponent.
That makes sense, and that's really what she was thinking, having them do unorthodox things like slamming into them to try to knock foes down (trip attack) to just keep the Hellknights bowled over.
But she's no rider, and the light horses can't attack with a rider anyway, so that's a no go. Charm person will also be useless (+5 save in this sort of situation), so she'll go with color sprays.
Dabbler, I assume you used 10x10 squares? I agree 10 or 15' wide bridge is good.
OK, I was using 5' squares.
Maybe 30-40' long. The stream should be at least 20' wide plus banks, otherwise the horses will jump it too easily.
I can widen the stream, not a problem.
Map size depends somewhat on your tactics, we should probably have 3 or 4 crossbow range increments each way from the the bridge along the road. You can put heavy vegetation 2 range increments to either side of the road.
Will do. I'll widen the map to do this.
I really like your idea about vegetation location. Makes good sense. I plan on interpreting thusly: shrubs - cover and difficult terrain.
scrub -- difficult terrain no cover
grass -- regular movement, no cover.You may want to thin out the scrub accordingly.
I hope that's not too picky. I do appreciate the maps very much.
Not at all. I will be moving house this weekend, so I'll get this done ASAP, and then leave it with you guys.
OK, here is a VERY big map! I have reduced the size but the squares are 5x5' still, and we should be about two range increments from one end to the other.
Dabbler, very cool. We'll go with that.
Thank you! OOC (because Waifrin isn't that tactically minded yet, although she may learn) there are three primary areas where a group of ambushers could lie in wait:
- On either side of the bridge, on the north side of the river - close to where we want to stop the auto de fe. Disadvantage is the attackers would be disbursed and retreat would be difficult because of the scrub.
- On the south side of the stream. This is further away but with the bridge blocked it is very safe. Disadvantage is that from here the Hellknights will not be able to give chase.
- In the north-east, around 52-LL. This small patch surrounded by shrubs and the odd tree could conceal attackers who would be able top retreat quickly if they had horses.
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Man, I was all psyched to think that perhaps Zarabeta could attack with her Acid Darts at a horseman's saddle strap, making him risk Ride checks to stay on his horse with an unsecured saddle.
But it looks like acid damage doesn't ignore hardness in Pathfinder, (and in fact does half damage to objects!), and the strap would have Hardness 2 and 5 hp/inch thickness. Her 1d6 damage just isn't gonna cut the mustard here...
And I was actually worried about *missing* the darn thing. Those rules (AC 10 + size modifier -7 for being a Dex 0 inanimate object) make it an easy shot at AC 5 for her ranged touch attack.
Reminder to self; The dove-engraved crossbow is locate object bait. Warn Raven to sell it or swap it for one that's not so distinctive later.
Actually, Akorian has the crossbow at the moment. Come to think of it, Zarabeta will probably find it quite delightful to talk to him about the locate object thingy. :-)
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Actually, Akorian has the crossbow at the moment. Come to think of it, Zarabeta will probably find it quite delightful to talk to him about the locate object thingy. :-)
Oh hell no, she's poked that bear enough for now. :)
While Zarabeta could go on for hours, eventually I will metagame and stop antagonizing the only source of healing in the room.
Man, I was all psyched to think that perhaps Zarabeta could attack with her Acid Darts at a horseman's saddle strap, making him risk Ride checks to stay on his horse with an unsecured saddle.
But it looks like acid damage doesn't ignore hardness in Pathfinder, (and in fact does half damage to objects!), and the strap would have Hardness 2 and 5 hp/inch thickness. Her 1d6 damage just isn't gonna cut the mustard here...
And I was actually worried about *missing* the darn thing. Those rules (AC 10 + size modifier -7 for being a Dex 0 inanimate object) make it an easy shot at AC 5 for her ranged touch attack.
Reminder to self; The dove-engraved crossbow is locate object bait. Warn Raven to sell it or swap it for one that's not so distinctive later.
Dude, always check with me. This an an excellent idea, as so many of yours are. I completely agree it should be possible. In my book 1d6 = short sword type damage = could cut a normal saddle's belly strap. Don't expect to get it too easy however. The AC would be a lot higher than 5. It's a tiny target, moving fast with partial cover from the rider's leg and stirrup. And possibly you're riding too. AC 15-23 depending, (to be worked out later) if you hit roll 1d6 for damage.
And, thanks for the crossbow idea. I should have thought of that myself.
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Dude, always check with me. This an an excellent idea, as so many of yours are. I completely agree it should be possible. In my book 1d6 = short sword type damage = could cut a normal saddle's belly strap. Don't expect to get it too easy however. The AC would be a lot higher than 5. It's a tiny target, moving fast with partial cover from the rider's leg and stirrup. And possibly you're riding too. AC 15-23 depending, (to be worked out later) if you hit roll 1d6 for damage.
That was pretty much my exact thought. It should take less damage, but be harder to hit. (Before looking it up, I had speculated 3 damage and 16 to hit, which would be do-able by Zarabeta, but not easy. I was surprised to see it was more like 7 damage and 5 to hit!)
My own completely made-up thought was that the strap would have hardness 2, and 2 or 3 hit points, but that the acid would ignore hardness (where the hell I got that idea, I have no idea, it certainly isn't in the rules...), but that the AC would be based on 10 + size modifier (tiny +2) with a -4 penalty to the attack roll for attacking a target that's in another persons square (which could be negated with Precise Shot, assuming I wasn't playing a Wizard, who has no such feat).
The +5 bonus for Dex 0 would only count to an unattended item that isn't moving, which a strap on the underside of a moving horse would *definitely* not count as!
Ideally, in a fight against horsemen in armor, knocking them down would be the best short-term tactic, particularly with our current goal of not actually hurting them. Once on the ground, the hoi-polloi can dogpile them (which will prevent them from using any weapon bigger than a dagger) and we can tie them up, strip them to their underwear (especially of their boots!) and leave them with embarassing designs painted on their faces. Yanno, like they do in the movies. :)
Bonus points if one of them is found with 'Now I have a crossbow, ho ho ho' written on his tabard.
And, thanks for the crossbow idea. I should have thought of that myself.
Note to self; less notes to self where the DM can see them. :)
I will point out to those interested in knocking men off horses that we have any number of TREES and a good supply of ROPE.
Group A: Launches diversionary attack, flees as they pursue, catches them with old rope-between-two-trees trick, makes good getaway.
Group B: Attacks to free prisoner while those that chased Group A waste time picking themselves up, chasing horses etc.
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I will point out to those interested in knocking men off horses that we have any number of TREES and a good supply of ROPE.
Group A: Launches diversionary attack, flees as they pursue, catches them with old rope-between-two-trees trick, makes good getaway.
Group B: Attacks to free prisoner while those that chased Group A waste time picking themselves up, chasing horses etc.
Hot idea. Very 'classic' as well!
Set, just read your 6 undead from one corpse thread. That was awesome! (And thrifty, too!)
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Set, just read your 6 undead from one corpse thread. That was awesome! (And thrifty, too!)
Thanks! I'm a cheap date, it's true. Waste causes me pain. :)
I run mostly lower-level games (we lose interest around 8th level, it seems), so I needed more lower level undead for my Hollowfaust-centric game, and the notion seemed fun, and thematic for a necromancer who wanted to make herself immortal one bodily system at a time.
I will point out to those interested in knocking men off horses that we have any number of TREES and a good supply of ROPE.
Group A: Launches diversionary attack, flees as they pursue, catches them with old rope-between-two-trees trick, makes good getaway.
Group B: Attacks to free prisoner while those that chased Group A waste time picking themselves up, chasing horses etc.
plus a good scattering of caltrops in the grass in front of the area they appear in.
If we had time..which we won't I'd have suggested we dig a couple of pot traps in as well..you dig a hole put a pot in it cover it with a small layer of earth and leaves..horse comes along pot smashes and the horses foot goes down into the sharp shards..used with great effect at the Battle of Bannockburn
And yeh that was an EEEEEEEVVILLLLL thread Set..just what I'd expect from the oldest evil god around
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If we had time..which we won't I'd have suggested we dig a couple of pot traps in as well..you dig a hole put a pot in it cover it with a small layer of earth and leaves..horse comes along pot smashes and the horses foot goes down into the sharp shards..used with great effect at the Battle of Bannockburn
Even a gopher hole can snap a horses leg (although, as a farm boy, I wince at the thought of hurting horses)! I wish there was a low-level excavation spell to exhume or bury people or whatever that could be adapted for quick pit creation.
And yeh that was an EEEEEEEVVILLLLL thread Set..just what I'd expect from the oldest evil god around
Did you just call me old? :)
Such bad press Set gets. I blame the Greeks. Also for goat cheese.
If he shows up with no horses or wagon, to inform us that the NPCs who went with you are *also* captives of the town guard, Zarabeta will be even *more* convinced that he's working the other side. :)
So much for the elf's master plan then! *Insert evil yet inconspicuous laughter here*
Such bad press Set gets. I blame the Greeks. Also for goat cheese.
The Greeks? I believe we reserved all of our bad press for Pluto, or Hades, or whatever it is he is called anyways. Mmm, cheese... Though I prefer feta cheese myself! Heh!