Sorry guys. I have been working on this. Mostly wading through the psionics rules, so I haven't been posting here. It's invisible work.
Wellard, the lack of ranged fighter and rogue shouldn't be that big a deal for the first installment of the AP. Besides, if "Moms" is going to pick up some ranger levels it may work out.
Dabbler, the psionics rules are too much to absorb in one or two readings. While trying to sort everything out, I'm looking at the Wilder as a kind of super-focused sorceror.
I am prepared to accept the rules in a playtest mode. I'll tell you what my concerns of the moment are:
Wild surge: the free boost kind of rankles, seems to me if you're going to cast beyond your level you should pay for it. Not sure about the enervation mechanic. It doesn't seem to scale well with level at high levels the power point penalty is nearly negligible.
Power points: I like the idea of power points, having dabbled in a magic point system before. I'm not at all sure I like the power point progression, however. Sometimes seems too much; sometimes too little. Also I seriously dislike the sudden steps in power. (Forgot my notes at home so these numbers are not exact) A couple specific examples -- at first level the baseline is 2 powers/day seems a little weak. At third level the PC is potentially casting 11 spells. Way outstrips the other casting classes in terms of number. I realize that wilder's spell selection is significantly limited, and sometimes you'll be casting augmented spells but it's still hard to justify 11 spells. At tenth level, the wilder can suddenly jump from zero sixth level spells to 9 sixth level spells. ( Or 88 first level spells.) I'd like to cap the number of "top level" powers you can cast at maybe 5 when you first gain access to higher level powers. Gradual progression rather than step-change seems more organic to me. Again I'll admit that I'm having a hard time balancing the one trick pony against more frequent castings.
Powers: Some seem really good for their level. Some seem under-powered. I'm not at all sure about balance. At first level energy ray (like magic missile) feels a little like an over-achiever compared to other first level spells. Because you pick your energy-type at casting, it's almost like 4 spells in one. The fact you need a ranged touch attack balances it.
Autohypnosis: that's a whole lot of utilitarian goodness wrapped in one first level accessible package. It's really like 5 skills in one. I'm kind of surprised people aren't dipping into wilder just to acquire it.
I still have to look at the Pathfinder Conversion. Anyone, please feel free to chime in too.
hmm no ranged fighters and no rogue...this should be an interesting party mix.
Mother Vangelis will be a ranged combat style ranger (in addition to having a few grapple feats); at level 3 I'm planning on having Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot.
I'm also thinking of taking Disable Device and Perception and Stealth, so she should be sort-of roguish.
therealthom, in my opinion most psionic powers are pretty reasonable. For instance, Energy Ray -- 1d6+1 damage as a ranged touch attack is pretty reasonable for a 1 pp power (= 1st level spell equivalent) and 7d6+7 damage is pretty reasonable for a 7 pp power (= 4th level spell equivalent). There are some exceptions, though (e.g. Ego Whip does Cha damage, so it can easily knock out a tough enemy with repeated applications).
I love psionics, but I'm not sure it's worth trying to learn a whole new magic system when a wilder can be pretty closely approximated by a sorcerer (IMO, maybe using the "Battle Sorcerer" variant from Unearthed Arcana for a better attack bonus and the ability to cast in armor).
Well, the ability to cast in armor could be easily acquired with the Arcane Armor Training feat, though it does take a swift action to "activate" it.
Edit: Nevermind, I had forgotten it has Light Armor Proficiency and caster level 3rd as prerequisites... Heh...
Having played and DMed these rules a while, I'll go over your points with you:
Dabbler, the psionics rules are too much to absorb in one or two readings. While trying to sort everything out, I'm looking at the Wilder as a kind of super-focused sorceror.
In essence, yes.
Wild surge: the free boost kind of rankles, seems to me if you're going to cast beyond your level you should pay for it. Not sure about the enervation mechanic. It doesn't seem to scale well with level at high levels the power point penalty is nearly negligible.
I've found in play that it works well. You lose one per point per wilder level, not per level of the surge. So at 20th level, you lose 20 power points. Plus you are dazed for a full round (effectively, you cannot act for one round although you aren't as vulnerable as being stunned or paralysed). It's enough to make you hesitate to use it, unless you need it.
Power points: I like the idea of power points, having dabbled in a magic point system before. I'm not at all sure I like the power point progression, however. Sometimes seems too much; sometimes too little. Also I seriously dislike the sudden steps in power. (Forgot my notes at home so these numbers are not exact) A couple specific examples -- at first level the baseline is 2 powers/day seems a little weak. At third level the PC is potentially casting 11 spells. Way outstrips the other casting classes in terms of number. I realize that wilder's spell selection is significantly limited, and sometimes you'll be casting augmented spells but it's still hard to justify 11 spells. At tenth level, the wilder can suddenly jump from zero sixth level spells to 9 sixth level spells. ( Or 88 first level spells.) I'd like to cap the number of "top level" powers you can cast at maybe 5 when you first gain access to higher level powers. Gradual progression rather than step-change seems more organic to me. Again I'll admit that I'm having a hard time balancing the one trick pony against more frequent castings.
This is a common comment, but let's take the example of the Energy Ray:
At 3rd level, you have 11 power points. So you can generate 11 energy rays, each doing 1d6+1 damage. If you were a sorcerer, you could only turn out 5 first level spells ... but those spells would do (for example) 3d4 for Burning Hands or 2d4+2 for magic missile. To match that, you would have to expend 2-3 points per energy ray - which leaves you with about five uses per day. Some powers are not augmentable, but these tend to be the equivalent of 0-level spells (for example, Detect Psionics, Far Hand etc.). Remember our 3rd level sorcerer has access to as many 0-level casts a day as he likes. The Wilder has none, he has to pay for each power he uses.
At tenth level, the wilder has 6 powers (basic, he can get more with the feat Extra Power), maximum of 5th level, and 88 power points. Bear in mind, though, that he has to pay for a scaled-up 3rd level power as if it were a 5th-level power. For example, Fireball from a 10th level sorcerer does 10d6 damage. To match this, Energy Ball (a 4th level power) has to be augmented to cost 10 power points. In theory he can go nova and dish out as many of these as he can ... and then he has nothing. Zip. Nada. Your sorcerer can only throw six 10d6 fireballs, but then he has five 4th level spells, 6 each of second and first level spells ...
In short, a Wilder is like a sprinter compared to the sorcerer's middle-distance runner: he can go faster, but only in short bursts.
Don't forget, though, that the psionic classes get bonus points for high stats just as spell-casters get bonus spells.
Powers: Some seem really good...
The powers tend to be more flexible than their spell counterparts, but the psion and the wilder get less of them (the wilder gets very few at all).
The conversion is just a brief hack I did based on the Conversion Guide, there is so far no official PF conversion for the psionics system.
Playing the wilder is a matter of choosing the right powers: To get the most of the wild-surge you have to select augmentable powers, and you get very few of them - even with the 'Educated' variant from the Mind's Eye you get a total of only fifteen powers. As such the blaster concept is a good choice - there isn't room for much subtlety, though. This means that most powers will be damaging/offensive, or protective/defensive.
Edit: While not being hampered by armour may sound good, in practice a low strength score, needing to spend a feat on armour proficiency etc. take the buzz out of it. It's not a road I plan to go down, although I'll happily use light armour that doesn't weigh me down. I've found in practice that powers work better anyway.
If this is too much hassle though, Thom, I'll switch classes. I don't want to throw so much on your shoulders that you can't give everyone a good game!
If it helps...(and I'm not sure it does, since Dabbler already professed his interest in running a wilder over a sorcerer)...I started putting together the rudiments for a new sorcerer bloodline. I'm tentatively calling it a Psionic Bloodline.
In essence, it manifests because someone in the sorcerer's family tree had access to psionics. Their genetics have sort of crossed up the psionic energy with the sorcerer's innate arcane spellpower. It's very raw right now and hasn't been playtested. But maybe it could provide a viable alternative to produce a "psionic" type of character without introducing full-bore psionics into a game.
At some point in your family's history, one of your relatives manifested psionic abilities. Though you failed to inherit these innate powers yourself, some spark of mental mastery fuels your arcane talent as well.
Class Skill: Sense Motive
Bonus Spells: hypnotism (3rd), detect thoughts (5th), clairaudience/clairvoyance (7th), phantasmal killer (9th), telepathic bond (11th), mass suggestion (13th), vision (15th), mind blank (17th), dominate monster (19th)
Bonus Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the compulsion subschool, increase the spell's DC by +2
Bloodline Powers: Your magic benefits from the latent psionic energy of your mind, growing more potent as you gain levels.
Hand of the Psion (Su) - At 1st level, you can cause a melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Charisma modifier to the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Mental Resistance (Ex) - At 3rd level, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantments and illusions. At 9th level, your bonus on saving throws against enchantments and illusions increases to +4.
Psychic Scream (Sp) - At 9th level, you can unleash a psychic scream empowered with psionic energy once per day. This 30-foot cone-shaped burst does 1d6 points of damage for every 2 sorcerer levels (maximum 10d6) and deafens creatures in its path for 4d6 rounds. Those caught in the area of your blast receive a Fortitude save. A successful save negates the deafness and reduces the damage by half. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. At 9th level, you can use this ability once per day. At 17th level, you can use this ability twice per day. At 20th level, you can use this ability three times per day.
Willful Magic - At 15th level, you can increase the potency of your spells with the power of your mind, allowing you to reroll any caster level check to overcome spell resistance. You must decide to use this ability before the results are revealed by the GM. You must take the second result even if it is worse. You can use this ability at will.
Transcendant Mind (Su) - At 20th level, you gain immunity to all mind-affecting effects and the ability to communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. Once per day, you can cast astral projection as a spell-like ability using your sorcerer level as your caster level.
Regardless of whether this sees play or not, it does look interesting methinks.
Isn't, however, the 15th level ability being used at will a bit too much? Though I suppose the fact that you do not choose the better result but the second one, even if it is worse, does perhaps balance it out...
I do hope I am not intruding by the way, just thought to give an opinion after seeing the bloodline.
Isn't, however, the 15th level ability being used at will a bit too much? Though I suppose the fact that you do not choose the better result but the second one, even if it is worse, does perhaps balance it out...
Good question. But it's an exact copy of the 15th level bloodline power from the Fey bloodline for their potent Fey Magic. So, I'll trust Jason has it properly balanced for play.
Oops... Once again I missed something. Either I need to study the Rulebook a bit better or lack of roleplaying has made me rusty.
Meh, we all do that!
Thanks for the work, NSpicer. If I can't do her as a wilder I'll keep your idea in mind. She'd also make a good streetwise rogue or bard, I'll wait and see what our DM decides.
Cool!
And, in the event that the third time's the charm, I'll say again that a Bard would be ideal for this adventure path. In a major, major way...
8-)
Dabbler -- All right. I'll bite the bullet and you can go Wilder. I'll even give you a free bonus. A kind of imperfect detect psionics -- mechanics TBD by me later. Just hope there's no illithids lurking in the city. Psionics are extremely rare, you haven't met one so far. If you've consulted wizards or sorcerors about your powers :
Guys, I won't be able to vet your characters until I get back from vacation. (Stupid to begin a game just before a leave.) But we can get into the roleplay before the characters are fully checked. I will post a link to the game thread here on Wednesday night next week.
F. Castor, you've been a good sport. I can stretch this to six players. Please, for my sanity choose something core.
Thank you!
I'll try to reflect this in my choices of powers and skills - for example I won't take Autohypnosis, as there has simply been nobody to teach Waifrin in any way. I'll also restrict her knowledge of psionics to what little she has worked out for herself. In fact, Waifrin may well worry that her powers are some kind of demonic taint ...
Thanks mate! I appreciate the chance.
Well, I was thinking of playing a rather easy-going easy-to-smile elven rogue. This should also free up our resident ranger in regards to skill choices, right Mrs. Vangelis? Probably going to be a shadowdancer if that is alright -provided he survives that long anyway. Heh...
I assume we get to choose character traits from the Pathfinder RPG Character Traits PDF and from the Council of Thieves Player's Guide, two in total?
If I am not able to have all of him ready for you today -I have to go to work in a couple of hours- he should nevertheless be ready for you to inspect once you return on Wednesday. I hope that is alright...
Stat rolls (without the racial bonuses and penalties) are here.
This should also free up our resident ranger in regards to skill choices, right Mrs. Vangelis?
Sure, although I'm not sure I can think of 8 (or 9) skills from the ranger skill list that tickle my fancy. :-)
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I've used 20 pt buy for Zarabeta (and average starting wealth).
If I use roll 4d6 (drop lowest) and random roll starting wealth, she ends up with Str 11, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 18 (after the +2 for being human) and Cha 14, but 10 less gold pieces.
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2238881/
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2238885/
I'd be fine sticking with the 20 pt. buy if those numbers seem a little crazy. :)
Those rolled stats don't seem that different to the rest of ours, to be fair. All of us seem to have a stat in the 18-20 range, one or two on the 15-16 range and rest 10-14.
All of us seem to have a stat in the 18-20 range, one or two on the 15-16 range and rest 10-14.
Uhm...I beg to differ. :-)
I'd be fine sticking with the 20 pt. buy if those numbers seem a little crazy. :)
Well, you did roll them though.
Now I remember why I prefer point-buy, I'm usually the one that rolls like that ... no, actually, I usually roll worse than that!
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Now I remember why I prefer point-buy, I'm usually the one that rolls like that ... no, actually, I usually roll worse than that!
I have such a reputation for awful dice rolling that all sorts of special rules were made for me, back in the pre-point-buy days.
"If Ian rolls a 1, he gets a coin. He can redeem that coin later to cancel out another 1 rolled." (It basically halved the amount of botches I got during a game. Sometimes I'd feel that a 1 wasn't worth spending a coin to cancel, and end up with 3 coins stacked up 'for later.')
"If Ian's stat rolls don't result in a net modifier of +1 or higher, he can say 'mulligan' and roll over." (As in, at least *one* stat has to be 12+, and the number of -1's I get can't be equal to or greater than the number of +1s I get!)
That stat roll was anomalous, to the point of freaking me out a little. I'm usually the V&V player who ends up with a single super-power, in a group with someone with gravity control, flight, super-strength, invulnerability and magic spells...
That stat roll was anomalous, to the point of freaking me out a little. I'm usually the V&V player who ends up with a single super-power, in a group with someone with gravity control, flight, super-strength, invulnerability and magic spells...
"Hey guys, I got Revivification! And that's it!"
which is why I always preferred Champions or DC Universe/DC Heroes or Silver Age Sentinels for my Superhero games
I recommend combining point buy mechanics and Superworld, by Chaosium. Way simpler than Champions, but every bit as flexible.
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which is why I always preferred Champions or DC Universe/DC Heroes or Silver Age Sentinels for my Superhero games
Once we stopped doing random character generation, it was much more fun (especially with open-description 'make your own' powers like Mutant Power, Body Power or whatever). M&M2 and GURPS 3rd Supers were more my speed, although Aberrant was pretty neat, too.
Set, may I ask something?
At the risk of sounding -or rather being read- like a nitpicker, foul creatures that they are, am I to understand from Zarabeta's story that she finished her tutelage under her wizard mentor and came to Westcrown at the age of around 10? Just curious is all...
Hah! She really is the brightest witch of her age... :-D
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Set, may I ask something?
At the risk of sounding -or rather being read- like a nitpicker, foul creatures that they are, am I to understand from Zarabeta's story that she finished her tutelage under her wizard mentor and came to Westcrown at the age of around 10? Just curious is all...
Heh, my sentence structures always make so much more sense in my head than they do to anyone who reads them...
10 years ago, her father disappeared in Westcrown. Various trials and tribulations occured back home with her mom and the family business. And now, a decade later, she's finally come to Westcrown, the city that 'ate' her father.
Ah, gotcha!
On a different note, my rogue is finally ready. Everybody, meet Raevanis, a.k.a. "Raven".
Raven, say hello to the rest of the class.
A question on Traits: Do we get one from faction and one from the campaign, or one from our nation of origin and one from the campaign? I'm not sure if I should be selecting a faction and taking a trait from it, or taking one from Cheliax ...
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A question on Traits: Do we get one from faction and one from the campaign, or one from our nation of origin and one from the campaign? I'm not sure if I should be selecting a faction and taking a trait from it, or taking one from Cheliax ...
Typically, it's one campaign, and one of any other type (regional, race, faith, magic, combat, social, faction, etc.).
Reading Raven's write up made me realize that I forgot to come up with three NPC contacts, so those are now added to Zarabeta's profile.
Thanks ... now to make a correction or two ...
which is why I always preferred Champions or DC Universe/DC Heroes or Silver Age Sentinels for my Superhero games
I played a lot of Champions and V&V as a kid, and a tiny bit of DC Heroes and Marvel. V&V is great for one-off games, IMO.
I played in a Silver Age Sentinels game, but I didn't find it did anything better than Mutants & Masterminds, and it did some things worse.
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I played in a Silver Age Sentinels game, but I didn't find it did anything better than Mutants & Masterminds, and it did some things worse.
On the years that I can make it to Origins or GenCon (pref Origins, I just like the layout better), I tend to sign up for as many different games that I've never played before as possible, with a heavy priority towards superhero games. There are so many! And so many suck...
Haven't tried SAS in specific yet, although I did play in an Authority game that used Tri-Stat, only to never get to complete my characters first combat action, because the twits at the table wouldn't shut up (combination of random frothing Authority fanboi players, and a company shill for a DM who spend about 20% of the game showing off the shiny, shiny book and talking about how excited he was that they got permission to use official artwork from the comic book, and another 20% away from the table dealing with convention business). Needless to say, I have no freaking idea how the rules really work...
Note to anyone who works for a company and runs games at a convention. Try not to make your demos *suck.* :)
Thank you!
I'll try to reflect this in my choices of powers and skills - for example I won't take Autohypnosis, as there has simply been nobody to teach Waifrin in any way. I'll also restrict her knowledge of psionics to what little she has worked out for herself. In fact, Waifrin may well worry that her powers are some kind of demonic taint ...
In for a penny, in for a pound. You can take autohynosis if you so desire. Know(psionics) would have very limited effect in the game. The points would be wasted 99.9% of the time. Although if the campaign provides a big enough opening, I'll have to work in some sort of psi subplot. (How could I resist?) So some sort of know(psi) might be personally very beneficial.
Everyone, I have a brand spanking new pdf of the rules. I'll try to check the PCs tonight. Whether I finish or not, still planning on writing the opening post tomorrow night.
Anyone who hasn't said whether or not they'll be reading the adventures, please do so.
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Anyone who hasn't said whether or not they'll be reading the adventures, please do so.
I don't own it, but I am in another Council of Thieves PbP, running concurrently here, so I may have some idea what's going on, which I will dutifully ignore.
I'm also in two Second Darkness PbPs here, and I really haven't noticed a problem with that, since different DMs have such different styles.
As a subscriber to the APs, I already own and have, of course, read "The Bastards of Erebus"...but much like I'm familiar with the Curse of the Crimson Throne in your other game, I don't think it will pose a problem. I'm fully capable of keeping player knowledge separate from character knowledge.
The only material I have read is the player information, and I intend to keep it that way. I don't actually know Golarian that well, but then I suspect with her background Waifrin won't know that much either, so I won't be going out of my way to find out more. That said, I'd appreciate if you included in descriptions things that our characters would know - as I might not!
Set, Zarabeta looks pretty good. 3 comments --
the bonus profession/craft skill point is a oneshot. Not per level.
The summoning feat from Qadira -- +2 to summoner level one spell per day -- just guessing the only game effect is extended spell duration?
Your 3 contacts were far more sumptuous than I had imagined. Really nice work, great detail.
Got to run. Hopefully I'll get a couple more done when I get home tonight.
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the bonus profession/craft skill point is a oneshot. Not per level.
The summoning feat from Qadira -- +2 to summoner level one spell per day -- just guessing the only game effect is extended spell duration?
Your 3 contacts were far more sumptuous than I had imagined. Really nice work, great detail.
Will fix the profession/craft skill reference!
Yeah, +2 rounds duration, since nothing else is level-dependent.
And thanks, I just went to the Onamastikon site to find some Italian names and went from there. It's always funny, 'cause the first one was short, then the second got more fleshed out, then the third one was turning into a book, so I had to go add more to the first one so they didn't look lopsided...
I haven't read the adventure path, and I'm trying to avoid spoilers (although I'm not a stickler about that in general).
Hogarth, Mother Vangelis looks good with just one question:
You've got grapple listed as a weapon at 1d6+2 damage. Unarmed strike by a medium creature deals 1d3. Is there something I'm missing?
Really like the character layout and breakdown of modifiers for various attacks and skills.
That's all tonight. I'll check a couple more in the morning.
Anyone who hasn't said whether or not they'll be reading the adventures, please do so.
I do not have them (I only have the Council of Thieves Player's Guide), but even if I did I would not read it now that I am in a game. Much more fun when one does not know what is going to be thrown at one... at least the first time. *Smiles*
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I've skimmed the CoT pdf..but not in any depth...no reading stat blocks or detailed location descriptions much as with CotCT,like Neil I can keep player and character knowledge seperate as I think I have shown with Heather.
I'm thinking about fleshing out my contacts a bit more unless Thom want's to use them to surprise me occasionaly.
Is anyone else worried about part two of this AP being a collaborative effort between two of the most twisted minds in RP today?
Hogarth, Mother Vangelis looks good with just one question:
You've got grapple listed as a weapon at 1d6+2 damage. Unarmed strike by a medium creature deals 1d3. Is there something I'm missing?
She has armor spikes. I clarified the wording a bit; hope that helps.
Thanks, Hogarth. I remember even thinking, "spiked armour -- unusual choice, but cool". As further proof that I should never do anything when tired I went back and check Mom V for traits. Didn't see any. Each PC is entitled to 2 traits, if they want, but its not mandatory.
Wellard, Marrius looks good to go. A couple things -- you can take 1 more trait. Nice motivation for him, his background is the outline for a story of biblical proportions. Add detail to the contacts or not as you like. They're there to help you see a personal side to the city and to give me a channel to feed everyday news to the PCs. (A function that will be returning soon to my CoCT campaign.) Or to provide hostages should I need to railroad you. (I hope it never comes to that. Bad DMing 101)
Got to work. Neil, Castor and Dabbler still to check.