City of Nine Stars -- City of Twilight (Inactive)

Game Master therealthom

I will be away from my computer for the next four days. I will try to post, but I cannot promise I will be succeeding. Thom, you may DMPC Raven as you see fit if I seem to be taking too long to post. I would hate to stall the action. :-)

Thanks for the heads up, Castor. I've slowed down over the weekend anyway.

With regard to Acrobatics, the rules on it in the core rulebook are as follows:

In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5.

Move through a threatened area DC = Opponent’s Combat Maneuver Defense
Move through an enemy’s space DC = 5 + opponent’s Combat Maneuver Defense
* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.

:

In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5.

[table]
Situation Base Acrobatics DC*
Move through a threatened area Opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
Move through an enemy's space 5 + opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.

[/table]

I cheerfully admit that I read this in a braindead way. I was interpreting the Acrobatics roll as like a combat manuever. So when the tiefling failed the Acrobatics check I just denied him the movement.

Rereading the entry, especially the table -- "* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. " It now seems to me that the movement happens no matter what and the roll just determines if the mover gets whacked with an AoO or not.

Is that the consensus? The third option would be get whacked and loose the movement.

Edit: Ninja'd by dabbler

As the feat Stand Still specifically makes the target of an AoO stop moving if you hit them, I would have to say that the person trying to move continues even if you tag them with an AoO, unless you have that feat.

Good point. Okay from here on out Acrobatics gives you a chance to avoid the AoO. You get the movement no matter what.

Thanks for the erudition, dabbler, Castor

From the wrong thread where I posted them originally and dabbler replied:

Regarding the last fight,I find it ironic that Zara chose that group of tieflings to charge by herself. The description for Dravano, the big clawed tiefling listed something like this under his description:

"In combat, likes to tear apart the weakest-looking opponent. Barring that he'll challenge the strongest."

ANd there she was presenting herself as chief target without support.

It did take a few of them out of the fight, though! I think Marius and Waifrin made a good double-team on the ones that attacked the rear - she 'de-buffed' them and he absolutely slaughtered them!

I hope we can take down the leader next, though, Waifrin doesn't have much power left and I think Zara is low on spells.

Regarding the last fight,I find it ironic that Zara chose that group of tieflings to charge by herself. The description for Dravano, the big clawed tiefling listed something like this under his description:

"In combat, likes to tear apart the weakest-looking opponent. Barring that he'll challenge the strongest."

And there she was presenting herself as chief target without support.

Yeah, I was hoping for a moment's reprieve from the color spray, and once anyone else got in front of Zara, she wouldn't be able to cast it, making her a Commoner with a dagger. :)

It was an overbold move, particularly since she still wasn't healed up from the shadow-worm encounter, but we weren't gonna win by letting them darkness up and turtling.

Best fight I've been in for ages..

Nothing ventured, nothing gained I say! It was awesome, now let's go for an encore ...

Zara was quite effective, if a trifle foolhardy.

Marius was unbelievable.

As for an encore. The second round is begins shortly. Gird yourselves.

Jury duty tomorrow. I doubt the Commonwealth will provide internet.

Bummer ... hope it isn't a long trial!

I was going to sit to be empanelled, but they canceled today. Hooray! I'm off the hook.

Whoo hoo

FYI...I'll be winging my way to GenCon in about 15 minutes or so. While I'm there, I'll have my laptop with me. But, I'm working the Paizo booth 6 hours each day. And, in my spare time, I'm going to be working on my Serpent's Skull manuscript and talking Carrion Crown with James and Wes. So I may be out of pocket for a few days. NPC my character, if necessary.

FYI...I'll be winging my way to GenCon in about 15 minutes or so. While I'm there, I'll have my laptop with me. But, I'm working the Paizo booth 6 hours each day. And, in my spare time, I'm going to be working on my Serpent's Skull manuscript and talking Carrion Crown with James and Wes. So I may be out of pocket for a few days. NPC my character, if necessary.

Give Wes and James my best.

I would, but their flight got delayed. Haven't seen them yet, but I hear they arrived about 10PM last night.

Due to computer problems, such as my OS going into a sort of coma, my posting will probably be erratic over the next few days. Thankfully, my job entails computer and Internet access, but still feel free to DMPC my character if I seem to be taking too long to post.

Hey guys,

FYI...I'm still following along, just haven't had time or energy to string together a coherent post yet. I picked up the ConCrud at GenCon and I've also got my Serpent's Skull deadline looming this weekend and still have some writing to do. So, carry on without me a bit. I'll leap back in when I can come up for air again.

--Neil

I shall be on hols for the next week or so, I will have my laptop with me but posts may be short, and editing new backgrounds may be right out.

Hey guys,

FYI...I'm still following along, just haven't had time or energy to string together a coherent post yet. I picked up the ConCrud at GenCon and I've also got my Serpent's Skull deadline looming this weekend and still have some writing to do. So, carry on without me a bit. I'll leap back in when I can come up for air again.

--Neil

Yeh I thought it would be the dreaded deadline.

Glad to hear you're not dead, Neil. I was worried and went looking at your posts this morning and was happy to see you complaining about Gencrud in another thread.

Dabbler, have fun.

I want to get all your opinion on this. Well the opinion of all of you. I might not have time to hear all of your opinion.

Since the mummy and his/her companions have already attacked Waif and her companions, Waifrin gets a +5 to that save, unless you already counted that in...

First, thanks, Set for bringing it up. You guys should always speak up if you think I'm missing something.

Charm Person from the PRD

I wasn't 100% sure with where I was going, but I wasn't going to give Waif the +5 bonus because she has not been personally threatened or attacked in this combat. What tipped me was turning the scenario around , what if the party's caster had tried to charm an unengaged enemy while the fight went on around them. I guess it comes down to "currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies".

Wellard, I'd be particularly interested in your opinion because Heather has charm person on her spell list, yes?

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/playByPost/therealTho ms&page=72

Sugar! It looks like I'm a double-standard holding bastard, or inconsistent at best.

Now I'm doubly in interested in your opinions.

I mainly brought it up because it just happened yesterday in another PBP, and it was perplexing to me that charm person, which I haven't seen cast in years, is suddenly coming out of the woodwork. :)

[game design philosophy]
I've spent years thinking that charm person was 'useless' because of this in-combat clause.

It's usually a crap shoot if an 'all or nothing' spell is going to work anyway, like 50/50, depending on CR and optimization factors, and to reduce that chance of working by 25% in the situations where one is most likely to actually use it (against someone who is a potential threat) seemed like an unacceptable risk to take for one of my X number of spells / day (particularly at low levels, where a blown charm person might represent 25-50% of my total spell arsenal for the day!).

Magic Missile always does something. Charm Person (Color Spray, Sleep, etc.) either totally screw the opponents, and 'game over,' or they do nothing, and you've taken a less effective action than if you'd used Aid Other on the fighter (and wasted arcane resources). Spells like this are either 'too good,' or 'a waste of time.' It's *never* 'just right,' and then consistently get nerfed down to saves per round or 'can't make someone do something they wouldn't normally do, which means, whatever the DM doesn't want you to get away with, so why did we bother to write rules for this?', and yet never seem to get buffed on the other end, to make the spell not a wasted action when it *doesn't* utterly bone the opposition.

(A version that allowed a save / round, but required 2 saves to 'cure' like an affliction, and if you saved once, you were just dazed for that round, might be a neat compromise, and apply the Pathfinder affliction / poison / curse / disease rules to save or die effects, making them a bit less 'save or die' and a bit more 'save or have something awful happen, save *and* still take a minor debuff,' so that casting the spell is never a total waste of time, even if it doesn't have quite the effects one had hoped for.)

I totally get why 4E went the route it did, because of this sort of quandary. I don't have to like it, but, as a DM, I totally get it. :)
[/game design philosophy]

Generally Heather won't even think to cast it in a combat situation.However the combat hadnt really started at the point where I threw it at the goon..and the one on Vendra failed miserably anyway.

I would say the +5 applies when the target feels threatened

So how about it Dabbler. Did Waif feel threatened?

Hmm ... out of power points, hoards of tieflings rushing in, Waifrin DEFINITELY felt threatened! On the other hand, Will is her best save, and her demoralise should have tagged most of the arriving tieflings, so I wasn't too worried ...

Waif is feeling threatened, but not really. It sounds like I'm doing half my job as DM.

Non sequitur. My family added a dog around July 4th. I don't know if you all have noticed a slow down in my posting starting around then. The dog is like a 10 hour a week commitment. Unfortunately gaming is one of the things which has had to give. I don't see my posting rate ever increasing again. OK not for about 13 years.

Anyway this is assure you that I have not lost interest in the game at all. I hope the slower posting rate doesn't cause anyone undue frustration or loss of enthusiasm.

Waif is feeling threatened, but not really. It sounds like I'm doing half my job as DM.

Waifrin is a creature of her passions - she's riding adrenaline, rage and fear right now, and I'm loving every minute of this fight, even though I don't seem able to hit the broad side of a barn. I'd say you're performing at 100%, Thom - you get a big thumbs-up from me!

Excellent fight indeed! Odds a bit on the difficult side, chaotic and most of all fun! I have to agree with Dabbler, Thom! Including the point about being unable to hit the broad side of a barn. Raven seems to be suffering from the same curse of the dice as Waifrin, and then a critical threat happens... only to have the confirmation roll flounder... Heh!

All in all, thumbs-up mate!

I'm getting to explore Waifrin as a back-up fighter more, something I hadn't originally planned on doing but that is working out quite well. I think she'll need to invest in some upgraded weapons and armour after this adventure, though!

Hopefully we'll find a decent stash of loot from these guys that will stand us in good stead.

Talk about flogging a dead tiefling ... sorry about the bad jokes!

I just wanted to say thanks to Thom for his comments in another thread I started in the General Discussion area. I appreciate how far he want out of his way to allow me to run Waifrin, and I'm glad that it's a decision he's not had cause to regret - not yet anyway!

Which comments? I didn't contribute anything you didn't already know about my opinion.

Waif is a constant source of concern as I adapt to her, but she's been good fun in the game. I'd kind of like to take a psion out for a spin sometime. That would encourage me to look at the rules more.

A psion would probably be harder because of the number of powers - that said, I was considering running an AP myself using psionic characters to help test out some of Dreamscarred's Pathfinder conversions. If I do I will let you know ...

When I said psion I was speaking generally. Should have said psionic character. But I am definitely not fishing for another game. I don't have the iron willpower to drop games, but time is becoming short for me. If I add more games as a player it's got to come out of my DMing time and I don't think anyone here wants that.

A psion would probably be harder because of the number of powers - that said, I was considering running an AP myself using psionic characters to help test out some of Dreamscarred's Pathfinder conversions.

...drool...

Speaking of DMing time, F.Castor:

Jammed at work. May be Monday before I post. Sooner if lucky.

2000 posts, and a well done to everyone as I think we really got our teamwork together in this last fracas - everyone got stuck in and did their bit and used their abilities tactically. Well done us!

Zara's been in commoner mode for quite a few rounds now, but the grease laid low my tiefling fodder, and kept their darkness localized to the corner. Set did some lovely RP in his last two combat posts too.

Waif's demoralize also hurt.

Marius continues as juggernaut of doom.

Raven tried hard. Next fight he'll get it together. He can't roll low forever. (Neither can I)

Akorian was perfectly adequate, despite being run by me for a couple rounds.

Perhaps I should have let Palaveen spiritual hammer you guys while invisible. The scenario suggested it, but I don't care for invisibility remaining intact while someone uses a damaging spell.

Maybe I should have had the NPC tieflings go dark too. I thought I would get more mileage out of them fighting, but if I had blinded you first it probably would have worked out better for the Bastards. At least some got out of the room.

Zara's been in commoner mode for quite a few rounds now, but the grease laid low my tiefling fodder, and kept their darkness localized to the corner. Set did some lovely RP in his last two combat posts too.

I think she gets kudos for saving our bacon, to be honest - those tieflings and their darkness could have been all over us otherwise. She took some hits but she's really proved her worth keeping large numbers of foes out of the fight.

Waif's demoralize also hurt.

I wasn't sure how effective that power would be when I took it, but even with the restricted range we agreed on it's really proved it's worth as a debuffer. I would have liked to have actually scored some hits with the energy rays but that's just the way the cookie crumbles - I'm sure I'll get to blow more things up later. I need a better melee weapon and armour, though, that's becoming clear as I get into the close combat more.

Marius continues as juggernaut of doom.

At low level, fighters rule. That said, without the backup of the party and the debuffing spells/powers he would certainly have taken much heavier damage. His combat meathod of using the short swords and becoming a blender is really showing it's worth, I have to admit.

Raven tried hard. Next fight he'll get it together. He can't roll low forever. (Neither can I)

He did get some hits in and tied down some foes, and that means a lot, especially when they were casters who could potentially do a lot more damage if left unmolested.

Akorian was perfectly adequate, despite being run by me for a couple rounds.

He's the only caster with spells left and he got in some solid hits. I think his role as 'spiritual leader' is really coming out nicely.

Perhaps I should have let Palaveen spiritual hammer you guys while invisible. The scenario suggested it, but I don't care for invisibility remaining intact while someone uses a damaging spell.

At our level that could have been a killer. Although we dealt with the combat I have a feeling it was aimed at a party of 3rd level, rather than 2nd.

Maybe I should have had the NPC tieflings go dark too. I thought I would get more mileage out of them fighting, but if I had blinded you first it probably would have worked out better for the Bastards. At least some got out of the room.

If they had managed to blind us, it could have gone badly.

Marius weapon combos seem to work pretty well..although most of his feats will go on the shortsword work the backup weapons serve to give him an ability to damage anything that comes in his direction.

In fact he's probably the most seriously thought out fighter I've had in 36 years of playing

therealthom wrote:

Perhaps I should have let Palaveen spiritual hammer you guys while invisible. The scenario suggested it, but I don't care for invisibility remaining intact while someone uses a damaging spell.

At our level that could have been a killer. Although we dealt with the combat I have a feeling it was aimed at a party of 3rd level, rather than 2nd.

IIRC the AP says you should be 2nd level when you're ready to take on the Bastards and 3rd when you're done. I think the author expected you to work your way your way through the Bastards complex in pieces starting at the ex-temple. Maybe to even leave and come back. If you do it that way you would pretty much have a clean line of retreat. Your cleverness in coming in the back door kind of back-fired. You ran straight into the heavy hitters.

On the bright side you're still there with little spell support and the mooks are getting organized. I can't seem to hit Marius or Akorian, but everyone else is a relatively soft target.

Sure you can send the mooks at us but their morale level must be close to negative by now

Anyone ever think why the bad guys never just run away when they are clearly outmatched?

That last paragraph was just me being a dick. They already ran away. I even put down Marius' last kill a little early. I think he had 1 hp left. As far as I'm concerned this fight's over.

For now. (I just can't help myself.)

Raven tried hard. Next fight he'll get it together. He can't roll low forever. (Neither can I)

One thing is for sure, he will not be going down the dual-wielding path after all, at least not for the time being anyway. I would not like to handicap him further seeing he already has a hard time hitting anything (granted, it is mostly sucky dice rolls, but still...) and it would be illogical for Raven to consider a more difficult combat style when the simpler one he is already using clearly needs some work on his part.

Thus, single wielding for him for now. :-)

On other news, great fight everybody! :-)

Loot So Far (up to and including the fight with the large bone-clawed tiefling, but before the final battle):
853 gp
180 sp
‘Fair Jerrick’s Fair Deals’ store credit (worth 500 gp)
2 small gems (worth 3 gp each)
Wooden coins (demonic profile on one side, woman’s face on the other)
Silver holy symbol of Asmodeus (from Shanwen)

There was also a set of masterwork thieves' tools (which went to Raven) and a masterwork breastplate (which went to Marius), as well as a vial of pink fluid of a lighter color than the potions of cure light wounds found so far (which went to Waifrin).

Thanks for keeping track, F.Caster.

IIRC the AP says you should be 2nd level when you're ready to take on the Bastards and 3rd when you're done.

Does that mean we level? :p