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Some students are supposed to attend on campus in a classroom, but half the students are still attending remotely to keep socially distant seating in the classroom. Most of the students are opting to attend remotely. Last night, I had no one in the room; everyone was watching on Teams.
I planned to post last weekend, but my new term class has a lot of students and so it took extra time to get my weekend grading done. I'm close to caught up, so I'll try to post something this afternoon or Wednesday. Sorry for the delay and thanks for your continuing patience.
One of my favorite aphorisms is "The reward for patience is patience."
Hey all,
I threw up the loot into a new tab of the Loot Table so we could start looking at that.
The last time I thought about loot was apparently last October? Crazy. Did everyone remember to take their 816.5 gold from that time? I never officially closed out that tab of loot until today, so want to make sure people got everything from it.
Dom takes the masterwork composite longbow +2 unless someone else wants it. Backup ranged weapon, could matter when fighting flying dragons.
By the way, there was a Spellbook we found in our prior loot, not sure if Erland got the spells he wants from there. If so, we could sell the spellbook.
Looking at the loot sheet, did we ever figure out what kind of wand it was? And what the bonus on the bracers were? And oh, were the 3 vials of liquid magical as well?
Dom, my primary weapon is a +1 longbow. Would you be willing to swap the +2 one you snagged for my +1? I'm fine if not!
Oh, I wrote that wrong. Mine is a masterwork composite longbow with +2 Str, non-magical. I don't think it's as good as yours!
Good call on ID-ing loot.
I'll try to identify the items mentioned. If you could pinpoint where in the adventure they were picked up, it would help. If not, I'll see if I can figure it out.
I think all the unidentified items were found on the witch and slavers encountered outside the tower, so there has not been time to get an outside vendor to look at them. Those with Detect Magic and Spellcraft can make rolls to identify the following:
Bracers
5 potions (these can also be identified with a perception check)
wand
feather tokens (2)
The following would require a craft alchemy check
2 vials of non-magical thick liquid.
Rurik is not sure of the bracers, but the wand has 24 charges of Ray of Enfeeblement and the feather tokens are both Feather Token (whip).
To identify the non-magical vials, use a wisdom check DC 20. If the Wisdom check fails, a craft alchemy check DC 20 may be attempted. Both vials seem to have the same liquid in them.
. That vial definitely is full of pixie dust, yessiree.
Erland can use the wand of ray of enfeeblement unless someone else wants it.
Anadrien
DC 17
DC 16
DC 16
DC 17
Domition
DC 17
DC 16
DC 16
DC 17
Erland
DC 17
DC 16
DC 16
DC 17
Ingrit
DC 17
DC 16
DC 16
DC 17
Rurik
DC 17
DC 16
DC 16
DC 17
Sniffing the potions, Anadrien thinks one of the potions is Cat's Grace, two are CLW, and she's not sure of the last.
Domitian agrees with her on the two CLW potions and thinks the last is a potion of invisibility.
Ingrit agrees about the CLW potions. She is not sure of the other two.
Rurik likewise recognizes the CLW potions and agrees with Domitian that the last is invisibility.
Erland is not sure about the brackers. He thinks the two non-magical vials contain Drow poison.
You can put the bracers on and see if you can get a sense of what they do from that.
If everybody's okay with it I would drink the potion of invisibility. It would get me around to light six incendiary arrows
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No objections. Sounds like our invisible women are gonna be the lynchpin of this operation.
Good plan!
Are we supposed to position ourselves on the combat map in any way, or is it a matter of just saying what spells we use in advance? Dom drinks a Potion of Shield of Faith. He keeps a potion of Enlarge Person in hand to drink after making it through the trapdoor.
The first person to open the trap door can make a move action to move. Count the first five feet of movement the move up the ladder to the next level. Then I will determine if the dragon or whatever enemies are there is/are surprised before rolling initiative and the battle will then begin.
If Anadrien is to open the trap door, make a stealth roll.
I will describe what she sees when she starts into the top floor of the tower.
Ok, posting tonight. Hope my +20 from Vanish and +3 from Archaeologist's Luck are enough!
Just getting internet back now. Catching up asap. Sorry about thwt.
I think you're good. We're leading with our invisible forces. Will take a Fly spell as part of the prep.
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Just want to say: very cool set piece for a battle.
I'm going pretty much by the book (i.e. the Adventure Path). I did up the CR of the dragon and added the snowfall.
I think I am not understanding what is happening with the roof. In his current position, is Dom actually above the roof somehow compared to his allies? I'm not sure that would be what he'd do because he would break line of sight from his allies. Let me try to draw it out from a left side view:
D = Dom
A = Allies
X = Top floor or Roof
o = empty space (needed because I can't seem to have a string of spaces)
ooooDD
ooooDD
XXXXXX
A A
XXXXXX
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This is starting to feel like the whole thing is set up to just completely screw any group that isn't made up entirely of archers. ;)
Pretty much. He's going to keep flying.....but don't worry, the snow will make sure the archers are screwed too.
Can't we lure him back into the clock tower by not flying ourselves?
Not when he can stay in the air and wait for his breath weapon to recharge.
I assumed the point of flying was to get to where you can see the dragon and perhaps attack or at least report. Obviously you can move wherever you want. I just need a clearer indication than has been given. Use a text box to indicate how high you are above the floor level.
I just wanted to make it clear that if you are under the roof, you only have 15 feet and you can't see outside unless you are in front of one of the openings where the tracks run through.
This is probably the time to hash out the rules for flying.
First you may want to review the rules discussion on the Paizo boards:
Also see Fly skill
Finally: Fly spell
My goal here is to understand RAW and see if there are any issues with them. Let's hash it out now. I'm willing to house rule if it will rationalize the rules and/or simplify them so we can concentrate on the battle.
I'm going to spoiler the rest just to save space in the page.
A lot depends the flyer's fly skill.
Domitian: Fly skill +1 (ranks: 0, Dex: +2, ACP -3, maneuverability good bonus +4, Large size -2).
Erland: Fly skill +14. (ranks and dex and caster level bonus +11, maneuverability good bonus, +4)
The flight spell description: The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet . It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. The rest of the description doesn't generally apply.
Then we apply the rules form the fly skill:
You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees, and can descend at any angle at normal speed.
Interpretation: Each turn the flyer remains flying at the end of movement, he must move at least 30 feet. For fly less than 30 feet and stay in the air requires a DC 10 fly check; automatic for Erland, potentially challenging for Domitian.
Hover: I interpret this to mean you remain in the air without any other movement. Fly check DC 15. This means Erland can automatically hover, but Domitian must make the fly skill check.
Other maneuvers: turning 45 degrees without sacrificing 5 feet of movement, turning 90 degrees while sacrificing 5 feet of movement, turning 180 while sacrificing 10 feet of movement, or flying up at greater than 45 degrees. Each has a DC check that is 15 or 20.
Potential argument: "But it's magic!" True, but the rules allow for someone who can cast the spell daily to practice, spend ranks in the fly skill, and presumably learn to control movement. Someone who uses a potion doesn't get the benefit of any of that experience and so generally must move forward with somewhat limited turning angles.
So it looks as if Erland can do most things without the skill check unless the DC is 20. The only penalty to failing the fly check (when flight is due to magic alone) is that you cannot do what you were trying to do. So if Erland tried to turn 180 degrees and failed the DC 20 skill check, he would have to turn at 90 degrees instead. For Domitian to move less than 30, he'd have to make the DC 10 fly skill check, which he could make or fail. So if he fails, he must either fly 30 feet or land.
I've created an image that shows how Domitian can remain in flight at the end of his turn. He must fly in a circle with a radius of about 10 feet. He can go most of the way but not completely back to where he started with 60 feet of movement, taking into account the 5' penalty for each 45 degree turn and the two diagonal moves equals 15 feet rule.
All these rules apply to the dragon too of course. I'll let you know that it has a fly skill of +9, which means it can automatically move less than its fly speed and has an 80% chance to hover if it tries that. It can make sharp turns but has a chance it will not be able to do them. It has the risk that if it fails a DC by 5 or more, it falls to the ground, so it won't likely do anything risky unless it doesn't have far to fall.
The dragon must also make a fly check if it takes damage (DC 10), but if it fails, it just loses 10 feet altitude, so that won't likely cause it much concern unless it happens to be over the extending ice platform.
There is another case that affects the dragon but not PCs using magic to fly: If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage. So this might be a good tactic for Domitian in his enlarged state, as he could actually cause the beast to fall. He would have to make a successful attempt at a bull rush to count as a collision.
An important thing to keep in mind: Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check.
Is there anything in this that you think I got wrong, RAW? Is there anything that is correct, RAW, but you think is irrational or too cumbersome? Let me know. We'll continue with the gameplay once I hear from everyone in the discussion thread.
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I think you've got it right.
This is why Erland has been taking Fly skill ranks since he got the ability, after all.
Wish I had some means to ground the dragon, though.
I have to spend the day hauling boxes around and moving stuff in storage, so I won't be able to post until tonight.
Since communal resist energy: cold is up, Rurik is readying an action to cast prayer if the dragon comes into range/visibility.
What the heck, I'll have Dom 20 feet up. I did want the dragon to come to me first, after all.
So is it correct that the space where the tracks run through is basically a door, so you can step out through there to stand on the platform?
What the heck, I'll have Dom 20 feet up. I did want the dragon to come to me first, after all.
So is it correct that the space where the tracks run through is basically a door, so you can step out through there to stand on the platform?
Yes.
Also I moved Erland out of the red box area. The clockwork runs from floor to ceiling, so it's off limits to movement, even flying.
Where are we at?
I was giving some time for people to post opinions on the flying rules. Since no one has raised any objections, I'll continue, using the rules as described above. I'll get a post up soon.
I think you've got it right.
This is why Erland has been taking Fly skill ranks since he got the ability, after all.
Wish I had some means to ground the dragon, though.
Yeah there's very few ways to do that. There's another game I'm in where we're using the Called Shots optional rules. A called shot to the wing forces a fly check or decent 10 feet. A critical called shot to the sing grounds them.
The rules look good and make sense. Even magical fliers benefit from practice
Is there merit in having our flyers stay in the archers' line of sight so that the dragon can't attack you all without exposing himself?
Definitely
Good point. Will move out toward the dragon and into line of sight of the archers.
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Looking back at the dragon attack on Anadrien - did you take into account her extra cold resistance 5 for being an Arctic elf? Does that stack with resist elements?
Also, if she succeeds at a reflex save, doesn't her Evasion negate all damage instead of her taking half?
Yup evasion makes a save no damage
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Nice shooting, Ingrit!
Looking back at the dragon attack on Anadrien - did you take into account her extra cold resistance 5 for being an Arctic elf? Does that stack with resist elements?
Also, if she succeeds at a reflex save, doesn't her Evasion negate all damage instead of her taking half?
I didn't notice the evasion trait, so that would negate the damage, regardless of the resistance issue.
The spell specifies that it does not stack with certain other spell related resistances. The elven race trait does not say whether it stacks or not. Unless someone knows of a rule about energy resistance that says it stacks with other sources unless stated otherwise, I'm assuming the spell supersedes other cold resistances, rather than stacking with them, which is the default assumption the rules generally observe.
Yeah I was wondering about that, as my Northern Ancestry trait provides me with natural Cold Res 2 as well
Found a response:
Spell and racial energy resistances don't stack.
As specified in the rules about Energy Resistance :
"A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type per attack, but it does not have total immunity. [...] This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide."
Therefore, in your example, the racial resistance will be replaced by Resist Energy for the spell duration.
So no, they serve in the absence of protective magic, but if both are present, better resistance applies. Useful if you get caught out naked in the snow though. lol
Thanks for nailing that down. Resistance 10 is better than 2.
For what it's worth, given the damage done by the dragon's breath weapon and the possibility of taking half (or no damage) based on the reflex save, the feared dragon breath weapon is much of a factor here.
It pays to be prepared.
Woking while I post and listening to music on shuffle....the Green Arrow score came on as I was typing that up...I just had to.
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Not a complaint! Ingrit is definitely the MVP of this combat.
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If you read her backstory you'll see how long this has been in coming....she was built for this moment.
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Nice shot! Fantastic post.
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The sweet feel of a confirmed crit with a powerful x3 crit attack at a key moment in an important battle! Makes up for those runs of single digit d20 results that the dicebot sometimes delivers.
Edit:I'll see your Green Arrow Score and raise you Artemis by Lindsey Stirling. Watch past 1:15 for the relevance to this situation if you are not familiar with the video.