Black Talons of Absalom (Inactive)

Game Master Dave Young 992

So Grigori is our enforcer/legbreaker, excellent.

When you say no kidnapping, is that only in regards to children?

Since this is most likely going to be a rather RP heavy game, might I make the following suggestion:

Allow 1-3(two being fair) bonus background feats for free.

Such feats must not grant a direct bonus to combat nor can they be metamgic feats.

The various skill and proficency feats are two good examples of allowable background feats, while Weapon Focus or Widen Spell are not.

I've used this for another game I'm running and suggested it a few times and its gotten good responses. It allows for a much more detailed and expanded background, which is then very nicely reflected mechanically.

long as we dont kidnap kids, no random killing, Killing with a purpose we can condone

And keep it as family friendly as is reasonable - no sex crimes, or fetishes, or overly graphic brutality please. <I have come across this on these boards in games I have played in, so I need to just put that out there>

Quill is good at disguise and information. So planning and infiltrating to set up the big boys, is her specialty.

Theft, extortion, blackmail, kidknapping for ransoms, running numbers, all would have been things she could have been into.

Plotting turf, is her specialty. Finding the right business to strike, the right street corner to stake a claim on, sewers to move unseen, etc.

Kheldor wrote:

ok, so ideas for our little gang:

1) Is there anything we hold as off limits? The Red Mantises refuse contracts on rightly established kings and the Italian Mafia for the longest time refused to deal in drugs.

You would probably have some taboos. Maybe you don't like slavery. Or, maybe, you love it, and make money catching escaped ones. You may have rules about not hurting kids, or kidnapping, etc.

Definitely agree with no harm coming to kids. Andrezi saw too much of that as a kid to do something like that himself. Otherwise he's okay with a number of unsavory deeds. With regards to slavery, it is rather common in Golarion as a whole, with the notable exceptions of Andoran and the River Kingdoms. From a practical standpoint the slave trade is not something for a group of up and comers, generally that is reserved for the more established element.

2) We should each lay out exactly what our chosen specialties are, so that this way we can not only plan and adventure accordingly, like a normal PC group, but also recruit accordingly.

Andrezi is a skilled pickpocket and burglar, and fairly well know among the various gambling halls and houses of ill repute of Absalom. Beyond that, if you are wanting intimidation and a strong reminder of what we want and what we don't, I think Grigori is your man. If it has gotten to be a repeat offense or so grievous of an offense that a warning is not enough, that's where Andrezi comes in. He is a killer, but not completely without conscience...there must be a reason. (Granted those reasons could be numerous).

3) Which brings me to recruitment: Is there any restrictions on who, what and where we recruit from? Personally, especially with a girl in the group already, I would like to not be gender biased. Any other restrictions are fine, but if you feel the need to not let in a certain group, explain it.

This is a fantasy world where females can start with a 20 strength. Sure, they can be in a gang. As far as races and such, you can do as you like. There are race-based thieves' guilds, ethnic guilds, etc. Others are open to anyone who can prove themselves.

Also, I would suggest we do have at least a few limitations, though perhaps general and broad at first. When we grow in power, size and prominence, we can enforce stricter policies on recruitment if we so desire.

This is a good start, along with what Kingpin posted above.

Agreed.

And keep it as family friendly as is reasonable - no sex crimes, or fetishes, or overly graphic brutality please. <I have come across this on these boards in games I have played in, so I need to just put that out there>

Of course. Though given the type of game this is, graphic brutality may end up in there from time to time, though I agree it shouldn't be over-done, lest it lose its impact.

Who here has read the dresden files? Cause thats what im aiming for with sidoze gentleman johnny marconne

:-) I'm not a prude or anything. I'll crack a skull, slit a throat, and cut off a finger with the rest of them. But I guess if your character personally gets off on doing it, I don't mind reading the description of you doing the deed, as opposed to then reading your thoughts while doing the deed. ie., I don't mind watching Dexter work, but I don't want to read his thoughts as he is doing it...

It is just setting up shop here with a bunch of evil characters, it is easy to go off the rails crazy with CE violence and gore as "playing my character". Sadly have seen it happen...

Quill will also join in on the no kids theme. Having had to dodge that growing up, she has no wish to visit it upon others.

OK. You're People Who Do Bad Things for power and money, not because you get off on people's suffering. Let's keep it PG-13, maybe a mild R. Quill's more of a trickery cleric, not the murder cult type.

Still waiting on jinchi to pop in with a character. I'll give it a day or so, then the spot goes to garabbott, the next in line.

@ Monkeygod: I think the good stat buy is enough. Even Grigori has an average int. You've all got lots of class skills and points to use. If it were a lower buy, I'd consider it, though.

It might be time for one of you to come up with an outline of gang (or guild, or club, or whatever) rules to discuss and finalize. It's getting interesting!

:-) I'm not a prude or anything. I'll crack a skull, slit a throat, and cut off a finger with the rest of them. But I guess if your character personally gets off on doing it, I don't mind reading the description of you doing the deed, as opposed to then reading your thoughts while doing the deed. ie., I don't mind watching Dexter work, but I don't want to read his thoughts as he is doing it...

It is just setting up shop here with a bunch of evil characters, it is easy to go off the rails crazy with CE violence and gore as "playing my character". Sadly have seen it happen...

Quill will also join in on the no kids theme. Having had to dodge that growing up, she has no wish to visit it upon others.

Fair enough, you shouldn't have to worry about much of that from Andrezi anyway, he doesn't "get-off" on killing, just sees it as something that is occasionally necessary to get what he wants out of life. In fact the way I'm envisioning the character, I will likely change his alignment to LE rather than NE to depict more of a warped sense of honor, as a matter of fact Dexter isn't a poor example...obviously his code will be different than Mr. Morgan's but Andrezi is not a psycho-killer the kills indiscriminately.

Sure, I guess. I mean bonuses to skills are only one aspect of the background feats however. But I get it that you've given us enough to play with.

We still need a name as its our own guild we should all have a say on it so if anyone else has a suggestion go ahead and throw it out there

I have already suggested Nightrunners but its kinda corny but still can work but everyone should least come up with a name and we can all put it to a vote.

OK well if no one objects I(Sidoze) can start working on a rough draft outline of the charter of our gang. If you want id present it in character lol should have it up in a little bit.

Going to make this over google docs heres the link

Gang outline

Ive set it up so only we can comment on the document look it over and either comment on it there to add things you think it should contain or let me know on here and ill make sure everything is changed and or configured

remember this is only a rough draft and I did make it up with Sidoze's motivation behind it (no I dont plan to get more money than everyone or whatever)

Also this regards recruitment rules since we haven't gone over it at all :) will add that on there once we have some time and power to expand our gang ;)

Grigori is not head you want in this, names don't mean anything beyond to give something a title to be called. Grigori would only suggest "The Iron Claw" but name like that might draw too much attention.

Anyone else like the image of a big hulking Russian man who wears really nice clothes, looks like he has a big potbelly which is actually the bulge of his armor :P That's pretty much what Grigori looks like to me

Also Grigori would like to suggest we open up thread here in Discussion Board of characters interacting. No actual Gameplay, just talking and such, introductions for those who don't already know each other. Fun thing to do while planning, fleshes out character to us and each other, yes?

Gang outline

That's a good start!

I like the biker style organization, but it's all up to you guys.

ty feel free to comment on it made most of that up on the fly

@ Quill I was thinking Quill actually "wrote" that since shes the bookeeper cause I dont think Sidoze would actually know how to write that well

hello? anyone there lol

I just got back in front of the screen. I imagine with the holiday so close, people will be scarce for a week or so. One of my games already pretty much closed up shop for a week.

I'll still be here every day, though. If anybody's got questions, feel free.

Also, we haven't heard from our 6th player, so garabbott is next up. He (she?) can use their character, or whip up something else. Garabbott? Where you at?

Yeah, Quill will be the scribe for sure. Brain still working on a name.

Also thinking of tweaking my build a bit.

Also Also thinking of pooling some resources. Quill is not a dedicated healer, but we have a cleric and inquisitor that can use healing wands. If each party member puts forward 250gp we can buy 2 wands of CLW, or at least 125 for one.

I want to buy one but the 750 gp hit to my equipment really crimps buying a nice piece of equipment, and she will use it on you guys so it it a shared resource. Let me know if you all have the cash to spare.

Hey Gangsta, odd request, but I am thinking of having several alternate identities and was wondering if you'd allow me a slightly different skill set for each one.

For example, I was thinking one persona could be a minor priest, with ranks in Heal and Knowledge(Religion). But currently don't have ranks in that, so when I switched to that identity, id move ranks from my current skills into Heal and K:R.

This will all be accomplished via a Hat of Disguise btw.

If this suggestion is not allowed, its totally fine and I'll just swap some skill points around.

Also Also thinking of pooling some resources. Quill is not a dedicated healer, but we have a cleric and inquisitor that can use healing wands. If each party member puts forward 250gp we can buy 2 wands of CLW, or at least 125 for one.

I want to buy one but the 750 gp hit to my equipment really crimps buying a nice piece of equipment, and she will use it on you guys so it it a shared resource. Let me know if you all have the cash to spare.

I'm willing to contribute to that cause. I still have 230 gp left and would be certainly happy to donate to the cause for one, if we decide two, I will have to re-prioritize some of my spending.

As far as a name goes, what are we wanting in a name? Something intimidating, something that implies subtlety, something completely unrelated? Answering that question would go a long way toward zeroing in on a name.

Kheldor, if I may I was just wondering how one would lose a knowledge in something like that, I mean no matter what role you are playing as a false identity you are still going to have that knowledge in you. If a doctor pretends to go out and be a bum he will still have the skills of a doctor just my two cents and I bow to the ruling of the gm just was kinda confused on your train of thought

@ Quill I have 580 something i can donate some what I think later on we should create a separate account for the gangs money we have 6 people so make whatever loot and money we acquire be separated into 7 parts so we have a fall back "party loot" to use as a treasury to buy things like that

I can likely cover any small shortages on the wand front.

Name Suggestion: The Black Hand

It has lots of historic uses in Serbia, Italy, New York, and Israel for liberators, extortionists, and assassins in different connotations. My favorite reference is from the Thieves Guild RPG from the 1980's, as they were the upstart Guild in the Free City of Haven....yeah, I am old school.

I like it as it leaves much to the imagination. It is sinister and threatening, but not in a graphic way.

I like it as a possible mask for Quill (for religious purposes) as an upright hand in front of her face with eye-holes cut in where silver rings reside on the second and fourth fingers

Kheldor, if I may I was just wondering how one would lose a knowledge in something like that, I mean no matter what role you are playing as a false identity you are still going to have that knowledge in you. If a doctor pretends to go out and be a bum he will still have the skills of a doctor just my two cents and I bow to the ruling of the gm just was kinda confused on your train of thought

That is what a high bluff is for. You don't gain other skills but you can come off as having them.

@ Quill I have 580 something i can donate some what I think later on we should create a separate account for the gangs money we have 6 people so make whatever loot and money we acquire be separated into 7 parts so we have a fall back "party loot" to use as a treasury to buy things like that

I like the seventh account for party resources

If we go the Black Hand route, I also suddenly like idea of Six Fingers (as a further sinister element and an obvious wink at the Six-Fingered Man) or use fingers as code names: Thumb, Index (Pointer), Middle (Corazon/Heart), Ring (Ringer), Little (Pinky/Tiny), and either Palm, Fist, or perhaps Fate, as a sixth finger off the Fate Line of the Palm. Although Fist would likely be good as we have a Brawler...

....just ideas, let me know what you think....I needed some time to get started, but now they are just flowing.

While the Black Hand is a great name, I can't vote for it. Every time I see it, I will automatically think of the Black Hand of the Sabbat from Vampire the Masquerade.

Fair enough...I did not know of that reference.

The Wolves of Absalom lol

Shadow Network

While the Black Hand is a great name, I can't vote for it. Every time I see it, I will automatically think of the Black Hand of the Sabbat from Vampire the Masquerade.

You say that like it's a bad thing...could have been worse....could have been the Tal'Mahe'Ra. ;)

Unfortunately, I have nothing to contribute at the moment. Do we know what section of Absalom we are starting in?

Just to throw one out:

Fallen Saints

With Andrezi's orphan background, I'm assuming he started off in The Puddles. Now that he a has a bit of money, I doubt he lives there now.

Now allI can think about is Saints Row...

All you can think about? I've now got Boondock Saints in my head.

How about Shadow Saints??

All you can think about? I've now got Boondock Saints in my head.

How about Shadow Saints??

Makes me think of Latter Day Saints. Ex-Mormon, here. Ixnay on the aints-say! LOL!

Lol plus only 2 of the party is religious at all

Why does there need to be a religious connection? Saint is often just somebody doing lots of good.

We're the opposite of that, hence Shadow Saints.

the Dark Assembly

the Dusky Crows

the Dark Corner

the Night Watch

the Night Crew

I kind of like the Night's Watch.

the Black Watch was/is a Scottish Regiment that I know from the French and Indian War/Queen Ann's War, and probably has a richer history than that.

Night's Watch is a nice play on that. Watch is a nice multi-purpose word, both noun and verb. A military force and vigilance.

Garabbot posted in one of his PbP threads that he is traveling for the holidays and has intermittent internet access. I told him to check in here when he gets a chance.

Of course with Night's Watch I'm just waiting for someone to start talking about the folks on the Wall in George R. R. Martin's rather popular series of books.

Perhaps poaching from history and taking the Black Watch as a name may be a bit better.

Im partial to ravens and crows hehehe

THAT'S why that rolled so well in my mind. :-)

yeah, Black Watch would be better in that case

my only problem with the watch thing is that the watch is often another term for police forces in fantasy settings wouldnt want to confuse the issue us being the very opposite

on another note has anyone seen things we need to change on the outline?

I just got back in front of the screen. I imagine with the holiday so close, people will be scarce for a week or so. One of my games already pretty much closed up shop for a week.

I'll still be here every day, though. If anybody's got questions, feel free.

Also, we haven't heard from our 6th player, so garabbott is next up. He (she?) can use their character, or whip up something else. Garabbott? Where you at?

I have arrived, thanks to Meowzebub, and I'm still very much interested in partaking. Let me read over the thread since the last time I've checked it and I'll get cracking on a character sheet.

on another note has anyone seen things we need to change on the outline?

The fellowship of (Gang name) shall abhor the trade of sexual pleasure, and the distribution of powerful lethal drugs.

Ok, no prostitution rings, that's fine, probably just end up stepping on the toes of the Church of Calistria anyway. Question: What do you mean by powerful lethal drugs? Sounds like poisons to me, and Sidoze is a poisoner rogue...seems a bit off.

All plans regarding the acquirement of wealth or power, of any kind, will be run through Sidoze as leader...

I understand Sidoze seeks the roll of the leader of the gang, and that's fine, I just don't know how realistic it is to inform him every time one of us decides to pinch some rich guy's coin purse. Perhaps more along the lines of everytime we open our operation into a new field of illegal activity, obviously we aren't going to start off running "...burglary, arson, money lending, battery, unregistered gambling rings, collection of funds, selling and distribution of narcotic goods, racketeering, extortion, blackmail, kidnapping for ransoms..." type of operations. So we will need to prioritize.

I actually haven't had time to read the outline just yet, but there's no chance in the any of the nine hells I am running all my plans, of any kind through Sidoze.

Why are you assuming leadership by the way? Are you trying to claim your better than us somehow? Wouldn't it make more sense, as a group of criminal PCs, that we all be leader? aka a council of some sort?

On names:

Night Ravens?

Shadow Crows?

Actually, I kinda like Night Ravens.

Yeah, Juno would have to ask the same thing. She's just as ambitious as Sidoze in wanting to be the boss of her own gang, and while she doesn't necessarily have the brawns to reinforce her standing among most criminals, she has the brains and the manipulative mind to make other people do it for her ;)

If you try to dictate her actions with a universal mandate like that, she's only going to get angry.

EDIT:

I think a good way to approach this is to think about where we are going to be starting from, and where we want to go from there. For instance, how many members do we have? Do we have an HQ?

We've got a basic idea of what we will and won't do, but I think it'd be best to only draw the line at childnapping/prostitution. Personally, I see drugs as profitable, and they only really hurt the people dumb enough to use them--what part of that would be immoral to a bunch of up and coming gangsters? Besides, if we're starting practically from scratch (an idea GM Kingpin mentioned liking, which I like as well), drugrunning and the like might be some of the best paying jobs we find for a while: we should keep our options open.

So, assuming we're starting from scratch with just the 6 of us, we should first come up with an outline that will give some purpose to our recruiting efforts. We need to address how we want our organization to be handled. Based on Andrezi's, Kheldor's, and my own objections, we do not want a strict, top-down, heirarchical organization of power.

I'll posit the idea of a Shadow Council: six members (I wonder who they could possibly be?) who regulate the rules and actions of the gang as a whole. Each one has their own specializations and aspirations, but they share a mutual respect for each other that allows for a wide variety of opportunities for illicit money-making.

ANOTHER EDIT:

On the subject of names, I'd like to propose the Scoundrel's Consortium.

However, I also personally enjoyed the Hand idea proposed earlier. Building on that, here are some more options adding onto that which I brainstormed: The Savage Hand, and The Brazen Fist.

By drugs I meant like opium I kinda liked how you Andrezi had mentioned how the mafia refused to do the drug trade, sorry I used to live in a central hub of the meth trade I 25-I70 and the town was pretty messed up

@ Kheldor ooc no I am not trying to claim any of that. In character Sidoze whole motivation is to be the leader, and in character he would say you would abide by the rules or else, he is on a mission and no one will stand in his way that's the character, same as kheldor and Juno saying they would get angry and being told what to do, ( I will never actually tell you ic or otherwise to do something unless we discussed it and planned it ooc not that kind of person)

back to ooc I know we are all setting up heroes in our own minds and making people who are very independent, however, often in any type of organization there is a leader even among a council, and if you read through the outline I mentioned all decisions came through the founders (ruling council) but Sidoze would want to know what is going on within the guild, if you are part of a criminal guild anything you do can jeopardize the integrity of the gang. To andrezi's question when you pinch the rich guys purse part of that money should be allotted to the gang since if you got into trouble you could call upon the gang to help you thats why I was writing about the shared income and such ( this all kinda of new to me and I did say that the outline was very rough draft, writing it all down 50 mins on 4 hours of sleep)

I hesitate to mention that from the beginning I mentioned my characters motivation, I mean I have played a while and I know no decision is actually made alone with a group of players

...I think I lost my train of thought here....