Feedback Request: Custom summon lists

[Whack-a-Rogue]

I've been dissatisfied with Summoners for a while now but couldn't identify why until just recently. Then it hit me: if you get rid of the Eidolon, they're generally pretty similar from a summoning standpoint. 90% of the time, you're summoning Celestial/Fiendish Eagles, then it's Elementals, then it's Lantern Archons, etc. The summon monster I-IX lists are massive - especially when you include all the feats, deific summons, and archetypes, but the vast majority of the creatures never get summoned. For example, when's the last time saw someone summon a Poisonous Frog or a Mephit? Therefore, I've decided that a complete rewrite of these spells is in order.

My goal is simple: make summons more flavorful. When you look at the attached document, you'll see that summon monster I-IX are significantly smaller. Instead, the majority of options come from a Summoner's Eidolon selection.

Summon Lists

This is a work in progress: I'm still making lists for Aberrations, Constructs, Elementals, and Nature (will replace summon nature's ally). Right now, I really need assistance making sure the lists I've put together are 1) roughly equal to each other, 2) not game-breakingly powerful (summoned Noble Genies will need to lose their wish SLA, for example), and 3) full of appropriate options (did I miss any thematic creatures?). Thanks in advance. XD

[GM Rednal]

Summoning Aberrations is... interesting. I have a character using a completely customized summoning list of all aberrations. At Summon Monster 1-3, they're not very impressive as meat shields, though Vilstraks are kind of amazing for utility purposes. At SM4, Aberrations start to be more interesting than weird blob monsters. XD

[Whack-a-Rogue]

That's exactly what I'm shooting for. Do you still happen to have that Aberration list?

[Luca Wistor, the Void Caller]

Why yes, I do. Notably, it makes use of the Tome of Horrors to pad things out and give a few more options.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

That's some good stuff. XD If you don't mind, I'll use that as a baseline before tweaking it so it matches the parameters I've set for the other lists.

[GM Rednal]

I can say that even with Augment Summoning, most of them are pretty bad at hitting foes in the first 3 levels. XD Master Summoner gets you lots of minions, but a normal Eidolon is almost necessary if you want to do good damage. It may smooth out at higher levels, but we haven't gotten there yet.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

UPDATE: I've added Constructs. Next on the agenda is Aberrations.
Summon Lists

[avr]

How would summoned animated objects work, would the summoner get to assign their CP? What about specific animated objects like animated manacles?

[Whack-a-Rogue]

Good question. :-) I'd just been going off the default creatures from d20pfsrd. I'll ponder how CP should fit in.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

UPDATE: All lists are complete. There are now a total of 19 unique lists, each tied to a specific Eidolon type.
Summon Lists

NEXT STEPS
- Determine what to do about animated objects and CP. Currently thinking the Constructor will need to become a full-fledged Summoner archetype for this to really work.
- Fix the Elemental list. It has the right amount of creatures but needs at least one option for summon monster II and summon monster IX. Perhaps something with the Aerial/Aqueous/Chthonic/Fiery Creature Template.

Feedback, as always, is appreciated.

[The Sideromancer]

I note that, despite having a full eidolon subtype, Psychopomps are included with Aeons instead of as their own thing. Is this intentional as a result of their being relatively few of both types of N outsiders (similar to the Div/Genie list)?

No entry exists for summoners usin Ancestor, Angel, or Deepwater eidolons (or Twinned, but that's already specific to an archetype). What list they use should probably be detailed.

The Unchained Summoner does not have subtype entries for Animal, Undead, or Construct eidolons, so saying one must take an eidolon of that type is pretty useless until those are detailed.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

Excellent questions.

When going through the Bestiaries, I found there to be a preponderance of Evil Outsiders but relatively few Good/Neutral ones. As a result, I put Psychopomps with Aeons/Inevitables/Proteans and Angels with Agathions/Archons/Azatas to fill space. I wasn't particularly happy with it but couldn't find enough alternate creatures.

My plan is to use the custom lists in my home campaign which has several houserules. One of them is the banning of Ancestor Eidolons for story reasons. I can try to come up with a list for them if you'd like, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find 20-30 creatures with matching flavor. Regarding Angel Eidolons, I'd say they can use one of the Good Outsider lists. Probably Archons, but I'm open to suggestions.

Good point with the Deepwater Eidolon. I should probably make up a list of aquatic summons. That would bring the unique lists to an even 20, which is a plus in my book. XD I like the Twinned Eidolon, but since it's specific to an archetype, I wasn't going to mess with it. It should probably have a pretty generic summon list, anyway.

Animal, Construct, and Undead Eidolons can be found in THIS EXCELLENT PRODUCT from Everyman Gaming. My home campaign uses a lot of 3pp, and sometimes I forget what isn't in vanilla PF. ;-)

[Whack-a-Rogue]

UPDATE: Based on feedback here and on Reddit, I've made several changes.
- I've added some additional creatures to summon monster I-IX
- Elementals are now exclusive to the Elemental list
- I've drastically reduced the size of the Construct list and removed Animated Objects. While not mentioned on the PDF, this can be picked back up either through Spheres of Power (Enhancement) or the animate objects I-VII spells from Rogue Genius Game's Construct Companion.
- A list of Aquatic creatures has been created so Deepwater eidolons won't feel left out. XD
Custom Summon Lists

CURRENT PROJECT: Go through the NPC/Villains Codexes to see if they could be a viable option for an Ancestor eidolon list.