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Hey guys,
I just wanted to know what are your favorite Classes in the game from a mechanical and design standpoint? You can count Archetypes in it if you want it. And I don’t ask for your favorite to play, but just the ones that are, for you, the most well designed. I think it could help new players to have an idea about what to play, and the designers could get inspiration from it for PF2 or future supplements. Here I go.
1. Vigilante. This is by far the class I think is the most well designed in the game. Outside the roleplay part (which I personally like), I think the class emphasizes what Rogues and Figthers should have been able to do in like a loooong time. The Class just break the rules in many ways with its Vigilante tricks, allows for a lots of différents and effectives builds, and just empowers the imagination of the players.
2. Mesmerist. Finally someone that can land crow control in an easy way. A jack of all trades whose mains focus is debuff and not buffs, and that can do it with regularity and efficiency. The stares are quite good and funs, and the class is easy to build and understand. A lots of archetypes fill nice roleplay/mechanical niches, and this is just perfect to play a borderline character in a good group. Moreover this is in many ways a support class that is interesting to play, so yeah for team play.
3. Arcanist. Counterspells in immediate actions, mobility and teleport at low level, ability to push the DC of spells, more variety in spellcasting than what we are used to... To be honest I find the Arcanist to be, in a scenario where you don’t know the game that well and don’t use all the books, a bit overpowered in what it allows you to do. But the Class is full of opportunities and interesting things to do, and can fill whatever “master of magic” fantasy you got.
That’s it for me. Like I said these are not specifically ma top 3 favorite to play (Vigilante is but the other ones are Occultist and Core Monk), but just the ones where I think Paizo nailed it 100%.
I agree with Cavall concerning the alchemist and barbarian... can't decide on a third... while I like the arcanist, the fact it has delayed access to higher level spells (even rather than odd level like the wizard)... maybe the sorcerer, they took what 3.5 had, and made it even more glossy, shiny, and full of story.
Warblade, Warder and StalkerCommoner, Warrior, Expert. They do what they were designed to do perfectly.
I did not expect that one, nicely done!
Yeah I figured that the Alchemist would have a lots of love. But I find the class a little bit too complex sometimes.
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1. Psychic. I am already a fan of sorcerer with its clear focus and (relatively) simple mechanics, and psychic improves the approach further. It gets rid of the entire focus on a single ability score, due to its phrenic pool. Amplifications can do a lot of things, but you learn them at a reasonable speed. Each discipline is unique, not only because of its powers, but also in its way to regain pool points and that you can choose between Charisma and Wisdom as secondary score. Bonus spells come earlier than for sorcerers, so they really help to shape the character. Finally there is a capstone with several possible choices to look forward to.
2. Slayer. It has a clear mission and does away with many of the cumbersome details of ranger (favored enemy, favored terrain, animal companion). You get decent combat ability on a silver plate, unlike a rogue where you have to spend some thoughts on build and playstyle. I am not eager to play one, but I appreciate the handy design.
3. Brawler. It gets rid of all the esoteric parts of monk, so you get a simplistic and capable melee combatant. Martial flexibility is as complex as you make it - you can go with always the same feats or make up elaborate lists for different situations. And if you don't like it, you can easily trade it away. Lately I discovered that the class is quite nice for NPC development.
So overall I like a focused design which still offers a bunch of options.
Inquisitor is the battle cleric par excellence, very solid mechanics.
Bard: Perfect Upgrade from 3.5
Paladin: powerful Martial, easy to Build, flavourful
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don't agree about the brawler... I find combat versatility a horrible design element... requires far too much system mastery to be used meaningfully... and that comes from a guy who loves spellcasters.
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Inquisitor
Slayer
Alchemist
Honorable mention to oracle. I love it so much but there are too many crappy mysteries and curses.
Inquisitor
Slayer
AlchemistHonorable mention to oracle. I love it so much but there are too many crappy mysteries and curses.
ditto
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Inquisitor - filling the need for a medium BAB divine spellcaster perfectly.
Bloodrager - Love these guys. Melee monster with cool abilities and just a bit of casting. So much potential.
Unchained Rogue - a much needed rebalance for a core class, finally giving the rogue a chance to shine.
Barbarian - a martial class that has nice things
Alchemist - Paizo found enough variety in a single concept to make a class
Oracle - as powerful as a cleric but more flavor and less healbot. I save the crappy mysteries for NPCs.
I cannot rate the occult classes because I have never seen them played. I would like to give a callout to Unchained Rogue as the best re-designed class.
Inquisitor - filling the need for a medium BAB divine spellcaster perfectly.
Bloodrager - Love these guys. Melee monster with cool abilities and just a bit of casting. So much potential.
Unchained Rogue - a much needed rebalance for a core class, finally giving the rogue a chance to shine.
isn't the Cleric a medium bab divine caster? Sorry, but what does the inquisitor have that the cleric can't do?
Bloodrager... nice, but top three best design? really? I must admit that the hybrid classes from the ACG tend to be a bit too complex and finicky and require too much system mastery to get into my top listing... then again, I might change my mind if I had an opportunity to upractice with them
[snip]
Oracle - as powerful as a cleric but more flavor and less healbot. I save the crappy mysteries for NPCs.[snip] I would like to give a callout to Unchained Rogue as the best re-designed class.
I don't get you, the oracle is horribly limited compared to a cleric by the small number of spells he knows (thou he does make up with other abilities)... and I can't see how it's less of a heal bot when you see that the only cleric spells an oracle has automatically are precisely the cure spells... and please don't even think of the healer potential of a Life oracle...
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Rogue
Medium
Shifter
Heh...
But seriously.
Occultist is the pinnacle of "blank canvas". You can create whatever kind of character you want, all of which have tools built into the class to realize the niche and character concept you desire, and none of which leave you hyper-focused and unable to solve problems other than your specialty. On top of that, the flavor of the class is rich, yet largely ignorable for players more interested in the crunch of play.
Vigilante is another great class that offers players a wide array of balanced options for character creation. The draw here, though, is that the Vigilante loses a lot of its written in flavor and fun if the setting doesn't match.
Slayer took all the niche-flexibility of the Ranger and removed the built-in woodsman abilities that went to waste in urban settings, making a deadly martial class that felt like what the Rogue wanted to be all along.
isn't the Cleric a medium bab divine caster? Sorry, but what does the inquisitor have that the cleric can't do?Inquisitor - filling the need for a medium BAB divine spellcaster perfectly.
Bloodrager - Love these guys. Melee monster with cool abilities and just a bit of casting. So much potential.
Unchained Rogue - a much needed rebalance for a core class, finally giving the rogue a chance to shine.
Inquisitors have many more skill points and better class skills than clerics. They get better weapon proficiencies than clerics out of the starting block, they have a slightly different spell list with some unique spells on it and they have lots more fiddly bits than clerics so are generally more interesting than the blandest of mechanically bland classes.
mmmh, I see, I do tend to like mechanically bland classes without too many fiddly bits... it's a game I play for pleasure, not something I want to work on too hard.
mmmh, I see, I do tend to like mechanically bland classes without too many fiddly bits... it's a game I play for pleasure, not something I want to work on too hard.
Don't get me wrong, I have played many clerics in my years of gaming and I think it's a great class, especially with PF's addition of channeling to the 3.5 chassis. For years, though, I wanted to play a rogue/cleric. I was never satisfied what I could come up with, even using that 3.5 PrC designed for the purpose (nightshade stalker or something like that), until we switched to PF. Inquisitor was pretty much exactly what I was looking for all that time.
2 skill points/level is brutal and remains my least favourite thing about clerics. Herald caller FTW nowadays LOL
Oh and I also tend to trade away judgements with the sanctified slayer archetype when playing inquisitor. That makes the fiddly bits a little more manageable, a little more basic.
mmmh, I see, I do tend to like mechanically bland classes without too many fiddly bits... it's a game I play for pleasure, not something I want to work on too hard.Don't get me wrong, I have played many clerics in my years of gaming and I think it's a great class, especially with PF's addition of channeling to the 3.5 chassis. For years, though, I wanted to play a rogue/cleric. I was never satisfied what I could come up with, even using that 3.5 PrC designed for the purpose (nightshade stalker or something like that), until we switched to PF. Inquisitor was pretty much exactly what I was looking for all that time.
2 skill points/level is brutal and remains my least favourite thing about clerics. Herald caller FTW nowadays LOL
Oh and I also tend to trade away judgements with the sanctified slayer archetype when playing inquisitor. That makes the fiddly bits a little more manageable, a little more basic.
OK, and yeah, 2Skill pts/lvl is ridiculously low... one reason I hate the generally practiced point b uys as insufficient, you just need a somewhat boosted intelligence for the added skill pts.
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1. Occultist - By a country mile, this class is the most versatile, exciting and creative to me. It can fight well, it has a healthy amount of spells/day and spells known, it can actually afford to invest in its casting stat without losing much martial prowess thanks to resonant powers. A beautiful puzzle box of a class and despite having no bonus feats it can perform a variety of roles.
2. Bloodrager - I'm more of a caster guy, but this package managed to make full-bab fun. The bloodlines are much better designed than the sorceror ones and between those, spells and weapon choice you have a lot of different approaches to differentiate your bloodrager. It's also an amazing dip because it's easy to justify and a welcome flavour infusion rather than just taking a level of fighter for proficiency and a feat.
3. Warpriest - A real Holy Warrior, or should I say Holy Fighter. One of the only classes where I feel 2+int (and no room to invest in int) is justified. I've always loved the idea of marching into battle decked out in blessings, and this is the only class that does it right. Fights like a full-bab character, with the feat selection to back it up, while having just enough spell selection to let you change roles in non-combat situations.
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No particular order:
Slayer- it's simple and effective, requiring no in depth game mastery to make work, and work well. Also an excellent chassis for NPC designing.
Warpriest- holy crap! This class is set up to get it done. Maybe not the best class for beginners, but it still doesn't take too much game mastery to build a Warpriest that can master the game.
Bloodrager- I think they did a great job with simplifying the Sorcerer and simultaneously expanding the Barbarian. I find this to be a brilliant combination even though I haven't played one.
Honorable mention:
Paladin and UC Rogue- wonderful improvements making them not just playable, but actually helpful.
I don't get you, the oracle is horribly limited compared to a cleric by the small number of spells he knows (thou he does make up with other abilities)... and I can't see how it's less of a heal bot when you see that the only cleric spells an oracle has automatically are precisely the cure spells... and please don't even think of the healer potential of a Life oracle...[snip]
Oracle - as powerful as a cleric but more flavor and less healbot. I save the crappy mysteries for NPCs.[snip] I would like to give a callout to Unchained Rogue as the best re-designed class.
The oracle mystery gives the the class a specialization. Specializing is more limiting, but it makes the oracle the best at that one thing. I have seen a battle oracle who fought better than the paladin in the party. I have played an NPC time oracle, Amaya in Jade Regent, who had mobility and insight to manipulate the battlefield and the plotline.
I have also played many clerics, back in D&D, and seen others play Pathfinder clerics. They are generalists, having an answer to many problems, but never being the best in situations where the best is called for. Their niche is healing and condition removal, which are mostly conducted after the pressure is off. Like any 9-spell-level caster, the cleric can be optimized to overwhelming power, but such casters seem more gamebreaking than flavorful, which is a design flaw.
The struggle against limits is part of roleplaying. I don't see limitations caused by successful specialization as a flaw, so long as the character can perform useful actions both in and out of combat.
To be honest I see a lots of names that were close to my own list. Alchemist and Oracle were not a surprise. Slayer too. I really love Occultist and it is true that the ability to put your points wherever you want is really nice. And it is probably one of the best flavor in the game.
But huge surprise for the success of the Psychic, I will have to try one fore sure.
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To be honest I see a lots of names that were close to my own list. Alchemist and Oracle were not a surprise. Slayer too. I really love Occultist and it is true that the ability to put your points wherever you want is really nice. And it is probably one of the best flavor in the game.
But huge surprise for the success of the Psychic, I will have to try one fore sure.
I've yet to play a psychic but I've played in games that had them. They really are just much better designed sorcerers with a strongly flavoured spell list imo. I find the disciplines much more interesting than bloodlines - and that's before getting into the differences of psychic casting and its skill unlocks.
Bloodrager- Purely because I looked at it initially like, "how does that even WORK?" And then... it works. It works pretty friggin' well, actually.
Psychic- Pretty much sorcerers done better, as far as mechanics go.
Slayer- Fightier than a rogue, rogueier than a Ranger, which hits a nice sweet spot for me. Although I still like Rangers a lot, I'm tired of making every. Single. One. A Skirmisher.
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For a new player…
Unchained Rogue
Unchained Barbarian
For more experienced players
Kineticist: The type of character most players wanted to play when they created a wizard. I can’t wait to have this class in V2, both of my young daughters created one. The only design flaws are that they wait too long to grant some infusions and the Wild Talent feat shouldn’t be limited by level -2.
Alchemist: Many different ways to create an alchemist.
Hunter: A much needed archetype that wasn’t done well by either the Druid or Ranger. With the Hunter, I’d say you can almost remove the Ranger.
Inquisitor: Diverse, well balanced, easy to create out of the box.
Unchained Summoner: Another needed archetype that is diverse and flavorful.
Between Hunter and Slayer, I would definitely agree that the Ranger need not exist. They solved it, you have better options both directions you want to play the Ranger character.
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1. Occultist - By a country mile, this class is the most versatile, exciting and creative to me. It can fight well, it has a healthy amount of spells/day and spells known, it can actually afford to invest in its casting stat without losing much martial prowess thanks to resonant powers. A beautiful puzzle box of a class and despite having no bonus feats it can perform a variety of roles.
I hope focus powers are the new bar for "spell point" abilities in 2E, and the only reason I didn't list the Occultist (despite it being my favourite class) was that it took me 4 months with the rulebook to understand it.
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Magus
Spiritualist
Hunter
I like my fiddly bits and enough options to create diverse builds.
Alchemist.
Psychic.
Vigilante.
Please note, these are just classes that I find are fun to make characters from, I have absolutely zero experience designing classes, so you might as well ask me my favorite engines to install in a car.
Bard, Inquisitor, Barbarian.
All of them can do enough damage to be respectable, have some out of combat utility, all while not being too powerful.
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Inquisitor - filling the need for a medium BAB divine spellcaster perfectly.
Bloodrager - Love these guys. Melee monster with cool abilities and just a bit of casting. So much potential.
Unchained Rogue - a much needed rebalance for a core class, finally giving the rogue a chance to shine.
isn't the Cleric a medium bab divine caster? Sorry, but what does the inquisitor have that the cleric can't do?
Bloodrager... nice, but top three best design? really? I must admit that the hybrid classes from the ACG tend to be a bit too complex and finicky and require too much system mastery to get into my top listing... then again, I might change my mind if I had an opportunity to upractice with them
From my own personal experience which may well differ from others:
The cleric seems built to do one thing well, and struggles to do anything but that one thing (be it healing or negative channeling).The inquisitor has the tools to be all kinds of different concepts, while maintaining the 'holy warrior' archetype. It offers a lot of interesting choices, which I like.
Alchemist, Inquisitor, Investigator
However, this doesn't match up with what gets played most often.
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Inquisitor
Alchemist
Bloodrager