Hello all, this is my first post on the forum and I need your suggestions.
You can tell from the title what this is about.
Getting into it, we're all level 7 and my party consists of a Gnoll Investigator named Gnoll Phelps (this is my character, and I love him), a Catfolk Unchained Monk, a Half-Elf Gunslinger, and a Fetchling "Distortionist".
The Distortionist is a custom class made by the guy playing him, and he's a very experienced player who values balance, so the GM allowed him to play it. For all sakes and purposes, consider his custom class a Sorcerer as reference.
Anyways, the way it's set up is that me and the Monk are supposed to fight up frontline while the Gunslinger and "Sorcerer" hang back at attack.
But the problem here is that no one can use anything above light armor, none of us use shields without maybe masterwork bucklers, so AC is an issue.
I'll organize the problems with each person individually.
The Catfolk Unchained Monk:
See, something you should know about this player is that he's the "I want to help everyone! I know how to be useful!" player. He loves Paladins outside of Pathfinder and it was his first class when he started Pathfinder, and he played it Lawful Stupid.
He ended up changing to a cleric later on because the alignment restriction was too much for him to handle, and tried to do everything(melee damage, ranged damage, magic damage, healer, frontliner), so he was a jack of all trades, master of none. He had been choked unconscious by a mini-boss trying to frontline, dropped a fireball on me and another player trying to kill some spiders, and ended up dying because he chose to use Cure Moderate Wounds on just me when we surrounded instead of using channel energy to heal both of us(and yes, he had selective channeling).
He later ended up being a Summoner and summoning an Archon to help us frontline (even though I was a Antipaladin at the time and my other friend was a Brawler). So naturally, you can see my friend is not good at deciding what is the best approach for the situation.
So then this friend decided he wanted to play a Monk of Many Styles, so he has no flurry of blows, and he's building only towards defensive styles. He's built this Monk to use Archon Style and Crane Style together. The idea is to direct attacks towards himself, deflect or dodge the hit, and then him and the ally get an attack of opportunity.
His feats: Combat Expertise, Crane Style(bonus feat), Dodge, Archon Style(bonus feat), Crane Wing, Archon Diversion, and the a wildcard style slot.
Here's the problems though.
1. It takes him two whole turns to start Crane Style and Archon Style.
2. He can only divert an attack once per round, which will suck at higher levels.
3. I'm the only other melee combatant, so only I can get the attacks of opportunity from his Archon Style feats.
4. He has to claim he's activating Archon Diversion's effect while adjacent to an ally and an enemy, and it's a move action.
As you might be able to tell, he's trying to make a Tank out of Monk, which is something I didn't think anyone would try to legitamately attempt. It's probably not gonna go well and the party will suffer because of it, and that's sadly all I can say.
The Half-Elf Gunslinger:
Now that we're done with him, we move to my other friend playing a gunslinger. Our first session we fought two Gnolls on Hyaenodons. He decided he wanted to test out Called Shots for the battle. And not just once. BUT EVERY ROUND. He could've been full attacking the Gnolls or the Hyaenodons, but nope, he felt the need to shoot them one time every turn, so that they would get a small debuff(when they could've just been dead).
He said later he was just testing it out and I hope he was being serious, cause I don't want to deal with that every encounter. Other than that, he should be alright.
The Fetchling "Sorcerer":
He's the most experienced out of everyone in the party, so I'm not too worried about him. He's built this character simply to be our magic damage of the group, and I trust him to do so.
The Gnoll Investigator:
And then there's me. My Investigator is built to be a skill junkie and too be good damage.
For the skill junkie portion, I get 10 skill ranks per level, and I have both Expanded Inspiration and Underworld Inspiration, so I get a free d6 on almost every skill.
For the damage portion, I have 16 Str, and a +1 Shocking Bastard Sword, so with a Studied Combat/Strike I get 3d6+1d10+7 damage on one hit. I also have a Poisoning Sheathe with Purple Worm Poison currently inside of it, so I can keep sheathing and drawing my weapon to lessen my opponents' Str.
I've built this character pretty well I think, but even with my +2 Mithral Shirt and +1 Buckler, I only have 22 AC, which isn't bad at all, but when I'm forced to be the frontline with d8's for health, it can get rough sometimes.
So that's my team. I'm not sure what all I could do to increase my own effective further and make up for some shortcomings of my team, or if the other players might need to do something. I've contemplated just saving Gnoll Phelps for another time and just playing an Area Control Fighter or an Invulnerable Barbarian with a 1 level dip into Oracle.
Any advice or suggestions are appreciated!
Monks can get their ACs up surprisingly high. It might be fine. Meanwhile, there is little reason why your party Monk can't wear Armor. He's a Monk, Master of Many Styles. The main penalty for wearing Armor is that the Monk loses Flurry of Blows, and MOMS Monks dont' get Flurry of Blows. Monks don't get Armor Proficiency, though. He'd probably have to dip into a level in something to get Proficiency with some kind of Armor. He probably shouldn't wear heavier than Light Armor, because he'll be getting the Evasion Class Ability. I'd keep an eye out and see if your party Monk is as squishy as you fear. Suggest dipping and suiting up if it turns out he needs a helpful suggestion. But like I said, it might be fine.
A party can do all right even if nobody is a tank. It means you are committed to keep your enemies at arms' length and kill them from afar, retreating as they advance, feathering them to death with your arrows as they surge after you as helplessly as terriers barking after sparrows.
The problem isn't getting his AC high. I'm aware Monk's can have insanely high AC. The problem is he's trying to make a tank that needs very specific positioning, and due to our setup we're very spread out from each other, so the reason for him not wearing armor is because he needs fast movement just to get into a good position without getting AoO. Also, not to mention he'd lose his AC bonus too.
It gets to a point where being an Area Control Fighter or something similar would be a lot better for him.
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Barkskin, Mutagen and Shield gives you +11 AC at lvl 7, so you should be OK for AC on your Investigator. Even a 12 Dex would give you 28 AC with a +2 Mithril Chain Shirt. Add in a deflection bonus (the Sorcerer could learn Magic Circle against Evil) and you should be fine.
By the way, a longspear-using reach investigator works well.
Barkskin, Mutagen and Shield gives you +11 AC at lvl 7, so you should be OK for AC on your Investigator. Even a 12 Dex would give you 28 AC with a +2 Mithril Chain Shirt. Add in a deflection bonus (the Sorcerer could learn Magic Circle against Evil) and you should be fine.
By the way, a longspear-using reach investigator works well.
I had forgotten already that I'd taken the Shield extract, so I could just grab Barkskin and get 29 AC right there. Combine that with a Bear's Endurance and I should be able to handle quite a bit.
And I did think about a long spear, but I need to use a sword for my Poisoning Sheathe, and I needed a free hand so I didn't use up the Buckler AC, and so I could drink potions/extracts with the spare hand.
A Long Arm extract or Enlarge Person will help with the reach idea though.
Pathfinder does not have a solid tanking mechanic. If a character has high AC yet low damage, the enemies' best strategy is to kill the others first. Fortunately, under a good GM, only intelligent enemies will realize that.
The party in my current campaign: human fighter/investigator, human bloodrager, dwarf gunslinger/rogue, half-elf magus, and strix skald--does not use a frontline. No character is squishy, all characters are mobile, so they skirmish. Your party composition sounds like that style would suit them, too. A gunslinger has a great AC due to Nimble ability, the distortionist should know defensive magic, the monk has high AC, and your investigator should be able to handle himself in a fight. Why spend effort holding a position instead of defeating enemies? Take out their weak points instead.
As a skirmisher, the Master of Many Styles monk can switch styles to one that counters his current enemy. That player might enjoy that and it would be easier than tanking. If he prefers tanking, he can be the personal bodyguard of the distortionist.
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I agree with Mathmuse.
The composition of your party may not be so much the problem as the tactics used.
Try talking about battle strategy between fights, adapt your positioning on the battlefield to best use everyone's strongest features.
You don't have to meet and hold the enemy on a single front, in fact, that is often folly.
That’s fair.
I frankly don’t care much about team comp myself, as long as it’s not pushing it too much.
Thought maybe there would be some suggestions on possible class change options for our situation, but it does seem like the planning ahead idea works.
Your team's monk shouldn't be spending the first two rounds of every combat activating styles. You only have to activate them once, once in your entire life. There is not penalty for having style feats active, so just always walk around in a ready combat stance.
Your team's monk shouldn't be spending the first two rounds of every combat activating styles. You only have to activate them once, once in your entire life. There is not penalty for having style feats active, so just always walk around in a ready combat stance.
This was my understanding of it, as well.
It's not Rage, you don't run out of rounds to use your style(s). At the very most, start them each time you wake up if the GM actually wants you to spend actions on it, otherwise, enter your style(s) the day you get them and never exit said style(s).
The comp isn't bad you just need to work out how to control the field and provide better support for one another.
You have plenty of damage by the sounds of it so helping boost eachother's defenses will help. More importantly you need to get your control up.
Read some of the articles under this alias, particularly the Forge strategy ones and the Passive Aggressive tanking one to give you some good ideas on where to go with this. Like I said the group is fine but could use a bit of polish on its tactics and focus.
Your team's monk shouldn't be spending the first two rounds of every combat activating styles. You only have to activate them once, once in your entire life. There is not penalty for having style feats active, so just always walk around in a ready combat stance.
That is RAW, but extremely against RAI. Why do you think did they wrote that you can't activate a style outside of combat when that's only relevant once in your character's life? Intend is clearly that stances cease when combat ends.
In any case, that's mostly irrelevant next level, as an 8th level MoMS can enter three stances as a swift action.
I also agree with the others that the team composition isn't the problem. I'd say the issue is that you have too many party members trying to do fancy stuff that doesn't really affect the combat. The Archon/Crane combo isn't actually that bad, but it only works once per round, and only against one enemy. Does he do anything offensive? To be fair, MoMS is crap below 8th level.
You've said all that needs to be said regarding called shots (which really extends to anything that prevents him from making a full attack, including the crappy 7th level deeds). Also, for the record, Gunslinger is a dead class after 5th level, I'd suggest multiclassing to counteract his apparent boredom.
Is it too late for the Gunslinger to take a level of Spellslinger and then go Eldritch Archer (or is it Myrmidarch) Magus?
That is rich. I've never heard of that trickery, but it's hilarious and wonderful.
Imagine a Barbarian with Come Get Me posing as a Wizard, then he goes all rage mode after everyone surrounds him.
That is freaking funny. Excellent use of the bluff skill, as well.
Can you hire a mercenary/sellsword? That’s extra work for your GM to run him, so maybe offer to run him yourself? Maybe you can purchase the freedom of a gladiator, or meet a fighter/Barbarian of sorts at ye old local tavern, or something. For balancing reasons, this NPC would probably have to be two levels lower than you, similar to the leadership feat and cohort rules.
Cohorts, summons, and companions are tricks for bad tactics. My opinion. Feel free to ignore me.