An "elfiest elf" using leafblade / thornblade?

[Redblade8]

Hey,

I'm intrigued by these two additions to the elven arsenal. How would one make best use of those weapons on an elf with a focus on face-stabbing? Could one go fighter, focus hard on Dex/Int, and use the Elven Battle Style feats to good effect?

Thanks.

Ghorrin Redblade (Leafblade? Redleaf?)

[Faelyn]

I would say that is a good route, but I would definitely look into the Lore Warden archetype to get good use out of your focus on Int and Dex.

If you end up focusing more on Int than Dex, you may also want to look into the Student of War prestige class to gain your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class.

[Redblade8]

Faelyn wrote:

I would say that is a good route, but I would definitely look into the Lore Warden archetype to get good use out of your focus on Int and Dex.

If you end up focusing more on Int than Dex, you may also want to look into the Student of War prestige class to gain your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class.

I see where you're going with Lore Warden, my yellow-flags there are losing shields (bucklers, specifically), and losing Bravery (and thus the various Will-save fixes). Am I being overly hesitant?

This was the first time Student of War came on my radar; my that looks interesting, thanks! Does the old Duelist PrC put anything on the table with a guy like this, you think?

Thanks again.

[Faelyn]

I would highly suggest looking at Duel-Wielding with those two weapons. By themselves, you are not going to be putting up much damage alone. They would work great as a pair though, which is typically how I've seen such weapons work.

As far as Bravery and Shield go, Bravery only provides you a bonus versus Fear effects, not all Will saves. There are much better options to look at for boosting your Will saves (traits, feats, etc). It does suck a bit to lose your shield proficiency; however, you are going to be focusing on Dex and Int (especially if you go the route of Student of War) and that single attribute focus will definitely assist you in keeping your AC up.

[RickDias]

I'm not sure if this is where you want to go with it, but the Unchained Rogue can add Dex to damage on some of the weapons you're discussing. Might be worth taking a few levels?

[Doomed Hero]

If you want to make the elfiest elf possible, make sure to take Craft: Baking and Craft: Toymaking.

[Redblade8]

Faelyn wrote:

As far as Bravery and Shield go, Bravery only provides you a bonus versus Fear effects, not all Will saves.

Ah but there are options these days to apply your Bravery bonus to either all mind-affecting or all Will, depending on the option chosen. That ups Bravery's stock a fair amount, i think.

[graystone]

Redblade8 wrote:

Hey,

I'm intrigued by these two additions to the elven arsenal. How would one make best use of those weapons on an elf with a focus on face-stabbing? Could one go fighter, focus hard on Dex/Int, and use the Elven Battle Style feats to good effect?

Thanks.

Ghorrin Redblade (Leafblade? Redleaf?)

The issue with fighter or brawler and those weapons is they have no official weapon group as far as I know: as such, some class features aren't going to be of much use. Make sure to have your DM rule on a weapon group before you go too far with a character using them.

Unofficially, the creator of the weapons said she'd put them in the light blades group.

Isabelle Lee wrote:

As the creator and writer of both blades, I'd say light blade for both. I'm not an official rules authority, though, so don't cite my opinion as anything but advisory. ^_^

[lemeres]

Doomed Hero wrote:

If you want to make the elfiest elf possible, make sure to take Craft: Baking and Craft: Toymaking.

also craft:shoes and profession:hair stylist.

[Ventnor]

Ranger is one of the elfiest classes there is, and one that's pretty good if you are intent of dual-wielding.

[Redblade8]

@graystone, Very good point. But if a DM is gonna bust my hump over those weapons having no group, I'd take that as a large, flashing neon warning sign.

[graystone]

Redblade8 wrote:

@graystone, Very good point. But if a DM is gonna bust my hump over those weapons having no group, I'd take that as a large, flashing neon warning sign.

It's not a matter of 'hump busting' really but being on the same page.

For instance a DM might make a leafblade a light blade or close while making a thorn blade a heavy blade. It's a total matter of taste since it's not official so they might not fall into the same group in the DM's mind. This might make one 'better' depending on other rules that requires different groups or what weapon training you take. IMO its best to confirm so both you and the DM can plan ahead.

There is also the matter of games like PFS: I'm unsure how they deal with oddities like this that have nebulous rules, as they're meant to be played 'by the rules' but this is missing some info.

As to what the "ELFIEST ELF" would do... They'd focus fire with bows and spells and once the foe falls down, they move in and coup de grace their leaf/thornblade. ;)

[RealAlchemy]

Some really elfy elves use the elven curbeblade while doing Dex to damage using unchained rogue shenanigans.

[Redblade8]

RealAlchemy wrote:

Some really elfy elves use the elven curbeblade while doing Dex to damage using unchained rogue shenanigans.

Very true, but the curve blade has been around a while. I'm looking at these weapons, as the newer additions to the collection.

[Lucy_Valentine]

I think there are significant problems with Elven Battle Focus as a goal. The earliest it works is level 4, so that's three levels of being pretty bad before it kicks in. Also you need four full-BAB levels, so if you're going for earliest entry you aren't being a wizard or an alchemist or anything else that actually uses Int. And you need five feats (two style, the tax EBT, finesse, and TWF), which means three bonus feats, which I think means two mandatory levels of fighter (not Lore Warden, unless you're allowed the old version) and a bonus feat from one of the other levels. And in the end... what? Instead of being dex+str, you're now dex+int, so you're pumping int for damage but you don't have anything else to do with Int except skills? You're still MAD and using a weak fighting style. Points for being elfy, though.

Whereas, the option exists to go unchained rogue (swashbuckler), get your finesse for free, and be using twin leafblades with dex damage on both of them, plus sneak attack, at level 3. And even that probably isn't as good as twin wakizashi on a tengu urogue.

I've long been tempted by the idea of a non-magical Elven Slayer, switching between bow and melee by using the bonus feats for archery. But that's still MAD and wasting the int bonus.

Also, pleased though I am to see more Elf weapons, PF still hates non-matching weapon pairs :(

[Lucy_Valentine]

The thornblade seems like it would work best on a magus. And the leafblade seems like it would go nicely in pairs on a urogue with Butterfly's Sting. After all, the crit isn't boosting your sneak attack, so you may as well hand it to your 2HF friend.

[Redblade8]

@Lucy_Valentine, just to clarify, I'm not necessarily looking at TWF here. Judging by some of your comments, I think you think I was looking to use both of these weapons at the same time (and if my assumption is incorrect, my bad). Just thinking about both of these weapons in the same thread, is all.

graystone wrote:

It's not a matter of 'hump busting' really but being on the same page.

In general I agree, but in the words of Mayor Quimby, it can be two things.

[Darklone]

Non magic Elfiest Elf evah:
Zen archer monk. You have an archer monk (with spider step feat) that can run over water and ropes, can shoot (if not grappled) without AoOs, can bash, kick, headbutt and stab in melee with arrows and shoots more arrows than anyone ... except sohei archers.

[Lucy_Valentine]

Redblade8 wrote:

Judging by some of your comments, I think you think I was looking to use both of these weapons at the same time (and if my assumption is incorrect, my bad).

Oh, sorry, my wrong assumption. I think I was also swayed by the weapon descriptions themselves which suggest using them together.

I do quite like that butterfly sting rogue idea, though. Maybe mixing rogue with ranger or slayer to get archery feats if Elves and bows is the elfiest.

[Serisan]

Pick one and Bladebound Kensai it up? It's very elfy.