So a campaign I'm running is possibly wrapping up soon due to lack of time/energy for the homebrewing and will be looking to start an AP to ease my stress. However nobody, myself included, really wants to start over at first level. And so I'm trying to think what AP can do well if you skip the first book. Something that I don't have to dictate too much through exposition to get it going, just a quick "you guys did this now go". I do have some experience with running/playing APs so I have my own ideas but was interested in what other GMs/players thought?
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All of the Giant slayer first book happens within about 3 days. I would actually recommend you play it, as it is super fast, but book 2 is a good launch point.
Skull & Shackles book 1 is pretty forgettable. The initial NPCs and railroad session lay groundwork for later stories, but a single paragraph of description gets you ready for book 2.
Curse of the crimson throne wouldn't make much sense to start at book 2.
Ironfang Invasion is driven by the components of book 1.
Rise of the runelords has some aspects that carry forward.
Kingmaker: No Way! Book 1 is vital.
Kingmaker: No Way! Book 1 is vital.
I don't agree, actually. You could get away with a paragraph sentence of description.
"Having made headway into taming the region known as the Stolen Lands, the government of Rostland has granted assistance to capable groups of people willing to lead -- and defend -- new settlements in the area."
And, if you wanted, you could pick and choose the fun and story-driving encounters from books 1 and 2, while discarding the filler encounters.
Legacy of Fire would work as well. The first book is largely detached from the main story arc of the AP.
For Serpent's Skull, Chapter 2 is probably the weakest chapter, so I wouldn't want to skip a great chapter 1 only to jump into a weaker one. Same applies to Wrath of the Righteous.
Kingmaker might work, but as far as wanting a lower overhead/lower prep campaign, it makes a bad choice.
Thanks for the ideas, Kingmaker was actually my idea for my first choice. I've run it twice before so the additional prep wouldn't be too bad for me. Unfortunately one of the players in the groups is someone I've run the campaign for already and he's with me in another group that's playing a homebrew (with a different GM) that's doing a kingdom centered game so I didn't want to overload him with more of the "same". Giantslayer was probably my second choice as I've played that through book 3-ish, and I remember the first book being largely unnecessary. I do plan on being in Serpent's Skull as a player soon so that one's out. Council of Thieves ends a lot earlier than most APs right? I'm not sure that'd deliver the higher level play they're gonna want to get to. I will look into Legacy of Fire though, I've got those sitting on my bookshelf actually. I've never really leafed through 'em, and maybe that'd be a good opportunity, though they'd require translating to PF (I have to be really thorough with that or my brain starts hurting).
Mummy's Mask. THe pc's show up for a auction and get caught up in the city going to hell. Book one literally feels like its purpose is to get PCs to the lv needed for book 2.
Having played through, I don't think Second Darkness or Legacy of Fire are good options.
Kingmaker has pros and cons, as you know.
Runelords I was just thinking last week would be fine to start after Book 1 - the PCs are "Local Heroes" and strange things begin to happen.
Council of Thieves the first book seems very important, since the next 2-3 don't really tie in to the Council itself very well.
Mummy's Mask - book 1 is great, but Vorsk is right that they could easily pick up at the auction (perhaps the group just got a load of gps to spend, or a large single item that none can use?). The exploration in Book 1 is nice, but there's plenty of dungeon crawl through the rest.
Second Darkness ?? Considering the book 1 is quite deconnected to the rest of the campaign, that seems the best fit for me.
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Runelords I was just thinking last week would be fine to start after Book 1 - the PCs are "Local Heroes" and strange things begin to happen.
I disagree with you on this. You need the heroes to have a strong connection to Sandpoint, for the beginning of Book 4 to make sense.
Skull & Shackles works quite well starting with Book 2 (though book 2 is not the strongest of the AP).
Skipping Serpent Skull chapter one would be terrible. IMHO, this might be the best start of any AP to date.
It's amazing as a stand alone adventure, and is even better as a prequel to Skull and Shackles (finally being rescued.... though you may wish otherwise as the rescuing ship is the Wormwood). I'd skip chapters 5 and 6 and end this AP at 4. The Urdefhan kind of sour me on the end of this AP. Finding the Lost City of Seven Spears would be enough.
Skipping Skull and Shackles first chapter depends on how well the NPCs come to life in your game. A lot of the other ship mates return throughout the campaign in various chapters. It's a good bit of continuity if used but less memorable if PCs have no previous ties to them.
Skipping Harrowstone in Carrion Crown is easier as Kendra could be found in Lepidstadt just as well. Beginning in Ravengro as a starting point, grabbing the books and heading to Lepidstadt immediately works too.
YMMV, Harrowstone has great atmosphere but not much else that can't be found in other chapters.
The Funeral however, is the key to good foreshadowing. The guest list can establish some strong ties to the rest of the chapters (you can look at other forum posters guest lists about this). The funeral (and any expanded guest lists, I personally added Hetna Dublesse to my campaign outline as a former BFF of kendra's as well as a former assistant to the late professor) can take place in Lepidstadt though I would have more emphasis on the wake held at the university, and less emphasis on the actual funeral.
Skipping part one of Kingmaker again as in Skull and Shackles depends on your group and how much life you breath into the NPCs. Chapters one and two have NPCs that can be a major part of the kingdom. If you make your own NPCs, or have other memorable NPCs from elsewhere (if they started in another module instead of Stolen Land), then you are golden.
I also vote "not to be skipped" for Runelords. Sandpoint is iconic, it would be like ditching Hommlet in the classic Temple of Elemental Evil. The Sandpoint residents, location, hinterlands, lore, etc. just works as a great base to continue through the campaign. There are the occasional journeys north and east, a pit stop south and such but a large portion is invested in Sandpoint until the last two chapters. It's not impossible to relocate, just seems criminal to me, YMMV of course.
Ironfang Invasion would be easiest IMHO. Beat up a different random town, grab some NPC's from said town. Hide in nearby wilderness, etc. There really isn't much time building a relationship with the residents of Phaendar anyway.
As for other AP's, i'd have to go back and look. The above are examples in my head that stick out the most.
On Runelords, I would say "It depends." Book 1 is not tied to the main plot line. You don't really have to have solved/defeated the BBEG of Book 1 to readily find your way through the rest of the Books. Yes, the BBEG of Book 2 has influenced the BBEG of Book 1 but I would guess several groups play the AP without ever learning that because it happens entirely off-screen and months/years prior to the start of the AP.
However, Book 1 is meant to introduce Sandpoint and get the pc's attached to it, as the AP returns there repeatedly and with the town in significant peril each time.
So, if your players are the kind that can live with some meta-game rails - you are from Sandpoint, your pc's need to care about it, etc. then you could skip it. If on the other hand your players come up with all kinds of crazy motivations and your only chance of getting them to care about Sandpoint is to role-play their interaction with the townsfolk, etc. then skipping Book 1 would be problematic.
However, Book 1 is meant to introduce Sandpoint and get the pc's attached to it, as the AP returns there repeatedly and with the town in significant peril each time.So, if your players are the kind that can live with some meta-game rails - you are from Sandpoint, your pc's need to care about it, etc. then you could skip it.
The only thing about the quote above I disagree with is the meta game rails example. You do not have to be from Sandpoint. When i ran through Burnt Offerings, none of my players had a character actually from Sandpoint. The Player's Guide may encourage being a local, but it wasn't necessary and not even a thought for us on either side of the screen.
My player's cared a great deal for the personas of Sandpoint by the end of the book (just before the TPK sadly).Other than that, you can alter anything (in any AP), skip to Book two as mentioned by Latrecis, and make it work with some elbow grease.
As usual YMMV :)
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Thank you all for the ideas, especially Vorsk and Majuba for suggesting Mummy's Mask. I've run it before and really enjoyed it but for some reason it just didn't cross my mind when I was looking at the APs. I do like book 1 but aside from some forshadowing about the mask it doesn't really establish anything that carries on later down the line. Thanks again everyone I think my search is ended!
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Kingmaker: No Way! Book 1 is vital.I don't agree, actually. You could get away with a
paragraphsentence of description."Having made headway into taming the region known as the Stolen Lands, the government of Rostland has granted assistance to capable groups of people willing to lead -- and defend -- new settlements in the area."
And, if you wanted, you could pick and choose the fun and story-driving encounters from books 1 and 2, while discarding the filler encounters.
I never GM'd Kingmaker, but I felt as a PC we were exploring and laying the foundation for the entire 6 books. The purpose of the AP is to explore, incorporate, and eventually rule the area. I considered the hexploration a Book 1 feature, but the banditry and other encounters are OK.
If you started Kingmaker with book 2, you would still have to backtrack through portions of Book 1 to meet your NPCs (many of whom likely are part of your ruling council later on).
Leading and defending new settlements still requires some backtracking to work on what, and more importantly who, is already there.
Agree to disagree :-)
Kingmaker: No Way! Book 1 is vital.I don't agree, actually. You could get away with a
paragraphsentence of description."Having made headway into taming the region known as the Stolen Lands, the government of Rostland has granted assistance to capable groups of people willing to lead -- and defend -- new settlements in the area."
And, if you wanted, you could pick and choose the fun and story-driving encounters from books 1 and 2, while discarding the filler encounters.
I never GM'd Kingmaker, but I felt as a PC we were exploring and laying the foundation for the entire 6 books. The purpose of the AP is to explore, incorporate, and eventually rule the area. I considered the hexploration a Book 1 feature, but the banditry and other encounters are OK.
If you started Kingmaker with book 2, you would still have to backtrack through portions of Book 1 to meet your NPCs (many of whom likely are part of your ruling council later on).
Leading and defending new settlements still requires some backtracking to work on what, and more importantly who, is already there.
Agree to disagree :-)
Oh, I do. *shakes fist*
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I think Rise of the Runelords would work quite well without book 1.
We are currently playing through it (close to finishing book 5), and are enjoying it even though Sandpoint has never really resonated with us for some reason. It wouldn't have affected us at all if we'd started with book 2 (with the slight caveat that, since we are playing the one-volume version, I'm not completely sure where book 1 ends and book 2 begins!)
Could do carion crown would have to change couple things im mod 2 onther wise shouldn't be a problem, second darkness would work as would mummys mask, since both of Thoses first moduels have littel to do with main plot
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Could do carion crown would have to change couple things im mod 2 onther wise shouldn't be a problem, second darkness would work as would mummys mask, since both of Thoses first moduels have littel to do with main plot
yeah, but the first two modules of mummy's mask are really good, whereas the last two kinda suffer in comparison.