Well, I looked high and low for this, but I think I confused the the Distance enchantment for ranged weapons only or looked up something from 3.5.
I gave one of my players a Dwarven Longhammer with 15ft reach instead of 10. (Can hit things 10 and 15 feet away, not just 15ft away). The player is looking into upgrading the weapon now, and needs to know the enchantment cost of it. I was going to convert it into the Sharding enchantment, but that has a cost of +2 which would be out of budget for what I gave him.
So, I ask for help with this. Is an enchantment giving a bonus to reach (as if a size larger) worth only +1? If it is worth more, how can I bring it down in power to still give him the bonus to reach?
If the item was simply built that size there would be no +x equivalency. It would just be a slightly higher based cost (pretty inconsequential).
If it is somehow growing while used then perhaps there is. But giving an item that already had reach a little more reach is not nearly as consequential as giving reach to a weapon that did not start with reach.
The base price of a long hammer is 70 gold. I would just double the base price and say it was specially made.
But... if for some reason you believe it to be a little too powerful for such a small cost, I would leave it at a +1 equivalent or a static +4,000 gold. A +2 seems too much.
If it was not already a reach weapon then I would be all on board with a +2 or +3.
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I think it'd be worth a little higher than 4k if you were doing a flat bonus. 6k minimum, because that extra amount of reach is more than doubling the squares you control. Having played a Large character who used a reach weapon (so 15-20' reach, then 5-10' cestus), I have to say that it's an eminently effective fighting style when you have the space to fight.
But I don't think it's worth a full +2, either. It's hard to take advantage of your reach in a lot of campaigns, particularly when you have other meleers in your group or you spend a lot of time in dungeons. Since it sounds like you're doing a homebrew, it's worth looking at what you're planning for the game and seeing if this weapon is likely to be very useful in the future. If it's going to be super useful (lots of plains combats, annoyingly mobile enemies, even large monsters that expect to be able to abuse their reach), it's worth the +2, but otherwise the additional +1 is an arduous penalty. If you don't have plans that far, +1.
The closest thing I can think of is the Fighters Fork. It allows a trident to either gain reach or become a light weapon. 7,315 gp for a +1 but it's not a + ability you just have to pay for the increase the +1 to a +2.
Reach is a very powerful and highly desired thing in melee combat. Especially if the reach lets you threaten adjacent. Melee weapons are balanced around whether or not they give reach. It should be at least a +4 enhancement.
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Reach is a very powerful and highly desired thing in melee combat. Especially if the reach lets you threaten adjacent. Melee weapons are balanced around whether or not they give reach. It should be at least a +4 enhancement.
The fighters fork would seem to disagree by at least 3 plusses. The total of a +1 with extra reach is less than the cost of a +2 AND it comes with the ability to make it light so it can be used with TWF.
I think the thing about reach, and the reason they haven't had a telescoping enhancement yet, is that it's tricky to balance because "how good it is" depends mostly on "how much of it you have."
Going from 5 feet to 10 feet of reach is fine, and that's basically what Lunge does. On the other hand, when you go from 25 feet to 30 feet of reach, you're just making a bad situation sillier (I had a bloodrager in a S&S game who got up to 30 feet of reach; he could clear a ship's deck by himself.
An alternative solution, instead of having it be a property of the weapon itself, why not have another item that gives you more reach a la the Blue Swordsmaster's Flair?
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Reach is a very powerful and highly desired thing in melee combat. Especially if the reach lets you threaten adjacent. Melee weapons are balanced around whether or not they give reach. It should be at least a +4 enhancement.
Adding more reach to a weapon with reach does not add toooo much. Movement only provokes once (baring a few specialized abilities). It's not like every square they move through generates another AOO.
4k may be a bit cheap.
Doing the backwards math on the fighter's fork, it seems to be worth 5k.
7315 price - 2315g (for the +1 trident) = 5,000 for the size changing.
I'm generally in favor of letting martials have nice things. This is hardly game breaking when compared to dazing fireballs.
The blue swordmaster's flair gives more credence to the rough price.
If requiring a panache point to activate was considered a "drawback" it would probably be of the 30% discount variety. More substantial than having minimum skill ranks (10% discount) and less substantial than taking negative levels or sacrificing creatures (50% discount)
see rule for intentionally crafting items with drawbacks
If we assume the 30% discount this would give us a base price of 3,571 for the ability to add reach.
Bottom line, based on the two example items people found, the rough price is 4,000 gold.
BUT you know your campiagn best, if this is going to be particularly useful/game breaking in the hands of you player, then feel free to up the price. I still recommend making it static (and not any higher than +8,000 gold). If you wanted to give it an +X equivalency, I would not make it more than +1.
Reach is a very powerful and highly desired thing in melee combat. Especially if the reach lets you threaten adjacent. Melee weapons are balanced around whether or not they give reach. It should be at least a +4 enhancement.The fighters fork would seem to disagree by at least 3 plusses. The total of a +1 with extra reach is less than the cost of a +2 AND it comes with the ability to make it light so it can be used with TWF.
The fighter's fork lets you turn a one-handed weapon into a two-handed reach weapon that removes its range increment. That's significantly less powerful than giving a weapon an extra 5 foot reach AND can lets you target adjacent squares.
If this is to be made into a +5000gp ability, then it should work like fighter's fork and have the restriction that it must be placed on a one-handed weapon.
That's significantly less powerful than giving a weapon an extra 5 foot reach AND can lets you target adjacent squares.
The OP never talked about attacking adjacent creatures only adding to reach that's already there. Though the flair does allow adjacent attacks.
As another option for reach, you can have a Training weapon with the lunge feat in it.
You may wish to compare to the Boarding Pike of Repelling. It's +10 feet instead of +5 feet, but it indicates a cost of +2k or so.
You may wish to compare to the Boarding Pike of Repelling. It's +10 feet instead of +5 feet, but it indicates a cost of +2k or so.
Yep, nowhere close to a +4 or limited to one handed as Cyrad suggested. 2-4 thousand seems like the going rate.
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I feel like 2000, if it also prevents you from attacking within a reach increment, or 4000 if it's just reach with no added dead space.
Longarm 1st level spell, 1 Min / Level Duration. Effect: Increase the recipients reach with it's limbs by 5 feet.
Magic Item Creation cost 2000 x 1 (Spell Level) x 1 (Caster Level) x 4 (Duration Multiplier) = 8,000 Gold.
Now I believe this increases the users natural reach which is stronger than just upping adding +5 to reach as the latter isn't doubled with a reach weapon. So Reducing the price to the range of 6,000-4,000 is probably reasonable.
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Firewarrior44, the method you used is for if there isn't something that already exists to compare it to. The item I cited is something much closer.
Boarding Pike of Repelling is a mere flat +2k for being able to extend reach from 10 to 20, without any prior range increments, which is what the 15' reach longhammer is doing. Actually, the 5' increase appears to be constant, without the option to change it like the boarding pike I mentioned, just a flat range change, which might justify reducing it by half (since half the options) to even as cheap as just flat +1k (once it's already magic).
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To answer the OP's question, you should consider the extra reach as a flat increase rather than an enhancement cost when considering how much it would cost to upgrade the weapon.
You may wish to compare to the Boarding Pike of Repelling. It's +10 feet instead of +5 feet, but it indicates a cost of +2k or so.Yep, nowhere close to a +4 or limited to one handed as Cyrad suggested. 2-4 thousand seems like the going rate.
The boarding pike of repelling requires you to spend a swift action each round to extend it. Again, you keep mentioning items that extend range, but they're vastly different than a constant effect that increases reach without any downsides, restrictions, or action economy and can be applied to a weapon that already has reach.
Cyrad: the pike is already a reach weapon and gets 10' extra with a swift action for 2000. even if you double or triple it for no downside like action type and halving the reach gained, we still aren't anywhere close to +4. Add to that, use activated longarm item priced out at 4000gp, which is right in line with the other options. I don't think there needs to be THAT much worry about action types, like with the fork, as it can't hit adjacent foes.
There's a big difference in power between one ability that's a constant effect and one that requires a swift action each round to maintain.
For a martial, that would probably BE their swift actions for a bit, which means that's not *too* much of an issue. It thus has two modes: long and short. A flat increase is a weaker version, which is why I cited that item: it had a flat increase of +2k, for a stronger version, which I used as a reason to lower the cost. Granted, the swift action could have much more meaning later, but it's still one mode vs two.
I would consider just doing a Training enhancement that grants lunge (which is a +1). That seems fair and reasonable, since Lunge is a perfectly cromulent feat and "being able to attack an extra 5 feet" is not nearly as game warping than "being able to threaten an extra 5 feet" (which is ordinarily unavailable outside of mythic.)
Having played in a game with a character with a 30' threat radius, I don't know that having to keep track of all the extra AoOs you make whenever anybody runs anywhere is really the thing you want to add to your game.
Or a first level spell...
Spell at least requires an action to turn it on and has a duration. That's different from "your reach is always 5' more". Even aberrant bloodragers eventually run out of rounds of rage and then their arms get shorter.
There's a big difference in power between one ability that's a constant effect and one that requires a swift action each round to maintain.
More than a +3 difference? Not by my estimation, not even close.
There's a big difference in power between one ability that's a constant effect and one that requires a swift action each round to maintain.More than a +3 difference? Not by my estimation, not even close.
...which I later suggested making a flat +5000 gp if it mimics fighter's fork?
Man, I think im going to implement a +1 enchantment that does this but only works on flail weapon types.
...which I later suggested making a flat +5000 gp if it mimics fighter's fork?There's a big difference in power between one ability that's a constant effect and one that requires a swift action each round to maintain.More than a +3 difference? Not by my estimation, not even close.
Note I was talking the difference between them: IE one with a swift action and one without. So the difference between your estimations: +5000gp and a +4.