Wielding = attacking with it?


Rules Questions


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The Sentinel's Symbolic Weapon ability says: When wielding his deity's favored weapon, the sentinel gains a +1 sacred or profane bonus on attack and damage rolls.

I can't help but notice that the wording is different than the Figher's Weapon Training feature: Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Does that mean a Sentinel of Iomedae that is two-weapon fighting with longsword and shield will get the bonus to both his sword attacks and shield bashes?

Liberty's Edge

I don't know any GM that would read it that way, but it is a possible interpretation.
The ability is badly written.


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wielding is a word that has been thrown around all over and thus means many different things.

In this case I would think the intent was to be the same as the fighter's weapon training and would rule it be behave as such.


Anger Nogar wrote:

The Sentinel's Symbolic Weapon ability says: When wielding his deity's favored weapon, the sentinel gains a +1 sacred or profane bonus on attack and damage rolls.

I can't help but notice that the wording is different than the Figher's Weapon Training feature: Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Does that mean a Sentinel of Iomedae that is two-weapon fighting with longsword and shield will get the bonus to both his sword attacks and shield bashes?

Given the wording, I would say the bonus applies to all attack and damage rolls you make while wielding their deity's favored weapon even if you aren't attacking with it. Your weapon is a holy symbol, when held it grants you the boon of increased ability to attack and damage your enemies regardless of the weapon used.


In this case I would rule the ability worked the same as the fighter's weapon training.


Anger Nogar wrote:

The Sentinel's Symbolic Weapon ability says: When wielding his deity's favored weapon, the sentinel gains a +1 sacred or profane bonus on attack and damage rolls.

I can't help but notice that the wording is different than the Figher's Weapon Training feature: Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Does that mean a Sentinel of Iomedae that is two-weapon fighting with longsword and shield will get the bonus to both his sword attacks and shield bashes?

You get different wordings because different people write differently.

The answer to your question is No. Shields are not favored weapons for Iomedae. The clear intent of the wording is that the bonus applies to the favored weapon, not anything else he happens to be wielding at the same time. So bonus to Longsword, yes, shield a clear no.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Wield means attack with, hold, or threaten depending on context. In this context, it means attack with.


I'm inclined to agree with Gallant Armor. Your longsword strike, your shield-bash, and your off-hand kick all get the +1 so long as you continue to wield your blade. If it is put away or knocked loose you lose the bonus.

It's an incredible incentive to continue fighting with a broken weapon in the glorious name of your deity.

Sovereign Court

Wielding is one of the worst-defined terms in the game. Any attempt to pin down a global definition would probably break lots of things.

In this case, since it's a symbolic weapon, it's not so crazy if it also buffs your other attacks. Inspiring, like a banner.


It's not crazy that it could buff your other attacks...however the problem is that the meaning of the word "wielding" when used in Pathfinder depends greatly on context.

As a GM, I would rule that the bonus only applies to the longsword (or both if you TWF with two longswords). Regardless the bonus only applies to Iomedae's favored weapon, the longsword.

There is room to interpret it otherwise, but I don't think that was the intention.

If the developers clarified their intention to boost all attacks, I wouldn't fret over it.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Sounds like we definitely will have table variance on this issue. Also, Ascalaphus is right. They have publicly said that there is no way they will ever define wield, as it is known to be used in a variety of ways and defining it would break more than it fixes.

Sovereign Court

I dunno if they "promised" not to define it.. it's more like that was the conclusion I drew from the last great effort to come to a consisten definition.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I couldn't easily find the comments saying paraphrased "the word is used in too many ways because we made mistakes", but I did find one saying that wield ONLY means actively using

I think some time after 2011, they realized too many people had written too many times in too many ways. The original intended way had lapsed and there wasn't much to be done about it.


Anger Nogar wrote:

The Sentinel's Symbolic Weapon ability says: When wielding his deity's favored weapon, the sentinel gains a +1 sacred or profane bonus on attack and damage rolls.

I can't help but notice that the wording is different than the Figher's Weapon Training feature: Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Actually you could interpret both abilities as a boost to all weapons' attack and damage. Both use the wording 'bonus on attack and damage rolls', there is no explicit restriction to the weapon / weapons in question.

But, to advance to the next level of fussiness: There is no statement about the duration either. So you wield / attack with a certain question once and get the bonuses forever?

So I'd say: In both cases you have to consider the intent. From my point of view, the bonuses only apply to the favored weapon respective the weapon group.


Not really Sheepish one. You're only attacking with a particular weapon during that weapon's attack. When you're attacking with something else, you're, well, attacking with something else.

However, I could see an argument for Doublestrike/Equal Opportunity from the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

SheepishEidolon wrote:
Both use the wording 'bonus on attack and damage rolls', there is no explicit restriction to the weapon / weapons in question.

Another example of why "this is limited to the weapon you are using to make the attack" is that some thought that if you were in flanking position, you could ignore the "when making a melee attack" part of Flanking and make ranged attacks in flanking position for Sneak Attack.

This was answered. People continued. It was explicitly answered directly a second time.

If this gets to an answer stage, it will be answered that is only the weapon you are using to make the attack.

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