The PRD, in the Magic section of the core rulebook, states the following:
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
Emphasis mine.
Questions for any Summon Monster n users:
1) Does this mean you may not summon creatures of the type that died for 24 hours?
2) What happens when you're capable of summoning multiple creatures of that type?
3) What does it mean for the monster to 'reform'?
4) What is the nature of the monsters you summon?
Are they their own entity, or echoes? Are they capable of bringing messages back to their home plane, or isolated? If your 'Bob the hound archon' dies, can you still summon 'Tim' and 'James' the hound archons?
Is this All GM territory, and if it is, does the emphasized portion of the quote mean mechanically?
This is a continuation of the thread found here
1. No, if it did it would apply to everyone in the world, not just you. The restriction is "it cannot" not 'you cannot.' This applies to the specific creature you summoned, Bob the Hound archon, not all archons.
2. You summon Bob, Mike, Sue and Michelle the Hound archons, if one dies you can replace it with Pat in your next summons on the same day.
3. Somewhat fluffy term, regenerate, heal, regrow flesh, so,ething like that.
4. This can really be spun different ways depending on the planar metaphysic of the campaign, the simplest would be a solidified astral projection of the original being. But tjat is just my idea of the simplest.
To summarize what seems to be the two stances from the other thread, as far as I understand it...
Situation A) You summon an Echo, Image, or conjured copy of a (or several) outsider.
Situation B) You summon an actual named Outsider, bring it to your plane of existence, and boss it around until it goes back (Without dying).
Neither fully answers whether the quoted bit functions mechanically for the Summon Monster spell, especially with regards to multiple creatures. So far, all evidence points to Situation A; You summon a manifestation that does not exist beyond the spell.
bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning)
In this scenario, the creature "Reforming" just poses more questions: If it doesn't exist beyond the use of the spell, why is it reforming? Is it possible to summon back an exact copy of a creature you've used before, and to what purpose? does your 'Hound Archon template' break, disallowing you from forming more hound archons to summon?
Ultimately, despite this seeming to be a prohibitive ruling in the PRD, it doesn't seem to mechanically alter gameplay at all. More opinions are welcome on the matter.
1. Nope. It does mean that if your summoned scout "dies", you have to wait until tomorrow to get the information it learned.
2. See 1. It's not an issue.
3. Good question! You can't ever access it while it's reforming, though, so it doesn't really matter.
4. That's gonna depend on the GM, probably.
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To be fair, James Jacob's quote does not fit well with the text in the books and should be taken as his view on it, not the official fact of summons. As usual for his thread, it is mostly advice and how he would run it.
Also, to be honest, Pathfinder never seems to pin this down. That leaves this all pretty much GM territory. Though, I take the view that those beings you summon do exist. If they didn't, they couldn't have knowledge skills. Also... where would this "template" come from?
Too many questions, when it is just easy enough to leave the creatures to function as is. You may not be able to summon the same creature after it dies... but it doesn't matter because you can't choose who you summon anyway. As far as I know, I can't think of any summoning spell that summons a specific entity.
As I said, this is pretty much one big blank area. Fill it with as much flavorful stuff as you like. Because so far there really is not a definite mechanical answer. Do note this, though...
"a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have."
You can not bring to you or send back something that doesn't exist. That would be a conjuration[creation] effect to make something from nothing.
"Creation: a creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence."
The PRD, in the Magic section of the core rulebook, states the following:
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
Emphasis mine.
Questions for any Summon Monster n users:
1) Does this mean you may not summon creatures of the type that died for 24 hours?
2) What happens when you're capable of summoning multiple creatures of that type?
3) What does it mean for the monster to 'reform'?
4) What is the nature of the monsters you summon?Are they their own entity, or echoes? Are they capable of bringing messages back to their home plane, or isolated? If your 'Bob the hound archon' dies, can you still summon 'Tim' and 'James' the hound archons?
Is this All GM territory, and if it is, does the emphasized portion of the quote mean mechanically?
This is a continuation of the thread found here
The summon monster spells allow you to summon several of the same monster types so if 1 is the intent then it goes against a specific use of the spells.
I would understand if this was a calling spell because you can call a specific monster, but summoning generally has no use for true names or anything that has you conjure a specific creature.