I picked up the Wrath of the Righteous base set yesterday and played it for the first time with my girlfriend last night. All in all, it was successful and fun! But there were a couple stumbling blocks we came across that confused us. We just kind of faked our way through it to keep the momentum going, but I'm curious how these rules are supposed to be handled.
Welcome to PACG!
First, the impression I got is that a combat check by default is resolved using either Strength or Melee, unless a card (spell, ranged weapon) allows you to use another skill. However, it says in the rulebook in one example that even though Harsk's Str die is a d6, he has to use a d4 for his combat check because he doesn't have the Melee skill. Why can he not roll a d6 for his strength?
Harsk could have. Here is the example you were looking at:
Combat checks use Strength or Melee (unless a card changes it). Harsk’s Strength skill is d6; since he doesn’t have the Melee skill, he would roll a d4 for that.
It is just saying that if he doesn't change the the skill, he's two options are d6 Strength or d4 Melee. "He would roll a d4 for that." is referring to if he didn't play a card and chose to use Melee. It is just trying to lay out all the options.
My gf was playing Enora the Arcanist, and ended up with the spell Brilliance in her hand (adds 3 to intelligence checks while displayed). She fought a monster, used an Arcane spell to defeat it, and displayed Brilliance to add +3 to the Arcane check. I wanted to make sure this was an appropriate use of the spell. Since Arcane is listed under Intelligence, we figured that Brilliance would apply to it.
It is, but, no character can play 2 cards of the same type during a check (or any step of an encounter). So, she'd need to have played Brilliance prior to the encounter wit the monster.
Encountering a Card Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step;
Attempting a Check Remember that each player may not play more than 1 card of each type or use any 1 power more than once during each check, other than cards that can be used each time something particular happens.
You don't need to wait for an encounter to play Brilliance. Enora can just play it right after she starts her turn and before she explores or anything.
She then ended up encountering Sophini, the villain of the scenario. Sophini said she had to summon a random monster to fight first, and she summoned a Ghost. Ghosts are immune to the Mental trait, and the only spell she had available had the Mental trait, so she couldn't use that. She was forced to essentially punch the ghost in the face, but the combat check to defeat it was 12. Her strength die is a d6, so she played a blessing, rolled 2d6, and actually managed to roll a 12! However, we got confused on what to do next, because her combat check did not include the Magic trait, leaving the ghost undefeated. We figured that, since she rolled a 12 she takes no damage, and since it was a summoned creature it goes back into the box after the encounter no matter what. However, Sophini says that 'if the summoned monster is not defeated, Sophini is undefeated.' So she fought Sophini next, handily beat her check to defeat, but we figured Sophini still counted as "undefeated" since we didn't actually defeat the summoned monster, but she still takes no damage since she beat the check. We followed the rules for a villain escaping to an open location after not defeating her. Did we do all this right? Or what should we have done?
You got all that correct!
Lastly, Enora's power says that after playing a spell, you can recharge a random spell from your discard pile. We played the rule the following way: my gf would play a spell, roll to recharge that spell. If she succeeded, it went back into her deck, if not it went into the discard pile. Then she would shuffle her discard pile and go through it from the top until she found a spell (thus making it a 'random' spell), and then automatically recharge it (since the power doesn't say anything about 'attempting' to recharge it, we assumed it automatically succeeded). Is that the right way to approach that power, or is there a better way?
Almost. The consensus (here and here) is that you really need to do the discard pile search first, then then attempt to recharge the spell you played. But you are correct that, whatever random spell you find in your discard pile just goes to the bottom of your deck, no need to worry about rolling for that part.
Thanks for the help! We had a lot of fun and are looking forward to playing the next scenario!
Good luck on your continuing adventure!
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Oh. And while I'm at it, some of those Wrath scenarios can be very very hard. Be sure to check out this FAQ and especially the one below it about the Elven Entanglement.
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However, it says in the rulebook in one example that even though Harsk's Str die is a d6, he has to use a d4 for his combat check because he doesn't have the Melee skill. Why can he not roll a d6 for his strength?
He can. I don't have the Rulebook here, so maybe the example is wrong. When fighting without weapon - you can always chose the better from Strength or Melee; most characters without Melee skill will naturally chose their higher Strength.
My gf was playing Enora the Arcanist, and ended up with the spell Brilliance in her hand (adds 3 to intelligence checks while displayed). She fought a monster, used an Arcane spell to defeat it, and displayed Brilliance to add +3 to the Arcane check. I wanted to make sure this was an appropriate use of the spell. Since Arcane is listed under Intelligence, we figured that Brilliance would apply to it.
Yes, Brilliance boosts Arcane for Enora, as it's base of her Intelligence. Contrast that with Balazar (Arcane: Charisma) who would not benefit from Brilliance.
However: Each player is only limited to playing ONE of each card type per check! Since, Enora already played a spell (the one she fought with - that defines her skill for the check), she wouldn't be allowed to then play *another* spell to boost her combat. If it was *you* who played Brilliance on her check to help her out - that would've been OK. For what is worth, I also find this somewhat counter-intuitive.However, Sophini says that 'if the summoned monster is not defeated, Sophini is undefeated.' So she fought Sophini next, handily beat her check to defeat, but we figured Sophini still counted as "undefeated" since we didn't actually defeat the summoned monster, but she still takes no damage since she beat the check.
Wow! For a new player you surely got the game down pat! That's *exactly* how the situation develops!
Lastly, Enora's power says that after playing a spell, you can recharge a random spell from your discard pile. We played the rule the following way: my gf would play a spell, roll to recharge that spell. If she succeeded, it went back into her deck, if not it went into the discard pile. Then she would shuffle her discard pile and go through it from the top until she found a spell (thus making it a 'random' spell), and then automatically recharge it (since the power doesn't say anything about 'attempting' to recharge it, we assumed it automatically succeeded). Is that the right way to approach that power, or is there a better way?
So this thing may invite a couple of interpretations. Here's what happens in several scenarios, imho:
1) - you play spell on a check (typically, for your combat)- You roll and resolve your check
- then are then left with 2 competing effect at the same time: "After you play this card" recharge power of the spell, and "After you play a spell" for Enora's power. Whenever you have two simultaneous effects, it's player's choice which one to resolve first. So:
- If you have in your discard a spell you prefer to recharge rather than the one you just played - you first play Enora's power to have a higher chance at it (i.e. the spell just played is not included in the random draw)
- If you rather recharge the last spell played - you first roll its recharge check; this way, if you fail - it's included in the random draw
- NOTE: if you played the spell during an encounter, both of these actions still happen within the encounter, if that matters
2) If you played a spell that 'displays' and is recharged at end of turn - it doesn't compete with Enora's power, so you have to draw a random spell immediately (after making your check, if any)
Hope that helps. The beginning of WotR can be pretty rough, so take courage and keep on, the game will only get more awesome for you. Here's to as few Demon Hordes and Arboreal Blights as possible, and welcome to the PACG community!
EDIT: Oh, and meet Hawkmoon - the resident omniscient PACG ninja-AI, that occasionally likes to pass itself as human here on the forum!
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He is actually human, and there are now others besides myself who can verify this (RebelSong, Theryon Stormrune, Eliandra Glitesson, and cartmanbeck).
But his power to chime in promptly on any and all rules questions...that is a bit more than human. I'm not saying that he isn't from the future and doesn't have bionic implants that connect his gray matter via wifi to the internet and allow him to cut & paste from the rulebook.
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Nice try Calthaer but we know you are all part of the conspiration to have all of us controlled by the HawkAI269.
My gf was playing Enora the Arcanist, and ended up with the spell Brilliance in her hand (adds 3 to intelligence checks while displayed). She fought a monster, used an Arcane spell to defeat it, and displayed Brilliance to add +3 to the Arcane check. I wanted to make sure this was an appropriate use of the spell. Since Arcane is listed under Intelligence, we figured that Brilliance would apply to it.It is, but, no character can play 2 cards of the same type during a check (or any step of an encounter). So, she'd need to have played Brilliance prior to the encounter wit the monster.
Encountering a Card Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step;You don't need to wait for an encounter to play Brilliance. Enora can just play it right after she starts her turn and before she explores or anything.
Devil's Advocate for the counter-intuitive No-Brilliance thing: Play it during the Before You Act step of the encounter. :)
Our group often balks at the strictness of that rule when it comes to things like that. Be it casting the booster spells or using armors that provide stat bonuses to also reduce damage, we tend to fall on the side of "well, that doesn't make sense, so let's do this." *shrug*
Of course, for Enora, spell cycling is both key and easy. So casting Brilliance at the start of her turn to get back something else from her discard is a solid tactic anyway.
My gf was playing Enora the Arcanist, and ended up with the spell Brilliance in her hand (adds 3 to intelligence checks while displayed). She fought a monster, used an Arcane spell to defeat it, and displayed Brilliance to add +3 to the Arcane check. I wanted to make sure this was an appropriate use of the spell. Since Arcane is listed under Intelligence, we figured that Brilliance would apply to it.It is, but, no character can play 2 cards of the same type during a check (or any step of an encounter). So, she'd need to have played Brilliance prior to the encounter wit the monster.
Encountering a Card Each player may play no more than 1 card of each type during each step;You don't need to wait for an encounter to play Brilliance. Enora can just play it right after she starts her turn and before she explores or anything.
Devil's Advocate for the counter-intuitive No-Brilliance thing: Play it during the Before You Act step of the encounter. :)
Our group often balks at the strictness of that rule when it comes to things like that. Be it casting the booster spells or using armors that provide stat bonuses to also reduce damage, we tend to fall on the side of "well, that doesn't make sense, so let's do this." *shrug*
Of course, for Enora, spell cycling is both key and easy. So casting Brilliance at the start of her turn to get back something else from her discard is a solid tactic anyway.
Unless you are making an Intelligence check Before You Act or doing something else where playing Brilliance affects what you are doing Before You Act, you cannot play Brilliance during the Before You Act step of an encounter, because playing it does not relate to that step. This applies to every other step of an encounter as well (and no, you cannot play cards or use powers between steps). As such, Brilliance must be played before the encounter (which is usually before exploring).
Your group is of course free to do whatever, but the actual rules prevent what you have stated.
No, no, that's a fair point. That would be corrupting the BYA step.
I really should take a fresh poll of the guys and see if we want to be more true to the rules on this. The guy with Ophidian Armor might object, but no one has run a Brilliance or Sagacity or whatever in their deck in forever.
My gf was playing Enora the Arcanist, and ended up with the spell Brilliance in her hand (adds 3 to intelligence checks while displayed). She fought a monster, used an Arcane spell to defeat it, and displayed Brilliance to add +3 to the Arcane check. I wanted to make sure this was an appropriate use of the spell. Since Arcane is listed under Intelligence, we figured that Brilliance would apply to it.Yes, Brilliance boosts Arcane for Enora, as it's base of her Intelligence. Contrast that with Balazar (Arcane: Charisma) who would not benefit from Brilliance.
This is something new info for me which is nice to know. I always thought that such spells only boost the mentioned skill in the text. But at the same time it is confusing so I would like to ask more.
So, whenenever Enora plays Brilliance spell, it boosts his Intelligence. This also boosts his Arcane. Therefore, Intelligence equals to Arcane for Enora?
What if Enora encounters boon that requires only Intelligence skill as check to acquire? Can he use his Arcane skill instead?
If there is item, that says it could be attempted to be recharged with Intelligence skill check, can Enora use his Arcane skill instead? (not sure if such item exists, but just wondering what would be the case)
Blessing of Iomedae is able to give 2 dice for Charisma checks. Seelah has Diplomacy: Charisma +2 listed, and her Charisma dice is d12. Can she benefit from both dice for Diplomacy checks? In other words, when she attempts Diplomacy check and uses Blessing of Iomedae, does she roll 3d12+2?
I assume you are using Seelah from WoTR (due to mentioning Enora). If so, she would get to roll 3d10+2 as her Charisma Die is d10. There are no versions of Seelah that I am aware are d12 Charisma.
Yes, I remembered her Diplomacy die incorrectly. I checked the pacg wiki and she actually has Diplomacy: Charisma+1, so she actually would roll 3d10+1 in the situation described above.
But very nice to learn new things after few playthroughs. I must have skipped many boons in mistake, because they felt less powerful or too situational. Suddenly allies like 'Athlete' or blessings like "Blessing of Shax" feel great for Melee/Ranged-oriented characters!
It is pity that cards usually mention about boosting base skills, which can lead to mistakes like this. Hopefully in future, rulebooks could include some example about those card combos to clarify things.