Enora's spell-recharging power and multiple "After you play XYZ" effects

[splemieux]

I'm looking to clarify how to determine the order of resolution when multiple "After you play XYZ" effects come into play.

Let's take the example of Enora's 2nd base power : "After you play a spell, you may recharge a random spell from your discard pile."

Here's my understanding of what happens when a spell is cast.

1. A spell is played.
--> "When a card is played" effects kick, *before* the effect of the spell comes into play. This is where, say, Kyra's healing power would go into effect if she played a blessing on someone else's check.

2. Spell's effect is activated.
--> This is when the combat check would be done, if an Attack spell is being cast. The "attempt to recharge after this spell is played" is queued-up as the next check.

3. "After this card is played"
--> Two things have to happen here : trying to recharge the played spell, and activating Enora's recharge-spell-from-discard power. Since the spell's own recharge was previously queued up, it's resolved first, and afterward Enora's character power kicks in.

This would mean that if Enora doesn't currently have a spell in her discard pile, a spell with a recharge check is automatically recharged (if you win the check, the spell's recharged, if you fail the check, the power will recharge it automatically. If there already is a spell in her discard pile, she'll either recharge both (if the spell's recharge check is won), or randomly one of the two spells only (if the spell's recharge check is failed).

Is this accurate ? I based this off the fact that there doesn't seem to be any indication of what should be done first, when many effects happen during the same "phase" (like "after a spell is cast", which I've always interpreted as "after the whole resolution of the spell's effects").

[skizzerz]

Nope, that is not quite correct. You will never be able to auto-recharge the spell you just played.

The sequencing goes like so:

1. Play the spell
2. Resolve the spell's effects
3. Enora's ability activates
4. Attempt the recharge check for the spell

The reason for this is that recharge checks actually begin a new step (during an encounter this creates a new "Attempt the next check, as needed" step whereas outside of an encounter you can treat it much the same where it starts a new thing due to the "finish one thing before you start something else" rule), and the "after a spell is played" power happens during the current step in which you played a spell.

[splemieux]

skizzerz wrote:

Nope, that is not quite correct. You will never be able to auto-recharge the spell you just played.

The sequencing goes like so:

1. Play the spell
2. Resolve the spell's effects
3. Enora's ability activates
4. Attempt the recharge check for the spell

The reason for this is that recharge checks actually begin a new step (during an encounter this creates a new "Attempt the next check, as needed" step whereas outside of an encounter you can treat it much the same where it starts a new thing due to the "finish one thing before you start something else" rule), and the "after a spell is played" power happens during the current step in which you played a spell.

So according to you, if there's no other spell in Enora's discard pile, a spell played out of combat would automatically be recharged, but in an encounter would only be recharged if the recharge check is won ?

[skizzerz]

No, I'm saying that it would never be automatically recharged no matter what. I cited two different rules to show that you can never automatically recharge the spell you just played regardless of whether or not you are in an encounter. During an encounter the recharge check would be a different step, so the "after you play a spell" power triggers on the step you played the spell and not on the step you are recharging it. Outside of the encounter there isn't any step in which you played the spell, however the recharge check starts a process and as such you need to finish up playing the spell (which includes Enora's power) before you can start the recharge check.

For reference, those rules may be found on pages 11 and 29 of the WotR rulebook. Further support may be found on page 9 in the Playing Cards section, where it says "Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card." So, you play the spell by using the power. After the power resolves, it is after you played the spell, so Enora's power activates at this time. After that is when you get to attempt the recharge check.

[elcoderdude]

Now that skizzerz has answered the main question, I want to correct a small detail.

This is not correct:

splemieux wrote:

1. A spell is played.

--> "When a card is played" effects kick, *before* the effect of the spell comes into play. This is where, say, Kyra's healing power would go into effect if she played a blessing on someone else's check

WotR Kyra's power reads:

Kyra character card wrote:

When you use the above power or play a blessing that does not have the Corrupted trait on another character’s (□ or your) check to defeat, a character at your location may shuffle 1 random card from his discard pile into his deck after the check.

Kyra's healing occurs after the check. Which makes it all too easy to forget, in my opinion.

[PezKat]

Skizzerz wrote:

So, you play the spell by using the power. After the power resolves, it is after you played the spell, so Enora's power activates at this time. After that is when you get to attempt the recharge check.

So, if that spell said "Discard to ..." and then was the only spell in the Discard pile, it will recharge from Enora's power and you won't even get to the recharge check. (So, it 'autorecharges' if we're using that terminology.)

[skizzerz]

PezKat wrote:

Skizzerz wrote:

So, you play the spell by using the power. After the power resolves, it is after you played the spell, so Enora's power activates at this time. After that is when you get to attempt the recharge check.

So, if that spell said "Discard to ..." and then was the only spell in the Discard pile, it will recharge from Enora's power and you won't even get to the recharge check. (So, it 'autorecharges' if we're using that terminology.)

No, it does not. The card is set aside until you do the recharge check, so it is not in the discard pile for Enora's power.

[magnitt]

elcoderdude wrote:

WotR Kyra's power reads:

Kyra character card wrote:

When you use the above power or play a blessing that does not have the Corrupted trait on another character’s (□ or your) check to defeat, a character at your location may shuffle 1 random card from his discard pile into his deck after the check.

Kyra's healing occurs after the check. Which makes it all too easy to forget, in my opinion.

Hi, can somebody clarify Kyra for me please! If Kyra plays a blessing on another character’s check to defeat, and her discard pile is empty, can she recharge the blessing she just played? Thank you!

[elcoderdude]

magnitt wrote:

Hi, can somebody clarify Kyra for me please! If Kyra plays a blessing on another character’s check to defeat, and her discard pile is empty, can she recharge the blessing she just played? Thank you!

Yes, she can. (She doesn't actually recharge it, she shuffles it.)

During the check, she discards the blessing. After the check, she performs her healing. The blessing is in her discard pile to be healed.

[magnitt]

elcoderdude wrote:

magnitt wrote:

Hi, can somebody clarify Kyra for me please! If Kyra plays a blessing on another character’s check to defeat, and her discard pile is empty, can she recharge the blessing she just played? Thank you!

Yes, she can. (She doesn't actually recharge it, she shuffles it.)

During the check, she discards the blessing. After the check, she performs her healing. The blessing is in her discard pile to be healed.

Thank you, that's very interesting! I always wanted to do this, but my friends wouldn't let me, saying that the card is not in the discard pile yet. Also, back when I was playing Oloch (Shield of Gorum role) they were saying that the following ability does not work when the character's discard pile is empty:

Quote:

When a character plays a blessing on your combat or Strength check, that character may recharge a random card from her discard pile ...

So you think they were mistaken? Can someone else confirm this, please?

[elcoderdude]

Oloch's power is not like Kyra's. Kyra's happens after the check; Oloch's happens when the card is played.

It's not clear, but I would say that using Oloch's power the player cannot recharge the blessing they played which triggered the power.

[magnitt]

Oh, now I see - it's _after_ the check with Kyra! This makes sense! So we played it right with Oloch, but with Kyra it's different. Thanks a lot!!