Adamantine golem vs tarraque.


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Who will win ?

Ps : adamantine golem only can died by vopal adamantine sword. Since tarraque unkillable....

Paradox. Unless some dumbass use that vopal sword to behead that golem.


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Tarrasque, easily.

The tarrasque's Combat Reflexes, along with its superior reach and CMB mean that even if the golem wins initiative, it can't get close enough to attack the tarrasque without getting tripped by an attack of opportunity. Anyway, it would take the golem about 11 rounds of full-attacking just to get the tarrasque into the negatives. Meanwhile, as soon as the tarrasque gets a turn, it can unleash its own full-attack, which will deal somewhere around 250 damage, bypassing the golem's DR and sending it well into negative hitpoints. At that point, all the tarrasque needs to do is swallow the golem whole, keeping it trapped in its stomach indefinitely while taking about 64 points of damage every round that far outpaces its measly fast healing.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The last line under ecology: "Likewise, it isn't mindless in its rampages, but instead focuses on targets that threaten it, and is difficult to distract with trickery."

Ignoring pedantry for a minute, I doubt there is anything that would threaten it, except for things it cannot defeat in combat anyway.


That isn't a paradox. A paradox is an impossible situation. You've described an event that would simply lead to two creatures fighting until one of them gets bored, an adventurer shows up with powerful enough weapons, or the eventual heat death of the universe. It's not impossible though. That, and Avoron is right.


Also, don't forget the Tarrasque regenerates 40 HP each round in a manner that cannot be suppressed, so even if the golem gets a few hits in, the damage will be erased fairly rapidly.


Ah, yes. My calculation of eleven rounds was considering only the tarrasque's HP pool, not its regeneration. If the tarrasque just stood there and let the golem attack it, it would take sixty-six rounds to get it into negative HP.

Oh, and let's not forget about the tarrasque's frightful presence. Between that and combat maneuvers, the tarrasque could incapacitate the golem however it pleases without dealing a single point of damage.

Not to mention the tarrasques extreme advantage in awareness and reaction ability. Its initiative bonus is 9 points higher than the golems; its perception is bonus 43 points higher. And it has scent.


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Avoron wrote:
Oh, and let's not forget about the tarrasque's frightful presence. Between that and combat maneuvers, the tarrasque could incapacitate the golem however it pleases without dealing a single point of damage.

Constructs are immune to mind-affecting effects, so the frightful presence would do nothing.


Jeraa wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Oh, and let's not forget about the tarrasque's frightful presence. Between that and combat maneuvers, the tarrasque could incapacitate the golem however it pleases without dealing a single point of damage.
Constructs are immune to mind-affecting effects, so the frightful presence would do nothing.

Fair point, I didn't see the line that it was mind-affecting. But it's also a moot point, because by the time it would matter, the golem is already at negative HP.


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Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds later....


If we made it Mythic would the Adamantine golem have a chance?


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Starbuck_II wrote:
If we made it Mythic would the Adamantine golem have a chance?

...yes? The mythic subtype is incredibly versatile and powerful, particularly for creatures of high CR. If nothing else, it could just take simple divine spellcasting and possess the tarrasque with an obnoxiously boosted parasitic soul.

Saldiven wrote:
Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds years later....

Fixed that for you. Great idea, but for every round the golems were in the stomach, they will be fast healing for five before getting into positive HP.

What I'd want to see is a tarrasque that succeeds in completely digesting a still-living adamantine golem, developing a self-maintaining set of adamantine bioenhancements. Give it the amalgam creature template, turning it into a construct and granting it immunity to magic, suffocation, and most other anti-tarrasque tactics.


Avoron wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds years later....

Fixed that for you. Great idea, but for every round the golems were in the stomach, they will be fast healing for five before getting into positive HP.

Except the lowest into the negatives HP can go, barring special abilities like some Oracle Mystery capstones, is Con score, or whatever would normally kill. In the case of constructs they normally die at zero HP, so that's as low as they can go. Once the acid effect is no longer active, they'd be into positives immediately.

Edit: I can't find the reference for that, so I could be misremembering.

Silver Crusade

Scythia wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds years later....

Fixed that for you. Great idea, but for every round the golems were in the stomach, they will be fast healing for five before getting into positive HP.

Except the lowest into the negatives HP can go, barring special abilities like some Oracle Mystery capstones, is Con score, or whatever would normally kill. In the case of constructs they normally die at zero HP, so that's as low as they can go. Once the acid effect is no longer active, they'd be into positives immediately.

Edit: I can't find the reference for that, so I could be misremembering.

I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere, but it is recommended to keep track of Negative HP in excess of your Con score since the introduction of Breath of Life and other similar abilities.

Constructs being destroyed at 0 and not having negative HP is true though.


Rysky wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds years later....

Fixed that for you. Great idea, but for every round the golems were in the stomach, they will be fast healing for five before getting into positive HP.

Except the lowest into the negatives HP can go, barring special abilities like some Oracle Mystery capstones, is Con score, or whatever would normally kill. In the case of constructs they normally die at zero HP, so that's as low as they can go. Once the acid effect is no longer active, they'd be into positives immediately.

Edit: I can't find the reference for that, so I could be misremembering.

I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere, but it is recommended to keep track of Negative HP in excess of your Con score since the introduction of Breath of Life and other similar abilities.

Constructs being destroyed at 0 and not having negative HP is true though.

Half right is better than not at all. :P


Avoron wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
If we made it Mythic would the Adamantine golem have a chance?

...yes? The mythic subtype is incredibly versatile and powerful, particularly for creatures of high CR. If nothing else, it could just take simple divine spellcasting and possess the tarrasque with an obnoxiously boosted parasitic soul.

Saldiven wrote:
Imagine being the adventurer party that killed the tarrasque only to find a half dozen Adamantine Golems erupting from it's carcass several rounds years later....

Fixed that for you. Great idea, but for every round the golems were in the stomach, they will be fast healing for five before getting into positive HP.

What I'd want to see is a tarrasque that succeeds in completely digesting a still-living adamantine golem, developing a self-maintaining set of adamantine bioenhancements. Give it the amalgam creature template, turning it into a construct and granting it immunity to magic, suffocation, and most other anti-tarrasque tactics.

That make tarrasque even more scarier.


Scythia wrote:
In the case of constructs they normally die at zero HP, so that's as low as they can go.

Ordinarily that's true, but the adamantine golem's Indestructible ability makes it clear that it can go into negative HP and must be healed back up to zero.

Indestructible wrote:
An adamantine golem is nearly impossible to destroy. Even if reduced below 0 hit points, its fast healing continues to restore hit points, though the golem is helpless unless above 0 hit points. It can only be permanently destroyed if reduced to negative hit points and then decapitated using an adamantine vorpal weapon—alternatively, miracle or wish can be used to slay it while it is at negative hit points.


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Veilgn wrote:
That make tarrasque even more scarier.

Here you go:

Adamantine Tarrasque wrote:

N Colossal construct

Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +39
Aura frightful presence (300 ft.; DC 24)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 38, touch 3, flat-footed 37 (+1 Dex, +35 natural -8 size)
hp 245 (30d10+80); fast healing 10; regeneration 40
Fort +12, Ref +13, Will +11
Defensive Abilities indestructible; DR 15/epic; Immune acid, construct traits, fire, magic, permanent wounds, petrification, polymorph
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +36 (4d8+14/17–20/×3 plus grab), 2 claws +36 (1d12+14), 2 gores +36 (1d10+14), 2 slams +36 (16d8+14/17-20), tail slap +31 (3d8+7)
Ranged 6 spines +23 (2d10+14/x3)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 30 ft. (60 ft. with tail slap)
Special Attacks destructive strike, rush, spines, swallow whole (6d6+21 plus 6d6 acid, AC 27, hp 24), trample (16d8+21, DC 39)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 38, Dex 12, Con -, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 7
Base Atk +30; CMB +52 (+56 grapple) CMD 63
Feats Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Bleeding Critical, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Run, Staggering Critical
Skills Acrobatics +1 (+41 when jumping), Perception +39; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception
Languages Aklo (cannot speak)
SQ carapace, powerful leaper


Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:
That make tarrasque even more scarier.

Here you go:

Adamantine Tarrasque wrote:

N Colossal construct

Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +39
Aura frightful presence (300 ft.; DC 24)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 38, touch 3, flat-footed 37 (+1 Dex, +35 natural -8 size)
hp 245 (30d10+80); fast healing 10; regeneration 40
Fort +12, Ref +13, Will +11
Defensive Abilities indestructible; DR 15/epic; Immune acid, construct traits, fire, magic, permanent wounds, petrification, polymorph
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +36 (4d8+14/17–20/×3 plus grab), 2 claws +36 (1d12+14), 2 gores +36 (1d10+14), 2 slams +36 (16d8+14/17-20), tail slap +31 (3d8+7)
Ranged 6 spines +23 (2d10+14/x3)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 30 ft. (60 ft. with tail slap)
Special Attacks destructive strike, rush, spines, swallow whole (6d6+21 plus 6d6 acid, AC 27, hp 24), trample (16d8+21, DC 39)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 38, Dex 12, Con -, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 7
Base Atk +30; CMB +52 (+56 grapple) CMD 63
Feats Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Bleeding Critical, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Run, Staggering Critical
Skills Acrobatics +1 (+41 when jumping), Perception +39; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception
Languages Aklo (cannot speak)
SQ carapace, powerful leaper

Now give it the Vital Strike Feat chain.

Silver Crusade

Mashallah wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:
That make tarrasque even more scarier.

Here you go:

Adamantine Tarrasque wrote:

N Colossal construct

Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +39
Aura frightful presence (300 ft.; DC 24)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 38, touch 3, flat-footed 37 (+1 Dex, +35 natural -8 size)
hp 245 (30d10+80); fast healing 10; regeneration 40
Fort +12, Ref +13, Will +11
Defensive Abilities indestructible; DR 15/epic; Immune acid, construct traits, fire, magic, permanent wounds, petrification, polymorph
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +36 (4d8+14/17–20/×3 plus grab), 2 claws +36 (1d12+14), 2 gores +36 (1d10+14), 2 slams +36 (16d8+14/17-20), tail slap +31 (3d8+7)
Ranged 6 spines +23 (2d10+14/x3)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 30 ft. (60 ft. with tail slap)
Special Attacks destructive strike, rush, spines, swallow whole (6d6+21 plus 6d6 acid, AC 27, hp 24), trample (16d8+21, DC 39)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 38, Dex 12, Con -, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 7
Base Atk +30; CMB +52 (+56 grapple) CMD 63
Feats Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Bleeding Critical, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Run, Staggering Critical
Skills Acrobatics +1 (+41 when jumping), Perception +39; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception
Languages Aklo (cannot speak)
SQ carapace, powerful leaper
Now give it the Vital Strike Feat chain.

Eh, with 8 Natural Attacks that would probably be a bit of a nerf.


I pretty much think you could get rid of Great fortitude, lightning reflexes, and Cleave without a problem, and put in the Vital Strike chain.

16d8+14 on a standard attack is not bad at all, since it doesn't have pounce.

Wouldn't the DR be 15/ Epic and adamantine?

Silver Crusade

Das Bier wrote:

I pretty much think you could get rid of Great fortitude, lightning reflexes, and Cleave without a problem, and put in the Vital Strike chain.

16d8+14 on a standard attack is not bad at all, since it doesn't have pounce.

Wouldn't the DR be 15/ Epic and adamantine?

Ah, point. I for some reason thought Rush gave it Pounce.

Granted it's not that big of a deal with its reach.


Das Bier wrote:
Wouldn't the DR be 15/ Epic and adamantine?

Interestingly enough, no. As it turns out, adamantine golems don't actually get DR/adamantine, only DR/epic. Usually this doesn't matter, as any weapon powerful enough to bypass epic damage reduction will be treated as adamantine as well, but it would provide a nice protection against other creatures with DR/epic, whose natural attacks bypass their own type of DR but not DR/adamantine. For instance, it would make the fight with the tarrasque take a whole lot longer.

Das Bier wrote:

I pretty much think you could get rid of Great fortitude, lightning reflexes, and Cleave without a problem, and put in the Vital Strike chain.

16d8+14 on a standard attack is not bad at all, since it doesn't have pounce.

Don't forget that it hasn't taken Improved Natural Attack yet! That would make it 24d8, or 96d8 with Greater Vital Strike.

But if we can replace its feats, we really ought to give it some ways to lock down opponents - something like Dazing Assault, Stunning Assault, or Stunning Critical. Combat Stamina would also be great to use with almost any feat you can think of. Not that any of this is reliant on being merged with an adamantine golem - any tarrasque could greatly benefit from a feat overhaul.


If ctuhulu vs tarrasque ?


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Veilgn wrote:
If ctuhulu vs tarrasque ?

Cthulhu, easily. The tarrasque dies from the DC 40 unspeakable presence as soon as it gets within 300 feet. If it somehow avoids this, Cthulhu kills it with his first action by using mythic wish to duplicate a CL 40, DC 29 mythic word of chaos, then pummeling its remains to stop it from regenerating. Or he can just duplicate plane shift to send it to the plane of water, where it drowns. Or he can just fly 40 feet above the tarrasque and execute a full-attack, hitting fairly easily with a grab/constrict/release routine that kills the tarrasque in one or two rounds. If the tarrasque does get a turn, it will be grappled, too far away to hit with most of its attacks, and barely able to scratch cthulhu between his AC 49, his DR 20/epic and lawful, his 50% miss chance, and his fast healing 30. In any rate, the tarrasque dies very quickly and doesn't wake up until it has been dropped through a gate into the plane of water.


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Avoron wrote:
Das Bier wrote:
Wouldn't the DR be 15/ Epic and adamantine?

Interestingly enough, no. As it turns out, adamantine golems don't actually get DR/adamantine, only DR/epic. Usually this doesn't matter, as any weapon powerful enough to bypass epic damage reduction will be treated as adamantine as well, but it would provide a nice protection against other creatures with DR/epic, whose natural attacks bypass their own type of DR but not DR/adamantine. For instance, it would make the fight with the tarrasque take a whole lot longer.

Das Bier wrote:

I pretty much think you could get rid of Great fortitude, lightning reflexes, and Cleave without a problem, and put in the Vital Strike chain.

16d8+14 on a standard attack is not bad at all, since it doesn't have pounce.

Don't forget that it hasn't taken Improved Natural Attack yet! That would make it 24d8, or 96d8 with Greater Vital Strike.

But if we can replace its feats, we really ought to give it some ways to lock down opponents - something like Dazing Assault, Stunning Assault, or Stunning Critical. Combat Stamina would also be great to use with almost any feat you can think of. Not that any of this is reliant on being merged with an adamantine golem - any tarrasque could greatly benefit from a feat overhaul.

that's not actually QUITE right on the DR/Epic.

A +6 equivalent weapon could be a +1 Holy Lawful Flaming weapon, and be able to punch DR/\EPic with +6 of equivs, and not DR/Adamantine. You'd need actual adamantine or +4 enhancement to do that.

mm, Improved Natural attack, mmm...Let's just get rid of Run, shall we?


Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:
If ctuhulu vs tarrasque ?
Cthulhu, easily. The tarrasque dies from the DC 40 unspeakable presence as soon as it gets within 300 feet. If it somehow avoids this, Cthulhu kills it with his first action by using mythic wish to duplicate a CL 40, DC 29 mythic word of chaos, then pummeling its remains to stop it from regenerating. Or he can just duplicate plane shift to send it to the plane of water, where it drowns. Or he can just fly 40 feet above the tarrasque and execute a full-attack, hitting fairly easily with a grab/constrict/release routine that kills the tarrasque in one or two rounds. If the tarrasque does get a turn, it will be grappled, too far away to hit with most of its attacks, and barely able to scratch cthulhu between his AC 49, his DR 20/epic and lawful, his 50% miss chance, and his fast healing 30. In any rate, the tarrasque dies very quickly and doesn't wake up until it has been dropped through a gate into the plane of water.

Actually, both that word of chaos and that plane shift would be DC 31, being duplicated with wish. As would any other combat-ending spell Cthulhu decides to throw out there - like, say, greater possession.

The list of problems that a mythic wish cannot solve is growing shorter every day.


Avoron wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:
If ctuhulu vs tarrasque ?
Cthulhu, easily. The tarrasque dies from the DC 40 unspeakable presence as soon as it gets within 300 feet. If it somehow avoids this, Cthulhu kills it with his first action by using mythic wish to duplicate a CL 40, DC 29 mythic word of chaos, then pummeling its remains to stop it from regenerating. Or he can just duplicate plane shift to send it to the plane of water, where it drowns. Or he can just fly 40 feet above the tarrasque and execute a full-attack, hitting fairly easily with a grab/constrict/release routine that kills the tarrasque in one or two rounds. If the tarrasque does get a turn, it will be grappled, too far away to hit with most of its attacks, and barely able to scratch cthulhu between his AC 49, his DR 20/epic and lawful, his 50% miss chance, and his fast healing 30. In any rate, the tarrasque dies very quickly and doesn't wake up until it has been dropped through a gate into the plane of water.

Actually, both that word of chaos and that plane shift would be DC 31, being duplicated with wish. As would any other combat-ending spell Cthulhu decides to throw out there - like, say, greater possession.

The list of problems that a mythic wish cannot solve is growing shorter every day.

What about SR?


So ctuhulu is strong monster now ?


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Avoron wrote:
Or he can just duplicate plane shift to send it to the plane of water, where it hibernates.

Fixed this for you.


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Snowlilly wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Or he can just duplicate plane shift to send it to the plane of water, where it hibernates.
Fixed this for you.

Not this again... maybe we should start calling it the "B1 Tarrasque."


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Starbuck_II wrote:
What about SR?

You mean the tarrasque's measly SR 36? Most of Cthulhu's spell-like abilities are CL 30, beating that on a 6. Using mythic wish to duplicate mythic word of chaos, which is rapidly becoming one of my favorite strategies, has CL 40, beating that on a 1. And overwhelming presence, of course, doesn't care about SR at all.

Veilgn wrote:
So ctuhulu is strong monster now ?

Compared to the tarrasque? Yeah.

Snowlilly wrote:
Fixed this for you.

How could the great Cthulhu ever hope to compete with your clever plans? Cthulhu, in his foolishness, has dropped the tarrasque in the middle of an infinite expanse of water, where it will fall into a complete slumber, floating blindly on the tides, unable to move and immune to any effect that might determine its location. Yep, that's definitely a win for the tarrasque.

In all seriousness, feel free to pick another plane shift location, one even less hospitable. Or just let it die from unspeakable presence. Or kill it with mythic word of chaos. Or possess it with greater possession. Or just full-attack it. Once you have it in the negatives, you can beat it down to an arbitrarily low hp total, then gate its remains to somewhere secure where they will take continuous damage, leaving a couple of star-spawn to stand guard.


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Avoron wrote:
In all seriousness, feel free to pick another plane shift location, one even less hospitable. Or just let it die from unspeakable presence. Or kill it with mythic word of chaos. Or possess it with greater possession. Or just full-attack it. Once you have it in the negatives, you can beat it down to an arbitrarily low hp total, then gate its remains to somewhere secure where they will take continuous damage, leaving a couple of star-spawn to stand guard.

Plane shifting the tarrasque to an inhospitable location is the standard means of dealing with it. Won't kill the tarrasque, but puts him out of commission until the next GM looking for a plot device requires his presence.

Usual favorites are the positive and negative material planes. Far less hospitable than the plane of water.

The Tarrasque is immune to mind-affecting effects. Unspeakable Presence won't do anything to it. Cthulhu is also immune to mind-affecting effects, ignoring the Tarrasque's Frightful Presence

Cthulhu is certainly more powerful, but both are equally immortal.


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Word of Chaos doesn't work with the Tarrasque as it's a CN (or CE on Golarion) creature


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Snowlilly wrote:
Usual favorites are the positive and negative material planes. Far less hospitable than the plane of water.

Not really. The tarrasque is immune to energy drain, so the negative energy plane is like a walk in the park. The positive energy plane is a little bit worse - if it goes above max hp and rolls a natural 1 on a Fortitude save it will die for three rounds, but then it will have a couple minutes of life before dying again. At least the plane of water keeps it in hibernation, rather than letting it soar around through subjective directional gravity until it finds something to destroy.

Snowlilly wrote:
The Tarrasque is immune to mind-affecting effects. Unspeakable Presence won't do anything to it.

Unspeakable presence is not mind-affecting. It is a fear and death effect, but neither of those make it mind-affecting, and the tarrasque is not immune to either. Greater possession is likewise not mind-affecting, so Cthulhu can use its wish SLA to control the tarrasque like a puppet, 30 hours at a time. Plus there's still that whole "kill it and beat it down to arbitrarily low hp" method.

Entryhazard wrote:
Word of Chaos doesn't work with the Tarrasque as it's a CN (or CE on Golarion) creature

The tarrasque is true neutral, so word of chaos works just fine. But if you're playing with a setting where the tarrasque is chaotic evil, Cthulhu can just as easily use his mythic wish SLA to duplicate mythic holy word or mythic dictum. I just picked word of chaos because it seemed the most thematic choice.


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Tarrasque still regenerates from death effects, so Unspeakable presence just saves the mythic wish slot


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Renata Maclean wrote:
Tarrasque still regenerates from death effects, so Unspeakable presence just saves the mythic wish slot

Yes, along with the benefits of automatically killing it as soon as it comes within 300 feet, with a DC 40 Will save and no allowance for SR. And the fact that as long as it remains within the area, it will continually die again immediately after regenerating, all with no effort whatsoever on the part of Cthulhu.


fear is mind-affecting.

Using a Wish to 'control' the tarrasque is certainly mind-affecting. You're basically trying to replicate a Dominate spell.

In Golarion, the tarrasque is CE, not neutral. Neutral tarrasque is inherited from 3.5. We're talking about the spawn of Rovagug here.

Oh, and the tarrasque ignores all DR, just so you know.

I'd still hand the fight to Cthulu, simply because the tarrasque doesn't have the juice to kill him before he can get rid of it.


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Das Bier wrote:
fear is mind-affecting.

Citation? The "fear" special attack is mind-affecting, and many common fear effects are mind-affecting, but as far as I can tell there's no such general rule. If there were, then text saying that an ability is a "mind-affecting fear effect" would be sort of pointless, and if the rules need to state both, then they should have here.

Das Bier wrote:
Using a Wish to 'control' the tarrasque is certainly mind-affecting. You're basically trying to replicate a Dominate spell.

No, you're replicating greater possession, which is certainly not mind-affecting. It's a necromancy spell, but the tarrasque is not immune to necromancy. If you're looking for a logical explanation of why immunity to mind-affecting doesn't help, it's basically because the spell ignores the creature's mind entirely and just takes its body away from it. But at the end of the day the rules say it's not mind-affecting, so it's not.

Das Bier wrote:
In Golarion, the tarrasque is CE, not neutral. Neutral tarrasque is inherited from 3.5. We're talking about the spawn of Rovagug here.

There's a specific campaign setting where the tarrasque is chaotic evil, but the basic rules of the game assume it to be neutral. I'm talking about the tarrasque here, the tarrasque that appears when you look up "tarrasque" in the Bestiary. Yes, it is inherited from 3.5. Just like dragons having flight speeds is inherited from 3.5. That doesn't mean it's any less of a Pathfinder rule.

But anyway, the point is moot. Your tarrasque can enjoy being chaotic evil all it wants, that just means it can get the pleasure of dying to a mythic dictum or mythic holy word.

Das Bier wrote:
Oh, and the tarrasque ignores all DR, just so you know.

It certainly ignores epic DR, but in order to bypass Cthulhu's damage reduction, its natural weapons would also have to be lawful aligned. Which, to my knowledge, they are not.


You wonder why Cthulhu can't just use his Mythic Wish to shoot the Tarrasque to somewhere an Elder God will destroy.


My Self wrote:
You wonder why Cthulhu can't just use his Mythic Wish to shoot the Tarrasque to somewhere an Elder God will destroy.

He can, assuming he knows what place to pick. I think that would fall into the category of an "inhospitable location." Actually, all of my talk about duplicating mythic plane shift has been sort of silly, since wish can just do that directly.


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Inner Sea Tarrasque (as opposed to B1 Tarrasque) is a Spawn of Rovagug, and as such ignores all DR and hardness.
Not that it helps, since Cthulhu is hardly going to let it get a swing in, but there you have it


Renata Maclean wrote:
Inner Sea Tarrasque (as opposed to B1 Tarrasque) is a Spawn of Rovagug, and as such ignores all DR and hardness.

Fair enough, if that's the version you're using.

Renata Maclean wrote:
Not that it helps, since Cthulhu is hardly going to let it get a swing in, but there you have it

And even if it did come down to a brawl, the tarrasque still has to deal with Cthulhu's AC, miss chance, and flight.


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Now, now, don't go looking down at it just cause it can't fly. With a +43 jump modifier, it can leap 5 feet off the ground!


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Avoron wrote:
My Self wrote:
You wonder why Cthulhu can't just use his Mythic Wish to shoot the Tarrasque to somewhere an Elder God will destroy.
He can, assuming he knows what place to pick. I think that would fall into the category of an "inhospitable location." Actually, all of my talk about duplicating mythic plane shift has been sort of silly, since wish can just do that directly.

You don't need to pick an area in the middle of space or nowhere. Just pick, uh, the Elder God break room. Surely Cthulhu knows where that is. What happens when an Elder God meets the Tarrasque is completely up to the GM, but suffice to say that the Tarrasque isn't coming back anytime soon.


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Das Bier wrote:
Now, now, don't go looking down at it just cause it can't fly. With a +43 jump modifier, it can leap 5 feet off the ground!

More like minimum 10 feet, maximum 15. High jumps are 1/4 your total check in feet. Or 22-27 feet when using its special rush ability. Not *that* bad.


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My Self wrote:
Avoron wrote:
My Self wrote:
You wonder why Cthulhu can't just use his Mythic Wish to shoot the Tarrasque to somewhere an Elder God will destroy.
He can, assuming he knows what place to pick. I think that would fall into the category of an "inhospitable location." Actually, all of my talk about duplicating mythic plane shift has been sort of silly, since wish can just do that directly.
You don't need to pick an area in the middle of space or nowhere. Just pick, uh, the Elder God break room. Surely Cthulhu knows where that is. What happens when an Elder God meets the Tarrasque is completely up to the GM, but suffice to say that the Tarrasque isn't coming back anytime soon.

"Cthulhu... have you been leaving tarrasques lying around in the break room again?"

"...maybe."

"How many times do we have to tell you to pick up your toys when your done using them?"


Just transfwr tarrasque to the sun.

Let see what happends.


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Veilgn wrote:

Just transfwr tarrasque to the sun.

Let see what happends.

Yes, let's.

The tarrasque is immune to fire, but it's certainly not immune to pressure. In Pathfinder, water does approximately 1d6 points of pressure damage per 100 feet (2.95 atmospheres of pressure) per minute, for an average of about 0.119 damage per atmosphere per round. If we assumes this increases proportionally for absurd pressures from inside a star (seems as good a guess as any), and we assume that Golarion's sun has similar central pressures to our own (around 250 billion atmospheres, apparently), we can calculate the amount of damage the tarrasque will be taking: 250 billion x 0.119 = 29.75 billion damage every round. In other words, every round spent inside the sun translates to about 140 years of regeneration. The tarrasque, meanwhile, must go into hibernation for the lack of breathable air. This makes it immune to any effect that could determine its location, and it has no means of regaining consciousness or escaping the sun on its own.

Sweet dreams!


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Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:

Just transfwr tarrasque to the sun.

Let see what happends.

Yes, let's.

The tarrasque is immune to fire, but it's certainly not immune to pressure. In Pathfinder, water does approximately 1d6 points of pressure damage per 100 feet (2.95 atmospheres of pressure) per minute, for an average of about 0.119 damage per atmosphere per round. If we assumes this increases proportionally for absurd pressures from inside a star (seems as good a guess as any), and we assume that Golarion's sun has similar central pressures to our own (around 250 billion atmospheres, apparently), we can calculate the amount of damage the tarrasque will be taking: 250 billion x 0.119 = 29.75 billion damage every round. In other words, every round spent inside the sun translates to about 140 years of regeneration. The tarrasque, meanwhile, must go into hibernation for the lack of breathable air. This makes it immune to any effect that could determine its location, and it has no means of regaining consciousness or escaping the sun on its own.

Sweet dreams!

I am concerned about the long term viability of a plan that leaves the tarrasque to bathe in the sun.

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