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I hope in a future product Pathfinder designers would make a feat (that can stack with itself) that increases the monster's damage reduction.
Unless there is a way to do so already that I am unaware of?
I have an iron golem and the DR 15/adamantine is not cutting it, not with PCs that can do 4 times that amount of damage to it. If I can increase it to DR 25 or 30 somehow, that'd be awesome.
While it would be nice to have an official feat for that, if you're the DM there's nothing stopping you for just giving your iron golem DR 30/adamantine.
EDIT: Or just fudge the HP. Whatever.
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I hope in a future product Pathfinder designers would make a feat (that can stack with itself) that increases the monster's damage reduction.
Unless there is a way to do so already that I am unaware of?
I have an iron golem and the DR 15/adamantine is not cutting it, not with PCs that can do 4 times that amount of damage to it. If I can increase it to DR 25 or 30 somehow, that'd be awesome.
While it would be nice to have an official feat for that, if you're the DM there's nothing stopping you for just giving your iron golem DR 30/adamantine.
EDIT: Or just fudge the HP. Whatever.
The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.
Depends on your goal. If the idea is to make an invulnerable golem that you can't get past until you go on the quest to get adamantine weapons, then DR 50 is going to work better than bonus hit points.
(Also, I don't think Iron Golems normally get feats.)
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The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.
I must say - maximizing HP punishes all martials, but not most casters. Save vs death/suck spells don't care about HP.
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I must say - maximizing HP punishes all martials, but not most casters. Save vs death/suck spells don't care about HP.
The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.
In fairness, most golems don't care about save or suck.
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In fairness, most golems don't care about save or suck.I must say - maximizing HP punishes all martials, but not most casters. Save vs death/suck spells don't care about HP.
The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.
Because Create Pit doesn't wreck them? (admittedly - it's true of most save or suck)
Just granting free hp won't be fair without a legitimate rule that allows that, my players will quickly call shenanigans.
You have a perfectly legitimate rule. "I'm the GM."
If you just want it to last more rounds, increase HP dramatically. It's more fun for players to deal a lot of damage and kill something in 5 rounds instead of to deal little damage (due to high DR) and kill it in the same 5 rounds.
I must say - maximizing HP punishes all martials, but not most casters. Save vs death/suck spells don't care about HP.
The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.
Interesting. My group plays with max HP for PCs and all monsters & NPCs, and we haven't felt that it marginalizes martials. What we've noticed is that max HP:
1. Marginalizes in-combat healing outside of the heal spell.
2. Nerfs blasters.
3. Makes combat a bit less rocket-taggey.
We do play with a roughly 25 point buy, so that no doubt has an impact as well.
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I guess I can go with D&D 3.5 Thick-Skinned feat which is the only feat that does it. Was hoping for a Pathfinder alternative.
Just throwing in a ton of HD makes them too strong. The saves and attack bonus would be too high. Just granting free hp won't be fair without a legitimate rule that allows that, my players will quickly call shenanigans.
You are misunderstanding the option. They were suggesting max hp for current HD, not raising HD. The current average for an Iron Golem is 129 hp (18d10+30), the max though is 210. Granted you are supposed to raise the CR is the hps go out of range - but if you are running hyper-optimized PCs you can keep the value at CR and the game won't break or fall apart.
Max hp nets you an increase of 81 hp, which may add a round or two to combat.
You, as the GM, have to decide what your objective is. Do you want the creature to be harder to hurt overall (so it seems invulnerable) or do you want the fights to last longer than the standard 2 rounds in PF?
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The problem with raising DR exclusively is that it can hurt the second string martial classes. Those that have more tricks vs. ultra-high damage output are going to see a marked difference in success when DR goes from 15 to 30.
Too bad these feats would not help most iron golems.
They are not intelligent creatures, so they don't get feats.
Anyway, DR is not necessarily designed to shut out martials completely, it is designed to make it harder, as well as reduce the advantages of certain styles that can deal high damage (TWF and archery) since it applies to each hit, making the many hit styles weaker.
If you are trying to put in a 'thou shalt not pass' kind of creature, throw in something much harder (adamantine?) and make it a golem with extremely limited instructions (ie- don't chase out of your room, don't attack/chase fleeing opponents, generally try to stay near the door your are guarding). Then you can simply force the PC's to find some other solution to get around it (secret tunnel, control/deactivation device, etc.)
IN Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure from old 1E, there's an Iron Golem that is absolutely invulenerable to EVERYTHING except a sword and dagger the players must find. It walks on air over holes, it takes no damage from ANYTHING.
If that's what you want your Golem to do, then DO it.
===Aelryinth
My group plays with max HP for PCs and all monsters & NPCs, and we haven't felt that it marginalizes martials. What we've noticed is that max HP:
1. Marginalizes in-combat healing outside of the heal spell.
2. Nerfs blasters.
3. Makes combat a bit less rocket-taggey.We do play with a roughly 25 point buy, so that no doubt has an impact as well.
I can sign these 3 effects. It makes battles slightly more tactical (more rounds, so more decisions) and it is martial friendly (consistent damage output becomes more important). Casters profit from it also (a few more precious HP), but at the same time, it becomes harder to stop a monster from hurting the caster. More monster HP means easier ignoring of AoO when closing to the caster, more rounds of caster grappling etc..
And we play with 15 point buy (for PCs and class leveled NPCs), so I think it's really about max HP.
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I must say - maximizing HP punishes all martials, but not most casters. Save vs death/suck spells don't care about HP.
The latter is a better idea. Maximize hit points or apply Strength mod to each hit dice as bonus hit points, rather than the measly +whatever constructs get normally. Hell, do both, make the PCs really work to take it down.Interesting. My group plays with max HP for PCs and all monsters & NPCs, and we haven't felt that it marginalizes martials. What we've noticed is that max HP:
1. Marginalizes in-combat healing outside of the heal spell.
2. Nerfs blasters.
3. Makes combat a bit less rocket-taggey.We do play with a roughly 25 point buy, so that no doubt has an impact as well.
You were just on another thread saying how much martials suck & casters rock. (and you like it that way) Think there may be a bit of a correlation?
I can sign these 3 effects. It makes battles slightly more tactical (more rounds, so more decisions) and it is martial friendly (consistent damage output becomes more important). Casters profit from it also (a few more precious HP), but at the same time, it becomes harder to stop a monster from hurting the caster. More monster HP means easier ignoring of AoO when closing to the caster, more rounds of caster grappling etc..
And we play with 15 point buy (for PCs and class leveled NPCs), so I think it's really about max HP.
All those things are true, but it also raises the relative strength of already strong caster-centric tactics like Slumber Hex / Color Spray plus coup de grace. In a group like that, martials become less important.
You were just on another thread saying how much martials suck & casters rock. (and you like it that way) Think there may be a bit of a correlation?
Correlation between what? Why can't you just state your point clearly instead of replying with snark?
(And seriously? You're going to reference that other thread? What does that other thread have to do with this one?)
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You were just on another thread saying how much martials suck & casters rock. (and you like it that way) Think there may be a bit of a correlation?Correlation between what? Why can't you just state your point clearly instead of replying with snark?
(And seriously? You're going to reference that other thread? What does that other thread have to do with this one?)
In your game you make houserules such as full HP which hurt martials.
You also talk about how martials are far weaker than casters. (moreso than most think)
I would think that the inference is pretty clear.
In your game you make houserules such as full HP which hurt martials.
You also talk about how martials are far weaker than casters. (moreso than most think)
I would think that the inference is pretty clear.
It wasn't. The only thing I was sharing in my post was my group's experience with playing with max-hp. I said it was interesting because you stated it's a nerf to martials due to SoS/SoD spells while in the game I played [with that change] as a Fey-blooded sorc who specialized in enchantment spells it didn't feel that the martials were nerfed because of it. There were 4 martials in the group, and none of them felt that max-hp was a nerf to them.
So far I've been involved with three campaigns with the max-hp rule; A Kingmaker campaign where I played the aforementioned fey sorc, a RotRl game that's currently near the end of book 4, and the homebrew campaign I'm running where the PCs are level 10. I liked the rule when I was playing in the Kingmaker campaign so I adapted it for my game. (One exception - in my game summoned monsters don't get max hp).
As to how it relates to what I said in the other thread, it's irrelevant. I could understand why you might make that comment if I was complaining that martials were weaker than casters, but since I was expressing the opposite, your reply confused me.
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It wasn't. The only thing I was sharing in my post was my group's experience with playing with max-hp. I said it was interesting because you stated it's a nerf to martials due to SoS/SoD spells while in the game I played [with that change] as a Fey-blooded sorc who specialized in enchantment spells it didn't feel that the martials were nerfed because of it. There were 4 martials in the group, and none of them felt that max-hp was a nerf to them.
They may feel that anecdotally. The math disagrees.
They may feel that anecdotally. The math disagrees.
I'm not entirely surprised. What assumptions does the math make?
I feel your pain, OP.
Templates are a good fix, and obey the RAW stricture...
+4 to all stats boosts their saves AND AC.
If you want to add hitpoints, go ahead.
As GM, you can do as you please. But make sure you keep things balanced, or players may lose interest.
If every fight is a struggle for survival, they might not like it... or they may love it.
You know your own group.
I've always thought there should be a 'Resilient' template to boost hit points / saves / AC / DR without increasing the offensive power, to create a solo enemy who can survive a few rounds, without also increasing their PC-kill-per-round power.
I've always thought there should be a 'Resilient' template to boost hit points / saves / AC / DR without increasing the offensive power, to create a solo enemy who can survive a few rounds, without also increasing their PC-kill-per-round power.
Invincible creatures sound like your best bet.
- HD 1-5: count as mythic rank 1, bonus hit points equal to the maximum possible roll on a HD, +2 natural AC, gains resist 5 to all energy damage, acquires the block attacks and second save abilities.
- HD 6-10: energy resistance increases to 10, gains DR 5/epic or adds epic to their DR conditions.
- HD 11+: counts as mythic rank 2, double bonus hit points, additional +2 natural AC, energy resistance and DR increase by 5 each.
Now, this won't exactly boost saving throws overall, but it will give them the option to shake disabling conditions.
Build your own variant golem with appropriate stats and abilities.
