Or perhaps, "My 3rd level paladin isn't going to work well with this part of necromancers, (or vice versa), but I'd rather apply the credit to him than have to apply it to a new 1st level character".I don't think that works. You can't apply the pregen credit to someone that could have legally played the table at the time.
You may not assign a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher.
Depends on levels if my Necro was level 3 and I'm playing a lvl 4 pregen I should be good to go applying the chronicle when I level up.
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Our Venture Officers and volunteers aren't actively working to make arbitrary decisions about who can and cannot play at organized play tables on a whim or "just because." Much like how the Paizo staff moderates discussions, these people moderate the experience at their table and at game days. It's not a perfect system, there will be judgement calls, and yes, some people will disagree and results may vary. Heck, it's even possible that there is somebody making bad calls (and that's the point at which to contact us directly, because we do care), since we're human and that just happens. I implore everyone in this discussion to not jump to the worst conclusion about others in the conversation. I understand that it's easy to get caught up in a game related debate, but posts really need to keep our goal of keeping this community an inviting and productive space and adhering to our Community Guidelines, which is to say: be cool to each other, folks.
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Or perhaps, "My 3rd level paladin isn't going to work well with this part of necromancers, (or vice versa), but I'd rather apply the credit to him than have to apply it to a new 1st level character".I don't think that works. You can't apply the pregen credit to someone that could have legally played the table at the time.
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Or perhaps, "My 3rd level paladin isn't going to work well with this part of necromancers, (or vice versa), but I'd rather apply the credit to him than have to apply it to a new 1st level character".I don't think that works. You can't apply the pregen credit to someone that could have legally played the table at the time.
Sure you can. That's actually what this thread started off being about.
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The differences between a pregen and having bomby alchemists levels 5 and level 1 clone
1) I can think of a lot of good reasons for playing the level 5 one. He may need/want him to get to level 6. He may want the faction boon (inferred from the scenario blerb) on his "real" / higher level character. I cannot think of a good reason to play the level 4 pregen, making me suspicious.
2) You get to play a real character. There's no question there. Whether a level 4 pregen is appropriate in a level 1-2 scenario is.. a bit rules lawyery. I hate getting advantages through unclear wording and a 3 level bump is about as big an advantage as you can think of.
3) Risk of death. His level 5 bites it he's out of luck (and gets laughed at for dying in a 1-2)
4) Consumables. His real character burns them. The pregen is shaken upside down for wand charges and doesn't.
5) His characters are real. The pregens came out of a cloning vat. I'm not denying him something he built and played for 8 months strait, I'm denying him the ability to reach for the next printed sheet over.
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*sigh* That was Season 3. The rules for pregens have changed since then.
But the intent is pretty clear, and please not that this DOES NOT contradict the guide you quoted, just clarifies it. It also doesn't seem that any of the rules for Pregens have changed in relation to playing one at will as much as something someone wants them to be.
It just means a lot of the things from the first post are not entirely correct, and if that is now the intent, then please change the guide to reflect that, so everyone can be on the same page.
Another point I want to bring up is that this rule was much more recently reiterated specifically in relation to online play, less than a year ago, but more Aprilish, to keep people from being able to play a bunch of games with pregens and apply credit to the same character, or to essentially be able to play the same character at the same time.
I want to say it was in the same thread about no more digital characters, but I could be wrong, and a cursory look didn't find it.
Now, I personally don't care, and I'd certainly allow it myself, but it seems like your post is saying the exact opposite of the rules posted, especially as official rulings on the boards are considered legal sources of rules.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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is the clarification FROM THE GUY WHO WROTE THIS PART OF THE GUIDE!
The restriction is that you cannot apply credit from a pregen to a character whose level is greater than or equal to the level of the pregen you played.
FULL STOP.
Um, actually, I remember submitting the line in question to Mike during a discussion on the guide. Which, I think, makes me the guy who "wrote" that line (quotes used because I never took credit for any of the help I offered and gave, and am only stepping in here because of the heated argument).
The intent behind that line was that a player should only be playing a pre-gen when no other option was available for the game to happen. If a player had a character in the appropriate tier, that should be the character that gets played in the scenario. Even if the player only had a paladin, and the scenario in question encouraged lying and double-dealing.
The lack of further explanation and clarification in and around that line is due to the fact that the Guide has enough words, and more words never helps end these kinds of arguments; they happen despite the best of intentions. I remember that part of the discussion, too.
My (hopefully constructive piece of) contribution to this debate: despite the intent, interpretation of ANY rule should be used for the greater good of the situation it is being interpreted for. If interpreting it one way keeps a brand new player from playing a paladin in a situation that will upset him and drive him from the Society, then by all means that's the way it should be interpreted. Also, that was three (?) years ago. Opinions from Mike and the rest of Paizo may have changed a great deal, allowing for an entirely different view of that line.
But if black and white language is what is desired, coming from the guy who submitted that line: if you have a character in-tier, you should be playing that character no matter what.
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Are the Pregens included with HeroLab legal for use?
May I use any of the Iconic NPCs included in the NPC Codex?
Yes, so long as you utilize only the level 1, 4, and 7 versions.
I played a 7th level Pregen. What options do I have for applying credit to my PCs?
You have two options:
- Reduce the gold amount to 500gp (1398gp for Modules/APs) and apply the Chronicle to a 1st level PC.
- Mark the Chronicle as having been played by a 7th level Pregen and assign it to any PC of 6th level or lower. When that PC reaches 7th level they may apply the Chronicle and gain its rewards.
Not finished yet, but how does that look so far? What else should I add?
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But if black and white language is what is desired, coming from the guy who submitted that line: if you have a character in-tier, you should be playing that character no matter what.
Fair enough. I will rule that way for my players from now on. Thank you for clearing it up.
My sincere apologies for misunderstanding the guide.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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But if black and white language is what is desired, coming from the guy who submitted that line: if you have a character in-tier, you should be playing that character no matter what.Fair enough. I will rule that way for my players from now on. Thank you for clearing it up.
My sincere apologies for misunderstanding the guide.
Don't be petty and ignore the rest of that post. You're an adult, and you have the best interests of your group at heart. Do what you feel is right. Just don't get mad at others when they are doing what they feel is in the best interests of *their* group.
I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Wait,does this;
"The intent behind that line was that a player should only be playing a pre-gen when no other option was available for the game to happen. If a player had a character in the appropriate tier, that should be the character that gets played in the scenario."Mean that if someone has a 7th level PC, and gets sat at a tier 1-7 with two 1sts & a 2nd, they play sub-tier 3-4 and he has NO OPTION to switch off to a 1st level pregin?
That's a sub-tier, as you pointed out with the last line in your post.
And, yeah, he always has a 1st level option in that situation. That was what we discussed.
Moreover, the 1-7 adventures have always occupied a "special" place in PFS rules (the "pain in the ass" place, frankly). There is something out there about a PC that is removed by two sub-tiers (something I had nothing to do with). Follow that guideline; it has not been a problem.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
Heh. Yer a hoot. /-:
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Drogon, just tell me what the rule is. I have read the guide, and apparently I did not understand what I read. The guide seems to say that players can always play a pregen, but they cannot assign the credit to a character whose level is greater than or equal to the level of the pregen played. You are telling me that is not correct. So what is the rule? I will run the games with whatever the rule is.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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@ The Fox: Your group is not mine to administer. You've linked to many posts that support your view. Others have linked to many posts that support their view. I probably shouldn't have stirred the pot, but you're being very aggressive toward people who are doing things differently than you are, and I feel that is unjustified, given the circumstances. Until and unless someone with a Paizo icon sends you a message saying you should do it differently than you are, continue to do things the way you think they should be done. Likewise, until and unless DM Beckett is told by a Paizonian that he should do things differently, you should leave him alone.
@ TOZ: No. I was involved in a discussion a long time ago with Mike via email. He wanted my opinion because he knew I had a large and successful group that I worked with, and he thought my opinion on proposed ideas would be valuable. What Jon and he discussed this year was significantly more comprehensive, and likely re-purposed a lot of what I was involved in all those years ago. Which is their right to do.
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Given that Drogon's discussion was a long time ago, and given that Mike Brock thanked TetsujinOni for help writing the guide, then Drogon's intention for the rules is almost certainly less official than TetsujinOni's intention posted three days ago.
I would posit that this makes it pretty clear that the rule is that you can use a pregen for most any reason you want.
Heh. Yer a hoot. /-:I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
No, it's a serious question. I am quite new to this PFS thing.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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No, it's a serious question. I am quite new to this PFS thing.Heh. Yer a hoot. /-:I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
You are not allowed to play any character in We Be Goblins other than the supplied pre-gens.
You may apply the chronicle you earn by playing one of those pre-gens and successfully completing the adventure to a 1st level PC of your choice.
Nothing in this discussion supersedes the rule that is in place for that adventure (which is written into the instructions on how to run this specific adventure for PFS).
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Given that Drogon's discussion was a long time ago, and given that Mike Brock thanked TetsujinOni for help writing the guide, then Drogon's intention for the rules is almost certainly less official than TetsujinOni's intention posted three days ago.
I would posit that this makes it pretty clear that the rule is that you can use a pregen for most any reason you want.
I'm not going to argue against this, assuming this is what is best for you.
What is best for *my* group: play your PC.
No, it's a serious question. I am quite new to this PFS thing.Heh. Yer a hoot. /-:I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
You are not allowed to play any character in We Be Goblins other than the supplied pre-gens.
You may apply the chronicle you earn by playing one of those pre-gens and successfully completing the adventure to a 1st level PC of your choice.
Nothing in this discussion supersedes the rule that is in place for that adventure (which is written into the instructions on how to run this specific adventure for PFS).
OK, great. But then how about a first level Pre-gen for other games- who can apply the credit for those? or they cant be played?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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OK, great. But then how about a first level Pre-gen for other games- who can apply the credit for those? or they cant be played?No, it's a serious question. I am quite new to this PFS thing.Heh. Yer a hoot. /-:I am confused. My local GMs ran us thru We be Goblins, which used exclusively Pre-gens. 1st level. According to what folks are saying, since i had some perfectly good unplayed 1st level PCs, I can't assign the credit for WbG to anyone at all? Huh?
This would mean no one gets any credit for a first level Pregen???
I have grave doubts.
You are not allowed to play any character in We Be Goblins other than the supplied pre-gens.
You may apply the chronicle you earn by playing one of those pre-gens and successfully completing the adventure to a 1st level PC of your choice.
Nothing in this discussion supersedes the rule that is in place for that adventure (which is written into the instructions on how to run this specific adventure for PFS).
Once first level became "rebuild as you please" territory a few years back, the idea of not being able to play a pre-gen pretty much got tossed, didn't it? I know you said you're new, but I also know you are very well versed in the rules of this game, and am certain that you are fully up to speed on the concept of PFS, else you wouldn't be participating.
You know what you get to do in a situation where you can play a 1st level PC: play a 1st level PC. If this means you want to bust out Kyra, then apply the credit to a 1 xp Occultist you have lying around but isn't finished, have at it. 1st level is playground territory. Play in it.
Edited because I can just see the sub-tier line getting thoroughly twisted around. Ugh...