Mastering the Elements: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Kineticist


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Silver Crusade

Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:

If you blast for 8 hours straight, you get around 432 miles just off of blasts alone (864 for air)....

That is a fairly decent road trip. You might take a little less than a week to cross an entire continent.

That's 54 mph or 108 mph for the aerokineticist; ~87 km/h and ~174 km/h, respectively.

[Edit] I'd imagine it'd look a bit like Yang during this episode of RWBY.

While not great, that was a fun, stylish show. I'd still play Yang in literally any game I could get the mechanics for her down.

Makes me wish it was easier to throw out a weakened quicken blast just for the mobility. Something that's worth thinking about.


Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:

If you blast for 8 hours straight, you get around 432 miles just off of blasts alone (864 for air)....

That is a fairly decent road trip. You might take a little less than a week to cross an entire continent.

That's 54 mph or 108 mph for the aerokineticist; ~87 km/h and ~174 km/h, respectively.

[Edit] I'd imagine it'd look a bit like Yang during this episode of RWBY.

Quite. You could very easily have a car chase (where you JUST end up losing them...assuming you don't just shoot the car directly, due to hostages or something). Of course no one truly escapes air.

Except for earth. Cause earth glide can give you enough room to hide that they have no idea which way to go. Aehter too, obviously. Those two seem to be the only ones with the full ability to do so (everyone else has smoke screen...which air can overcome by just going up for a bird's eye view, which shows which way you are going)

Seriously- kineticists are great since they have powers on a scale that allows them to big story actions with the base rules. Sieging enemies, fighting armies, doing chases, etc. They do a lot better when they aren't simply sitting in cramped dungeons.


lemeres wrote:
Seriously- kineticists are great since they have powers on a scale that allows them to big story actions with the base rules. Sieging enemies, fighting armies, doing chases, etc. They do a lot better when they aren't simply sitting in cramped dungeons.

*looks at Genbu*

Well... not all kineticists anyway.


N. Jolly wrote:
Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:

If you blast for 8 hours straight, you get around 432 miles just off of blasts alone (864 for air)....

That is a fairly decent road trip. You might take a little less than a week to cross an entire continent.

That's 54 mph or 108 mph for the aerokineticist; ~87 km/h and ~174 km/h, respectively.

[Edit] I'd imagine it'd look a bit like Yang during this episode of RWBY.

While not great, that was a fun, stylish show. I'd still play Yang in literally any game I could get the mechanics for her down.

Makes me wish it was easier to throw out a weakened quicken blast just for the mobility. Something that's worth thinking about.

maybe in a non-burn archetype *cough*overwhelming soul*cough* they could do something like this:

instead of burn, the abilities+wild talents reduced the effective CL of the blast by an equal amount.

so, at lvl9, you could throw a 5d6+5 blast, or a 3d6+3 entagling blast, or at 13lvl instead of a 7d6+7 you could throw a 4d6+4 quickened blast and etc.


Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Seriously- kineticists are great since they have powers on a scale that allows them to big story actions with the base rules. Sieging enemies, fighting armies, doing chases, etc. They do a lot better when they aren't simply sitting in cramped dungeons.

*looks at Genbu*

Well... not all kineticists anyway.

Yes, yes. They can do well there too.

I just mean....the use of continual 54 mph movement (in a dungeon, it is little different from a limited dimensional door), the long range bombardment from 480' away, the use of guerilla tactics, etc. etc. Those are abilities that only shine when you have lots and lots of space.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Just ran a one shot PFS Scenario with 4 Kineticist just to see how it would work. Went all single classic elements (no aether, all expanded)

Builds turned out like this:
Earth - Scout/Melee/Tank had disable device, stealth, tremorsense
Water - Tank/Melee/Healer Kinetic Healer, UMD, lots of AC boost
Fire - Ranged/AoE damage
Air - Switch Hitter, Buffer, decent Int, Knowledge + Spellcraft with Lantern of Revealing.

Earth had a heavy shield for melee, Air/Fire had bucklers Water the Shield defense

Overall the group was a lot of fun here were some high points:

Lots of high dex/con meant that everyone's AC/hit points were high to decent.

Earth make an awesome scout with Tremorsense, using it before every room to get an idea of what was inside.

Air kept using Celerity at the start of every fight with initiative trait and items to go faster. This made the melee contribution of earth/water much stronger.

The damage output was pretty strong because everyone could potentially open up at range then shift to a more tactical role later in combat. The ability to focus fire key enemies from different places on the battlefield provided a way to overcome certain dangers, one of them got grappled, all focused on that target for example.

Will Saves were definitely an entertaining issue, luckily nothing game changing game up but most character had solutions.

Mirror Image to prove more effective as big hits were often negated and they didn't have anyone doing lots of little attacks to eat through them. Flurry of Blasts may be useful, on at least one of them, for that reason. Earth got around it via tremorsense and closing their eyes, Toph would be proud.

Scarab Sages

lemeres wrote:
Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Seriously- kineticists are great since they have powers on a scale that allows them to big story actions with the base rules. Sieging enemies, fighting armies, doing chases, etc. They do a lot better when they aren't simply sitting in cramped dungeons.

*looks at Genbu*

Well... not all kineticists anyway.

Yes, yes. They can do well there too.

I just mean....the use of continual 54 mph movement (in a dungeon, it is little different from a limited dimensional door), the long range bombardment from 480' away, the use of guerilla tactics, etc. etc. Those are abilities that only shine when you have lots and lots of space.

It depends. You could easily combine air's reach and snake while using greater windsight to shoot from around corners and such inside of a dungeon.


Imbicatus wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Tels wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Seriously- kineticists are great since they have powers on a scale that allows them to big story actions with the base rules. Sieging enemies, fighting armies, doing chases, etc. They do a lot better when they aren't simply sitting in cramped dungeons.

*looks at Genbu*

Well... not all kineticists anyway.

Yes, yes. They can do well there too.

I just mean....the use of continual 54 mph movement (in a dungeon, it is little different from a limited dimensional door), the long range bombardment from 480' away, the use of guerilla tactics, etc. etc. Those are abilities that only shine when you have lots and lots of space.

It depends. You could easily combine air's reach and snake while using greater windsight to shoot from around corners and such inside of a dungeon.

Oooh... imagine a cave system created by lava flows, with lots of perforations from the expanding gasses creating holes. Like a Swiss cheese cave system.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...


Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...

Still...that is like getting +5' speed when you are a monk that already has 50' speed. And that is for other elements.

You already have enough speed that you are covering almost any narrative purpose that doesn't require you to just instantly teleport there. And as you just noted...it is more theoritical than anything, since this is a 'pure kine party only' thing.


Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...

I think many people fail to realize the dimensions of extradimensional storage.

A type IV Bag of Holding is a little less than a 6'x6'x7' space. Sure, a party could fit in there, but not very comfortably.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
lemeres wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...

Still...that is like getting +5' speed when you are a monk that already has 50' speed. And that is for other elements.

You already have enough speed that you are covering almost any narrative purpose that doesn't require you to just instantly teleport there. And as you just noted...it is more theoritical than anything, since this is a 'pure kine party only' thing.

Uhh...no it's not. It just takes the one Kineticist to do...

Tels, that's a great one, tell me another! A type 4 bag has more volume than the interior of a Dodge Grand Caravan. That's considered a 7-passenger vehicle. And I did recommend a Portable Hole instead... ;)


Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...

Still...that is like getting +5' speed when you are a monk that already has 50' speed. And that is for other elements.

You already have enough speed that you are covering almost any narrative purpose that doesn't require you to just instantly teleport there. And as you just noted...it is more theoritical than anything, since this is a 'pure kine party only' thing.

Uhh...no it's not. It just takes the one Kineticist to do...

Tels, that's a great one, tell me another! A type 4 bag has more volume than the interior of a Dodge Grand Caravan. That's considered a 7-passenger vehicle. And I did recommend a Portable Hole instead... ;)

Ah, misread the portable hole thing

Here is another problem- what if you need the rest of the party to get out? What happens when you start start a fight? How long does it take everyone to get out, and then to get into battle positions?

While yes- it is EXTREMELY hard to ambush you, that doesn't mean you can't be drawn into a preexisting situation- you are covering a lot of ground, and as such your chances of just stumbling on someone else getting attacked by a third party goes up exponentially. Do you leave the carriage taking supplies to the poor, blind/deaf orphans to the evil deeds of demons?


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
lemeres wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, I think when talking about using Ride the Blast for travel, people are forgetting their move action. If you have Wings of Air, an Aerokineticist could travel 1020 ft/round - which is about 116mph. That's about 64 miles more per day.

Add in Greater Air Shroud and a bag of holding and you can take the whole party along with you, too!

EDIT: I suppose a Portable Hole is a lot safer, though...since you'll all disappear forever if the bag gets punctured...

Still...that is like getting +5' speed when you are a monk that already has 50' speed. And that is for other elements.

You already have enough speed that you are covering almost any narrative purpose that doesn't require you to just instantly teleport there. And as you just noted...it is more theoritical than anything, since this is a 'pure kine party only' thing.

Uhh...no it's not. It just takes the one Kineticist to do...

Tels, that's a great one, tell me another! A type 4 bag has more volume than the interior of a Dodge Grand Caravan. That's considered a 7-passenger vehicle. And I did recommend a Portable Hole instead... ;)

Ah, misread the portable hole thing

Here is another problem- what if you need the rest of the party to get out? What happens when you start start a fight? How long does it take everyone to get out, and then to get into battle positions?

While yes- it is EXTREMELY hard to ambush you, that doesn't mean you can't be drawn into a preexisting situation- you are covering a lot of ground, and as such your chances of just stumbling on someone else getting attacked by a third party goes up exponentially. Do you leave the carriage taking supplies to the poor, blind/deaf orphans to the evil deeds of demons?

Since no action is listed to use the Portable Hole, it's a default of 1 standard. You do need a surface to deploy it on, so how long letting the party out takes depends on how high you fly. If you stick to say 50 feet, it would take 1-2 rounds and then everyone can start jumping out. You're 13th level by this point, so they should all be able to be out and in motion pretty easily.

Now, if you wanted to be cheesy, there's no terminal velocity in Pathfinder, so you could theoretically fly at 90,000ft (Greater Air Shroud), then let yourself fall and make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid damage, landing in one round. But this is where things get a little dumb. :)

Also, that 60 ft of fly speed people were forgetting gets you plenty of extra travel distance if you did want to fly at extreme altitude in order to avoid detection, etc...

Silver Crusade

Once I finish up some more work, I'll be getting back to the guide, although really I could just lift a section from my other guide since the magic items are seriously very generic from this class, like there's nothing major like a hybridization funnel or lucky enchantment that this class NEEDS. Also, do we have any word on if these rods work with gather power, or do we need gloves of storage for this jazz?


N. Jolly wrote:
Once I finish up some more work, I'll be getting back to the guide, although really I could just lift a section from my other guide since the magic items are seriously very generic from this class, like there's nothing major like a hybridization funnel or lucky enchantment that this class NEEDS. Also, do we have any word on if these rods work with gather power, or do we need gloves of storage for this jazz?

I don't recall if it was in this thread or another, but a red post mentioned that the gloves of storage is just a sunk cost to take advantage of the rods for the time being.

If I find the post, I will edit to link.

Scarab Sages

The overflowing rod just needs to be on your person to be used, it doesn't need to be held. The hollow rod and vril staff do, and you would need quick draw or gloves of storage to gather power and use them.


Imbicatus wrote:
The overflowing rod just needs to be on your person to be used, it doesn't need to be held. The hollow rod and vril staff do, and you would need quick draw or gloves of storage to gather power and use them.
Quote:

An overflowing rod amplifies and focuses the side effects of a

kineticist’s burn. While holding the rod, the kineticist counts as
3 levels higher for the purpose of determining the effects of
her elemental overflow ability.
If used by a character without
elemental overflow, the rod grants its wielder the benefit of
elemental overflow as a 3rd-level kineticist (which is generally
helpful only to low-level kineticists or kineticists with archetypes
that replace elemental overflow with another class feature).

i'm pretty sure this means you are wrong

edit:
also, from crb:

Quote:
Details relating to rod use vary from item to item. Unless noted otherwise, you must be holding a rod to use its abilities. See the individual descriptions for specifics.

none of the kineticist's rods mention that you can use it without holding it, ergo, you can't use them without holding them.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
The overflowing rod just needs to be on your person to be used, it doesn't need to be held. The hollow rod and vril staff do, and you would need quick draw or gloves of storage to gather power and use them.

I can't seem to find those on the PF SRD, mind posting a link to them please?

Scarab Sages

3 people marked this as a favorite.

For the overflowing rod, Here is the clarification.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Would a kineticist holding an overflowing rod or hollow rod or vril staff be unable to gather power as both hands/all appendages are no longer free?
Overflowing rod was intended to be one that you just carry on your person and not in hand to get passives, like rod of splendor. The other two do require being in hand, so you'll probably want gloves of storing or the like (which are pretty cheap compared to the two items in question); things that let you draw super-fast are also really helpful on that front.

Scarab Sages

N. Jolly wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
The overflowing rod just needs to be on your person to be used, it doesn't need to be held. The hollow rod and vril staff do, and you would need quick draw or gloves of storage to gather power and use them.
I can't seem to find those on the PF SRD, mind posting a link to them please?

I can't find it either, so here is the text from the book:

Overflowing Rod:

OVERFLOWING ROD PRICE
25,000 GP
SLOT none CL 10th WEIGHT 1 lb.
AURA moderate evocation
An overflowing rod amplifies and focuses the side effects of a
kineticist’s burn. While holding the rod, the kineticist counts as
3 levels higher for the purpose of determining the effects of
her elemental overflow ability. If used by a character without
elemental overflow, the rod grants its wielder the benefit of
elemental overflow as a 3rd-level kineticist (which is generally
helpful only to low-level kineticists or kineticists with archetypes
that replace elemental overflow with another class feature).
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST 12,500 GP
Craft Rod, creator must be a 10th-level kineticist

Hollow Rod:
HOLLOW ROD PRICE
121,500 GP
SLOT none CL 15th WEIGHT 5 lbs.
AURA strong (no school)
Slightly smaller and shorter than vril staves (see page 255),
hollow rods are hollow silver tubes covered in intricate glyphs
and small, flute-like keys. Three times per day, a kineticist can
utilize the hollow rod in conjunction with a blast wild talent
or the kinetic healer wild talent to augment that talent’s
destructive or healing capabilities, treating the wild talent
as maximized. A hollow rod can’t be used on a wild talent
affected by metakinesis.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST 60,750 GP
Craft Rod, creator must be a 10th-level kineticist

Vril Staff:

VRIL STAFF PRICE
200,000 GP
SLOT none CL 15th WEIGHT 5 lbs.
AURA strong transmutation
This hollow, silver staff is covered in intricate glyphs and
flute-like keys, and allows use of the
following spells:
• Mage hand (1 charge)
• Cure light wounds (1 charge)
• Cure moderate wounds (2 charges)
• Telekinesis (2 charges)
• Repulsion (3 charges)
If the wielder of a vril staff is a spellcaster,
as a standard action, she can expend
1 charge and sacrifice a prepared spell or
unused spell slot of 1st level or higher to
channel the power through the staff as a
blast of raw magical energy known as vril.
This ray resolves as a ranged touch attack
with a range of 30 feet, and the wielder
chooses whether it deals damage or heals.
The amount of damage dealt or healed by the ray is equal to
1d6 points per level of the spell sacrificed + 1 point per caster
level of the wielder.
In the hands of a kineticist, the staff functions differently. By
spending 1 charge from the staff as part of her kinetic blast, the
kineticist can use a new basic energy blast called a vril blast.
This blast deals untyped damage. A vril blast works only with
form and substance infusions that specify that they work on any
blast. If the kineticist instead spends 3 charges, her vril blast’s
intensity increases and it ignores spell resistance. A kineticist
can use a vril staff without attempting a Use Magic Device check.
A spellcaster can recharge a vril staff normally. A kineticist
can restore a single charge to a vril staff by accepting 3 points
of burn.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST 100,000 GP
Craft Staff, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, mage
hand, repulsion, telekinesis


Imbicatus wrote:

For the overflowing rod, Here is the clarification.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Would a kineticist holding an overflowing rod or hollow rod or vril staff be unable to gather power as both hands/all appendages are no longer free?
Overflowing rod was intended to be one that you just carry on your person and not in hand to get passives, like rod of splendor. The other two do require being in hand, so you'll probably want gloves of storing or the like (which are pretty cheap compared to the two items in question); things that let you draw super-fast are also really helpful on that front.

(Despite the stated intent) It would require some kind of official errata though, because the item explicitly states that you need to hold it

Silver Crusade

I side with designer intent, so I'm going to assume the rod works without a hand, making the other ones mostly trash.

Weapons and armor for magical gear are up, most are lifted from the alchemist guide, but I really can't state enough the generic gear qualities that this class has, although guided for elemental aesthetics is KING.


I do feel that can be a good thing. This is a class where weapons and armor are baked into our stat blocks if we pick certain elements. We're a ranged class half the time, which makes armor even less concerning, even if you aren't water.

Truthfully, this class has a balance factor not often mentioned. We have all the free gold we want to play with for miscellaneous items. Perhaps not many/any useful *damage* items, but there's a lot of fun toys to play with that we can enjoy now.

Dust of anything, feather token of sure I've got that. Orbs of fun things, statutes and figurines of why not?. Horns of plenty and decanters of endless water (for a hydro kineticist I mark this as a must have, since you can do a lot of fun things with your basic ability to move water). Ring of sustenance is easy to get, and there's so much more we can toy with.
For that matter, expert craftsman and craft wondrous item gives us reason to enjoy our extra feat slots too, since we now have spare feats to use on crafting and spare gold to burn on doing so.

I mean, really, an endless decanter and a few pinches of dust of dryness for a hydro? I fill a small valley, and take it with me to do fun things with.


AH, something I think needs to be mentioned: Iridescent Spindle ioun stone for earth.

Because they can earth glide...but they can't breathe while earth gliding. It doesn't come up with earth elementals since they don't need to breathe. So, as far as I am aware, this is a problem for them.

Not a huge deal, since you can hold your breath for twice your constitution score (for at least 6-10 rounds from character creation, for most), which means it isn't important for battle.

No, this is more of an issue with general exploration. The ioun stone lets you rather safely any dungeon with ease.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

An important note is that you're holding your breath for twice your constitution score, not bonus, in rounds. So a kinetecist will probably be holding his breath for 40 rounds from the get-go.

Scarab Sages

Johnny_Devo wrote:
An important note is that you're holding your breath for twice your constitution score, not bonus, in rounds. So a kinetecist will probably be holding his breath for 40 rounds from the get-go.

It's enough for combat, but not enough for most utility options. If you really want to maximize it, you need some form of air supply.

I'm a fan of air as a secondary element for access to air shroud.


Johnny_Devo wrote:
An important note is that you're holding your breath for twice your constitution score, not bonus, in rounds. So a kinetecist will probably be holding his breath for 40 rounds from the get-go.

Whoops, you are right. So 3-4 minutes baseline.

Ok, maybe that ioun stone is more of a 'nice to have, not essential' thing. You have to go pretty far out of field to have any problems with popping your head out for a breather.


air crystal alchemical items are much cheaper and are fine, duration wise for quite a few things (50gp/min)

Silver Crusade

lemeres wrote:

AH, something I think needs to be mentioned: Iridescent Spindle ioun stone for earth.

Because they can earth glide...but they can't breathe while earth gliding. It doesn't come up with earth elementals since they don't need to breathe. So, as far as I am aware, this is a problem for them.

Not a huge deal, since you can hold your breath for twice your constitution score (for at least 6-10 rounds from character creation, for most), which means it isn't important for battle.

No, this is more of an issue with general exploration. The ioun stone lets you rather safely any dungeon with ease.

I could swear there was another cheaper way of getting permanent air, is this the cheapest one? Doing some sample characters for something else, so I'm looking for an option that would minimize cost.

And Alchemical Air Crystals are nice, but really, most people are going to have nice con scores, so I'd rather go permanent source of air rather than a one shot that's giving me a bit longer underground.


My pyro picked up a necklace of adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium). Ought to work great (and half the cost of a spindle but takes up neck slot) for earth kineticist just fine. Even helps against cloudkill which holding breath doesn't help.

Silver Crusade

Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).

That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.


N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.

Unless you're in PFS, or your GM says no, it's pretty reasonable to get the necklace in another slot. For example, a mask of adaptation would be a reasonable choice and would take up the head slot.


Tels wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.
Unless you're in PFS, or your GM says no, it's pretty reasonable to get the necklace in another slot. For example, a mask of adaptation would be a reasonable choice and would take up the head slot.

I am not an expert on item craft rules by any stretch, but isn't that a x1.5 increase in price?

....that is not too much cheaper than the ioun stone. I might as well go with the slot less item that I can keep in a bag and release when I need to go on long trips in an area where I am near unnoticable.


lemeres wrote:
Tels wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.
Unless you're in PFS, or your GM says no, it's pretty reasonable to get the necklace in another slot. For example, a mask of adaptation would be a reasonable choice and would take up the head slot.

I am not an expert on item craft rules by any stretch, but isn't that a x1.5 increase in price?

....that is not too much cheaper than the ioun stone. I might as well go with the slot less item that I can keep in a bag and release when I need to go on long trips in an area where I am near unnoticable.

Nope, they got rid of that rule in Pathfinder. Items aren't forced into a slot because it costs more to change the slot. There is a recommended guideline for what slot an item should take up, but any wondrous item can be in any slot. Technically, even rings can have their slot changed (and thereby, the feat to create them) but this is strongly recommended not to do as this can alter the relative power of the crafting feats.


N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.

isn't guided 3.5 and not pf?

(i mean from when pf was still using 3.5rules and not it's own)

Silver Crusade

shroudb wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.

isn't guided 3.5 and not pf?

(i mean from when pf was still using 3.5rules and not it's own)

Yeah, I can list that as a problem with it, it doesn't seem like there's a better way to get a wisdom to attack with feats, I know there's one feat that does that, but it's tied with divine junk, which is a shame. A wis to attack feat would make them nice and SAD.


N. Jolly wrote:
shroudb wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.

isn't guided 3.5 and not pf?

(i mean from when pf was still using 3.5rules and not it's own)

Yeah, I can list that as a problem with it, it doesn't seem like there's a better way to get a wisdom to attack with feats, I know there's one feat that does that, but it's tied with divine junk, which is a shame. A wis to attack feat would make them nice and SAD.

yeah only ways i can remember to get legit pf wis to attack is either monk (forgot which archetype) or the feat following channel smite

Shadow Lodge

I was looking over the Kineticist and wanted to know if there are any ways to get more 'basic blasts' by level 8 other than the 2 free you get with First Element and Expanded Element?

John

Shadow Lodge

Question: Do people feel that the Composite Blasts will be used very often? The 2 Burn seems a high price to pay, since it doesn't appear that the base Burn cost can be reduced/negated in any way. Infusion Specialization only works on the 'added cost of infusions' added to blasts and doesn't reduce the base Composite Blast cost.

Are Composite Blasts meant to be a once a day type thing in an emergency?

John

Liberty's Edge

I think they are meant like a "I gather power as a move action, and then I shoot the composite blast" type of thing.


composites basically work off gather power.

early on, before supercharge, it is usually better to just empower simple blasts, and only use composites when you want specific infusions (and with 1 burn/use after gather power they are limited/day)

after supercharge, composites outdamage empower simple, and basically empower composite become the go-to nova blast (with a burn cost so again, limited mechanic, and that makes sense since it is basically your "nova" option)

much later on, at end game levels, you can do silly stuff like nova all your burn in a quick double empowered composite+ double empowered composite for the lulz, which is plainly stupid high burst.


The idea is that by the time you get empower, it's your full attack option rolled into one actual attack roll. By the time you get composite specialization, that's your full attack. Basically gather power isn't this "nova" option, it's for using a full attack. Whatever you can get without gathering power is your normal, standard action attack. With gather power compares to full attacking.


gather power by it's own is not the nova
gather power and still getting burn from purely damage options IS the nova.

so, at lvl7, you can full action empower blast at no cost. that is your full attack
or, at the same level, you can gather power empower composite, that is the nova i was talking about

Scarab Sages

N. Jolly wrote:
shroudb wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace or adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium).
That's what I was thinking of, thank you! It's still too expensive for what I need it for with this character, but honestly if you're not going kinetic fist (with guided amulet of mighty fist), it's not terrible since amulet of natural armor isn't super vital for like 3/5 elements.

isn't guided 3.5 and not pf?

(i mean from when pf was still using 3.5rules and not it's own)

Yeah, I can list that as a problem with it, it doesn't seem like there's a better way to get a wisdom to attack with feats, I know there's one feat that does that, but it's tied with divine junk, which is a shame. A wis to attack feat would make them nice and SAD.

If you are going kinetic fist or are a EA a two level dip in sensei monk nigh be worthwhile. Wis to hit without needing divine, and a few rounds of inspire courage as well.


Protoman wrote:
My pyro picked up a necklace of adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium). Ought to work great (and half the cost of a spindle but takes up neck slot) for earth kineticist just fine. Even helps against cloudkill which holding breath doesn't help.

Bottle of air is 7,250 gp, and it's perfectly fine for extended earth glide. The standard action is a pain if you have to use it in combat, and it doesn't have the other nifty effects, but it doesn't take up an item slot.

Shadow Lodge

Thanks all. I had overlooked Gather Power and had assumed it worked the same way as Infusion Specialization. I had not put together that a Blast was a Wild Talent, I thought it was its own special 'thing'.

That said, does anyone know of a way to get additional Blast Wild Talents outside of Expanded Element?

John


I am curious about the earthgliding options. Earth Glide is a badly written ability wherever it appears and it is far from clear how it is supposed to work. While I can see allowing someone to 5' step down into the earth I am less convinced you can 5' step upwards. You certainly cat fly 5' up as a free action and upwards movement costs double. Earth actually makes a fairly oblique reference to swim, can you swim 5' directly up if you have a fly speed?


Harliquinn Whiteshadow wrote:

Thanks all. I had overlooked Gather Power and had assumed it worked the same way as Infusion Specialization. I had not put together that a Blast was a Wild Talent, I thought it was its own special 'thing'.

That said, does anyone know of a way to get additional Blast Wild Talents outside of Expanded Element?

John

You cannot get an additional basic element outside of expanded, as this is the 'limiting' feature of the class, similar to having to choose a specific bloodline, school, etc.

Choose wisely!

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