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1. Can a Higher level character "retire" and provide superior equipment or other boon to an heir?
2. What if a Wiz (or Sorc) wanted to do something for a hero that was starting out?
3. Could you start play with; permanent-Enlarge person, Permanent-reduce person, or permanent-resistance?
4. if one compares a permanently enlarged Halfling to a human, or a permanently reduced human to a Halfling; Are humans really balanced with the other races?
5. Let's say My class has 2+ skill ranks, maybe one knowledge skill, maybe one social skill, and the attributes desired are physical-
Still my mental scores are:
Intelligence 13
Wisdom 14
charisma 10
When I am role playing my character is it really appropriate to demand a dice roll skill check - EVERY time I have an idea or want to say something? A number of PFS D.M.s seem to delight in "rushed/stressful" situations (can't take 10) and DC's of 15 or higher. it pains me that on a roll of 14 or less, I automatically fail. Of course, Dc's can be higher, anything above 20 and I have no hope what-so-ever.
It wounds me personally that, in accordance with the rules, my failure is all but guaranteed. I feel that as a player, I personally am being mistreated* and severely marginalized* (*the only allowed words I can use here or the resident board N@Z!s will delete my post).
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No, one can not be a master of all trades.
Yet, the game requires all knowledge skills to be trained...
it is as if you refuse to learn anything as you grow up.
the bards who deliver the latest on fashion, intrigues, and scandals;
nope, you never listened.
You never traveled or spoke with a traveler.
you didn't overhear anything of value...
Ever, Your-whole-life.
oh, and by the way. You are supposedly intelligent, you supposedly have common sense;
... but talking is just TOO HARD!
Certainly, some knowledge and speech should just be a given?
You grew up didn't you?
I hope to get some sort of official response to this...
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So, it seems that you are unhappy with those classes that have only two skill ranks per level. As you say, most people have picked up something of geography and medicine and so on.
Have you taken a look at the Lore Warden archetype for fighter? Have you considered dipping a level in Bard, to help build a well-rounded character?
Otherwise, it strikes me that you have an issue with the Pathfinder game system, rather than a question for the organized play campaign.
Two other notes: ix-nay with the azi-nay references. The folks maintaining our boards are members of the community who have to deal with all the unpleasantness that a community this size might generate on delicate subjects. And you won't find official responses to general rules concerns by posting on the PFS boards and asking for them. Rather, I'd recommend going to the Rules section, asking a question, and seeing if you can get the folks there to agree that an official answer is needed.
And welcome to PFS. It's great to have you.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Upon further reflection the answer to your first question is yes, but you need to get a character to retirement first.
And the answer to the second question is also yes. A high-level wizard might let an up-and-coming colleague copy spells from his spellbook.
But, as Rushley has noted, the permanency spell, like awaken and a handful of other spells, is banned in this campaign. (That's an easy sidebar to miss in the Guide to the Pathfinder Society Organized Campaign document, but it's been there since the beginning of Season 0.)
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. Can a Higher level character "retire" and provide superior equipment or other boon to an heir?
2. What if a Wiz (or Sorc) wanted to do something for a hero that was starting out?
3. Could you start play with; permanent-Enlarge person, Permanent-reduce person, or permanent-resistance?
4. if one compares a permanently enlarged Halfling to a human, or a permanently reduced human to a Halfling; Are humans really balanced with the other races?
5. Let's say My class has 2+ skill ranks, maybe one knowledge skill, maybe one social skill, and the attributes desired are physical-
Still my mental scores are:
Intelligence 13
Wisdom 14
charisma 10When I am role playing my character is it really appropriate to demand a dice roll skill check - EVERY time I have an idea or want to say something? A number of PFS D.M.s seem to delight in "rushed/stressful" situations (can't take 10) and DC's of 15 or higher. it pains me that on a roll of 14 or less, I automatically fail. Of course, Dc's can be higher, anything above 20 and I have no hope what-so-ever.
It wounds me personally that, in accordance with the rules, my failure is all but guaranteed. I feel that as a player, I personally am being mistreated* and severely marginalized* (*the only allowed words I can use here or the resident board N@Z!s will delete my post).
1. Well kinda, if you have a Scarab Sages faction card, another character of yours could inherit it.
And there are some boons that grant benefits to newly created character, you should be able to earn some by playing your current character.2. Not really, or to be more precise... they don't want to.
3. No, there are plenty of ways to get the effect once combat starts (like a cleric subdomain).
4.No/Yes/Maybe depends on the value you put one additional skill points and the extra feat, balanced doesn't mean, that everybody is equally good at everything.
5. Some classes are better at some things than others, for example fighters and barbarians are pretty good when it comes to the physical stuff like climb and acrobatics, caster types have different class skills and attributes, thus they are better in other areas.
When to call for a roll and when characters are unable to take 10 really depends on the GM, not everybody makes the same choices.
If you find the GMs in your area unsatisfactory in that regard, I heartily suggest you to take up the GM mantle yourself (or stop playing at the tables of those GMs).
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1. So, it seems that you are unhappy with those classes that have only two skill ranks per level.
2. Otherwise, it strikes me that you have an issue with the Pathfinder game system, rather than a question for the organized play campaign.
3. And welcome to PFS. It's great to have you.
1. yep. 2+ skill ranks at low levels can still be wiped away by equipment ala. armor skill check penalty. thus physically demanding class, may end up with even less skill than 2+...
Yet, My situation is made worse. You see, I had to abandon my Ranger-guide. That's a 6+ class, add on the human bonus skill rank, the favored class bonus skill, a 13 intelligence and 14 wisdom. That's 9 skill ranks I applied. Yet, after a limited class skills list, equipment penalties and striving to meet a class role...Climb
heal
intimidate
know nature
perception
ride
stealth
survive
swim
A bit of a shame really. I liked using Weapon and shield combat style.
I had made 3rd level, but the extreme nature of the ... limits on my character outweighed any roleplaying by me.
Wanna hear something funny? My ranger character was mocked and told by an NPC during one adventure that his skills would never be needed!
Oh no, wait! That was two separate adventures? yeah, it was two.
2. I do have an issue. No matter my personal ability to role play my character, the rules regarding skill availability and development place, shall we say... a crippling limitation on my character which restrains him from making progress or making any valuable contribution.
Because certain words are BANNED here, I will say that this makes ME personally feel disparaged and denied participation. Feeling Like a, hmm, a quote from the comedy movie, "Tropic Thunder"; I can't repeat it here because, well... it is Verboten.
this isn't specific to any single DM as I have had many DMs deign to apply the rules in this fashion. Worse still, I've been playing PRG's since 78 and I have read the rule books countless times; it appears this disenfranchising character assassination appears to be what the rules actually REQUIRE!
My most recent character is a Bard-archaeologist, with a trait for disable device and swim. I took the feats: noble scion, and alterness.
I invested my 10 skill ranks carefully.
Yet still, No good. 15 str, 14 dex, 10 con, 14 int, 12 wis, 14 cha, having bardic knowledge, and 1 rank each spent on;
bluff
climb
diplomacy
intimidate
perception
sense motive
stealth
swim
still left my character being the subject of much derision as My dice rolls did not once beat a single dc...
3. Hey, I'd love to game, but these rules are *NOT* making me feel "welcome" in any sense of the word.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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No, one can not be a master of all trades.
Yet, the game requires all knowledge skills to be trained...
it is as if you refuse to learn anything as you grow up.
the bards who deliver the latest on fashion, intrigues, and scandals;
nope, you never listened.You never traveled or spoke with a traveler.
you didn't overhear anything of value...Ever, Your-whole-life.
oh, and by the way. You are supposedly intelligent, you supposedly have common sense;
... but talking is just TOO HARD!
Certainly, some knowledge and speech should just be a given?
You grew up didn't you?I hope to get some sort of official response to this...
Training You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.
Bardic Knowledge (Ex)
A bard adds half his class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Every character starts with common and maybe the regional language.
What kind of official response are you expecting?
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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1. So, it seems that you are unhappy with those classes that have only two skill ranks per level.
2. Otherwise, it strikes me that you have an issue with the Pathfinder game system, rather than a question for the organized play campaign.
3. And welcome to PFS. It's great to have you.
1. yep. 2+ skill ranks at low levels can still be wiped away by equipment ala. armor skill check penalty. thus physically demanding class, may end up with even less skill than 2+...
Yet, My situation is made worse. You see, I had to abandon my Ranger-guide. That's a 6+ class, add on the human bonus skill rank, the favored class bonus skill, a 13 intelligence and 14 wisdom. That's 9 skill ranks I applied. Yet, after a limited class skills list, equipment penalties and striving to meet a class role...Climb
heal
intimidate
know nature
perception
ride
stealth
survive
swimA bit of a shame really. I liked using Weapon and shield combat style.
I had made 3rd level, but the extreme nature of the ... limits on my character outweighed any roleplaying by me.Wanna hear something funny? My ranger character was mocked and told by an NPC during one adventure that his skills would never be needed!
Oh no, wait! That was two separate adventures? yeah, it was two.2. I do have an issue. No matter my personal ability to role play my character, the rules regarding skill availability and development place, shall we say... a crippling limitation on my character which restrains him from making progress or making any valuable contribution.
Because certain words are BANNED here, I will say that this makes ME personally feel disparaged and denied participation. Feeling Like a, hmm, a quote from the comedy movie, "Tropic Thunder"; I can't repeat it here because, well... it is Verboten.
this isn't specific to any single DM as I have had many DMs deign to apply the rules in this fashion. Worse still, I've been playing PRG's since 78 and I have read the rule books countless times; it...
Skill points are a valuable resource, expecting a character to keep things like climb swim and ride on max. ranks is usually quite unreasonable, especially of the character doesn't require those skills all the time.
Without knowing the NPC in question and the context, I can't really judge the NPC situation... but does it really matter?
The D20 system rewards specialization, sometimes only the character with 2-3 +8 skills feels like they are contributing. However thx to aid another having a couple of +4 skills around can be worth the investment.
Regarding the Bard, skill monkey is usually not sufficient in PFS, you should be able to do other things too - I don't doubt that you have a plan for the Archaeologist, but in combat performance is often the critical factor.
Out of combat skills are great and sometimes mission critical too, however I feel that you might have invested a bit too much into that area.
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What kind of official response are you expecting?
uhm, let me see...
oh, I don't know...
I think I forgot it...
or maybe, you didn't read what I have been writing?
Seriously, is the current limitation inflicting skill mechanic with "Dice-beats-player" what this game is all about?
am I supposed to enjoy a "Role-playing" game that blocks my efforts to role play my character?
Are the DMs and rude NPC text of some adventures right?
That my "character" simply isn't needed?
is this the official intent?
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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What kind of official response are you expecting?uhm, let me see...
oh, I don't know...
I think I forgot it...
or maybe, you didn't read what I have been writing?
You come off a little bit strong, it seems you have some longstanding grievances/opinions. But my question was quite honest, some people aks for clarification, some want the PFS rules to be changed and others just want to learn that their GM has misapplied the PFS rules.
Seriously, is the current limitation inflicting skill mechanic with "Dice-beats-player" what this game is all about?
am I supposed to enjoy a "Role-playing" game that blocks my efforts to role play my character?
Roleplaying and succeeding at set mechanical difficulties is not the same thing.
I know quite a number of gamers who are perfectly happy to use the skill system when it comes to a number of subjects (like rolling acrobatics, using handle animal) but want to RP their diplomacy at with the exclusion of any modifier or dice roll.Since this approach would make investing into social skills a colossal waste of time and resources, I am quite happy that the PFRPG uses the current system of actually requiring the checks.
It is worth mentioning that GMs are not robots, and even the guide mentions the option to use "creative solutions".
to role play my character?
Are the DMs and rude NPC text of some adventures right?
That my "character" simply isn't needed?
is this the official intent?
Can you please describe the situation in detail in a spoiler tag, some NPCs from previous sessions were a bit antagonistic, like "Oh I could just do it myself, but since it is pretty obviously a suicide mission, I prefer sending you ...."
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Chad, it looks like you've been really upset by your experience so far, so I recommend you take some time to cool off before looking for answers, because your tone is putting a lot of people off.
If you have concerns about how you were treated by your GMs, you can contact your local Venture Officer about it. If they can't or won't help you, you can email Mike.Brock@paizo.com, the Campaign Coordinator.
If you want help creating a character that meets your expectations, you can head over to the Advice forum, which is full of people willing to help.
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a fool learns nothing,
a smart person learns from their own mistakes,
a wise person learns from the mistakes of others,
******think about what this should mean for the game*************
Certainly a character has to have life experience, right?
So the idea that I can't use a knowledge skill is *BLATANTLY* telling me that I DO NOT KNOW, and can not even HOPE to know ANYTHING for no reason other than it is in the rules...
The Idea that I can not; persuade, plead, encourage, insult, annoy, judge character, chat about the recent years weather, recall local gossip, remember anything from church, not have any knowledge of a trade, not know how to cook, not know how to start a fire, not recall any fishing trip, no encounter with poison ivy/oak or a skunk, absolutely never had an opportunity to learn quintessential "STUFF" that we all do everyday,
or anything from a lifetime of experience...
it is just wrong.
I quit.
goodbye.
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a fool learns nothing,
a smart person learns from their own mistakes,
a wise person learns from the mistakes of others,
******think about what this should mean for the game*************Certainly a character has to have life experience, right?
So the idea that I can't use a knowledge skill is *BLATANTLY* telling me that I DO NOT KNOW, and can not even HOPE to know ANYTHING for no reason other than it is in the rules...The Idea that I can not; persuade, plead, encourage, insult, annoy, judge character, chat about the recent years weather, recall local gossip, remember anything from church, not have any knowledge of a trade, not know how to cook, not know how to start a fire, not recall any fishing trip, no encounter with poison ivy/oak or a skunk, absolutely never had an opportunity to learn quintessential "STUFF" that we all do everyday,
or anything from a lifetime of experience...
it is just wrong.
I quit.
goodbye.
Well, in all honesty, you are not correct. For example, while the knowledge skill cannot be used untrained (generally), it CAN be used untrained when the DC is 10 or less - that represents what the normal person would have picked up, learned, etc. without any sort of formal study (and if you have access to an extensive library, this limit is removed). Skill ranks indicate time, effort, etc. that one has devoted to learning more than just what he or she happens upon.
And many of the actions you list are going to be skills that can be used untrained (persuade/plead/encourage would all be Diplomacy, etc.)
But, you've decided to quit and leave, so you won't see this message. Good journeys to you.
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Knowledge skills is an area where the game is generally acknowledged to have issues. That said, in theory (this varies a LOT by GM) you can know a fair bit with a knowledge check of 10.
Low level characters cannot excel at too much. That is the nature of the game. That said, a skilled character can be quite effective in their specialties even at level 1. What they can't be is good at a wide range of things.
One thing that might interest you is the human specific feat improvisation. It let's you be moderately competent in EVERYTHING. NOT expert, mind.
But as others have said it is impossible to be good at everything in Pathfinder, especially at low levels. That is the nature of the game. If you can't accept that then perhaps Pathfinder isn't the game for you. That is NOT meant critically, Pathfinder absolutely is NOT the game for every taste.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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a fool learns nothing,
a smart person learns from their own mistakes,
a wise person learns from the mistakes of others,
******think about what this should mean for the game*************Certainly a character has to have life experience, right?
So the idea that I can't use a knowledge skill is *BLATANTLY* telling me that I DO NOT KNOW, and can not even HOPE to know ANYTHING for no reason other than it is in the rules...The Idea that I can not; persuade, plead, encourage, insult, annoy, judge character, chat about the recent years weather, recall local gossip, remember anything from church, not have any knowledge of a trade, not know how to cook, not know how to start a fire, not recall any fishing trip, no encounter with poison ivy/oak or a skunk, absolutely never had an opportunity to learn quintessential "STUFF" that we all do everyday,
or anything from a lifetime of experience...
it is just wrong.
I quit.
goodbye.
Mostly just for the benefit of anybody finding this later:
Almost everything mentioned above, can be used untrained and most of the time take 10 (without having a rank or a stat below 10) is enough... like recognizing the holy symbol or clergy of a major religion (DC10 knowledge religion),
starting a fire doesn't have a DC, but let's see what a DC 10 survial checks gives us: Get along in the wild. Move up to half your overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10.
There are other examples, but the real lesson here is that most of the skills list something you can reliably do with take 10 (or 20 in some cases).
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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a fool learns nothing,
a smart person learns from their own mistakes,
a wise person learns from the mistakes of others,
******think about what this should mean for the game*************Certainly a character has to have life experience, right?
So the idea that I can't use a knowledge skill is *BLATANTLY* telling me that I DO NOT KNOW, and can not even HOPE to know ANYTHING for no reason other than it is in the rules...The Idea that I can not; persuade, plead, encourage, insult, annoy, judge character, chat about the recent years weather, recall local gossip, remember anything from church, not have any knowledge of a trade, not know how to cook, not know how to start a fire, not recall any fishing trip, no encounter with poison ivy/oak or a skunk, absolutely never had an opportunity to learn quintessential "STUFF" that we all do everyday,
or anything from a lifetime of experience...
it is just wrong.
I quit.
goodbye.
Looks like the OP has left and is not seeking any further resolution so locking this thread.