New to DM'ing


Advice


I just stared playing pathfinder at the start of this summer and instantly loved it. I'm now working on a campaign of my own to run and would like some advice on GM'ing. I have the beginners box and DM'ed the pre-made Blackfang's dungeon, but thats all the experience I have with DM'ing, so any useful tips or tricks would be nice. I've also read some of the CRB's stuff on DM'ing as well.

Sovereign Court

There are a number of GM assistance books you should check out. Ultimate campaign would be a good read for world building. I think being newer, like you are, you would get a lot of mileage from the Game-mastery Guide as well. The Dungeon Masters Guide II from the 3.5 era is one of my favorite world building guides. DMG II is from 3.5 era so you would have to hunt it down on amazon but its worth getting, IMO.

Also, the AP line is great for mining ideas if you dont want to run the entire campaign. You might even get some mileage out of the subforums reading about all the extra work some folks have put into running APs. Take advanatge of the free RPG downloads that paizo offers too.

TLDR: reading, reading, reading..... Either published adventures, how to guides, and especially the forums. Good luck and welcome aboard.


I would grab a few of the stand alone adventures for levels 1 to 4. Look through the website here and find one to download for cheap. Also a great place to see people's experiences so you'll be happy.

Then have a simple adventure, and get used to driving. Then branch out from there.


GM101 and 201 free downloads Basics are covered and even after *cough* years of DMing (since 1e AD&D) I still found some useful stuff in there.

Every GM is different, find your own style and don't let anyone tell you it is wrong - as long you and your players are having fun you're probably doing it right.

Don't be afraid of constructive criticism. I know I still have much to learn.

Yeah, those two might be contradictory - welcome to GMing :)

Don't be afraid of your mistakes. You will get things wrong, don't sweat it. Look up the rules/assess what went wrong, decide how you'll deal with it next time and move on.


Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.


Also remember Ernest Hemingway tossed the manuscript for his first novel into the ocean. Never be afraid to rewrite and remember no DM is born full grown like Athena from the head of Zeus. So have fun and be open to learn.


Are you good to go, or do you want more, and more specific advice from us old guys/gals? I'm trying not to get into specifics because as has already been said, every DM must find his/her own voice.


TheAM wrote:
I just stared playing pathfinder at the start of this summer and instantly loved it. I'm now working on a campaign of my own to run and would like some advice on GM'ing. I have the beginners box and DM'ed the pre-made Blackfang's dungeon, but thats all the experience I have with DM'ing, so any useful tips or tricks would be nice. I've also read some of the CRB's stuff on DM'ing as well.

You are going to run into a wide assortment of people in your GMing career. Some of these people like play games that unfold like novels, others like stories that are similar to short stories, and still some others like straight-forward stories where the heroes are more or less participants in the GM's story.

Be aware that if you are working 40 or more hours a week it is practically impossible to build content on a weekly basis unless you're pulling it out of your butt. This is precisely what many GMs refer to when they say that they just didn't have time to game anymore.

You will run into a handful of other example players:
1) People who do, "what their character would do," and often times play Chaotic Neutral characters that exist to do whatever random crap the player finds funny at the time;
2) People who, "get in character to try and think about their character's long-term goals and how to meet them," and often play every alignment under the sun;
3) People who chase the story to push it forward through your content. These people are usually liked by the GM, but disliked by group 1. Group 2 can stand them, and usually like them. They, obviously, tend to get along with their own group.
These groups are not mutually exclusive, but Group 1s tend to not be Group 3s.

There are players who think that you have infinite content for them to explore, and they get upset when they walk East when the adventure is North and run into either an invisible wall or just endless expanse with nothing in it. Be aware that this is going to happen sooner or later, and these people are going to complain constantly or just not show up because the story that you currently have written isn't what they want to do.

Be aware that you are going to have players just decide to not show up and not let you know until the next day.

Be aware that if you play Kingmaker your players are going to be spoiled by the freedom of being able to go anywhere any time they want. Compare this to Second Darkness or Curse of the Crimson Throne where the story is more directed.

Be aware that your players want to have the illusion of choice, but there are going to be those that just decide they are not going to go be the heroes that save the day even though they are the heroes that are supposed to save the day.

Expect them to get upset that there are things in the world that are more powerful than they are, that they are supposed to run away from and that they will stand against because that group of 100 monsters or that monster of legends that they thought was a bogeyman from children's stories is obviously, from their point of view, something they should fight at level 1.

Keep in mind that the CR system is build upon the axiom of having 4 player characters. If you have less or more you need to adjust the difficulty of the encounter to keep it interesting. The book offers an idea on how to do this, but you can do it more accurately by taking the CR (-1, 0, +1, +2, +3), dividing the XP value by 4, then multiplying it by the number of players. Then use that to fill out the XP for the encounter.

Keep in mind that the more monsters there are for the players the more specialized the monsters need to be to be effective, but if the monsters are too effective the players will just die.

Scarab Sages

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When in doubt, make something cool or weird happen.

Steal shamelessly - from books you read, TV, movies, published adventures. Don't worry about the party recognizing the thing you stole. They either won't notice or will feel clever for getting the reference.

Don't get hung up on game mechanics.

Every couple of minutes, give the players a decision to make. Even if it's as simple as "What do your characters want for lunch?" If they're making decisions, they're engaged.

Don't be afraid to let the players shape the story.


TheAM wrote:
I just stared playing pathfinder at the start of this summer and instantly loved it. I'm now working on a campaign of my own to run and would like some advice on GM'ing. I have the beginners box and DM'ed the pre-made Blackfang's dungeon, but thats all the experience I have with DM'ing, so any useful tips or tricks would be nice. I've also read some of the CRB's stuff on DM'ing as well.

Depending on how much you want to spend, I can thoroughly recommend the following books (roughly in order) for an aspiring Pathfinder DM:

The GameMastery Guide is pretty much designed exactly for what you want - advice for introductory GMs on how to run a good Pathfinder Game.

The Strategy Guide is geared towards players, but I think it provides some useful insight into how the system works and would be good value for a new DM (it also makes a good book to lend to new players to help them find their feet - an important role of DMs, in my view). If you're already across building characters, you probably dont need this.

Ultimate Campaign provides rules and subsystems for 'branching out' a little from the normal campaign. It's my favorite rulebook, but could hardly be considered essential for a new campaign. Nonetheless, I think down the track this is well worth a look.

All of those have pretty cheap PDFs available, if you want to 'try before you buy' or if you prefer electronic formats.

In addition to the above rulebooks, Paizo produced an excellent introductory module when Pathfinder came out (for both beginning players and DMs) called The Crypt of the Everflame. Unfortunately, it's out of print, but you can still buy the PDF here and may be able to find secondhand copies around the place.

It provides a good lead-in to an ongoing campaign (there are two sequel modules) without having to sign up to an entire Adventure Path, which is quite a significant commitment.


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From a 'how to do it' point of view, I find it's important to have the right mindset:

Accept that it's never going to go quite how you envisaged it would - the players will do weird things and totally miss your 'obvious' clues and plot hooks. You'll have an off night - forget to mention key facts, play NPCs poorly and other such misses. You'll have an exciting story-arc planned and it will become obvious that your players dont really care for it and are much more interested in something you threw out there as a bit of background flavor.

Allow the game to evolve and let what the players enjoy drive where you go. I think that's the key to making a fun game - dont fall into the trap of running the game you'd like to play in if your players have different tastes.


Be a fan of the player's characters.

Think of it like a TV drama that you watch. You enjoy it when your favorite character experiences success. When that same character experiences defeat, you feel sad for them, but it also means when they overcome that obstacle, it feels that much better.

Your job is to put obstacles in their path. Not so that they can't succeed, but rather just enough obstacles so that success feels rewarding and that it was earned.

Keep the action moving.

Imagine a locked door and the plot only moves forward if the PC's get beyond the door. Instead of requiring success to get through the door, the roll becomes about getting through the door without complication. If they fail, maybe the guards come along and spot them. Or maybe whatever they were seeking is already gone. Or the thieves tools break and the player takes a -2 to all rolls until he can get back to town and fix/replace them. Failing a roll doesn't HAVE to stop the action.


Know your players and what their expectations are. If you make an amazing campaign of style A, but the players are expecting style B, then even though it is amazing it won't be fun for them.

Second, be fair. Fair to the players, fair to the monsters, and fair to the campaign world.

Third, take copious notes. If you introduce Bob the innkeeper, make sure that next time the PCs run into that character, his name is still Bob. This helps create a consistent world.

Fourth, get ready to dedicate many hours to this game.

Lastly, have fun and don't be afraid to seek assistance.


Don't try to railroad too obviously-if you have spent hours preparing a specific dungeon or encounter, have it ready, but also plan for them wandering off randomly.

Always have a rough idea of what ELSE is going on outside of your planned adventure.

If kobolds are terrorizing a small town, and you want the adventurers to go clear out the cave, figure out why the local military isn't acting on it... maybe a more serious threat (like orcs) that would be appropriate for the party at a later level!

Have a list of random names, or a name generator. Keep track of NPCs as they are introduced, because players will assume anyone that has a name serves a purpose.

Even the bartenders. :D


Have fun. Preparation is key. Challenge your players. Keep having fun.


Welcome to a great hobby! Two things. Keep the game focused on the players, and read the free book at www.gamemastering.info. I have been playing and GMing for a long time and I found that book very helpful. I wish that I had it in my library when I started.

Good luck!


So, real tips (in addition to others):
The rule of K.I.S.(S). applies: Keep It Simple (Stupid).
The more simplistic the plot and story is, the more easily you can twist things around to fit what the players are doing.
Remember that choice in Pathfinder boils down to being an illusion: ultimately the players are limited by what you have prepared.

Allowing your players to feel like they have agency is more important than how cool your story is. If your story is complex and novel-like then you will like it, but your players will probably hate it. Therefore, instead of writing a cool story, you should try to set in place the major players: the villains, the supporting cast, the other heroes and the other PCs, but you should make sure that you seed plot-hooks everywhere. You cannot rely on your players to be the types to go the local tavern or town guard to hear about rumors or dangers threatening the land.

The rule of everywhere goes "there" can apply. If you tell your players exactly where they need to go some will go straight there, most will explore the area around that, and some will just go everywhere but there. Therefore you want to try to not give direct locations, but instead simply allow the players to feel ingenious by "finding" the content you want them to explore. This is kind of quick and dirty, but don't abuse it too much. Let them run into random encounters, and keep in mind that sometimes they just run into nothing. Be logical with how the players run into this content. If they are told that the evil guy's dungeon is to the south, and the players head north then they shouldn't run into his dungeon. They might run into one of the BBEG's lieutenants instead.

The biggest and coolest encounters tend to have a tough enemy with several weaker supporting enemies. This could be a tough front-line monster with several archers or spell-casters. Remember that the system is already balanced towards the heroic classes, so you don't need to pull your punches all that much.

Build dungeons for specific things, but these things do not need to be overly designed. I've built dungeons as complex as those found in the original Deus Ex with hidden passages and everything. The players walked past all of the cool stuff, didn't notice anything, found a single hidden passage but just decided it wasn't worth their time. If you build a piece of content to be potentially conquered by force, by social or by stealth then you will lose 2/3 of your effort unless there is a punishment for failing them. At the same time if these things are hard-required and your party doesn't have the required skill then they will feel like you're punishing them just to do so.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Victor Von Fausten wrote:
Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.

can be hard with a lot of pressure. I don't like people who claim all you need to do is have fun. that's like saying "all you need to do to climb mount Everest is get to the top". It discounts all the hard work that's needed.

If you're making a campaign, then i recommend hosting a session 0 in which everyone makes their characters together and explains what they imagine the story should be about with these character. encourage people to have their character backstories involve other PCs, this can smooth out any roleplaying to get the group together.

don't be afraid to fudge results while you're gauging the parties strengths and weaknesses. if the encounter is too weak consider a second wave. if it's too strong consider enemy morale and the possibility of them routing.

Shadow Lodge

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Here you go.


Broken Zenith wrote:
Here you go.

Yes it is a great deal of work, but if your'e not having fun, if preparation, world creation, npc creation, encounter set up, story telling, etc. aren't fun, What's the point?

I have been DMing since 1978, I didn't even play a character until 1981 for the first three years of my gaming life, I only DMed. I have spent many long hours preparing to GM Dungeons and Dragons 1e 2e and 3.5e. I have also spent long hours preparing to GM Top Secret, Twilight 2000, Traveler, Cyberpunk, Toon, G.U.R.P.S. assorted White Wolf games, Villains and Vigilantes, and many others that I can't remember.

From 1978 until 1997 every moment was fun and a joy. In '97 it became a drudgery so I quit. An old friend of mine invited me to play in a 3.5 game that he was running in 2010 (I think, not certain on the year, but it was shortly before 4e came out). I got hooked again and after 4e came out transitioned into Pathfinder.

Every minute playing or DMing since has once again been pure joy.

So, yes there is more to it than having fun, but if you're not having fun why bother? That is the most important foundation to any gaming.


Sorry, this was intended as a response to Bandw2, not Broken Zenith. My bad.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

dat preview button though

:P

and my point is, you can't just ignore the challenges between having fun and where you are. you NEED to consider them, if you don't you're doomed to fail. simply stating "as long as you're having fun" is not as helpful as one might think.


Bandw2 wrote:
Victor Von Fausten wrote:
Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.

can be hard with a lot of pressure. I don't like people who claim all you need to do is have fun. that's like saying "all you need to do to climb mount Everest is get to the top". It discounts all the hard work that's needed.

If you're making a campaign, then i recommend hosting a session 0 in which everyone makes their characters together and explains what they imagine the story should be about with these character. encourage people to have their character backstories involve other PCs, this can smooth out any roleplaying to get the group together.

don't be afraid to fudge results while you're gauging the parties strengths and weaknesses. if the encounter is too weak consider a second wave. if it's too strong consider enemy morale and the possibility of them routing.

Wow. Mr.Grumpy Pants. Save me a spot at your table, please.


Don't try to do everything yourself. Share responsibilities, like have someone track the initiative, someone else with a CRB to look up rules, leaving you free to hold the focus of what's happening.

The "have fun" advice is, from my perspective, a reminder that the game is a cooperative one, not adversarial. And this goes both ways: the Players should enjoy themselves, AND the GM also needs to enjoy running the game. If Players don't, they won't come back. If the GM doesn't, there's no game.

And kudos for being willing to take on that role! GM'ing can be very frustrating, and it can be very rewarding, all in the same session.

Good luck to you!


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Brother Fen wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Victor Von Fausten wrote:
Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.

can be hard with a lot of pressure. I don't like people who claim all you need to do is have fun. that's like saying "all you need to do to climb mount Everest is get to the top". It discounts all the hard work that's needed.

If you're making a campaign, then i recommend hosting a session 0 in which everyone makes their characters together and explains what they imagine the story should be about with these character. encourage people to have their character backstories involve other PCs, this can smooth out any roleplaying to get the group together.

don't be afraid to fudge results while you're gauging the parties strengths and weaknesses. if the encounter is too weak consider a second wave. if it's too strong consider enemy morale and the possibility of them routing.

Wow. Mr.Grumpy Pants. Save me a spot at your table, please.

I feel like no one actually read what i wrote.

"just have fun" not great advice for someone taking up the banner for the first time.


This is very vague and probably not that helpful, but HAVE FUN.

Keep that in mind as long as you play. That should be the goal, and every thing you design or throw at the party should be anchored on this. That is why you, and your party are playing, after all.


Bandw2 wrote:
Brother Fen wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Victor Von Fausten wrote:
Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.

can be hard with a lot of pressure. I don't like people who claim all you need to do is have fun. that's like saying "all you need to do to climb mount Everest is get to the top". It discounts all the hard work that's needed.

If you're making a campaign, then i recommend hosting a session 0 in which everyone makes their characters together and explains what they imagine the story should be about with these character. encourage people to have their character backstories involve other PCs, this can smooth out any roleplaying to get the group together.

don't be afraid to fudge results while you're gauging the parties strengths and weaknesses. if the encounter is too weak consider a second wave. if it's too strong consider enemy morale and the possibility of them routing.

Wow. Mr.Grumpy Pants. Save me a spot at your table, please.

I feel like no one actually read what i wrote.

"just have fun" not great advice for someone taking up the banner for the first time.

I said that was the best advice, not the only advice. I did ask if he has some more specific questions.

Have you ever trained someone in at work? While, "just have fun" isn't the best advice for work, or climbing Mount Everest for that matter, you can't bury them with well intentioned advice either. You have to start with the basics, slowly. If you want to climb Mount Everest you start with a much smaller, easier hill and decide if you even like climbing before you move on the the harder things. Every DM needs to find a style that works for him/her and his/her players. Burying him/her with too much advice from the get go tends to produce paralysis through analysis. I have seen too many beginner DMs throw their hands up in despair because they are trying to do too much. Let him start easy and find out what his group likes first.

Others were giving other good advice, and I didn't want to throw too much at him in the beginning, let him DM a few sessions, then ask for tips once he gets his feet wet.

You accuse others of not reading what you wrote, read what I wrote.

Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give.

Also remember Ernest Hemingway tossed the manuscript for his first novel into the ocean. Never be afraid to rewrite and remember no DM is born full grown like Athena from the head of Zeus. So have fun and be open to learn.

Are you good to go, or do you want more, and more specific advice from us old guys/gals? I'm trying not to get into specifics because as has already been said, every DM must find his/her own voice.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

and you see that first paragraph was actually useful advice. he can do something with that advice(also the throw out manuscript, the expression I prefer is sometimes it's better to abandon ship and build a new boat than to keep trying to patch the holes in a sinking one), even if it wasn't aimed at him, i still say "just have fun" is the worst advice to give.

the smaller hill, still isn't Everest and it still isn't having fun.

you have years of experience to know what qualifies as fun, he doesn't, he's going to flop around worrying whether what he's doing creates fun. people already go into this trying to have fun, but he won't know the little things, and that's why he made this thread. because he wants help getting to his goal, not understanding what his goal is.


IF this seems a bit long or a bit harsh, I apologize. I'm just trying to clarify my position and understand yours.

Ok, fine. You accuse others of not reading what you wrote then you insist on twisting what I wrote. I wrote "Have fun. Seriously that's the best advice I can give." Not "Just have fun". This is called the straw man fallacy. Rather than address my argument you are creating a weaker version of my argument, defeating that, and claiming to have defeated the argument. Many others had given him good advice. I saw no need to bog him down with too much detail unless he has a specific question.

How is Have fun bad advice?

Oh, and by the way if climbing the smaller hill isn't fun, give up climbing and forget about Everest.

you have years of experience to know what qualifies as fun, he doesn't, he's going to flop around worrying whether what he's doing creates fun. people already go into this trying to have fun, but he won't know the little things, and that's why he made this thread. because he wants help getting to his goal, not understanding what his goal is.

Could you clarify this sentence for me? Are you saying that he doesn't know what fun is? Really? Someone who doesn't know what fun is?

And of course he's going to flop around trying to find his own DMing style and trying to find the style that fits his group. Unless you want him to rigidly follow a narrow pattern and forget about finding his own style, that is going to happen to everyone.

Fitting your style to your group is essential. I have a friend who is basically a pin setter - he sets them up, they knock them down. Mostly kick in the door, hack, slash, and zap. He has a loyal group of players who love that style. Good for them, I don't.

I have another friend who is heavily into deep immersion storytelling, puzzles and riddles. It is not unheard of for us to go an entire session with no combat at all. I enjoy his games, though many don't.

My style is more in between. I use deep immersion storytelling, detailed backgrounds and histories, and many detailed npcs. Some like it, some don't.

When I started DMing I saw the old boxed original set on a shelf in a department store and bought it. It was just me and the stapled together pamphlets, not even books. It was fun. Help him by all means, but don't deny him the fun of failure.


Seriously BandW2 I appreciate your passion and your candor. We may in the end just have to agree to disagree and move on, but I'm trying to make myself clear, and trying to understand you more clearly.

Scarab Sages

Here's a useful quick tip:

Have one of the other players keep track of initiative for you. It'll save some headaches and keep the game more fun for you.

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