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Currently I am finishing up Runelords and am wondering if Paizo was going to bind any more Adventure Paths into a slick hardcover format? If so, what would be the next one?
Thanks!
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They need to sticky a thread for this. No offense, but you are the latest of many.
They have not announced any plans to do so. They have been extremely clear that it was a one-time deal, and that no expectations should be built for future AEs. If there is another, as many here hope, they are going to keep it well under wraps because they don't want to cannibalize their AP subscription sales.
If there is another, however, speculation centers on Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness.
Honestly if they like money they seriously consider an Anniversary edition of CotCT and SD and even LoF. Cause that was the 3.5 run of Pathfinder before the switch to straight up Pathfinder rules, and all could use some new 'juice'
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That said, while the expense will be somewhat greater, let me assure you that you'll get your money's worth with any of their Adventure Paths. Furthermore, just because they are spread out over six volumes doesn't compromise the quality - in fact, the supplemental info is generally well worth it even if you don't run the adventure. And the forums here are well-equipped to help with any issues you may have.
Would you like help choosing another Path, or would you rather pass on the six-volume APs? Do you have any specific concerns?
Ask me here, or send me a private message, if you have questions or would like assistance. ^_^
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Honestly if they like money they seriously consider an Anniversary edition of CotCT and SD and even LoF. Cause that was the 3.5 run of Pathfinder before the switch to straight up Pathfinder rules, and all could use some new 'juice'
It's not all upside for them. They had to produce the last one on top of all their other work; it was apparently extremely stressful. And after reception of the ACG, they'll be especially careful about anything that even suggests that they might get sloppy at their work.
I would love to see those products - especially Second Darkness, which needs a rewrite on top of updating. It's my favorite AP. But I'll wait for them to be ready.
If I were a betting man, I'd put it on a GenCon 2017 release of the Curse of the Crimson Throne anniversary edition hardback. That will be the 15 year anniversary of Paizo as a company and the 10 year anniversary of the Adventure Paths, and it will have been 5 full years since Runelords AE was released.
They have recently hired 3 new people to help with special projects which of course includes more than just anniversary editions but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if an anniversary edition is in the works they just aren't gonna tell us about it for another year.
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I wish they would make a sticky for this. I've been wanting to get Kingmaker forever, but the cost per book is more than a hardcover corebook from my searches.
Like 5 years after release they do a hardcover omnibus of the 6 books and call it a day. Personally I wouldn't need the supplemental materials like separate maps, cards character portfolios etc, just the books in 1, hardcover or soft isn't as important to me either.
I do hope that Paizo looks at it as an opportunity and does so, or at least flat out say no, so at least we know to look for other means.
They've pretty much already said not to get any hopes up, actually. Many times. While the six books in an AP do cost more than a single core book, the page count is also significantly larger, so that makes sense. The other problem that has been repeatedly documented, which you also state openly here, is that if they started making hardcover omnibus of every AP for cheaper than buying the AP books themselves, there is no incentive for purchasing the AP books . . . which, inevitably, destroys their subscription numbers. Thus, they begin competing with themselves, as AP subscriptions are pretty much their bread and butter, and the income they get for those subscriptions is what helps pay for all those other fun things they do (such as the opportunity to do the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition!).
In short, don't expect any hardcover omnibus to get done. If they ever do another one, it'll probably be either Crimson Throne, or one of the other unconverted APs.
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Links to Vic Wertz, Paizo's co-founder and co-owner, flat out saying no to hardcover compilations:
Personally I would mind the option of spending $79.95 - $99.95 for a complete adventure path set in hardcover. Probably would be about as thick as the PFRPG core rules though.Offering a collected volume of each AP would be encouraging people *not* to buy volumes as they come out. If there's one thing you should take away from everything I've said in this thread, it's that that's a *very* bad strategy for us.
Also, your proposed price point would pretty much ensure that nobody bought it any other way, because the six volumes cost $119.94 as separate volumes ($83.94 for subscribers). Quite seriously, if we offered a product like you describe, we'd go out of business.
Have you considered taking your six volumes to a bookbinder? That sort of thing can be done.
Seriously, guys, please stop asking for other compilations. It's not going to happen, and I don't want people who don't read carefully thinking it's likely to happen.
One of the main reasons for not doing this one is that just having the notion out there that we *might* do this for other APs is harmful. I'd really appreciate it if everybody would help squash that idea whenever and wherever it is raised.
This is a unique circumstance.
As many of you know, one of the biggest issues that lead to TSR's insolvency is the proliferation of campaign settings. When they were actively selling one or two or three campaign settings to their audience, a big chunk of their audience would buy any given book they were releasing. When they were actively selling seven or eight campaign settings, only a small fraction of the audience would buy any given release.
A similar problem exists with APs, as the typical gaming group plays only one at a time. Right now, a group looking for an AP might well rule out the 3.5 ones, and the ones that have volumes out of print, so that leaves them 7 APs to consider—or, assuming quality and appeal being similar among them, a 1 in 7 chance they'll buy the current product. If we updated the 3.5 ones, and reprinted the out-of-print volumes, the odd that they'd choose the current release drop to 1 in 12.
The simple fact is that we need to sell you what we're making more than we need to sell you what we've made, and allowing things to go out of print is therefore a necessity.
And when those out-of-print volumes go for big money on eBay, that's actually helpful in that it helps establish an upward trend for the future value of a present subscription, and underlines the fact that the best time to subscribe to our lines is "as soon as possible."
I can't like this idea enough. I can only speak for myself but frankly the AP booklets have a tendency to have the glue holding the pages simply fall apart. I would kill to have them collected into one hardbound edition to avoid this problem.
As long as they kept the release of the hardbound edition at least one year away from the last release of an AP I do not see how on Earth it would realistically affect the pathfinder subscription for APs.
If I knew I could get Hell's Rebels in hardback 18 months from now versus buying it in 6 paperbacks right now, I'd drop my subscription yesterday. My group hasn't even started Giantslayer yet.
Paizo is very savvy when it comes to maintaining customers. It's why they're still in business when so many other companies aren't.
If I knew I could get Hell's Rebels in hardback 18 months from now versus buying it in 6 paperbacks right now, I'd drop my subscription yesterday. My group hasn't even started Giantslayer yet.
Paizo is very savvy when it comes to maintaining customers. It's why they're still in business when so many other companies aren't.
I don't know if your personal experience would translate into a demographic large enough to actually worry Paizo. Book publishers routinely release hardbacks first then wait a year (or more) for the softback just to force people into buying the more expensive option first.
Paizo is working it backwards. Which is fine but there should be an option to buy one hardback edition as opposed to booklets that literally fall apart during one campaign.
From a mathematical perspective it wouldn't actually harm the AP line subscription or sale.
Here's why,
Anniversary compilations would happen at most once every five years.
With each year two new APs are released.
So within five years 10 APs would be produced.
and since the Anniversary editions are special they would start with the earliest and most popular (also most needed of alterations and rewrites).
This means that anyone who would only by the hardcover compilations would never catch up with the AP Subcribers and miss many newer and fun APs.
I think they could do it, but I agree with their remarks,
The Hardcovers take a lot of effort and manpower to create.
They could only do APs that we're going out of print
There must be a great demand or interest in the AP.
So I would love to see another hardcover compilation, but I understand the logistics of it aren't always the best.
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If I knew I could get Hell's Rebels in hardback 18 months from now versus buying it in 6 paperbacks right now, I'd drop my subscription yesterday. My group hasn't even started Giantslayer yet.
Paizo is very savvy when it comes to maintaining customers. It's why they're still in business when so many other companies aren't.
I don't know if your personal experience would translate into a demographic large enough to actually worry Paizo. Book publishers routinely release hardbacks first then wait a year (or more) for the softback just to force people into buying the more expensive option first.
Paizo is working it backwards. Which is fine but there should be an option to buy one hardback edition as opposed to booklets that literally fall apart during one campaign.
The subscription model is an absolutely key part of Paizo's business structure - it's been repeatedly described over the years as what keeps the lights on and pays the wages. The risk/reward calculation when you're dealing with something as central as that is more than just "would we gain more money than we'd lose by trying this" - if they're a little bit wrong, they go out of business (or need to find a big injection of capital).
Granted that information could well be out-of-date by now as I'm referencing conversations from several years ago. The diversification of product lines and general growth of the company probably makes things less fragile than they were when those comments were made, I suspect. Nonetheless, the stakes are also higher - there's more employees and just generally more at risk.
With regard to the fragility of the APs. I also used to have this problem until I began 'pre-folding' the crease near the spine of the AP. I can't really work out why it helps, but it definitely does - it sort of makes a 'brace' for the rest of the book and has considerably reduced the incidence of pages breaking free of the glue and falling out.
If I knew I could get Hell's Rebels in hardback 18 months from now versus buying it in 6 paperbacks right now, I'd drop my subscription yesterday. My group hasn't even started Giantslayer yet.
Paizo is very savvy when it comes to maintaining customers. It's why they're still in business when so many other companies aren't.
I don't know if your personal experience would translate into a demographic large enough to actually worry Paizo. Book publishers routinely release hardbacks first then wait a year (or more) for the softback just to force people into buying the more expensive option first.
Paizo is working it backwards. Which is fine but there should be an option to buy one hardback edition as opposed to booklets that literally fall apart during one campaign.
The subscription model is an absolutely key part of Paizo's business structure - it's been repeatedly described over the years as what keeps the lights on and pays the wages. The risk/reward calculation when you're dealing with something as central as that is more than just "would we gain more money than we'd lose by trying this" - if they're a little bit wrong, they go out of business (or need to find a big injection of capital).
Granted that information could well be out-of-date by now as I'm referencing conversations from several years ago. The diversification of product lines and general growth of the company probably makes things less fragile than they were when those comments were made, I suspect. Nonetheless, the stakes are also higher - there's more employees and just generally more at risk.
With regard to the fragility of the APs. I also used to have this problem until I began 'pre-folding' the crease near the spine of the AP. I can't really work out why it helps, but it definitely does - it sort of makes a 'brace' for the rest of the book and has considerably reduced the incidence of pages breaking free of the glue and falling out.
Is there any way you could better describe this action you take? Or post a video of it? All of my booklets simply break and I am extremely careful with all printed materials. No other book from comic books to hardcovers in my possession ever have this problem, just the Paizo AP booklets.
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Posting anything other than a messageboard post is beyond my technical abilities... :p
If you look at an AP (or any of Paizo's 64 page sourcebooks) you'll see that there's a predefined crease on the front and back cover about 1/4 of an inch in from the spine.
I lay the book flat on its back and then carefully fold along the front cover's crease, bending the cover open a full 180 degrees and running my finger along it to make it hold. Then I flip the book to its' front and repeat the process along the back cover's crease.
I generally lay my books open flat on the table and the two covers now act as a kind of 'brace' of the other pages - they open out further than the rest of the book if you lay it open on a flat surface and the pages don't split apart as far (although I guess you could still force them apart if you tried).
Although it works for me, I've heard mixed reports from this process - some have said it makes no difference and that they still have pages falling out. However, once I started doing this I've only had the problem repeat once (and I have close to a dozen older books which have lost individual pages and/or whole 'packets' of pages).
Thank you for sharing that tip. My problem is the "packets" of pages as you describe. I will have 8-12 pages in a clump separate from the glue binding and simply detach. I honestly can't count how many of them have had this happen.
Give it a go with the next one. Fingers crossed it works for you too. As I said though, not everyone has had success with it.
I'd actually just love seeing reprints of the volumes that are sorely OOP. I'd much rather give Paizo 20-30 bucks than give some dude on the Internets 60-80.
I know there's a lot of math and business involved with that, too, and I've read a post somewhere about someone-or-another-in-charge's thinking there's a benefit of mystique and so on), but, hey. This is about MY needs, heh.
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It's been covered pretty well in earlier posts, but also read the FAQ on the Runelords Anniversary Edition.