Same for me. It seems fun, but also kind of complicated.
With the gestalt, I think that people should be able to choose between at least two NPC classes. For example, if you have full bab and fort saves from your class, gestalting into warrior doesn't give you any benefit.
Okay point on the npc class, now let me understand this, the eighteen is fpr for one of the given stats, in which case I withdrawal my objection.
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With the gestalt, I think that people should be able to choose between at least two NPC classes. For example, if you have full bab and fort saves from your class, gestalting into warrior doesn't give you any benefit.
Everyone can pick adept if their VMC is a caster, but I'll probably include aristocrat on all bar the lancer.
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Okay point on the npc class, now let me understand this, the eighteen is fpr for one of the given stats, in which case I withdrawal my objection.
Correct, the leader is 18 str or cha, and the lancer is 18 str or dex for example.
So if I wanted to submit a leader dwarf, I could choose strength, and the use the point buy to get DEX: 14 CON: 18 INT: 12 WIS: 14 CHA: 9 for 18/14/18/12/14/9 with racial included, not a bad front liner.
Very true.
I like the idea, but I'm personally not much a fan of the variant multi-classing. You can't actually choose any of the new ACG classes, which puts a damper on certain builds. And while the NPC class could be interesting, it's often rather difficult for player classes to actually EARN anything from gestalting an NPC class. You more or less have to pick an NPC class that varies wildly from your base class to get anything, which makes character concepts a pain.
I might suggest using a rule a friend of mine once used; you allow a player to "upgrade" a single aspect of their class. For instance, a cleric could give themselves Full BAB, or two more skill points, or a good Reflex save. Or they could upgrade their hit die by one! I'd suggest that, along with background skills and a normal gestalt to achieve more or less the same end result with less book-keeping and hassle for the players themselves.
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I like the idea, but I'm personally not much a fan of the variant multi-classing. You can't actually choose any of the new ACG classes, which puts a damper on certain builds. And while the NPC class could be interesting, it's often rather difficult for player classes to actually EARN anything from gestalting an NPC class. You more or less have to pick an NPC class that varies wildly from your base class to get anything, which makes character concepts a pain.
I might suggest using a rule a friend of mine once used; you allow a player to "upgrade" a single aspect of their class. For instance, a cleric could give themselves Full BAB, or two more skill points, or a good Reflex save. Or they could upgrade their hit die by one! I'd suggest that, along with background skills and a normal gestalt to achieve more or less the same end result with less book-keeping and hassle for the players themselves.
Gestalting with Warrior is Full BaB with d10 hit dice and a good fort save, Gestalting with Expert is 3/4 BaB with d8 hit dice, 6 skill points and a good will save. Aristocrat is 3/4 BaB with d8 hit dice, 4 skill points and a good will save (either expert or Aristocrat should be Ref saves...). Finally, Adept is some spell casting and a good will save.
Gestalting with an NPC class is upgrading an aspect of their class, or two, or three, a Fighter/Expert is awesome, as is a Wizard/Warrior.
As an aside, the reason I forgot Aristocrat above is because compared to Expert it's just worse, mechanically speaking.
Let me double check something, now, our background skills points are the skill ranks from our npc class correct? What if once done with our background skills that makes sense we still hhave background skill points?
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Let's go back to the dwarven leader example above, as a leader he has the option of taking warrior or aristocrat for his gestalt, normally as a front liner character, he would want his main class to have full BAB, however, the dwarf decides that war priest sounds more fun considering his options, now warrior looks more rewarding as they have full BAB and d10 hit dice still while having all the bonuses of war priest. For their variant multiclass, they pick barbarian, boom a very flavorful priest of Cayden Cailean is born.
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Let me double check something, now, our background skills points are the skill ranks from our npc class correct? What if once done with our background skills that makes sense we still hhave background skill points?
If you choose expert you would have 6 background skills, warrior and adept are still 2, aristocrat is 4. Aristocrat and expert would not grant additional adventurer skills however, since they are not your adventurer class.
Think of it as having an adventurer (PC) class, and a background (NPC) class, the PC gives adventurer skill points and NPC gives background skill points. Bonus Int only adds to adventurer points.
This means a rogue/expert would have a lot of skills, however rogue gains very little from expert compared to warrior.
okay you keep saying skills, I'm talking about skill ranks.
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okay you keep saying skills, I'm talking about skill ranks.
correct, I mean ranks.
If, after you are done picking background skills to put ranks in you still have ranks left to spend, (there's a lot of options, and this should only be a problem for experts) you could spend 2 points to put 1 rank into an adventuring skill.
Do we have to take the VMC or can we decide to take a feat in its place?
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Do we have to take the VMC or can we decide to take a feat in its place?
VMC doesn't come online until third level, so an additional feat at first would be the better option for basically the first book of whatever AP. I'll consider it, after all I'm not recruiting yet, this is still just an interest check.
I'M not clear on how submitting a character works for this. Do I need to have a group already?
It's not recruitment.
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Hi Dylos!
How have you been?
You idea seems nice, but I would change:
- No Gestalt... I don't like it. Maybe a level or two in NPC clasees, in any case, on top of the "normal" PC Classes. Or drop that altogether.
- I am running a Module when I used the "Make your own Traits" you mention at the beginning. And it's working great! The Module is a standard one, bt the traits let me "build" the team with the ideas and plot points I had in Mind. And about what you say about Homebrew / Standard AP, I plan to continue with those players and characters on "The Curse of the Crimson Throne".
You can see the traits I made here: Module traits for Murder's Mark
And the module "in action" here: Corsario's Murder's Mark
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I've been good, recovering from a car accident earlier this year, but good mostly.
The point of Gestalt here is to hopefully lead the characters into taking a prestige class on their NPC side in order to further their connections, as a prestige class is typically a bad choice over going pure in a standard class, but it's beneficial over a NPC class. Though the NPC gestalt might be complicating things too much.
I have previously considered doing something homebrew leading into an AP, I could use that to define the traits I suppose rather then letting the AP define the traits. My previous plan was to have players make a 10 point character with an NPC class and the young template, then they would have a harrowing done at the end of my homebrew module, that harrowing would assign further stat points and then they would be allowed to change into a PC class. This is also rather complicated however.
I think I might just need to think about this further.
My previous plan was to have players make a 10 point character with an NPC class and the young template, then they would have a harrowing done at the end of my homebrew module, that harrowing would assign further stat points and then they would be allowed to change into a PC class. This is also rather complicated however.
I think I might just need to think about this further.
This, I fully support this and want it so much.
There's a NEW vigilante class? Not the prestige class?
I has already been but thanks Dylos!
It's pretty neat.