Yes, it does.
Prepare to get smacked by you GM if you try it.
fast healing isn't magical healing or healing by resting so neither work on it.
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Fast healing from a SU source - like animal focus - is still magical, barring an FAQ or errata to the contrary.
fast healing isn't magical healing or healing by resting so neither work on it.
Vermin Focus is a supernatural ability so it is magical healing.
Prepare to get smacked by you GM if you try it.
Extra healing available to single character is nice, but it is nothing big enough to warrant such behavior unless the GM is panicky or rigid and unable to adjust.
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Healing gained by resting is through resting for 8 hours (or 2 with some specials, like Ring of Sustenance). No other non-magical source is boosted by the feat.
Fast Healing is, by definition, non-magical. It can be seen listed as (Ex) in the bestiaries. As such, Fast Healer does not boost it. Likewise with Sandpoint Faithful.
Fast Healing is not magical even if magic grants the property because the property never changes type. The only exception is if the property is explicitly retyped, which I don't believe has happened yet in the rules. As another example of this: If you shapeshift into a creature with a new appendage that is a natural attack, that attack is not magical just because it was granted by a spell. It is still non-magical and will not bypass /magic DR unless you have a different effect to make it magical.
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A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.Bold Mine.
With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.
If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
So, the only reference in Fast Healing is that it works like natural healing. Natural healing is defined as resting, no other entry describes any other means of natural healing. Fast Healer triggers on resting or magical healing. So, Fast Healing = Natural healing = Resting.
It works perfectly by the rules, only people who think HP attrition is the GM's job think otherwise.
I think otherwise because it seems to go against the intention of any of the rules you're quoting, and the connection made is questionable even in RAW. Fast healing is not resting because you're not resting. Resting is natural healing. Fast healing is natural healing. This does not mean fast healing is resting.
I say this both as player and DM. As a player I would feel like I am cheating if I tried to use this as a valid combo. As a DM I would feel like the player is trying to manipulate the rules into doing things that they aren't meant to do, which is a red flag for me.
That's not to say I'm opposed to players having fast healing, high HP, etc. I just think it should be done honestly, through home brewing if necessary.
OP: After you collect those abilities, change to a scarred witch! Nothing like your fast healing going up with your casting stat! ;)
Fast Healing is, by definition, non-magical. It can be seen listed as (Ex) in the bestiaries. As such, Fast Healer does not boost it. Likewise with Sandpoint Faithful.
Fast Healing is not magical even if magic grants the property because the property never changes type.
Could you present rule forbidding ever changing the type of ability? Because eidolon's evolution fast healing ability is supernatural not extraordinary.
Anyway d20 is mechanic based on exceptions: a specific rule trumps general rule, and the designers can add specific rules as needed. If designer decides to make a creature with supernatural fast healing instead of extraordinary then the specific rules of the creature trump the general rules covered in the universal monster rules.
The only exception is if the property is explicitly retyped, which I don't believe has happened yet in the rules.
The ability in this case is verminous hunter's vermin focus which is explicitly supernatural. At the moment you are telling us to ignore the explicitly stated type of the ability and switch to different type.
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Fast Healing is, by definition, non-magical. It can be seen listed as (Ex) in the bestiaries. As such, Fast Healer does not boost it. Likewise with Sandpoint Faithful.
Fast Healing is not magical even if magic grants the property because the property never changes type.
Could you present rule forbidding ever changing the type of ability? Because eidolon's evolution fast healing ability is supernatural not extraordinary.
Anyway d20 is mechanic based on exceptions: a specific rule trumps general rule, and the designers can add specific rules as needed. If designer decides to make a creature with supernatural fast healing instead of extraordinary then the specific rules of the creature trump the general rules covered in the universal monster rules.
The only exception is if the property is explicitly retyped, which I don't believe has happened yet in the rules.The ability in this case is verminous hunter's vermin focus which is explicitly supernatural. At the moment you are telling us to ignore the explicitly stated type of the ability and switch to different type.
It is not a supernatural fast healing. It is a supernatural ability that grants fast healing. Same as with Infernal Healing being a spell that grants fast healing. Same as with Mutagen (Su) granting claws, but those claws not being magical in any way. Same as a lot of magical things that grant abilities that are treated as non-magical for all purposes other than how they came to exist. (How they came to exist being important due to anti-magic and dispel magic.)
The Eidolon thing would probably be an exception because the entire ability is fast healing, and is called "Fast Healing (Su)".
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Nothing to do with being OP, I just feel you're reading the rules the way you want because it gives the result you want, which is why it feels like cheating to me.
As Covert Operator says, my point of view is that Fast Healing is natural healing, Resting is natural healing, but fast healing != resting and therefor Fast Healer doesn't help under that definition.
On the magical side, magic that grants an Ex property still creates a property that is treated as non-magical for all purposes other than how it came to be. This includes both magic items and spells. Just because that natural attack came from a spell doesn't mean it automatically bypasses DR/magic, for example.
If the devs come out and say "Nope. Ability type changing is meant to be implicit." then I will change my tune. Until then, we have nothing to indicate that the type should be different.
At the end of the day I admit that the rules aren't clear enough to say with 100% certainty which way is RAW, but I do feel that treating the fast healing as magical is more of a stretch.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sasp?Inquisitor-Healing-Judgement-Fast-Healer
Same discussion, older thread.
Same discussion, older thread.
Link fixed
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A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.Bold Mine.
With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.
If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
So, the only reference in Fast Healing is that it works like natural healing. Natural healing is defined as resting, no other entry describes any other means of natural healing. Fast Healer triggers on resting or magical healing. So, Fast Healing = Natural healing = Resting.
It works perfectly by the rules, only people who think HP attrition is the GM's job think otherwise.
What you bolded is not relevant for the feat.
The feat say:Fast Healer feat:
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).
The feat check if you have rested. If you haven't rested for 8 hours you don't get the extra hp. It don't intercat at all with fast healing.
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StabbityDoom, please find for me another description of Natural Healing in the book.
Anywhere.
The only place in the Entire Paizo core line, where Natural Healing is defined, is the one I quoted.
So, if Fast Healing also references Natural Healing, then it refers to HP gotten back as if by resting.
There is no place where resting regains HP. There is only the place where Natural Healing triggers when resting, which grants you HP equal to your character level. That's it.
For those arguing that it's a SU ability that grants it, so qualifies as magical, it's unnecessary. It already counts as the only possible method of getting healing by resting, being magical has no bearing either way.
If you think it's OP, then ban it. But, per the rules, and this is a rules question, it works.
Rest
You can use downtime to rest and recover. It is assumed that you spend 8 hours resting at night, which allows you to recover 1 hp per level per day and 1 point of ability damage for each affected ability score. If you spend a full day of downtime resting in bed, you recover another 1 hp per level per day and another 1 point of ability damage for each affected ability score.
Natural Healing: With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
However you rule it, still it's not fast healing 4 or whatever because bonuses are only applied once per effect.
So you'd get the bonus from fast healer and the sandpoint trait on the first tick only. You COULD change your focus 1/round as a swift action and get the bonus every other round (and no healing for the remainder rounds).
Same with infernal healing, for example. The first tick is increased not every tick. Likewise only one missile from magic missile gets boosted with a bonus to damage not all. Or only the initial damage from acid arrow, not the on-going damage.
If you want lots of passive healing be a barbarian with the celestial totem lesser, fast healer and the sandpoint trait, then ask one party member to be a life oracle with the life link power.
Every round you are more than 5 below your maximum you are healed for 5 + 1 +1/2con mod + level od the oracle.
Say you're level 5 and you have a raging con mod of +6 that would be:
5 (base) + 1 (trait) +3 (1/2 con mod) +5 (oracle level)= 14 points healed for 5 points transferred to the oracle.
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Fast Healing is non magical. In the ability descriptor "Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing."
But what if I got it from a magical source like Infernal Healing? The spell is magic and can be dispelled, but the healing is rapid natural healing rather than magical and effects undead and living alike.
What if I got the fast healing from a supernatural source, like Hunter Focus?
"Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells."
There you have it. Fast Healing is gained from a magical source that can't be dispelled, but won't function in anti-magic. This still doesn't change the effect that Fast Healing is non-magical in nature, only that its gained from a magical source.
So,
Can Hunters Focus provide Fast Healing through the Vermin Hunter Worm companion? Yes.
Does Sand Point Faithful stack? No. Fast Healing is non-magical in nature by definition.
Does Fast Healer Feat stack with Hunters Focus? No. To activate the feat you need to rest (you aren't resting, you are recovering quickly), or you need to receive magical healing which Fast Healing is not.
Are these abilities useless? Nope. Gaining another +3 raises the effectiveness of a 1st level CLW by 40% or so, you just don't get fast healing 4 for a trait and a couple feats.
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Fast Healer: Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).
Wouldn't it have been easier to say any healing? It seems like there are better options aplenty...
magical or non-magical healing
any healing
recover any hitpoints
They choose "magical healing" and "resting"... almost as if they wanted to exclude this combination, because Fast Healing / Regeneration is really is the only thing left out by this wording.
Meh, fast healing is pretty underpowered and overvalued. If someone spends thirty percent of their feats on healing that has very little impact on combat, well good for them.
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I looked into this a long time ago and came to the conclusions above that fast healing isn't 'magical healing'. Being granted fast healing as part of magic still doesn't make it 'magic healing'.
However, concerning 'resting' I'm torn between 'Fast Healer' only applying to sleep rest healing or any healing that comes from resting (which fast healing apparently is).
"Fast Healer
You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1)."
"Fast Healer, Feat"
"Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately."
"Fast Healing, source"
"Healing
After taking damage, you can recover hit points through natural healing or through magical healing. In any case, you can't regain hit points past your full normal hit point total.
Natural Healing: With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.
If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
Magical Healing: Various abilities and spells can restore hit points."
"Natural Healing, source"
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It's entirely possible that the original rules text said natural healing (such as resting), then was changed to simply say resting to avoid interaction with regeneration and fast healing, leaving the flavor text orphaned. Probably due to fears of it being OP, unfounded though those fears may be*.
But that's all speculation. The rules say resting and magical healing, nothing more. Easily worth a house rule, though.
*Worst case scenario, gain fast healing 1 and be super con focused to effectively gain fast healing 5 or 6. The diff is practically nothing in practical terms. By the time you could even pump it that high your HP isn't your weakness anyway.
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A.
So the current take on 'Fast Healing' in combination with the feat 'fast healer' is that;
1/round Fast Healing = 1 + 1/2 Con Mod (HP healed in a round)
Another take on it is concerning 'when' the Fast Healing would occur from natural Healing.
8 hours rest = HD hp healed.
(With Fast Healer Feat)
8 hours rest = HD +1/2 Con Mod (/day)
B.
1/round Fast Healing = 14400hp heal / day.
(with Fast Healer Feat)
1/round Fast Healing = 14400 + 1/2 Con Mod (/day)
A.
So the current take on 'Fast Healing' in combination with the feat 'fast healer' is that;
1/round Fast Healing = 1 + 1/2 Con Mod (HP healed in a round)Another take on it is concerning 'when' the Fast Healing would occur from natural Healing.
8 hours rest = HD hp healed.
(With Fast Healer Feat)
8 hours rest = HD +1/2 Con Mod (/day)B.
1/round Fast Healing = 14400hp heal / day.
(with Fast Healer Feat)
1/round Fast Healing = 14400 + 1/2 Con Mod (/day)
? Im not sure how you could say that. Are you constantly hurting yourself to keep that going for some reason? How is this relevant to game balance when this will literally never happen?
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Diego, that is the exact part that I quoted above.
Fast Healing is treated as Natural Healing, except that it happens every round, and instead of being Character level, it is whatever the entry lists for an amount.
The only entry that mentions natural healing, is that it is the HP gained from rest.
Fast Healer procs from resting, and Fast Healing is Natural Healing, which is ONLY ever defined as HP gained from resting, only faster.
So, if we take the Fast Healer Feat, and substitute the entry for Natural Healing in place of the words Natural Healing in the text of the feat, we get:
Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like (With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night. If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately."Fast Healer works on Natural Healing (Resting) and Magical Healing. Fast Healing is the same as Natural Healing (Resting) except that it happens each round instead of 8 hours, and gives a set number of HP instead of Character Level.
So, by the rules, it works.
Now, I have no doubt that enough people screaming ZOMG OP! will get the devs to rule it the other way, especially with the normal skewed way of phrasing questions that normally get FAQ'd.
You can substitute word as you wish, but what you get is nto what the feat say.
The first requirement is very simple:
"Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting"
You aren't fulfilling that clause? You don't recover hit point.
It never ask for "natural healing" in the benefit part.
If you non fulfill the benefit requirement you don't get the benefit. Very simple.
Actually, no, that is is a vocal minority opinion.A.
So the current take on 'Fast Healing' in combination with the feat 'fast healer' is that;
1/round Fast Healing = 1 + 1/2 Con Mod (HP healed in a round)
There's around 5 in this thread that seem to think that so for this thread it doesn't seem to be a minority. For the game at large, I couldn't say but neither can you.
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If you want a quality answer, never ask the masses, read a book or ask someone who actually can provide a valid source to support their claims.
I think I did a pretty good job of providing support for my claim that the feat 'fast healer' does apply to 'fast healing'.
The argument I made in the earlier post implied that "Fast Healer" req resting, resting is 'natural healing' and 'fast healing' works like natural healing.
Fast healing (=natural healing) ->
Fast healer (req resting (=natural healing (=fast healing)))
In math, algebra uses the same method to substitute the same 'values' with different 'names'.
c=3
a=c
b=c
1.) So what is 2 • b ?
2.) And is a = b ?
1.) 2 • b = 2 • 3 = 6
2.) a = b ?, a = 3, b = 3, a=b => 3=3, True.
To make this clearer, The only subcategory under 'natural healing' is resting (by all knowledge I've found and I'm thorough), so saying natural healing mustn't mean resting would just be a method of closing ones eyes to what is written.
As a result, 'Fast Healer' works with 'Fast healing', which is great out of combat and decent to good during combat.
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btw. Sorry if my methodology comes off as blunt or hard.