Who knows who the Decemvirite Are?


Pathfinder Society

3/5

Not that I expect a cannonical answer, but here's some stuff that's been seeming strange to me in the lore...

One problem I've had for a while is the idea of "secret leaders". Someone's identity can be secret from me, someone can have authority over me, but its hard to see how someone can be *both*.

Lets say a member of the Decemvirite wants my Pathfinder to bring him a soy latte. How am I supposed to know this guy asking for a latte is one of the Ten? The masks aren't well enough known to be identifiable, even someone in a really big really weird mask could be any joker with some paper mache.

Maybe he tells my faction head to tell me to go get him a latte? Ok, but the same problem applies. My faction head needs to know who the decemvirite are. *But*, we've got cannon that faction heads don't know who the Ten are.

Spoiler:
Torch was a faction head and had to go to great lengths to find out who they were.
.

Maybe faction heads aren't trusted (maybe Amenophus is assumed to be loyal to Osirion before the Society?). Do the Venture Captains know? Trouble is there are tons of venture captains all over the place. What stops anyone interested from scooping some lone low level VC off the street and emptying him of information?

Maybe only some VC's know? The VC's high enough level and protected enough to be trusted to keep the secret? If that's the case are their tiers of VC's? Captain Musello out by himself in a tiny little lodge gets orders from Captain Valsin in a bunker in Absalom who gets them from the Decemvirate? I've never gotten the impression there were hierarchies of VCs.

Maybe the Decemvirate all died in a skiing accident years ago and the VCs just haven't told anyone. How would anyone know?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

You must be like me.

Ally yourself to the power of Asmodeus. He will give you the strength to see through the petty disguises those weaklings use to keep themselves in the shadows. And weaklings they are. They had to call upon this awe-inspiring cleric of Asmodeus you see before you to save themselves from a terrible threat.

I learned many of their identities in that incident. And my minions and proteges search out more for me even now.

Scarab Sages

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The Shadow (Lodge) Knows....

4/5

14 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh, I know!

3/5

A likely story, you're probably just a cosplayer in a mask!

Scarab Sages

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But...that's exactly what the Decemvirate ARE....

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Massachusetts—North Shore

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The Decemvirate Are . . .

Ta Da:
Drendle Dreng sitting in a room with a Mask and 9 Mirrors

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am honestly starting to think that the Decemvirate really are...

Spoiler:
a bunch of Rovagug clerics who founded the society to find the key to release Rovagug


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Well the Razmiran Priests wear masks and so do The Decemvirate. Coincidence, you decided.

1/5

Canonically, the Venture Captains report directly to the Decemvirate. That doesn't mean that Venture Captains know who is under the mask but I'm pretty sure when you see a group of ten people who combined probably radiate a greater aura of magic than even Razmir does... then you know that the people giving you orders are legitimate.

In all seriousness, I'm pretty sure that the Venture Captains recognize the actual vestments of the Decemvirate. If I remember correctly, their helms are literal artifacts in their own right so it is quite likely that there are multiple forms of magic, both divine and arcane in play protecting their identities in all instances. If PCs can come up with amazing things with a few months of planning and a level 12 Wizard, can you imagine what ten of some of the most powerful people in Golarion could pull off? Lets just say that we should be glad they are relatively Neutral.

EDIT: So off the top of my head, the only person I could think of who knows their actual IDENTITIES... is Torch.

EDIT 2: Just to give you a sense of what you are dealing with, only taking into account the helm itself. And remember, the note: each helm is individualized and likely has even more magic on top of this. Add into that all the OTHER gear the Decemvirate has... and you could probably understand why they aren't afraid that so many VCs report directly to them.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
Lets say a member of the Decemvirite wants my Pathfinder to bring him a soy latte. How am I supposed to know this guy asking for a latte is one of the Ten? The masks aren't well enough known to be identifiable, even someone in a really big really weird mask could be any joker with some paper mache.

Simple. You don't have to know. The Decemvirate are also in known positions of power, like titled nobility or Venture Captainships or something else.

1/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
Lets say a member of the Decemvirite wants my Pathfinder to bring him a soy latte. How am I supposed to know this guy asking for a latte is one of the Ten? The masks aren't well enough known to be identifiable, even someone in a really big really weird mask could be any joker with some paper mache.
Simple. The Decemvirate are also in known positions of power, like titled nobility or Venture Captainships.

Actually that would be brilliant. The Decemvirate disguising themselves as lower level Venture Captains, or even faction leaders. "Surprise! Zarta isn't REALLY an 8th level bard/4th level aristocrat. She is really a gestalt level 20 bard/sorcerer with a maxed out mythic ranks!"

I also think there is a case to be made about them secretly moonlighting as the Patrons of the Aspis Consortium.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Lucas Servideo wrote:
The Decemvirate Are . . . ** spoiler omitted **

It... It all makes sense now!

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

9 people marked this as a favorite.

A Council of Chromatic Dragons.

Hoarding artifacts and disallowing Dragonhide tipped me off.

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:

A Council of Chromatic Dragons.

Hoarding artifacts and disallowing Dragonhide tipped me off.

I would be okay with working for that.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Did somebody call me?

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

The Decemvirate wrote:
Oh, I know!

As do I... Eyes the cat in the corner, staring at everyone and no one at the same time.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Not that I expect a cannonical answer, but here's some stuff that's been seeming strange to me in the lore...

One problem I've had for a while is the idea of "secret leaders". Someone's identity can be secret from me, someone can have authority over me, but its hard to see how someone can be *both*.

Aw, buddy. I am so sorry to be the one to break it to you. Open your mind, sheeple!


Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Not that I expect a canonical answer, but here's some stuff that's been seeming strange to me in the lore...

Aroden? (faked being a deity and his own "death" as well).

Rovagug? (deep cover agent pretending to be evil. It's always the one you least suspect).
Miss Feathers?
Mike Brock?
Shorafa Pamodae?
The ten core iconic characters?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Alexander S. Modeus wrote:
EDIT: So off the top of my head, the only person I could think of who knows <knew> their actual IDENTITIES... is Torch.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

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I still think its two halflings in a longcoat.

Statistically at least one of them has to be.

4/5 *

I note that at one point there were ten *known* leaders in the Society, issuing orders about fetching them teapots and so on. Coincidental number. Then there was some fuss, and the number was whittled down some, right about the time when Torch managed to get away with their identities.

I would also guess that the Ten have ways of magically making their wills known to their V-C representatives. You know, like voices in Drandle Dreng's head or something.

...

Wait a minute...

Grand Lodge

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The Veiled Masters probably know who the Decemverate are, if not actually composing their membership.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ahh... I see plenty of sales opportunities for tin foil hats in this thread.

Grand Lodge

Scenario writers reap what they sow.

Grand Lodge 4/5

DM Beckett wrote:
Alexander S. Modeus wrote:
EDIT: So off the top of my head, the only person I could think of who knows <knew> their actual IDENTITIES... is Torch.

Well, there are some other people who either knew who some of the Decimvirate are/were, but most of them are either dead, or Venture Captains, now.

Venture Captain (at large) Kinevon, ship captain, Eagle Knight Captain, whose protege is an Undine.

5/5

Noone Needs to know the identities of the Decimvirate:

Ever wondered what the secret Pathfinder Handshake is?

Ever actually looked into your Wayfinder? It contains ten values of y, where y = gᵡ mod p. Each of the Ten have knowledge of x.

Coming soon: 7-12: A deluge of counterfeit wayfinders with the wrong values in them flood Absalom and beyond.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof

Shadow Lodge 4/5

kinevon wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Alexander S. Modeus wrote:
EDIT: So off the top of my head, the only person I could think of who knows <knew> their actual IDENTITIES... is Torch.

Well, there are some other people who either knew who some of the Decimvirate are/were, but most of them are either dead, or Venture Captains, now.

Venture Captain (at large) Kinevon, ship captain, Eagle Knight Captain, whose protege is an Undine.

Sorry, I was joking. I switched it from "knows" to "knew' to imply GMT had already killed them.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

A Council of Chromatic Dragons.

Hoarding artifacts and disallowing Dragonhide tipped me off.

This is the best answer I've heard yet. I really want this to be canon.

Horizon Hunters 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis

1 person marked this as a favorite.
James McTeague wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

A Council of Chromatic Dragons.

Hoarding artifacts and disallowing Dragonhide tipped me off.

This is the best answer I've heard yet. I really want this to be canon.

+1

Grand Lodge 5/5

I dont find the idea of people posing as the Decemvirate for personal gain to be a viable idea. That'd be like some power impersonating Batman and talking to Jim Gordon. It wouldnt end well for the poser. :P

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

And it doesn't end well, for quite a few people =P

Sovereign Court

The Decemvirate are really a group of 32 random beggars but marketing polled better for the name decemvirate so they used it instead.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Wounded Wisp and beggars:
Does that mean Dreng is one of the Ten? Because I saw him out begging the other day. He swore he was "undercover," but I'm not so sure. If he's homeless, it would explain why he's always turning up in Pathfinder's houses in the middle of the night...

Sovereign Court

I have my suspicions on double D.

*

Warwick Cailean wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Things that make you go hmmm... :)

Grand Lodge 5/5

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He wasn't out during the day, that was a bum he was mind controlling for his own purposes... We all know the real Drange can't be out in daylight.....

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It could also be that this Decemvirate thingy is just a ruse. Keep a list of 10 people you don't like and get the Society's enemies to "take out the trash" every few years. King Double D is a wily one.

Lantern Lodge 3/5 5/5

I believe it was concluded some time ago that as of season 6, 5 of the Decemvirate are really 5 of the 72 alternate identities of the man whose 6th alternate identity is Ven Levorox. 3 of the others are simulacra of the same man and were both created by and under the control of the same man. Of the last 2, one is his wife and the other is his sister (both whom are under regularly-recast dominate person spells). One of the latter has 14 alternate identities, and one of those is "The Spider". It is speculated that the wife and sister are also alternate identities of the same person.

The same man's 47th, 51st and 69th alternate identities are also Patrons of the Aspis Consortium, and the Season 7 PFS metaplot is really a cover for an elaborate ploy by him to replace more of the Patrons with his own alternate identities or dominated members of his household.

Drendle Dreng is really this man's brother and was once aware of all these things but was too intimidated to do anything about it. Drendle regularly drugged himself to cope or forget these things and over the years so addled his own brain with drugs that he can no longer differentiate the above information from his other varied hallucinations. The man sometimes known as Grandmaster Torch thus does not see him as a threat and lets him live for amusement's sake.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hank the Bugbear wrote:

I believe it was concluded some time ago that as of season 6, 5 of the Decemvirate are really 5 of the 72 alternate identities of the man whose 6th alternate identity is Ven Levorox. 3 of the others are simulacra of the same man and were both created by and under the control of the same man. Of the last 2, one is his wife and the other is his sister (both whom are under regularly-recast dominate person spells). One of the latter has 14 alternate identities, and one of those is "The Spider". It is speculated that the wife and sister are also alternate identities of the same person.

The same man's 47th, 51st and 69th alternate identities are also Patrons of the Aspis Consortium, and the Season 7 PFS metaplot is really a cover for an elaborate ploy by him to replace more of the Patrons with his own alternate identities or dominated members of his household.

Drendle Dreng is really this man's brother and was once aware of all these things but was too intimidated to do anything about it. Drendle regularly drugged himself to cope or forget these things and over the years so addled his own brain with drugs that he can no longer differentiate the above information from his other varied hallucinations. The man sometimes known as Grandmaster Torch thus does not see him as a threat and lets him live for amusement's sake.

That's right up there with the theory of Wonder Woman's people being a creation of Ancient Kryptonians.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/55/55/5

Hank the Bugbear wrote:

I believe it was concluded some time ago that as of season 6, 5 of the Decemvirate are really 5 of the 72 alternate identities of the man whose 6th alternate identity is Ven Levorox. 3 of the others are simulacra of the same man and were both created by and under the control of the same man. Of the last 2, one is his wife and the other is his sister (both whom are under regularly-recast dominate person spells). One of the latter has 14 alternate identities, and one of those is "The Spider". It is speculated that the wife and sister are also alternate identities of the same person.

The same man's 47th, 51st and 69th alternate identities are also Patrons of the Aspis Consortium, and the Season 7 PFS metaplot is really a cover for an elaborate ploy by him to replace more of the Patrons with his own alternate identities or dominated members of his household.

Drendle Dreng is really this man's brother and was once aware of all these things but was too intimidated to do anything about it. Drendle regularly drugged himself to cope or forget these things and over the years so addled his own brain with drugs that he can no longer differentiate the above information from his other varied hallucinations. The man sometimes known as Grandmaster Torch thus does not see him as a threat and lets him live for amusement's sake.

*blinks*

Ok, when the inquisitor of Cayden Cailean is cutting you off because you've had too much to drink, its time to stop drinking...


This is a very amusing thread.

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