What to make?


Advice


Hey guys dont have a lot of details but the group consists of a warpiest "tank" a sorcerer which i assume is a blaster and a summoner with a uber guard type. I was doing a Shaman healer type but with the small size of the group I wanted to contribute more to damage (with a wand to heal) I'm thinking maybe a ranger or the slayer archetype of the inquisitor (maybe duel dagger) just curious if I'm missing something.

Grand Lodge

You currently have 5 people on the team (including your undecided character), that is not small.

However, I will suggest a Druid, focusing on melee/wildshape. You will be able to provide healing with wand/staff and can prep your spells for cure spells. You and your AC will also provide more bodies to damage with.

There are other options (and if the campaign is undead, a "healer" shaman could could out damage everyone else), your choice in the end.


I'd go with something archerish, myself. Archer Ranger would be a good option, since you can use wands.


I guess 5 including the eidolean. But half the time one person cant seem to make it. I agree Zhayne the Ranger/archer idea is becoming a good idea imo and by level 5 I can take boon companion and boost up the companion giving the party another body. We are starting at 2 and Gm feels we will be at lvl 3 tonight any race you might recommend?

Grand Lodge

If you are going archer, I would suggest Hunter then. Full druid list for animal companion, starting at level 1 and free Precise Shot. Not to mention all those nice spells like gravity bow and aspect of the falcon.

For race, I like Tengu, but Human and Half Elf can also be good.


ekibus wrote:
I guess 5 including the eidolean. But half the time one person cant seem to make it. I agree Zhayne the Ranger/archer idea is becoming a good idea imo and by level 5 I can take boon companion and boost up the companion giving the party another body. We are starting at 2 and Gm feels we will be at lvl 3 tonight any race you might recommend?

You have plenty of bodies. Don't sweat the AC.


Your party doesn't have a skill monkey. Archer's not a bad idea. How about be a Ninja? Learn the Ninja Vanishing Trick and shoot arrows at automatically flatfooted opponents. You'll be a boon to your party on and off the battlefield.

Silver Crusade

Your party doesn't have a Bard. I recommend an Archer Bard. Your personal damage output will be less than that of, say a Slayer or a Ranger. Once you include all the extra damage your Inspire Courage gives to other martial combatants in the group, though,the Bard will be far ahead.


Actually the sorcerer said he was probably gonna go a witch (believe aiming for debuff, partial heals and knowledge skills) The Summoner is also a archer and his eidolon is a uber perception, good on disable device and after he enchants it, it has like a 24+AC.

So when we talk skill monkey what should I be looking at? I guess the summoner already has a bunch of face skills too. I was actually thinking the bard route, maybe look at the skald. I really wish there was a cleric with 4+int instead of 2+ I really like to have some skills. I wont be lying when I say I'm debating on the inquisitor (sacred slayer) With two weapon fighting + target+ divine favor I really think I could do some damage


I could be mistaken, but I don't normally think of witches as blasters. If that sorcerer is turning out to be a Witch, maybe your party does need a blaster.

As to which skills are best for a skill monkey character, you seem to be in good communication with your fellow players. Were that the case with a campaign I was playing a skill monkey in, I'd just ask my playmates which skills they were investing in and invest in what they weren't.


Yeah he played a sorcerer (tattooed) but when he heard i was gonna lose the shaman he mentioned going the witch route.

I think the GM rather us not make characters based around each other (not to mention what if a person with skill X isn't there?) I'm starting to think a melee character just if the summoner or warpriest cant make it


Well, my advice has precisely been to base your characters around each other. If you and/or your DM don't think that's not according to Hoyle, then I'd say close your eyes, think of the awesomist thing you can, and be that. But do you really need our advice to just follow your heart?

eki, follow your heart. Your heart will lead you to Hell and Glory. I look forward to reading the tale.


I think that is the hardest part trying to base the character loosely and yet still fit a niche. Doesn't help when I'm more a hacker-type and the GM is very based on story/details. So I want to feel useful but really I agree it might just have to be coming up with something I want....


How many blockers do you have? If less than 2, I recommend full-on Battle-cleric a la the various cleric guides floating around. If 2+ I recommend elven archer cleric, doling out the arrow-borne harshness.

I am a simple creature.


Just found out the warpriest is gonna switch to full cleric. So we are sorta losing the tank (granted the uber eidolon can cover it but still) Think I'm just gonna get some sleep...this is giving me a headache :P


Half-orc that's going 50/50 on Scarred Witch-doctor and Syntehtsist Summoner Blood God Disciple. You have an ocean of hit points, a silly number of spells, and you can devour your opponents to grow in power.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


Alchemist [Grenadier] will fill all those needs!
20 point by:
Str 14 (5)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 12 (2)
Int 18 (10,+2)
Wis 12 (2)
Cha 7 (+4)

He can use his Mutagen to boost either Str or Dex, depending on the situation.
Bombs are great blasters and battlefield control (Frost bomb, tanglefoot bomb).
Awesome skill list.
Variant class ability allows greater options in melee or ranged (take longbow).
1/2 Orc allows for +1/2 bomb damage.
Point blank shot, precise shot, splash weapon mastery, and ricochet splash weapon mastery and iron will are your feats.

The only class you ever need!


If your DM really is a lot, lot about the story, than it doesn't matter what your character build is like. All that matters is how you roleplay it.

But now you are thinking Tank. I have some ideas about making a Tank. I'd like to hear yours.

I'm not so sure that Alchemist is the only class you'll ever need, but I like Alchemist a lot.


There are really lots of things that work here.

I would probably make an Invulnerable Rager with the beast totem line and a polearm. Zillions of hit points, DR, and reach generally keep the other team at a distance. What works for monsters works for characters.


Synthesist is banned. I actually revisited the alchemist yesterday and looked at the Grenadier, I'll look at it again. Same with the Invulnerable rager. Actually was gonna look at the bloodrager today.

If I go the tank route, I was actually gonna look at the swashbuckler, at level 3 he gets precision damage equal to his level and I would pick up improved trip and combat reflexes right away (trip them before they get to the party) Maybe go the cavalier archetype route. But I could probably do the same with invulnerable...


Fair enough, but with him making the 5th pc, Alchemist would fit all his needs....
....I also like the Arcanist, Bloodrager and Swashbuckler, although not as much.

Silver Crusade

ekibus wrote:
Just found out the warpriest is gonna switch to full cleric. So we are sorta losing the tank (granted the uber eidolon can cover it but still) Think I'm just gonna get some sleep...this is giving me a headache :P

Why do you make the assumption that switching from Warpriest to Cleric means the loss of a tank? Clerics are just as good at tanking as Warpriests. It all depends on the build. Perhaps the player realized this, and wanted to be equally good at tanking but with full spellcasting. This full cleric is a tank ...


Very true Magda and not knocking that (honestly i was debating on doing my reach cleric finally until he mentioned his attempt) but the gm already asked me to give him advice in healing. They are very old school in thinking


Paladin, secondary healing while tanking the front.

The Exchange

Healing in combat is usually a waste of time and should be done out of it? :p

Your cleric is not your healbot and has good reason to focus on dmging baddies as opposed to healing people. Player expectations forcing clerics to believe they are nothing but healbots is probably the reason why a lot of people refuse to play clerics.

Killing baddies faster usually results in less dmg taken and less to heal then actually trying to do it in combat.


Sigh this is like trying to type to a cult "There shalt be no healers!" Just a Mort as I stated I'm of a similar viewpoint, but dealing with older people with ingrain beliefs and stubbornness will get me no where...and lecturing me is simply silly. Granted my shaman was a healer, but the main "heals" was because I used misfortune and the gm has really bad luck with dice. But honestly I'm more a dice roller and saying "Make a will save." was getting boring. Not to mention while my character was preventing/healing a ton I couldn't contribute to damage. Hence the reroll.

Boring7 agreed that would be a option and a pretty good one, but I seem to be the only one in the party willing to play the LG route. (Again old schoolers believing a paladin has to be lawful stupid) Really though it's up to him he wants advice from me, told the gm to let him know he can shoot me a email with what he wants to do, so I can help him. But he is a younger sort and addicted to LOL so wont hold my breath.

So my thought as to what to make (and back on subject) is leaning towards damage, maybe a martial type (for sustained/multiple encounters) Even with a tank sort we are lacking in damage atm. A Witch, summoner with a skill focused eidolon and a tankish cleric do not scream damage to me. Since we are now at level 3 what would you guys recommend for a damage sort with the possibility of using a wand (but not necessary) I have to do a bit more research but the invulnerable rager idea is looking good.


Please re-read my earlier post.
It will grant you every thing that you will need.

And they are really fun to play!


Okay...

Stubborn old-school mindset GM means this "don't play based on what others are playing" is entirely based on his/her idea that playing to crunch is BadWrongFun and almost invariably means s/he will still be running out-of-the-box modules and scenarios which don't take party make-up into account.

Wandering and flighty party members refusing to decide on a character archetype means you should assume they will all play non-combat bards who traded in healing magic for something ridiculous. Party members who hate paladins and thinks they're all lawful stupid also means there is some old-school "might betray you, or at least abandon you to die" party dynamic.

This is not a problem, this can be fun! Just don't make a character that relies on other people. The question is, "what do you want to do on an adventure before the sudden but inevitable betrayal/abandonment that has you run away and leave them to die?"

From the sound of things you like yourself a good kill, so I recommend magic-hating, damage-dealing AM BARBARIAN monster who tries to be so powerful and unkillable that he doesn't need a party.


Do you think a halfling tank could be fun? I had a PFS halfling tank who had an AC of 22 by level 2. The damage penalty for small size will be partly compensated for by the attack bonus and can be more than offset by the Risky Striker Feat. Meanwhile, you might take a couple levels in Ninja and use your Vanishing Trick to guarantee your Sneak Attack Damage. Maybe also gain the Quick and Great dirty trick feats. You can Blind your opponents and guarantee your sneak attack damage that way. Gain sap Adept and Master and massively spike your Sneak Attack Damage.

Is Vivisectionist banned? Sneak Attack Damage from Vivisectionist stacks with Sneak attack from other places. There's a trick I've always wanted to try with the Tumor Familiar. Have the familiar cast Shield Other on you via a Potion and the Alchemal Allocation Extract and the Tumor Share Spells ability. Then as the Tumor Familiar is taking half the damage you take, it is enjoying Fast Healing 5 while attached to you.

So my idea is that between Dirty Tricks and Blinding opponents, you will enjoy a high Miss Chance most of the time. As some kind of Halfling Fighter/Ninja/Monk/Alchemist with a Dex of 16, an Agile Breastplate (Mithril when you can afford it), and a large shield, you'll have an AC of 22 for starters, and that will only get better. Then with 4 levels in Alchemist, you will have something like Fast Healing. Layers of defense: I like that.

How will this halfling do damage? Well, weapon damage is scaled down for size, but Power Attack Damage isn't. Weapon Specialization isn't. Sneak Attack Damage isn't. Risky Striker is only available to halflings. If you balance it out right, you will be able to combine hard to hit with hard hitting in 1 neat little package.

But this isn't PFS, is it? Maybe it would be even more fun to do a lot of the same things as a Goblin! The Dirty Tricks and Sneak Attack would work just the same. You wouldn't be able to take Risky Striker, but you would be able to take Roll with It and Burn! Burn! Burn! Also, GOBLIN!

Your DM being grumpy about having an over-optimized character will be well-offset by having a character that will be really fun to roleplay: your half-pint Tank warrior who will stare down a column of mounted knights and say, "If you surrender now, I promise you will be decently treated!" You'll be like Sir Didymous in Labyrinth or one of the mice in the Rescuers.


Halflin cavalier with a Riding Rat? You can legitimately run up walls to get to your enemies and poke 'em with a lance.


I always had this vision of a line of halfling heavy cavalry mounted on Giant Skunks.

"Look! The Halflings are retreating!"
--Last words of the orcish General Grawlix Blakovich

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