Do we really think the game developers intended to give level 4 magus a pounce ability?
Since they wrote the spell like this the answer seems to be yes that was the intention. It is not like they can pounce whenever they want. They still have to spend a resource to use it by casting spells.
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The way I describe it, Spell Combat is a full-round action, that includes a spell casting and a full-attack action, done in either order.
You could really 'cheese' it up, if you have a prepared shocking grasp:
Start next to Enemy 'A'.
Declare Spell Combat.
Make Full-Attack on Enemy 'A' at -2. (Spell Combat part 1)
Cast Bladed Dash. (Spell Combat part 2)
Dash towards Enemy 'B'.
Pass by Enemy 'C' during dash, and make the Bladed Dash attack at a -2 + INT-or-CHA.
End Dash next to Enemy 'B', cast Quickened Shock Grasp, and deliver it via free attack on Enemy 'B' at -2.
Leave a cool colorful trail momentarily along your path, spattered with monster blood...
I want this combo to be legal as much as you guys but see no rules justification for it
Specific (this combo) beats general (the no movement rule)
Edit: I should read everything before answering. Ninja'd nearly a day ago.
The way I describe it, Spell Combat is a full-round action, that includes a spell casting and a full-attack action, done in either order.
You could really 'cheese' it up, if you have a prepared shocking grasp:
Start next to Enemy 'A'.
Declare Spell Combat.
Make Full-Attack on Enemy 'A' at -2. (Spell Combat part 1)
Cast Bladed Dash. (Spell Combat part 2)
Dash towards Enemy 'B'.
Pass by Enemy 'C' during dash, and make the Bladed Dash attack at a -2 + INT-or-CHA.
End Dash next to Enemy 'B', cast Quickened Shock Grasp, and deliver it via free attack on Enemy 'B' at -2.Leave a cool colorful trail momentarily along your path, spattered with monster blood...
Who would want to squash something as fun and exciting as this?
I'm not a huge fan of the magus, but this thread is making me want to roll one after my wordcaster dies.
Who would want to squash something as fun and exciting as this?The way I describe it, Spell Combat is a full-round action, that includes a spell casting and a full-attack action, done in either order.
You could really 'cheese' it up, if you have a prepared shocking grasp:
Start next to Enemy 'A'.
Declare Spell Combat.
Make Full-Attack on Enemy 'A' at -2. (Spell Combat part 1)
Cast Bladed Dash. (Spell Combat part 2)
Dash towards Enemy 'B'.
Pass by Enemy 'C' during dash, and make the Bladed Dash attack at a -2 + INT-or-CHA.
End Dash next to Enemy 'B', cast Quickened Shock Grasp, and deliver it via free attack on Enemy 'B' at -2.Leave a cool colorful trail momentarily along your path, spattered with monster blood...
Exactly, this is the kind of 'cheese' I can get behind. Not because it is powerful, but because it is awesome and makes stories. I can 'visualize' this character pulling this off. Some of the other cheese things, though, that are a result of weird rule language, but don't pass the 'I can see that' test, I dislike. This particular maneuver certainly passes the rule of cool, and due to the huge resource use it involves (a 2nd level and a 5th level spell slot, and can only be done at 13th level at the earliest), doesn't result in continuously overpowered bs.
Could also be fun for a Paladin with Unsanctioned Knowledge.*ears perk up*
You'd get a bonus to hit and move towards an enemy without AoOs, but other than that, it doesn't seem so spectacular. You're not getting a full attack in the mix. Or am I missing something?
If you convince your DM that the spells from unsanctioned knowledge are still on the magus spell list, you could dip magus for 2 levels to get spellstrike and spell combat and use it with any spells you gained that way.
I wouldn't read it that way, but it's a possibility.
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Could also be fun for a Paladin with Unsanctioned Knowledge.*ears perk up*
You'd get a bonus to hit and move towards an enemy without AoOs, but other than that, it doesn't seem so spectacular. You're not getting a full attack in the mix. Or am I missing something?
I just meant it could be fun.
Few opponents (or players, for that matter) would expect the Tank in Fullplate to be that mobile.
I personally wouldn't allow that if I were the GM, and hence I won't try it as a player.
As I understand, spell combat applies to spells you know in your role as magus, not spells you happen to know through other classes.
The Broad Study (Ex) Magus Arcana does allow spellstrike and spell combat with spells from his other spellcasting classes. That's about the only way to use the Paladin spells with spell combat/spellstrike... I'm honestly not familiar enough with Paladins and their spell list to determine if this would actually be worth it or not.
Well apparently this combination is legitimate. I'd like a response from the game developers, if possible.
Dimensional Assault
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you use abundant step or cast dimension door as a special charge. Doing so allows you to teleport up to double your current speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability) and to make the attack normally allowed on a charge.
Here we have a similar ability. Requires level 4 spell, and allows only a single attack as per a charge.
Do the game developers not feel that Bladed Dash is a bit overpowered by comparison?
I mean let's get totally real here. Are there any other classes that get pounce access at level 4?
As we have said before you are comparing "all day" pounce to a similar ability that can be used a very limited number of times. I don't think bladed dash is a problem, and yes, I have had a magus in my game.
I am sure the devs know about bladed dash, and they have not issued errata like they did for crane wings. So it seems that the community nor the devs have a problem with it.
As for the dimension feats they are there to improve upon a spell and the monk's abundant step class feature. The spell and this feat have different goals so I don't see the issue.
PS: They dont like it when people ask for a dev response.
Well apparently this combination is legitimate. I'd like a response from the game developers, if possible.
Dimensional Assault
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you use abundant step or cast dimension door as a special charge. Doing so allows you to teleport up to double your current speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability) and to make the attack normally allowed on a charge.
Here we have a similar ability. Requires level 4 spell, and allows only a single attack as per a charge.
Do the game developers not feel that Bladed Dash is a bit overpowered by comparison?
I mean let's get totally real here. Are there any other classes that get pounce access at level 4?
you can pull this off with a monk or a horizon walker and not even have the ability to cast spells at all.
Dimensional assault also doesn't require a straight line per se, as there could be difficult or even non existent terrain between the start point and the end point.
With dimensional assault you can literally by pass everything else between you and your target.
caster though he was safe back there?
Not any more.
Well apparently this combination is legitimate. I'd like a response from the game developers, if possible.
Check the last page. You got a Pathfinder dev saying there is zero balance concerns about Bladed Dash in combination with Spell Combat.
I saw that part. What I don't get is how the power level is regarded to be in line with Dimensional Assault, or with the fact that any other class doesnt get a pounce-like ability at that level.
1. It is a very limited number of times per day at the level you get it.
2. Magus mostly shines damage wise by using damaging spells, so the very act of using Bladed Dash to get your normal melee attacks is pretty much always worse than just casting Shocking Grasp, a lower level spell, and walking up and attacking.
As a side note, if Spell Combat is a full attack action as mentioned earlier in this thread, does that mean I can use Dimensional Dervish in combination with Spell Combat?
I saw that part. What I don't get is how the power level is regarded to be in line with Dimensional Assault, or with the fact that any other class doesnt get a pounce-like ability at that level.
Summoner gets pounce at level 1. Bladed dash isn't even the best level 2 spell available to the magus.
Don't compare it to dimensional assault. Dimensional assault is an awful feat. Bladed dash is just better. Pathfinder has a very loose balance system.
You should probably just accept and move on. You don't have to like the ability, but it is what it is and your continued assertions are starting to come off as petulant. We all have parts of the game we don't particularly like - personally, I would rather all characters have an easy method of gaining pseudo-pounce, rather than restricting it so heavily.
*edit*
actually, all character have access to a quick runner's shirt by this level or soon after, so there is a pseudo-pounce available to literally every class. What do you have to say about that?
Here we have a similar ability. Requires level 4 spell, and allows only a single attack as per a charge.
This is not a similar ability at all. First of all, this is a teleport--Bladed Dash is not. Second, this feat is designed specifically to overcome the limitations on the Dimension Door spell. It, in no way, functions anything like Bladed Dash.
And yes, the Summoner gets Pounce at level 1. Also note, that Pounce is strong because its unlimited. Bladed Dash is extremely limited. The Magus has very limited level 2 slots, especially at 4th level.
Also as I showed earlier the Magus does more damage by moving up normally and then spell striking with a Frigid Touch or even the level 1 Shocking Grasp than by Spellcombating for Bladed Dash.
So a Magus "Pouncing" using a 2nd spell, taking a -2 to hit on both his attacks, and hitting for something like 1d6+6 or 2d6+12 if both hit is overpowered?
>Dimensional assault also doesn't require a straight line per se, as there could be difficult or even non existent terrain between the start point and the end point.
Yes it does, it functions as a charge, or thats the implication with the pre-req feat as well.
>With dimensional assault you can literally by pass everything else between you and your target.
You can with the Bladed Dash as well. You move instantly up to 30 feet, (granted, the range is less than Dimensional Assault) as a non-action, with a free attack that has a bonus and still get a full attack.
It is in every way other than range better than Dimensional Assault. Requiring a level 2 spell rather than a level 4 spell, no feats and allowing for a full attack action as part of it.
It's more than just a good combination, it totally eclipses every other similar ability that I can think of. Also, Druids and Barbarians don't get Pounce until level 10 or so, I believe.
I'd interested to hear how the developers believe a level 4 pounce is in line with the rest of the game, balance-wise. The only saving grace of this...
It can't be combined with Spellstrike / Shocking Grasp. Because it eats your 1-spell-per-turn limit.
so in your mind, if there are melee combatants between me and that wizard I want to charge, bladed dash lets me by pass the enemy in my lane?
Likewise if there is a river, or a wall of force…I can just bladed dash in a straight line instantly, ignoring all obstacles?
>Dimensional assault also doesn't require a straight line per se, as there could be difficult or even non existent terrain between the start point and the end point.
Yes it does, it functions as a charge, or thats the implication with the pre-req feat as well.
>With dimensional assault you can literally by pass everything else between you and your target.
You can with the Bladed Dash as well. You move instantly up to 30 feet, (granted, the range is less than Dimensional Assault) as a non-action, with a free attack that has a bonus and still get a full attack.
It is in every way other than range better than Dimensional Assault. Requiring a level 2 spell rather than a level 4 spell, no feats and allowing for a full attack action as part of it.
It's more than just a good combination, it totally eclipses every other similar ability that I can think of. Also, Druids and Barbarians don't get Pounce until level 10 or so, I believe.
I'd interested to hear how the developers believe a level 4 pounce is in line with the rest of the game, balance-wise. The only saving grace of this...
It can't be combined with Spellstrike / Shocking Grasp. Because it eats your 1-spell-per-turn limit.
I don't know if you noticed but a magus doing a full attack without a spell to back up his damage is not all that impressive. If you don't believe me then make a magus that can use this, and tell me why the damage matters? A barbarian that could pounce at at level 6 once it gets full attacks is different.
Honestly since, the magus does not have iterative attacks at level 4 it really does not matter anyway.
How about you show how it is unbalanced. Give us some math to show how it overshadows other classes, or like I said just build a 4th level magus. One of us can provide another class to compare it to.
Regarding summoners...
First of all, most people agree Synthesist Summoners are OP. Secondly, its their Eidolons getting pounce and not them, big difference. Also, summoners rarely do the kind of damage that a Magus or Dex fighter will do, as it'd be with non-manufactured weapons and without spell strike.
Actually most people who realize the power of action economy know that the synthesis is not as good as being able to full attack and cast spells which is what a normal summoner does.
If there's any way to combine this with Shocking Grasp at low level, it's ripe for some abuse. The idea with Paladins and Unsanctioned Knowledge, yeah thats pure cheese. I intend to abuse that with extreme prejudice, until or if this ever gets FAQ'd.
Cheese is subjective. "I don't like it" does not equal cheese.
All you are doing is repeating yourself. Bring some proof because if you don't convince the community that this is broken then we won't complain, and there will likely be no errata. Personally I don't have a a problem with you having your opinion. The problem is that you are not bringing any proof to the table, and comparing ability A to ability B is not proof. It is at best anecdotal evidence.
>Dimensional assault also doesn't require a straight line per se, as there could be difficult or even non existent terrain between the start point and the end point.
Yes it does, it functions as a charge, or thats the implication with the pre-req feat as well.
The spell allows you to move anywhere within 100+10/lvl feet, regardless of difficult terrain (or no terrain) between you and the destination. Dimensional assault says you teleport a distance up to twice your move speed, but doesn't say you have to actually be capable of charging over that distance. (If you did, what would be the point? You could just charge instead.)
It does not function as a charge. You seem to be having a problem with reading implications into rules that do not exist there. Stop that. Read the rules that appear in the feat or spell and take them at face value.
Actually most people who realize the power of action economy know that the synthesis is not as good as being able to full attack and cast spells which is what a normal synthesis does.Regarding summoners...
First of all, most people agree Synthesist Summoners are OP. Secondly, its their Eidolons getting pounce and not them, big difference. Also, summoners rarely do the kind of damage that a Magus or Dex fighter will do, as it'd be with non-manufactured weapons and without spell strike.
Did you mean to say "...is what a normal summoner does."?
Did you mean to say "...is what a normal summoner does."?Actually most people who realize the power of action economy know that the synthesis is not as good as being able to full attack and cast spells which is what a normal synthesis does.Regarding summoners...
First of all, most people agree Synthesist Summoners are OP. Secondly, its their Eidolons getting pounce and not them, big difference. Also, summoners rarely do the kind of damage that a Magus or Dex fighter will do, as it'd be with non-manufactured weapons and without spell strike.
Thanks.
It has been fixed. :)
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Note full attack action specified no movement not no move action. cut and dry
Specific > General
Bladed Dash does not use a move action, it is a spell. Cast as a part of spell combat, you complete the spells effects (move + attack) and take your normal iterative attacks.
You can chant your mantra all you like, but this is how the spell works.
how does combining it with spell strike matter?
technically you can do it without ever having spellstrike… so the spell strike class ability is moot.
There intent is that you are not to move(not counting 5 foot steps) via the move action and full attack. The spell allows you to move under the power of the spell, and since the spell itself, due to the magus class features, is part of the full round attack, there is nothing to stop the other attacks once the magus arrives at his location.
When the CRB was made this spell did not exist just like certain rules are not repeated for new classes. The spellbook rules as an example specifically call out wizards. Would you deny using them for a future class that also had a spellbook?
you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.
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you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.
No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.