Grapple: controller attack with std / defender with full round?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

According to the Grapple rules and the flowchart on http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple, it seems that the controlling grappler can only deal damage as standard action on his round, plus he need a succesful grapple check to do it, while the defender can take a full round attack without even do the grapple check.

1) Do I understood correctly?
2) If yes, isn't it a bit disadvantageous to the grappler?
3) If not, someone could explain me how it works?

My point is that, if I'm correct, it seems that it's not worth to start a grapple with a fighter type.


It depends. A grappled creature cannot take actions requiring two hands, so they can't swing a great sword. They have -2 on all attacks and -4 on dex, so an agile combatant has -4 penalty to hitting things. The grappled individual still has to make the attack rolls.

The gappler has to pass his maintain grapple check, but if he does then he will do free damage (no attack roll needed). Alternatively, he can choose to pin the target. At that point, the target cannot attack.

So the first round of grappling a big guy can be dangerous, since he gets attacks against you, but he's at -2 to attacks, so it is overall better than just exchanging full attacks.

G Round 1) G grappled W
W Round 1) W full attacks G (-2 to hit)
G Round 2) G maintains the grapple, pinning W
W Round 2) W attempts to escape
G Round 3) G maintains the grapple, ties up the target, walks away
W Round 3) W will probably never get out because the DC is now 20+G's CMB

The Exchange

It can be a disadvantage, yes, but that's why as a grappler you'll generally want to inflict the pinned condition before you proceed to inflicting damage. Also note that by the time you get the Rapid Grappler Feat you'll be getting three grapple checks per round (for your standard, move, and swift actions) so it's not like you can't apply damage multiple times a round at all, it just requires a specialised build.


I hate to say it but I thought the thread was about grappling people to give them STDs.

I'm sorry.

Liberty's Edge

Grappling as a mechanic is very very weak. It started out poor and has only gotten worse as Pathfinder has applied 'clarifications'.

You've got it right. Without extensive feat investment, grapple is a net loss of actions.


Or be a tiger, lots of things are solved by being a tiger.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

I would argue that grapple can be a very strong mechanic but like many effects you need to specialize to make it function.

Just like a save or die caster really needs to optimize their Save DCs a grappler has to optimize their CMB and CMD to make it effective. However, grappling a number of creature can effectively shut them down. On more than one occasion my tetori monk was able to complete shut down a caster or devil/demon with grappling as they had no way to attack while pinned and couldn't pass the required concentration check to use their spells or SLAs.


grapple are great.
if you are not an expert - its a caster blocker only - as normal cleric / wizard are "game over" if grappled.

if you want to use it on non casters, than yes you need to focus.
1 lvl of maneuver master monk, with extra free grapple per round and 2 feats is in place.

my druid's tiger took the line and in lvl 10 has greater grapple...
on full attacks - its attack and grab and like the +4.
if got only 1 attack it attack + pin in round 1, than shred you with rake.

it work so great i am considering taking the 3 line (or dip 1 monk) on my druid as well....
yes, it wont work always. no one grab the iron super cmd golem that is on flame. its like all tricks. dont invest only it that, but when it works it amazing and can win a battle .


I play a grapple focused Treesinger Druid. Generally, things don't survive long enough while grappled to make a full attack. Something to remember with a grapple focused character (and all characters) is: you are rarely fighting by yourself.

My primary tactic is to grapple and then either pin (greater grapple) or move the enemie. Doing that allows our TWF rogue to get full sneak attack, or the katana wielding fighter to eviscerate them.

Or I can lock down an enemy while the others deal other threats. I can't take out a dragon by myself, but it seems crazy to expect such ability.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Grapple: controller attack with std / defender with full round? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.