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Empowered Greater False Life?
That, I have to admit, is a mix I hadn't thought of. Still hit the hard cap though right?
You roll (1d10+10)x1.5 = 23.25 temp hp for a 4th level spell (better than 2d10+10 for greater false life at 10th level), or a 2nd level spell and a minor rod of empowering. It works out to about +50% to your hp pool.
Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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Another trick for necromancers - get a spell-storing haramaki, then put a vampiric touch in it. It really ups your survivability, especially at the levels where animate dead, lesser isn't really helpful to you anymore.
Did they clarify the action to use Spell Storing armor? As written you could only use that if you were provoking an AoO since activating the spell is a swift action, but you can only take swift actions on your own turn.
This armor allows a spellcaster to store a single touch spell of
up to 3rd level in it. Anytime a creature hits the wearer with
a melee attack or melee touch attack, the armor can cast the
spell on that creature as a swift action if the wearer desires.
Once the spell has been cast from the armor, a spellcaster
can cast any other targeted touch spell of up to 3rd level into
it. The armor magically imparts to the wielder the name of
the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled suit of
spell storing armor has a 50% chance to have a spell stored
in it already. Spell storing armor emits a strong aura of the
evocation school, plus the aura of the stored spell.
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Awesome! I love guides.
You may want to mention this broken well balanced item, though.
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One thing to note. A strict reading of the Undead Mastery feat means that it only allows you to animate more Undead per casting. It does not increase your level for purposes of the number of Undead you can control. As such it is a bit pants.
It refers to both animate dead and the Control Undead feat, so the only possible reading is that it lets you control an extra 4HD with either, even though it forgot to mention the feat the second time.
Also on Traits if you wish to take advantage of your far greater intellect then consider undertaking a course in Philosophy. Given your Int will still well outstrip your Cha even with you not dumping it you will get more benefit from it.
Student of philosophy is amazing for wizard faces, even though it's a bit more limited than it looks at first glance. I'll add it to the guide.
You mention Dazing spell and Dazing Wall of Fire which is awesome. Might I humbly also suggest Dazing Ball Lightning to force multiple saves or affect targets who are rather more spread out. Also for those creatures with significant spell resistance then Dazing Acid Arrow or Ice Spears can have a significant impact on the course of the battle.
I used dazing ball lightning as well. Same principle as dazing ball of fire.
OK, Magic Jar is a really annoyingly worded spell. Rereading it you don't need LoE to move your soul into the Jar but you do need LoE to possess things while within the Jar. That means having your familiar or another party member carry around the receptacle for your soul while you hide in your bubble which seems a bit risky.
Every party member is given a gem to serve as a possible phylactery.
Did I say phylactery?
I meant to say spell focus.
One thing I have never quite been sure about with magic jar is whether or not you can discriminate between the lifeforces in range. Say you have a group of 4 level 10 PC's fighting 3 hill giant barbarians with 8HD. All of them ping at the same strength and you cannot determine relative positions meaning you have a good chance to end up possessing another PC. Where does that sit on the no pvp rule?
It doesn't actually hurt them. You just back out and try another target the next round.
One other way of making use of EFS is with Elemental Form I. Staying as an Earth Elemental allows you to earth glide in and out of the bubble (actually a hemisphere) to cast spells and then retreat. Arcanists with Dimensional Slide also make great use of it.
I mention this in the guide, more or less.
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Another trick for necromancers - get a spell-storing haramaki, then put a vampiric touch in it. It really ups your survivability, especially at the levels where animate dead, lesser isn't really helpful to you anymore.
I'd prefer having mage armor up for at least a nod at boosting my AC.
Mage armor disables any magic armor you wear that has a +3 armor bonus or lower, unfortunately.
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Another trick for necromancers - get a spell-storing haramaki, then put a vampiric touch in it. It really ups your survivability, especially at the levels where animate dead, lesser isn't really helpful to you anymore.I'd prefer having mage armor up for at least a nod at boosting my AC.
Mage armor disables any magic armor you wear that has a +3 armor bonus or lower, unfortunately.
Quote on that last part? I know they don't stack, and I know bracers of armor have that wording, but last I checked mage armor* doesn't.
I'm of the opinion anyway that AC is a waste on a caster and you're better off trying to get miss chances to hit and use your armor on useful properties. I'm glad I spent that 30,000 on my sorc's armor for determination as opposed to AC boosting items.
*
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Hi,
I really like this guide.
However I think it needs a build example with detailed level by level feats and maybe also spell choices.
Also, do you have any strategies in the lower levels? It seems like this build is more designed for higher level play
Keep up with the good work and thank you for the guide;)
Faskill
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Dear Shaka,
I'm glad you posted this here. Since reading it on r/pathfinder i have been trying to decide between this and Treantmonk's god build conjurist. My wizard is about to jump to lvl 2 so I dont have much time to decide. I have a few questions for you.
Is your necromancer still a capable conjurer without being a dedicated conjurist?
What do you think about Treantmonk's statement that clerics are better necromancers?
Do you have a proposed stat build for a human necromancer?
Would you be upset if i shamelessly stole your character concept of an Osirian human 'mancer?
How did you react when the walls fell?
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Quote on that last part? I know they don't stack, and I know bracers of armor have that wording, but last I checked mage armor* doesn't.
I'm of the opinion anyway that AC is a waste on a caster and you're better off trying to get miss chances to hit and use your armor on useful properties. I'm glad I spent that 30,000 on my sorc's armor for determination as opposed to AC boosting items.
I agree. I didn't waste a single dollar boosting my wizard's armor class (spent 4PP for wands of mage armor and shield), and he did just fine. Hit points, invisibility, and *not being in melee with monsters* does wonders for your survivability.
When you're in "don't roll a 1" territory, you're in a pretty deep hole to dig yourself out of. That said, if you're given a chance to buff before a combat, burning a charge off a level 1 wand for shield took Osiric up to AC 21, which is high enough that some low level threats like Vrocks actually would actually need 8s to hit him.
There's a long thread on here if mage armor disables magic armor. Rather than weigh in myself, I'll just link it: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qma3?Does-Mage-Armor-and-Armor-Enhancement-sta ck
I personally wouldn't build a character around it, but you're absolutely right a spell storing ceremonial armor could increase your survivability a little bit, and every bit helps.
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It doesn't actually hurt them. You just back out and try another target the next round.It may not cause actual HP damage but I am not sure I would call ripping someone's soul out of their body and stuffing it into a gem harmless.
Also you have just wasted two of your own turns (full round action to possess, standard to return) and one of your allies. Given you may well have 6 other PC's at the table the chance of possessing the wrong target seems very high.
Far better to Jar into your Imp familiar or something and stash your body in a bag of holding with a Life Bubble on it.
Your familiar is part of your soul, so you cannot possess it, and it doesn't show up as a target.
It's no more harmful than a wizard throwing down a wall of force or something.
As long as all of your party members carry socketed clear spindle ioun stones (which everyone should have), you cannot possess them anyway.
Targeting isn't as hard as you think - since most parties have a range of levels, if you have possible targets of 8,9,10,11,12 - with 12 being the BBEG, you can target the 12, because he's 4 higher than the 8. Keeping some animals around for this purpose is also very useful for helping to discriminate between targets. You very rarely encounter monsters that are all exactly the same HD as your party.
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Hi,
I really like this guide.
However I think it needs a build example with detailed level by level feats and maybe also spell choices.
Also, do you have any strategies in the lower levels? It seems like this build is more designed for higher level playKeep up with the good work and thank you for the guide;)
Faskill
I have updated it with a recommended feat order and a sample spell list.
At lower levels, you have command undead, which is insanely useful. With undead master, you can potentially command every enemy you are fighting at 1st level. At higher levels, you rarely will get more than 1 powerful undead under your control.
You also have normal wizard tricks like color spray, glitterdust, and so forth. But there's not a whole lot there that make necromancers much different from other wizards.
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Is your necromancer still a capable conjurer without being a dedicated conjurist?
Sure. For a long time I had spell focus and greater spell focus conjuration on my wish list, as persistent glitterdusts (with magic lineage) were my primary offense. I'd usually carry three or four a day.
What do you think about Treantmonk's statement that clerics are better necromancers?
He's probably basing that on the fact that clerics get animate dead a level earlier. But they don't get Control Undead - necromancers do. (Undead Lords, which are pretty sweet, are now banned in PFS.) Necromancers also get free Spell Focus (Necromancy) in PFS, which lets them qualify for Undead Master at 1st level, which is essential.
By 15th level, necromancers are *five feats* ahead of clerics. Plus, they get better spells, like magic jar and chill touch.
Do you have a proposed stat build for a human necromancer?
7/14/14/18/9/14 or 7/14/14/19/7/14.
Would you be upset if i shamelessly stole your character concept of an Osirian human 'mancer?
Not at all. Necromancy seems right at home in the desert. I keep a portable hole full of mummies for special occasions.
How did you react when the walls fell?
Hehehe.
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It doesn't actually hurt them. You just back out and try another target the next round.It may not cause actual HP damage but I am not sure I would call ripping someone's soul out of their body and stuffing it into a gem harmless.
Also you have just wasted two of your own turns (full round action to possess, standard to return) and one of your allies. Given you may well have 6 other PC's at the table the chance of possessing the wrong target seems very high.
Far better to Jar into your Imp familiar or something and stash your body in a bag of holding with a Life Bubble on it.
Your familiar is part of your soul, so you cannot possess it, and it doesn't show up as a target.
It's no more harmful than a wizard throwing down a wall of force or something.
As long as all of your party members carry socketed clear spindle ioun stones (which everyone should have), you cannot possess them anyway.
Targeting isn't as hard as you think - since most parties have a range of levels, if you have possible targets of 8,9,10,11,12 - with 12 being the BBEG, you can target the 12, because he's 4 higher than the 8. Keeping some animals around for this purpose is also very useful for helping to discriminate between targets. You very rarely encounter monsters that are all exactly the same HD as your party.
Note that the clear spindle trick only works against control/domination spells from evil casters, per the FAQ, since it now works exactoly like that part of the protection from evil spell, not just as a blanket anti-domination effect.
Also, I believe that there is a spell specifically designed to let you, or maybe only a witch?, possess the body of her familiar...
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(Undead Lords, which are pretty sweet, are now banned in PFS.) Necromancers also get free Spell Focus (Necromancy) in PFS, which lets them qualify for Undead Master at 1st level, which is essential.
Prerequisites: Spell focus (necromancy), the ability to cast animate dead or command undead.
Undead Master requires being able to cast (command undead or animate dead - so how can you qualify at 1st level - is there some race that gets either as a spell-like ability?
being able to cast command undead is different from having the Command Undead feat.
Have you actually read the Undead Master feat?
It clearly mentions the Command Undead feat
Yes, Undead Master mentions the Command Undead feat, but only in the benefits section, not in the prerequisites section:
Undead Master
You can marshal vast armies of the undead to serve you.Prerequisites: Spell focus (necromancy), the ability to cast animate dead or command undead.
Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.
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Well, depends on how you read it I guess :
The ability to (cast animate dead) or to command undead.
The command undead feat enables you to command undead, so it should be legal. It's really some heavy rule nitpicking you're doing here, as it's pretty clear the feat should enable you to qualify.
I actually agree with the others... you need to be able to cast the spell to take this feat. It's really more of a level restriction than anything... you need to be able to cast at least 2nd level spells.
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This is clarified by going to the PRD.
Please note that prerequisites for Animate Dead and Command Undead link to the specific spells.
So, by RAW, the Command Undead feat does not meet the prerequisites for Undead Master.
Well, depends on how you read it I guess :
The ability to (cast animate dead) or to command undead.
The command undead feat enables you to command undead, so it should be legal. It's really some heavy rule nitpicking you're doing here, as it's pretty clear the feat should enable you to qualify.
When I looked at the PRD, both animate dead and command undead were italicized, which didn't come thru in my response - I should have mentioned that that was what I was basing my reasoning on. I double-checked my second-printing hardback of Ultimate Magic and they are italicized there as well, so I feel safe in concluding that it currently means the spell command undead (unless corrected it in a later printing - the FAQ didn't turn up anything about Undead Master).
Looking at the Undead Master feat, I admit it isn't clear what the feat does if you use the Command Undead feat, since it only affect animating the dead when used in that way...
This is a guide for PFS, so issues which could be subject to table variation should be mentioned upfront rather than glossed over. I think many GMs would have trouble with this method of qualifying for the Undead Master feat.
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I double-checked my second-printing hardback of Ultimate Magic and they are italicized there as well, so I feel safe in concluding that it currently means the spell command undead (unless corrected it in a later printing - the FAQ didn't turn up anything about Undead Master).
Since the only errata for UM is from first to second printing, you're looking at the correct text.
Undead Master requires the ability to cast the spell command undead. The necromancer will have to wait on Undead Master till level 3.
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I double-checked my second-printing hardback of Ultimate Magic and they are italicized there as well, so I feel safe in concluding that it currently means the spell command undead (unless corrected it in a later printing - the FAQ didn't turn up anything about Undead Master).Since the only errata for UM is from first to second printing, you're looking at the correct text.
Undead Master requires the ability to cast the spell command undead. The necromancer will have to wait on Undead Master till level 3.
It also means you can't just take a one level dip into necromancer to qualify and switch to cleric or oracle - as I have seen more than once.
That italics form is used throughout the feat requirements in the book
Prerequisites: Critical Focus, ability to cast bestow curse
or major curse, caster level 9th (both spells italicized).
Moonlight summons (in the book) has both a feat and spell requirement
Prerequisites: Spell Focus (conjuration), able to cast
summon nature’s ally. - the spell is italicized and the feat is not.
Yet Undead Master has both terms animate dead and command undead italicized.
My guess is that some of the websites people use instead of the books do not continue the formatting cues as to the nature of terms in the book.
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Honestly, I have difficulty seeing how the font of the text is relevant.
Sure, spells are generally italicized, but is that really a general rule? Is it actually written somewhere that spells will be throughout the book italicized? Also, the PRD is hardly an official source and should not be mentioned when discussing RAW.
Couldn't the writer of the feat just have been too lazy to write both the command undead spell and feat, assuming that both would be able to make one qualify for Undead Master?
I'm just hypothesizing here but it does seem like the whole argument is that the text is in italics, and I don't think you can really make a ruling based on that.
Also, I don't think the examples are relevant. The thing I'm arguing here is that the feat would not have a feat AND a spell requirement but a feat OR a spell requirement, which would maybe be a bit of an exception I guess.
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Honestly, I have difficulty seeing how the font of the text is relevant.
Sure, spells are generally italicized, but is that really a general rule? Is it actually written somewhere that spells will be throughout the book italicized? Also, the PRD is hardly an official source and should not be mentioned when discussing RAW.
A more serious answer:
Italicizing spells is part of the Paizo Pathfinder house style for their products. When a specific spell is mentioned like Magic Missile or Wish it is italicized. This is consistent and intentional throughout all their Pathfinder products.
As for RAW and the PRD, the PRD is the official reference document on the Paizo website -- it doesn't get any more official than that.
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The website he and I was referring to, the one with the links to the spells, is this one :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com , which is far from being official
.....The official PRD does the exact same thing, links to the spells and italics.
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As long as all of your party members carry socketed clear spindle ioun stones (which everyone should have), you cannot possess them anyway.
Setting aside what other people have said about the efficacy of this, it also requires all players to have Seekers of Secrets.
Personally, I don't consider the resonance power of the clear spindle ioun stone to be cricket, and don't use it on any of my characters.
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Well, depends on how you read it I guess :
The ability to (cast animate dead) or to command undead.
The command undead feat enables you to command undead, so it should be legal. It's really some heavy rule nitpicking you're doing here, as it's pretty clear the feat should enable you to qualify.
Precisely.
For some reason, Paizo *loves* to use the same words for multiple things. Skald archetype. Skald class. Brawler archetype. Brawler class. Command Undead feat. Command undead spell. Command Undead the feat referring to Control Undead the spell. Etc.
Undead Master is a very poorly worded feat, but the feat description refers to both command undead the spell and command undead the feat, so it's clear you qualify at 1st level. If it really matters to you, take it at 3rd.
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Note that the clear spindle trick only works against control/domination spells from evil casters, per the FAQ, since it now works exactoly like that part of the protection from evil spell, not just as a blanket anti-domination effect.
I'm aware of the ruling that it functions just like protection from evil. The important point to note is that magic jar explicitly says that it is "blocked by protection from evil" with no reference to the alignment of the caster. So a clear spindle will protect your party members.
Also, I believe that there is a spell specifically designed to let you, or maybe only a witch?, possess the body of her familiar...
Familiar Melding.
Not a great spell from an action economy perspective.