Mythic powers


Rules Questions

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No, "by my logic" nothing. Sorcerers also have a recent casting limit.

As well, it counting as 8 hours of rest is irrelevant to the recent casting limit. The recent casting limit does not rely on rest, it relies on a specific unit of time. Specifically, hours. 8 of them.

You have not slept for 8 hours. You have slept for 1. It was as restful as 8 hours of sleep, but it was not 8 hours. 8 hours has not passed, therefore you cannot refresh spells you have cast within the last 8 hours.


I can't remember how I interpreted this rule, but I believe I too arrived at the specific overriding the general, since when our DM started regretting adding mythic powers to the game I warned him to absolutely stop advancing us before we reached tier 3 and really got crazy.


Rynjin wrote:

No, "by my logic" nothing. Sorcerers also have a recent casting limit.

As well, it counting as 8 hours of rest is irrelevant to the recent casting limit. The recent casting limit does not rely on rest, it relies on a specific unit of time. Specifically, hours. 8 of them.

You have not slept for 8 hours. You have slept for 1. It was as restful as 8 hours of sleep, but it was not 8 hours. 8 hours has not passed, therefore you cannot refresh spells you have cast within the last 8 hours.

As strange as this may sound I did more digging while at work. Rynjin is correct about the rule with recent casting limit, which applies to not just wizards & sorcerers, but bards, clerics, any divine or arcane caster (as far as I could find).

I ultimately agree RavingDork & DesolateHarmony. This is a conundrum & I more interesting in addressing this issue before it arises in a game session & we are falling into playing rules lawyer for hours.

The time at minimum would be 8 hours & 15 minutes re-prep all spells around the 8 hour limit. Assuming: 7 hours of non-casting, spend mythic power, rest for 1 hours, then 15 of prep via the mythic mastery.

Seannoss hit upon the main point I was trying to find a good draw down with the spells per day analysis & that is " It is odd how it would restore other classes most powerful and game balance-wise equally powerful abilities while not effecting casters"

It does seem strange that is grants massive, imbalanced uses to one set of classes & not others. This was part of what i was trying to raise with the bardic powers comparison. I was trying to draw a correlation between the other cited examples for the Resurgence. Also, to perhaps broaden the scope. Most of this discussion seems to focus upon arcane, wizards mainly it seems, casters. Example: Clerics pray at dawn, noon or dusk usually to prep spells. How about them?

@LazarX: I can see both sides of your analysis, just like Rynjin's. Here is the crux sir. You say "Spell slots do not fall under that description." yet is does state Spells per Day. I will use the first table I can find with my point. Core rules, page 36. bard, Table 3-3, far right column is listed as .. wait for it (sorry could not resist) ... Spells Per Day. Forgive the smart-ass sarcasm.

To much law is at play with the rules here. How is it to be read? Is it like real world law? Newer laws replace, adjust, limit, expand, or even completely eliminate previous laws. To cite an example,Red means STOP! Then it is changed to be, except when making a right turn. Adjusted: unless you are driving a vehicle over XX tons.

We have the same issue here. Core rules are base (older) "laws" & Mythic rules are newer. Therefore, to me, the Mythic power does over-ride SOME of the old rules in this effect. Rynjin raises a great point casting limit. To me, Piazo just needs to expand upon this Mythic Power & make it crystal clear. Based on everything I have read here so far, this rule to open to so many different ways of looking at & subject to abuse.


Do not speak to me about the law I just got a $400 fine because the tow ball that came with the car from the manufacturer when viewed from a specific angle obscures part of the licsence plate that also came from the manufacturer (I intend to try and fight it).

Wasn't aware of the sorcerers having a casting limit like that. So it seems that there's no way to resolve this here hopefully a dev will answer it. However since I like a good debate . . .

Ryjinn so how do you account for the fact that it specifally states spells per day in the description of what it does allow but doesn't add "However this doesn't override the recent casting limit of 8 hours" in the section outlining that mythic powers aren't affected? To me it seems to overrride the recent casting limit as well because its a mythic ability affecting a non-mythic ability and the limitation is how much mythic power you have/are willing to spend.

I at least would have included something when it was saying that it specfically allows a caster to recover spells per day when using it if it wasn't meant to also cover this. Not to mention it seems a little odd to say "This ability allows you to recover spells per day as long as you haven't cast those spells in the last eight hours." limiting just casters to 3 rememorizations a day (8 hours + 15 minutes, 8 hours + 15 minutes = 1 at the start and 2 throughout the day) even if they have 10+ mythic power.


I would say regarding this issue that the ability does say that the abilities are treated to have had 8 hours of sleep. If the ability had 8 hours of sleep then 8 hours have passed and if 8 hours have passed then there are no penalties to re-prepping. It does not say a full night's rest or anything nebulous, it says 8 hours, treat it as if the players had slept for 8 hours. If the PC's had been interrupted and cast spells during that 1 hour then yes, I'd say they couldn't use the slots they expended.

Otherwise this ability is useless, in it's entirety.

Bard: "Alright guys let's go!"
Barbarian: "Yeah I'm ready to face the world"
Paladin: "Well I'm two spells down but apart from that I'm good! Lets go get them!"
Wizard: "Yeah no, we need to wait till tomorrow."
Cleric: "Yeah I can channel, but that's it, so unless you want to adventure without us you will just need to wait."
Bard: "What? your kidding!"
Wizard: "Well I've got my hand of the apprentice, do you think that will be enough?"
Bard: "Of course we're mythic!"
Wizard: "If you say so"

TPK

The point of this ability is to emphasize the fact that your mythic power is now your most valuable resource, and that all other abilities are secondary. This doesn't work if it isn't true for the spellcasters. If spellcasters don't benifit from this ability then a mythic point is just slightly more valuable than their highest level spell slot, so if spending a mythic point will save them 3 spell slots it's actually a good bargain, which is dumb.


So you're saying, Hogeyhead, that the core class abilities of each class are secondary to the mythic power that EVERYONE gets at third tier?

Really?

I don't think mythic power is supposed to make your other abilities secondary, just like I don't think that this power is supposed to let you cast 12 different sets of your spells per day (rest one hour, cast everything in an hour, rest one hour, cast everything in an hour).

You're saying this allows wizards, sorcerors, etc. to cast their entire complement of spells, multiple times per day, and that's okay?

I don't think so.


Sorcerer:"Well I've got no mythic power left but all my spell slots, so I should be okay."
GM: "you sure?"
Sorcerer: "Oh yeah, I'll be fine"
GM: "K there are 3 (insert monster x)
Sorcerer: "I cast fireball"
GM: "yeah they're mythic x, they are immune"
Sorcerer: "I cast slow"
GM: "well they have two standard actions per turn, so they still get a full round, because they are mythic, they get to save each round also because they are mythic."
Scorcer: "Cloudkill?"
GM: "Immune to non-mythic poison"
Scorerer: "Well disintegrate"
GM: "hmm a natural 1, he spends a mythic point to reroll, cause he can, he suceeds"
Scorcerer: "Hmmm"
GM: "Oh and they ignore non mythic invisibility because of course they have blind sight 120, they've been full rounding you this entire time. You're dead"


I don't know enough about Mythic rules to respond.


Well the point is if it doesn't refresh spells there is no real point to the ability as it doesn't negate the need for sleep completely, the only time it could be useful is if you need to prepare spells twice per day, and you can wait 8 hours, even though you are in a rush, or if at night you suddenly need your spells right then, but have an hour to wait. So circumstantial as to be useless, unless you are going to be adventuring without your spellcasters, or you expect them to reduce the number of spells they cast per encounter to say 20%, so as to be able to take advantage of the rest time for everyone else.

Is the ability strong? Yes yes it is, it does allow you to use your non mythic abilities with a certain amount of abandon. You still are restricted by your mythic power reserves which are very finite. You don't want to face mythic monsters without them. Have you looked at the monsters mythic characters face? They are ridiculous. Sometimes all your best mundane spells just aren't enough. Not when you are level 4 and all your enemies have 100+ hp and there are like 6 of them. That has happened to me.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think that Hogeyhead is exaggerating for effect but in the case of this mythic AP the enemies have lots of resistances, immunities and SR. There are mythic feats and abilities around most things but this AP is harsh for casters.
And, other than the quicken metamagic feat, there is still no way for casters to cast more than one spell per round. Melee needed to catch up in power some but it is very easy to get full round attacks every round, and then spend mythic points to do more.
So enabling casters to cast their allotment more than once per day may not be as powerful as it sounds.


@ Seannoss, well yes I was exaggerating a bit with the little dialogues, mostly for dramatic effect, but not about the hp thing. Good lord what a fight. To be fair I'm including hp below 0 as they all had like mythic diehard or something, and were all mythic so double con, and huge con scores.


@Hogeyhead: Going to sleep immediately before being attacked probably wouldn't have helped there :D I blame the GM.

I would say spell slots are restored. Three (similar) reasons:
1) because it's in the text - don't overthink it,
2) specific overwrites general, and
3) it may not actually be 8 hours, but for all intents and purposes it counts as 8 hours.

But it could go either way.

FAQ'd.

Dark Archive

For me the interpretation is very very ambigous with the rules. In my interpretation you must to wait 24 hours to recover X (and you must to rest for 8 hours), with this power you only have to rest 1 hour (but you still need the 24 hours period)


Not the best example, given it is taken from an AP. This is merely food for thought (for myself as well). To me, this moment of Mythic Ascension seems to charge the PCs with the full benefits of an instant Resurgence.

From Wrath of the Righteous: The Worldwound Incursion

spoiler:

All debilitating conditions and wounds
are immediately healed as the PCs are restored in an instant
to full health. All expended spells are instantly restored and
all limited use per day abilities recharge. Any dead PCs are
restored to life as if by true resurrection,

Just more food for thought.

Dare we even open the can of worms associated with:

Legendary Hero (Su): At ioth tier, you have reached the
height of mortal p ower. You regain uses of your mythic
power at the rate of one use per hour, in addition to
completely refreshing your uses each day.


I think a lot of people don't understand what my point of view on this is.

I DO agree that this power refreshes spells.
I DO agree you only need one hour to do so.

I DON'T agree that you can cast every single spell you know, multiple times per day.

Letting wizards/sorcerors/etc. cast their full allotment of spells per day multipe times per day is a BAD idea.

We're letting the people who can bend reality, do so several more times per day.

I just don't think letting wizards triple or quadruple (or however many uses of mythic power they have) their highest level spell slots is what this power is supposed to do.

Just my opinion.


Liam Warner wrote:

D

Ryjinn so how do you account for the fact that it specifally states spells per day in the description of what it does allow but doesn't add "However this doesn't override the recent casting limit of 8 hours" in the section outlining that mythic powers aren't affected?

Because that is not how the rules work. It does what it says it does. It does not override any general rules it says it doesn't. If every ability that changed one thing had to list out EVERY SINGLE RULE it DOESN'T change each book would be too big to lift and too expensive to print for this company to stay in business.

This is not a case of specific overriding general. It does not provide a specific rule that overcomes the recent casting limit, just the time required to restore spells.

Hogey also misses the point of the ability with his hyperbole, at least in my eyes. It is not a "Rest, recover, move on with the day multiple times a day" ability. That's not a design space Paizo traditionally likes to encourage (the 15 minute adventuring day).

What it IS is a way for time sensitive Mythic quests to be possible once you've blown all your resources.

"We don't have time to rest for 8 hours! Lord Doom is going to destroy the world in 6!"

"Well we've been traveling for a while, if we rest for an hour and catch our breaths I'll be able to get most of my spells back. Enough to get us through this battle at least."

Remember, the recent casting limit is only 8 hours (not 24 as someone stated earlier). If you cast most of your spells early in the day, or even up to 7 hours ago, they can be recovered by rest.

This ability will never be useless unless you burned all your spells in the last half of the day, which is poor resource management.


bigrig107 wrote:

So you're saying, Hogeyhead, that the core class abilities of each class are secondary to the mythic power that EVERYONE gets at third tier?

Really?

I don't think mythic power is supposed to make your other abilities secondary, just like I don't think that this power is supposed to let you cast 12 different sets of your spells per day (rest one hour, cast everything in an hour, rest one hour, cast everything in an hour).

You're saying this allows wizards, sorcerors, etc. to cast their entire complement of spells, multiple times per day, and that's okay?

I don't think so.

but its ok for a barbarian to use this same cycle? really? in what world do you live that this is balanced? that basically equates to infinite rage rounds for a barbarian and static spells for a casters....how is that fair?


Shimesen wrote:
bigrig107 wrote:

So you're saying, Hogeyhead, that the core class abilities of each class are secondary to the mythic power that EVERYONE gets at third tier?

Really?

I don't think mythic power is supposed to make your other abilities secondary, just like I don't think that this power is supposed to let you cast 12 different sets of your spells per day (rest one hour, cast everything in an hour, rest one hour, cast everything in an hour).

You're saying this allows wizards, sorcerors, etc. to cast their entire complement of spells, multiple times per day, and that's okay?

I don't think so.

but its ok for a barbarian to use this same cycle? really? in what world do you live that this is balanced? that basically equates to infinite rage rounds for a barbarian and static spells for a casters....how is that fair?

Earlier, I stated that I think that anything on a "per-day" operating system (rage, bardic performance,etc.) needs that exact same restriction.

I never said I think barbarians and bards and whatever shouldn't have the "same cycle". Please stop putting words in my mouth.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So every caster should write down the hour and minute of the spells they cast to ensure that 8 hours have passed, just in case that hour of rest helps.
That view would only encourage the 15 minute adventure day (or have two 15 minute days)as typically it is a challenging fight or series of encounters that tax resources at an end of an adventurer's day, not the encounter that happened six hours ago.
I see very few scenarios where this helps casters unlike all other classes.


I have a question for those of you who say casters don't get their spells, or that they don't get their spells that they cast within 8 hours, and the same question for those of you who feel no power gets refreshed more than once per day even with this power:

What use is the power then?

Case 1 martials get their powers but casters don't. Half the party can't continue. Useless.

Case 2 You get 2 very strict cycles per day. Yay, what freedom! oh wait no our days just became 12 hours long instead of 24. RP maybe useful, mechanically useless.

Case 3 Once every 24h. You get your abilities back, but still need to sleep to avoid exaustion etc. How often will that realistically be useful? Never.

So please explain to me why this was put in the rules when as you describe it it is about as useful as a 3 legged horse, is it there just to piss people off?


Not every ability is designed to be the best thing for everyone.

It is also helpful to rest and let the Barbarian regain Rage or Paladin regain Smites in the middle of the day as needed. It lets them nova as required and still regain their abilities.

Your caster, frankly, should not be dumb enough to blow all his spells at once as a Tier 3 Mythic character.

Spells are the best ability in the game. Honestly it's almost too much to let them regain their spells ONCE this way, but the Ring of Sustenance already set that boat on fire, so this is an even more efficient way to do it.


The classes are designed to go through their powers at roughly the same rate, the only classes that would really really benefit from this are paladin, Magus and inquisitor. All this does is make the nova classes more nova-y. And you talk about balance. Oh and monks with ki (to a lesser extent).


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i think everyone here is forgetting something: Mythic in and of itself is OVERPOWERED ON PURPOSE! by taking the stance that this ability DOESNT allow a caster to use more spells in a day, you are asserting that you want less OP from mythic...thats stupid. the idea was to make PC's even more insane in power level, this does just that...


Not disagreeing with you BigRig, just using your post as a highlight example sir.

bigrig107 wrote:

I DO agree that this power refreshes spells.

I DO agree you only need one hour to do so.

I DON'T agree that you can cast every single spell you know, multiple times per day.

Letting wizards/sorcerors/etc. cast their full allotment of spells per day multipe times per day is a BAD idea.

We're letting the people who can bend reality, do so several more times per day.

This is agree with fully on principle. Given the debate going on currently, I am not going to judge or make any further assumptions upon the rules set to use.

bigrig107 wrote:

I just don't think letting wizards triple or quadruple (or however many uses of mythic power they have) their highest level spell slots is what this power is supposed to do.

Just my opinion.

As I put in bold, most here are thinking of Wizards almost exclusively it seems. Let's not forget that Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Witches, bard, etc. Spells per Day are ALSO under the purview of this power. Clerics can do some truly nasty damage as well any of those other casters, direct damage, death & destruction as well as reality alteration is not limited exclusively to the domain of the Wizard.

Shimesen wrote:
i think everyone here is forgetting something: Mythic in and of itself is OVERPOWERED ON PURPOSE! by taking the stance that this ability DOESN'T allow a caster to use more spells in a day, you are asserting that you want less OP from mythic...that's stupid. the idea was to make PC's even more insane in power level, this does just that...

100% agree. The rest is just figuring out how the Mythic overpower scale is intended to work for some facsimile of balance among equal classes of Mythic, Sir.

Rynjin wrote:

Not every ability is designed to be the best thing for everyone.

It is also helpful to rest and let the Barbarian regain Rage or Paladin regain Smites in the middle of the day as needed. It lets them nova as required and still regain their abilities.

Your caster, frankly, should not be dumb enough to blow all his spells at once as a Tier 3 Mythic character.

Spells are the best ability in the game. Honestly it's almost too much to let them regain their spells ONCE this way, but the Ring of Sustenance already set that boat on fire, so this is an even more efficient way to do it.

I do not have the link, but I've seen another topic concerning Mythic powers from a Designer & do know you are correct. The Designer did state not all powers are meant "to be the best thing for everyone."

Also, the bold is the biggest part of this that, to me, applies. Any caster 9especially one based off of Int or Wis) should be smart enough & have the common sense to not blow every last spell in their repertoire in a single encounter.


I did not mean to make it seem like I meant wizards only.

If you look at my other posts on this page, I actually stated that I believe that all other classes with "per day" mechanics should follow the same rule.

I also said:

Bigrig107 wrote:
Letting wizards/sorcerors/etc. cast their full allotment of spells per day multiple times per day is a BAD idea.


Honestly i think tracking what time of day you cast a spell is just way too much record keeping and feel that the intent is to allow dodging the recent spell limt.

So we spend a mythic power and a hour of rest to get our powers back including any spells i havent cast inthe past 8 hours i then spend an hour preparing the spells for the slots i regained so now i ask what about the spells i cast 6 hours ago do i get them back? If i do and thats 2 more spells so another half hour to prep for them now i get back from the fight we had at t-minus 5:45 so another 45 min of spell prep o god someone stop this madness anxd just let my special mythic super powers work as intended even though the dev forgot to call out on what page and line the normal rules i get to break were on


I agree with Rynjins reading of the RAW.


DrDeth wrote:
I agree with Rynjins reading of the RAW.

Stupid question. Can someone give me the exact terms for the acronyms RAW & RAI? Still a little new to the forums here & not up on all the acronym abbreviations.


Tyrannon wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
I agree with Rynjins reading of the RAW.
Stupid question. Can someone give me the exact terms for the acronyms RAW & RAI? Still a little new to the forums here & not up on all the acronym abbreviations.

RAW-->Rules As Written

RAI-->Rules As Intended.

Sometimes, RAI is used (incorrectly) to mean "whatever the poster wants the rules to say", but it normally refers to designer intent.


Tyrannon wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
I agree with Rynjins reading of the RAW.
Stupid question. Can someone give me the exact terms for the acronyms RAW & RAI? Still a little new to the forums here & not up on all the acronym abbreviations.

RAW - Rules as Written

RAI - Rules as intended

RAW is the letter of the law; RAI is the spirit of the law. Generally RAI are regarded as somewhat of house rules, so stuff like PFS are stuck with RAW, but otherwise, RAI is usually more important.


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This is ridiculous. The power clearly states that you regain spells. Any arguments to the contrary are inherently absurd and can be disregarded. I apologize to any of you who think this is a matter of debate and needs an FAQ.


Marthkus wrote:
This is ridiculous. The power clearly states that you regain spells. Any arguments to the contrary are inherently absurd and can be disregarded. I apologize to any of you who think this is a matter of debate and needs an FAQ.

Though I agree with you to a point, this is a little vague & I had thought it was clearly written. What I do agree with you fully, is that many topics are brought to this forum by people who seem to lack reading comprehension. I have seen a few threads that debated the application of the use of the word "Or". Something I would think was clearly written. Oh well, I can use my own judgement.

I will say, according to the various opinions listed here, however; this is a hot button issue that can quickly force a game session to fall into disarray with yet another rules debate for hours.

Unrelated: Thank you both 137ben & Tholomyes. That makes reading some of these other threads & posts a bit clearer.


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Marthkus wrote:
The power clearly states that you regain spells.

Indeed it does.

And nothing else.

No exception to the usual rules.

You can regain your spells after an hour at the end of the day, yes.

You cannot regain spells you have cast within the last 8 hours.


I just started the ap WotR and I too was under the impression that it meant starting over but I can see the others posters points too. I think one of the main rules snags is "counts as" which in math means equals and since pathfinder is a mathematical system then if 1 == 8 then why aren't you substituting it for all rules? To me it reads spend a mp and treat the rules for 8 hours as 1 hour. Why do I see it this way because there is precedence in the ring of sustenance which says 2 == 8 but only once a day. I feel it specifically calls out spellcasters because they have the extra rule and not the other's because they don't.

My other reason is because I honestly don't think it to be a problem. There are so many things to spend mp on that saving the mp to get spells back vs defeating the mythic threats in front of me is a no brainer. Alive and victorious is better than dead with full mp waiting to rest an hour to get my spells back.

One caveat is if you are not facing mythic foes it's totally over the top.


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Rynjin, I don't know why you're being so psycho-rigid about this. I've read the whole thread and it's sad to see you countering everyone's arguments because you don't want this to work.

Even if I agree with some of your points that by pure RAW it would not work (but it's still contested) it is clear that RAI casters could get their spells back. I also don't think that you have played a mythic campaign and actually now what the power level is in those settings.

Mythic adventures is a new book that is not sanctioned for PFS use, so DMs can actually use their common sense to make rulings based on the plethora of new rules introduced in this tome. It's time to stop being so stuck up about the exact wording of the mythic power and to realize how it is supposed to work.


Rynjin wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
The power clearly states that you regain spells.
Indeed it does.

True!

The rest of your post is incorrect. You are basically saying that the ability allows you to regain spells, but doesn't actually allow you to regain spells.

It's a contradiction.


Marthkus wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
The power clearly states that you regain spells.
Indeed it does.

True!

The rest of your post is incorrect. You are basically saying that the ability allows you to regain spells, but doesn't actually allow you to regain spells.

It's a contradiction.

I'm sorry, but you're not reading our posts correctly, and being quite rude while you're at it.

LET me say again, WE ARE SAYING THIS LETS YOU REGAIN SPELLS.
Any arguments to the contrary are inherently absurd and can be disregarded.

What we're saying DOESN'T happen is multiple resets of spells in one 24-hour period.

Please take the time to read our posts correctly. Thank you.


bigrig107 wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
The power clearly states that you regain spells.
Indeed it does.

True!

The rest of your post is incorrect. You are basically saying that the ability allows you to regain spells, but doesn't actually allow you to regain spells.

It's a contradiction.

I'm sorry, but you're not reading our posts correctly, and being quite rude while you're at it.

LET me say again, WE ARE SAYING THIS LETS YOU REGAIN SPELLS.
Any arguments to the contrary are inherently absurd and can be disregarded.

What we're saying DOESN'T happen is multiple resets of spells in one 24-hour period.

Please take the time to read our posts correctly. Thank you.

The ability says you regain spells. You guys are trying to say that in some cases the ability does not let you regain the uses of spells (saying you can't do it multiple times per day).

It's a contradiction.

It doesn't matter how you argue it, if the end result is a caster can't regain there spells per day from using a mythic point and resting 1 hour, then that argument is inherently wrong by contradicting with the RAW of the ability.


bigrig107 wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
The power clearly states that you regain spells.
Indeed it does.

True!

The rest of your post is incorrect. You are basically saying that the ability allows you to regain spells, but doesn't actually allow you to regain spells.

It's a contradiction.

I'm sorry, but you're not reading our posts correctly, and being quite rude while you're at it.

LET me say again, WE ARE SAYING THIS LETS YOU REGAIN SPELLS.
Any arguments to the contrary are inherently absurd and can be disregarded.

What we're saying DOESN'T happen is multiple resets of spells in one 24-hour period.

Please take the time to read our posts correctly. Thank you.

Just my .02$ but I've read up on the mythic stuff quite a bit, and having 500 spells a day won't mean anything against some of these monsters. There are some abilities that even standard characters get that make them immune to said effects unless they come from a mythic power/spell, monsters get this too and possibly more. What really matters the most here is the use of mythic points and mythic powers. If you're spending your incredibly valuable mythic points on resting 5 times a day to give you your full amount of spells back, you're shooting yourself in the foot, because then you'll only be able to make 3 or 4 of those spells mythic and capable of affecting a mythic monster. Assuming he doesn't pass whatever save anyway. Also, Bigrig, I think I've seen you post earlier stating you don't know how to do bold. you put []<---B (whatever text you want here) /B ------>[]


I felt as though this needed to be brought up since I've seen it seemingly stated otherwise a few times now. Spells & effects from a mythic source are mythic whether you spend mp on it or cast the mythic version. A fireball from a mythic caster is considered mythic and not subject to non-mythic immunities. You may substitute fireball for any spell or effect you like.

Edit: by non-mythic immunities I mean flat immunity to non-mythic versions not special quality immunities, which would apply unless noted.


Mythic Rules wrote:
In addition, by expending one use of mythic power and resting for 1 hour, you regain a number of hit points equal to half your full hit points (up to a maximum of your full hit points) and regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day (such as barbarian rage, bardic performance, spells per day, and so on)

Bolded line pretty much state that you regain regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day... such as... spells per day.

So, specifically, when you use this ability, you regain spells, even if you normally couldn't, doesn't matter the cause. You regain the spells even if you wouldn't normally be able to do it, be it because you didn't sleep enaugh, because you just casted them, or because a day isn't still passed. The rule makes no disctinction.


Dekalinder wrote:
Mythic Rules wrote:
In addition, by expending one use of mythic power and resting for 1 hour, you regain a number of hit points equal to half your full hit points (up to a maximum of your full hit points) and regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day (such as barbarian rage, bardic performance, spells per day, and so on)

Bolded line pretty much state that you regain regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day... such as... spells per day.

So, specifically, when you use this ability, you regain spells, even if you normally couldn't, doesn't matter the cause. You regain the spells even if you wouldn't normally be able to do it, be it because you didn't sleep enaugh, because you just casted them, or because a day isn't still passed. The rule makes no disctinction.

So because it doesn't say whether or not you overcome the general spell casting rule about resting more than once per day, it automatically means you can?

Remember, in that same passage:

Mythic Rules wrote:
This rest is treated as 8 hours of sleep for such abilities.

Now, 8 hours of sleep usually lets you regain one use of spell casting. In ONE 24-hour period.

If that one hour of mythic rest counts as 8 normal hours of sleep, then it follows all the same rules as the 8hours of sleep.
Including the one recharge in 24 hours part.


bigrig107 wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:
Mythic Rules wrote:
In addition, by expending one use of mythic power and resting for 1 hour, you regain a number of hit points equal to half your full hit points (up to a maximum of your full hit points) and regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day (such as barbarian rage, bardic performance, spells per day, and so on)

Bolded line pretty much state that you regain regain the use of any class features that are limited to a certain number of uses per day... such as... spells per day.

So, specifically, when you use this ability, you regain spells, even if you normally couldn't, doesn't matter the cause. You regain the spells even if you wouldn't normally be able to do it, be it because you didn't sleep enaugh, because you just casted them, or because a day isn't still passed. The rule makes no disctinction.

So because it doesn't say whether or not you overcome the general spell casting rule about resting more than once per day, it automatically means you can?

Remember, in that same passage:

Mythic Rules wrote:
This rest is treated as 8 hours of sleep for such abilities.

Now, 8 hours of sleep usually lets you regain one use of spell casting. In ONE 24-hour period.

If that one hour of mythic rest counts as 8 normal hours of sleep, then it follows all the same rules as the 8hours of sleep.
Including the one recharge in 24 hours part.

Now you are ignoring the words in the ability.

It's like saying a fighter with great cleave can only hit two opponents with a cleave, because the cleave feat says you can only cleave once.


No, Marhtkus, it's not like saying that.
Because Great Cleave specifically has words saying it doesn't work like the normal one attack with Cleave.

This power does not have words that say the specific overrides the general.
Therefore, it doesn't.


bigrig107 wrote:
This power does not have words that say the specific overrides the general.

It says you regain spells, therefore you regain spells.

Any general rules that would prevent this are irrelevant because ability specifically says what you can do.


Someone said wrote:

This power does not have words that say the specific overrides the general.

Therefore, it doesn't.

As far as I'm aware, any time their is a conflict specific rules always override general ones. It doesn't need to be explicitly called out over and over again. It may be nice when it does but it isn't necessary.


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Marthkus, as you seem to be ignoring, it says that one hour counts as eight.
There is no rule in the power saying that allows you to override the general rule.
There IS NO specific here. There just isn't!

Revel, it does need to be called out. If this power allows you to break any general rule, it needs to be stated. Clearly.

It clearly states that you can rest for one hour, and regain uses per day as if you had rested for eight hours. It does not state, clearly or not, that it allows you to break the general rule of the 24-hour time limit.


Faskill wrote:

Rynjin, I don't know why you're being so psycho-rigid about this. I've read the whole thread and it's sad to see you countering everyone's arguments because you don't want this to work.

Even if I agree with some of your points that by pure RAW it would not work (but it's still contested) it is clear that RAI casters could get their spells back. I also don't think that you have played a mythic campaign and actually now what the power level is in those settings.

Mythic adventures is a new book that is not sanctioned for PFS use, so DMs can actually use their common sense to make rulings based on the plethora of new rules introduced in this tome. It's time to stop being so stuck up about the exact wording of the mythic power and to realize how it is supposed to work.

I'm using my common sense. The ability says what it does.

It treats one hour of sleep as 8 for the purposes of recovering limited use abilities.

Nothing more.

I do not believe it is the RAI to allow casters to recover their spells multiple times each day. If that was the intent, it would have said so.

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am "psycho rigid", "stuck up", and "not using common sense". That's just rude.

Marthkus wrote:


The ability says you regain spells. You guys are trying to say that in some cases the ability does not let you regain the uses of spells (saying you can't do it multiple times per day).

It's a contradiction.

It doesn't matter how you argue it, if the end result is a caster can't regain there spells per day from using a mythic point and resting 1 hour, then that argument is inherently wrong by contradicting with the RAW of the ability.

It is not a contradiction at all. It makes no mention of overcoming the recent casting limit. Just because an ability does one thing does not mean it overcomes all tangential limitations.

Saying THAT is not using your common sense, since by that logic since CLW says it "cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level", but makes no mention about being able to heal people below -Con...it can.

Which is blatantly untrue, only Breath of Life functions that way.


bigrig107 wrote:

Marthkus, as you seem to be ignoring, it says that one hour counts as eight.

There is no rule in the power saying that allows you to override the general rule.
There IS NO specific here. There just isn't!

Revel, it does need to be called out. If this power allows you to break any general rule, it needs to be stated. Clearly.

It clearly states that you can rest for one hour, and regain uses per day as if you had rested for eight hours. It does not state, clearly or not, that it allows you to break the general rule of the 24-hour time limit.

This is about the most solid argument I've gathered from the whole thread. Everyone's stated some good points, but I feel this one hits the nail on the head.


Sindalla wrote:
bigrig107 wrote:

Marthkus, as you seem to be ignoring, it says that one hour counts as eight.

There is no rule in the power saying that allows you to override the general rule.
There IS NO specific here. There just isn't!

Revel, it does need to be called out. If this power allows you to break any general rule, it needs to be stated. Clearly.

It clearly states that you can rest for one hour, and regain uses per day as if you had rested for eight hours. It does not state, clearly or not, that it allows you to break the general rule of the 24-hour time limit.

This is about the most solid argument I've gathered from the whole thread. Everyone's stated some good points, but I feel this one hits the nail on the head.

Thank you, Sindalla :)

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