I'm going to be running a game for some friends in the near future and one of my players asked if they could use the Beguiler class from PHB2. I've had a lot of fun with this class in the past and wanted to give it a bit of a flavour boost to bring it more inline with Pathfinder classes. My first draft of the conversion can be found here. After discussing that with a few people I've come up with an updated draft, changes are highlighted in yellow:
Pathfinder Beguiler Conversion
I was hoping to get some comments and criticism on the class. What did I get right? What could be made better?
I'm having mixed feelings about the Orders for a couple reasons. One, while I admit to not having read all of them in depth, 1st level death attacks raise red flags with me. Also the choices for each order seem a bit random and without a clear guiding principle. Finally, while I get that the orders are there to provide the player with ways to customize his character, the combination of the Cant and the order codes of conduct and alignment restrictions seems to imply a degree of structure that seems inappropriate to the class.
I'm having mixed feelings about the Orders for a couple reasons. One, while I admit to not having read all of them in depth, 1st level death attacks raise red flags with me.
While level 1 is early for a death attack, it is fairly constrained for the first five levels. In order to make a death attack for levels 1-5 the beguiler would need to spend a full minute studying the target before launching the attack from melee; this means this would essentially be limited to an out of combat action and couldn't be used on groups of enemies. The fact that it expends a spell slot also acts as a limiting factor. Once the beguiler reaches 6th level it advances to mimic the assassin PRC death attack. I suppose I could only give it the paralyze option for levels 1-5 if it was still a concern.
Ulfsarkar wrote:
Also the choices for each order seem a bit random and without a clear guiding principle.
The orders were meant to touch on the specific strengths of beguilers, but wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list, much like the sorcerer bloodlines from the core rulebook. The apostasies were a little random, but I wanted to include an option for players who wanted to work outside of a guild structure.
Ulfsarkar wrote:
Finally, while I get that the orders are there to provide the player with ways to customize his character, the combination of the Cant and the order codes of conduct and alignment restrictions seems to imply a degree of structure that seems inappropriate to the class.
The Int based casting of the beguiler, to me, really represents studied and practiced magic as opposed to the raw natuaral talent of a sorcerer's Cha based casting. That kind of training lends itself strongly to a guild type structure as it will require at the very least a master-apprenticeship relationship and could quite easily lead to an organized academy type of training. Furthermore, all sorts of brigands (thieves, assassins, thugs, etc.) form organized guilds, particularly in large urban centers. As such I don't think it's that inappropriate for a roguish caster class to have this kind of hierarchy.
Thanks for your interest and comments, I really appreciate them.
I guess the minutes part of the study didn't register in my head. That changes things considerably. Combine that with waiting to 6 for an actual kill effect and that takes care of my objections on that front.
On the issues of Orders and cant, it's more of the fact that they are practically mandated. I mean rogues aren't mechanically mandated to be in guilds. I can certainly see that many beguilers would join thieves guilds(seems that could be a very profitable relationship for both parties). Both the Beguiler and the Duskblade were kinda unique in being spontaneous INT casters in 3.5
On the issues of Orders and cant, it's more of the fact that they are practically mandated. I mean rogues aren't mechanically mandated to be in guilds. I can certainly see that many beguilers would join thieves guilds(seems that could be a very profitable relationship for both parties). Both the Beguiler and the Duskblade were kinda unique in being spontaneous INT casters in 3.5
I can appreciate that. I think I could potentially bridge the separation with a class archetype that operates outside of the guild/apostasy framework.
Class Archetype:
Some beguilers find that magic comes to them through innate magical ability rather than practiced training. These beguilers rarely have the patience to get involved with the structure found in most guilds and apostasies, as such they tend to strike out on their own and form their allegiances as individuals.
Theurgic Brigand
A theurgic brigand could have made her way in the world as a sorcerer, but felt a stronger pull to a rougher life. She supplements her magical abilities with a suite of roguish talents to help her survive of the rough streets of any urban center.
Arcane Inborn: A theurgic brigand looks within to natural talent for her magical abilities rather than studious training. As such, she uses her Charisma score and modifier (rather than Intelligence) to determine the spells she can cast, the Difficulty Class for her spells’ saving throws and her allotment of bonus spells.
Class Skills: A theurgic brigand adds Craft, Intimidate and Linguistics to her class skills.
Brigand Talents: As a beguiler gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 1st level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a beguiler gains one brigand talent. A beguiler cannot select and individual talent more than once, unless otherwise noted. This ability replaces order patronage (order powers). Talents marked with † add effects to a beguiler's cloaked casting ability. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual spell and can only be applied to one target affected by the spell (if the chosen target is not affected by the spell, the use of the talent is wasted); the decision of which talent is applied and which enemy is targeted must be made before the spell is cast.
Charmer (Ex): Once per day, the beguiler can roll two dice while making a Diplomacy check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Diplomacy check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Coax Information (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy in place of Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward her.
Combat Swipe: A beguiler who selects this talent gains Improved Steal as a bonus feat.
Cunning Trigger (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use a swift action to set off any trap within 30 feet that she constructed.
Esoteric Scholar (Ex): Once a day, a beguiler with this talent may attempt a Knowledge check, even when she is not trained in that Knowledge skill.
Fast Fingers (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this talent can roll two dice while making a Sleight of Hand check and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Sleight of Hand check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Fast Picks (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use the Disable Device skill to attempt to open a lock as a standard action instead of a full-round action.
Fast Stealth (Ex): This ability allows a beguiler to move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Hard to Fool (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this talent can roll two dice while making a Sense Motive check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Sense Motive check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Honeyed Words (Ex): Once per day, the beguiler can roll two dice while making a Bluff check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Bluff check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every five beguiler levels she possesses.
Magic Trick: A beguiler that selects this talent gains a bonus metamagic feat. She may gain this special ability multiple times.
Resiliency (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the beguiler's level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when she is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the beguiler's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal.
Scoundrel's Crawl (Ex): While prone, a begiler with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A beguiler with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling.
Slicing Spell† (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can cause a single living opponent to bleed when successfully using her cloaked casting ability. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round per level of the spell (e.g., a 4th level spell equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. A foe targeted by this ability may not be targeted again for one day. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.
Stand Up (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes attacks of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a beguiler can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if she is wearing light armour or no armour. A helpless beguiler does not gain the benefit of evasion. This ability replaces charlatan’s cant.
Stolen Knowledge (Ex): At 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can attempt to learn a new spell by fooling a local bard into believing that she is seeking an apprenticeship. She may select any spell from the bard spell list and, upon passing a Bluff check (DC 10 + the spell’s level), add it to her own. This spell can be of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell she already knows. Once a new spell is learned, it is forever added to her spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the beguiler spell list. This ability replaces order patronage (order spells).
Advanced Talents: At 9th level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a brigand talent.
Another Day (Ex): Once per day, when the beguiler would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by a melee attack, she can take a 5-foot step as an immediate action. If the movement takes her out of the reach of the attack, she takes no damage from the attack. The beguiler is staggered for 1 round on her next turn.
Entangling Spell† (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can entangle a single target of her cloaked casting ability. If the beguiler’s spell successfully affects the target, he cannot take a 5-foot step until the beginning of the beguiler's next turn.
Familiar (Ex): A beguiler with this talent gains a familiar as the familiar option of the wizard's arcane bond class feature. This ability functions exactly like that part of the class feature.
Fast Tumble (Ex): When a beguiler with this talent uses Acrobatics to move at full speed through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity, the DC of the Acrobatics check does not increase by 10.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This works like evasion, except that while the beguiler still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless beguiler does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Skill Mastery: The beguiler becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for skill mastery to apply to each time.
Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the beguiler's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a beguiler with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.
Weapon Snatcher (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can make a Sleight of Hand check in place of a combat maneuver check when attempting to disarm an opponent.
Theurgic Mastery (Su): At 20th level, a beguiler’s exposure to raw arcane power gives her significant resistance. She gains DR 10/cold iron, and gains SR equal to 6 + her beguiler level. This ability replaces order patronage (order mastery).
I really like the look of this conversion! I've been looking for a pathfinder beguiler, but so many of them are so bland... either they just copy the beguiler class straight out of the players handbook or just add a random assortment of rogue tallents to power it up. The orders, and especially the apostates, gives the class some character and oomph! I'd like it more if the powers were more unique to the beguiler's powers, they seem really similar to sorcerer bloodlines. The unseen hand order seems a little underwhelming since all of it's powers seem to be based on the assassin's death attack (with the beguiler's magic it would be better to make an enemy helpless with spells and use a coup de grace).
I disagree with Ulfsarkar about the guild aspect of this class being inappropriate. Ertw seems to have a pretty consistent picture of the way the guild relates to the class and even has apostates for those not interested in a guild. I'm also not sure why we should be concerned about getting a watered-down version of the assassin's death attack at level 1. As I mentioned above, with access to spells like color spray at level 1 it makes much more sense to incapacitate enemies with magic and then coup de grace with a scythe while they're helpless. The fact that the beguiler would have to spend a spell casting to make the death attack renders it even less useful.
I'm also not crazy about the brigand archetype simply because it seems like a lot of other beguiler conversions, just adding rogue tallents to the beguiler class, but I do like the idea of gaining access to bard spells (it provides new and interesting options for compulsion and charm spells).
I really like the look of this conversion! I've been looking for a pathfinder beguiler, but so many of them are so bland... either they just copy the beguiler class straight out of the players handbook or just add a random assortment of rogue tallents to power it up. The orders, and especially the apostates, gives the class some character and oomph! I'd like it more if the powers were more unique to the beguiler's powers, they seem really similar to sorcerer bloodlines. The unseen hand order seems a little underwhelming since all of it's powers seem to be based on the assassin's death attack (with the beguiler's magic it would be better to make an enemy helpless with spells and use a coup de grace).
Thanks for your interest and kind words. I was also disappointed by the existing conversions out there. I built the orders around the sorcerer bloodlines since it gave me a quick and balanced framework to build around. I've heard that the assassin's death attack was lackluster, but it still seems to me like the most balanced death-type attack with that early entry. If you had any suggestions on how to improve it, I'd love to hear them.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I disagree with Ulfsarkar about the guild aspect of this class being inappropriate. Ertw seems to have a pretty consistent picture of the way the guild relates to the class and even has apostates for those not interested in a guild. I'm also not sure why we should be concerned about getting a watered-down version of the assassin's death attack at level 1. As I mentioned above, with access to spells like color spray at level 1 it makes much more sense to incapacitate enemies with magic and then coup de grace with a scythe while they're helpless. The fact that the beguiler would have to spend a spell casting to make the death attack renders it even less useful.
I'm also not crazy about the brigand archetype simply because it seems like a lot of other beguiler conversions, just adding rogue tallents to the beguiler class, but I do like the idea of gaining access to bard spells (it provides new and interesting options for compulsion and charm spells).
I can understand Ulfsarkar's point of view with the guilds/apostasies; not all beguilers might be trained within a rigid framework. The addition of talents to the archetype was to make a beguiler who was more of a street-wise, self-taught character. I've been toying with the idea of adding bard spells to the order spell ability too, possibly including a bonus school/descriptor for each specific order/apostasy to expand their toolbox a little more.
The death attack could be made better by concentrating on the paralyze-CDG combo.
The level 1 power substitutes a spell slot for a paralysis effect (I'd leave out the studying time since you're essentially making it a spontaneous heightened hold person cast).
The level 7 power allows you to make a CDG as a standard action (maybe limit to 3x per day).
The level 14 power acts like the current level 7 power, allowing you to paralyze and CDG without notice (one stealth check for each, no two handed weapons).
The level 20 power acts the same, but applies to one CDG attack per day.
The death attack could be made better by concentrating on the paralyze-CDG combo.
The level 1 power substitutes a spell slot for a paralysis effect (I'd leave out the studying time since you're essentially making it a spontaneous heightened hold person cast).
The level 7 power allows you to make a CDG as a standard action (maybe limit to 3x per day).
The level 14 power acts like the current level 7 power, allowing you to paralyze and CDG without notice (one stealth check for each, no two handed weapons).
The level 20 power acts the same, but applies to one CDG attack per day.
What do you think about this:
Order of the Unseen Hand:
Paralyzing Strike (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can make a melee touch attack against a foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) as a standard action that causes a living creaturee to become paralyzed for 1d4 rounds + 1 for every two beguiler levels she possesses. A beguiler can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier.
At 9th level, a beguiler may instead activate this ability through a ranged touch attack with as long as she is within 30 ft. of her target.
At 12th level, a beguiler is able to use this ability as a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity three times per day.
Death Blow (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler can perform coup de grace against a helpless defender as a standard action. Doing this still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Quiet Death (Ex): At 13th level, whenever a beguiler kills a creature with a coup de grace during a surprise round, she can also make a Stealth check, opposed by Perception checks of those in the vicinity to prevent them from identifying her as the assailant. If the beguiler uses a one-handed or ranged weapon for the coup de grace, she suffers a -5 penalty to her check. This ability cannot be used with two-handed melee weapons. If successful, those nearby might not even notice that the target is dead for a few moments, allowing the beguiler to avoid detection.
Order Mastery (Su): At 20th level an unseen hand beguiler is granted the title master and gains the ability to cause her target's body to crumble to dust after making a successful coup de grace. This prevents raise dead and resurrection (although true resurrection works as normal). The beguiler must declare the use of this ability before the attack is made. If the target survives the damage and successfully saves against death, this ability is wasted with no effect. The beguiler can use this ability once per day.
I like the paralyzing strike approach, it builds on similar abilities in the other orders and makes good use of the surprise casting ability! Is there a particular reason that you're holding the ranged attack option back until level 9? It seems like the mechanic might work decently from 1st level since ranged CDG attacks are permitted from the start. Quiet death looks really effective now since you can use the swift action paralyzing strike+standard action CDG combo to kill in 1 round, but not over powered since you've limited it to 3/day. I wonder if the no two-handed limitation might work better by applying it to death blow instead of quiet death... a bigger weapon would take longer to land that killing blow. All in all, I think these changes make the unseen hand order a lot more useful and quite interesting.
Is there a particular reason that you're holding the ranged attack option back until level 9?
The ranged touch attack variation is introduced at level 9 because that's when the surprise casting ability allows her to feint at range.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I wonder if the no two-handed limitation might work better by applying it to death blow instead of quiet death... a bigger weapon would take longer to land that killing blow.
The death blow ability is based on the 3.5 feat of the same name. It's meant to represent increased facility for knowing where to strike a fatal blow, the killing blow itself takes the same time. After all, most other attacks with a scythe (to borrow your earlier example) take the same standard action as an attack with a dagger.
I've reworked the Order of the Arcane Hand's powers to make it a little more distinct from the Rakshasa bloodline.
Order of the Arcane Hand:
Order Powers: An arcane hand beguiler is a master of magic, she uses this proficiency to empower her spells and protect them from outside disruption.
Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler gains the wizard’s arcane bond class feature. She must immediately choose between a familiar or bonded object. Once she makes this choice it is permanent and cannot be changed.
False Theurgy (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler may use a swift action to adjust the verbal and somatic components of her next spell to mimic those of another spell of the same level. Any creature using Spellcraft or any other means to identify the spell she is casting believes it to be the other spell instead.
This trick renders her spell immune to the normal method of counterspelling, though dispel magic or a similar effect still works normally. Once the spell takes effect, it can be identified and dealt with normally.
Hide Aura (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler can conceal herself from prying magic. This ability acts like a constant nondetection spell cast upon the beguiler. She can end or restore this protection as a move action.
Order Mastery (Ex): At 20th level an arcane hand beguiler is granted the title master and her body surges with arcane power. She can add any metamagic feats that she knows to her spells without increasing their casting time, although she must still expend higher-level spell slots. Whenever she uses magic items that require charges, she can instead expend spell slots to power the item. For every three levels of spell slots that she expends, the magic item consumes one less charge.
I'm loving the changes for the arcane hand order. The arcane bond makes them more like other caster classes than the other orders. False theurgy makes them a lot more practical when they're pitted against other casters.
It gives the orders a little more depth to the orders and makes them more situational. The arcane hand is best if you'll be dealing with other casters often, silent foot is best if you need to sneak around guards, unseen hand is best if you need to assassinate targets and wandering heart is best if you need to bend others to your will.
Are you thinking about fluffing out the powers of the other orders to make them more unique? I think wandering heart is already pretty unique, not based on any specific sorcerer bloodline, but a few of the others could use small changes (one or two powers) to make them more unique.
Are you thinking about fluffing out the powers of the other orders to make them more unique? I think wandering heart is already pretty unique, not based on any specific sorcerer bloodline, but a few of the others could use small changes (one or two powers) to make them more unique.
I'm currently working out a few ideas for the silent foot, restless mind and shambling bones beguilers. I just got off work, but I might be able to post something more later tonight.
Here are reworks for silent foot, restless mind and shambling bones beguilers. All changes are noted by ooc formatting.
Order of the Silent Foot:
Order Powers: A silent foot beguiler infuses her mastery of magic with the essence of shadow.
Shadow’s Kin (Su): At 1st level, a beguiler can magically change her appearance to look as if she were little more than an area of shadow that fills the beguiler’s space for a number of rounds equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier per day. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This ability works like invisibility, her physical form still exists and she is not incorporeal—only her appearance changes.
Night Eye (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler gains darkvision 60 feet. If she already possesses darkvision, its range in increased by 60 feet.
Enveloping Darkness (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler may create an area of deeper darkness that she can see through without penalty. All creatures except for her are entangled within this darkness unless using freedom of movement or a similar effect. A beguiler may use this ability once per day.
Order Mastery (Su): At 20th level a silent foot beguiler is granted the title master and gains the ability to see perfectly in natural or magical darkness. When she casts the shades spell, her creations gain the benefits of the Augment Summoning feat.
Apostasy of the Restless Mind:
Apostasy Powers: A restless mind beguiler learns to manipulate the dreamscape of others and even travel there herself.
Lullaby (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can use lullaby as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. This effect lasts for 1 minute and does not require concentration. The penalty on saves versus sleep effects increases to -4.
Dreamshaper (Sp): At 7th level, a beguiler can manipulate the dreamscape of others, drawing forth or tampering with their subconscious minds. This power allows her to tamper with the target’s memories as if using modify memory, or she may ask questions as if using speak with dead upon a corpse. A successful Will save negates the effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier, with further modifiers as the nightmare spell. She can use this ability once per day at 8th level. At 16th level she can use this ability twice per day, and at 20th, three times per day.
Dreaming Puppet (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler can take control of the physical body of a sleeping creature for one hour for every two beguiler levels she possesses. In order to possess a body, the beguiler must name the subject or identify him by some title that leaves no doubt to his identity. Attempting to possess a body is a full-round action. It is blocked by protection from evil or a similar ward or if the subject succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the beguiler’s level + her Intelligence modifier). Failure to take over the host immediately wakes him immediately and he automatically succeeds on further saving throws if the beguiler attempts to possess its body again.
If she is successful, the beguiler enters a trance and appears in her target’s dream. So long as she remains in his dream, he is trapped in the dreamscape. The subject is aware of the beguiler in his dream, and can identify her if he knows her personally. The beguiler sees the world through the eyes of the subject’s physical form and controls his body as per dominate monster. Unlike dominate monster, the subject cannot resist harmful instructions and is not granted additional saving throws for instructions against his nature. The subject can be roused from his sleep by his allies as a standard action which ends the beguiler’s control of his body. Once the control ends, the subject awakens and becomes aware of what his body has done while asleep, though these memories are dreamlike and not entirely clear. Creatures which don't sleep, don't dream, or are otherwise immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities are immune to this ability.
If the subject is awake when the beguiler attempts to possess him, she can choose to wake up (wasting the ability with no effect) or remain in the trance until he goes to sleep, then enter his dream and dominate him as normal. While the beguiler is in the trance she is unaware of her own surroundings or of the activities around her. She is defenceless both physically and mentally (always failing any saving throw) while in the trance. If the beguiler is disturbed or awakened during the trance, her control of the subject is ended.
This ability carries an element of risk for the beguiler. If the subject exceeds the required Will save by 10 or more the beguiler’s soul becomes lost in the dreamscape, unable to easily return to her own body. In order to return to her body, she must cast a planar traveling spell, find her way through the realm of dreams, or be rescued. A beguiler may use this spell-like ability once per day.
Arch Apostasy (Ex): At 20th level an unseen hand beguiler is granted the title arch apostate and gains the ability to drift into the dream world, fading from the world around her. She no longer risks being trapped in the dreamscape when using the dreaming puppet ability. She can also become incorporeal for 1 minute per beguiler level. She gains the incorporeal subtype and takes only half damage from corporeal magical attacks (she takes no damage from nonmagical weapons and objects). Her spells deal only half damage to corporeal creatures, but spells and abilities that do not deal damage function normally. The duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.
Apostasy of the Shambling Bones:
Apostasy Powers: A shambling bones beguiler delves deeper into the dark arts of necromancy as she lusts to unlock the secret of immortality.
Grave Touch (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can make a melee touch attack against a foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) as a standard action that causes a living creature to become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her beguiler level (minimum 1). If she touches a shaken creature with this ability, it becomes frightened for 1 round if it has fewer Hit Dice than her beguiler level. She can use spectral hand to deliver this attack from a distance if she knows the spell. A beguiler can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier.
Grasp of Death (Sp): At 7th level, a beguiler can cause a swarm of skeletal arms to burst from the ground to rip and tear at her foes. The skeletal arms erupt from the ground in a 20-foot-radius burst. Anyone in this area takes 1d6 points of slashing damage per beguiler level. Those caught in the area receive a Reflex save for half damage. Those who fail the save are unable to move for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier. The skeletal arms disappear after 1 round. The arms must burst up from a solid surface. She can use this ability once per day at 7th level. At 14th level she can use this ability twice per day, and at 20th, three times per day. This power has a range of 60 feet.
Enervating Touch (Su): At 13th level, a beguiler can bestow negative levels when she uses her grave touch attack as a swift action. Each day, she can bestow a total number of negative levels equal to one-half her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier.
Beginning at 17th level, the number of negative levels a beguiler can bestow per day increases to her class level.
Arch Apostasy (Ex): At 20th level an unseen hand beguiler is granted the title arch apostate, her body begins to rot and undead see her as one of them. She gains immunity to cold, nonleathal damage, paralysis, and sleep. She also gains DR 5/—. Unintelligent undead do not notice her unless she attacks them. She receives a +4 morale bonus on saving throws made against spells and spell-like abilities cast by undead.
Silent foot looks great, a minor stealth option seems more fitting for their flavor than a blasting ability.
Shambling bones has some interesting changes. I'm not sure how they're supposed to gain access to spectral hand unless their bonus spells have changed. The enervating touch is pretty neat, it fits with a theme of them slowly becoming like an undead as they level. It also cuts down on repetition as their incorporeal ability was very similar to that of the restless mind.
I think the restless mind change is the best part of this update. There's finally something that links back to the way that their magic was too dangerous. I think that dreaming puppet might be improved a little bit by making it more like magic jar than dominate monster. Since the beguiler is essentially assuming direct control of the target, they should be more than just a mindless creature (as the sense motive check implies). The beguiler should be able to bluff/intimidate/diplomacy their way past any allies of the possessed creature.
I was always of the opinion that Archaeologist Bard was a sort of comparable character to a Beguiler. Yes, there isn't full spell progression and it's Bard lists but the casting /rogue' theme is there.
Interesting anyway, shall read and consider.
Shambling bones has some interesting changes. I'm not sure how they're supposed to gain access to spectral hand unless their bonus spells have changed.
I'm working on a system to give each order/apostasy a bonus school or spell descriptor to add to the list of spells they can independently learn. Necromancy was a no-brainer for shambling bones, but I'm trying to figure something that works thematically for all of them before posting them.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I think the restless mind change is the best part of this update. There's finally something that links back to the way that their magic was too dangerous. I think that dreaming puppet might be improved a little bit by making it more like magic jar than dominate monster. Since the beguiler is essentially assuming direct control of the target, they should be more than just a mindless creature (as the sense motive check implies). The beguiler should be able to bluff/intimidate/diplomacy their way past any allies of the possessed creature.
I like your suggestion about magic jar, it's something I'll have to consider. I'm thinking that the dreaming puppet ability might be a little bit too powerful, so I might roll back the requirement to make a save to prevent self-destructive behaviour. The ability has potential to be very powerful in the hands of highly imaginative players.
The case that I was thinking of when I framed the power was using it to enter the dreams of the captain of the guard who is charged with protecting the maguffin from the players. It's kind of interesting to think about the two paths the ability could take. With dominate person, the captain would still have his knowledge (things like passwords, layouts, etc.), but would be a kind of sleep-walking zombie and might be found out by the guards he passes. With magic jar, the beguiler would have to explore herself, locate the maguffin and bluff her way past guards. I'm not sure whether I like one over the other.
If I was going the magic jar route, I'd have to power it down a little. I'd want to prevent the beguiler from using any of her class features/spells while possessing the target. She'd be limited to her mental skills (which she excels at), her target's physical skills and maybe his extraordinary abilities that are shared by both the beguiler and her target. I'll definitely have to think about that suggestion.
strayshift wrote:
I was always of the opinion that Archaeologist Bard was a sort of comparable character to a Beguiler. Yes, there isn't full spell progression and it's Bard lists but the casting /rogue' theme is there.
Interesting anyway, shall read and consider.
Thanks for your interest. I agree that the wide variety of archetypes in pathfinder could make something that works similarly to the beguiler, but they still lack the overall feel of the beguiler class. Abilities like silent casting give the beguiler a place on the battlefield manipulating her foes, while her spells and skills give her incredible utility outside of combat. The archaeologist bard comes close to this, yes, but lack of a full spell progression pulls it away from the heart of combat at high level where powerful illusions and enchantments can keep a beguiler fighting. I look forward to your comments.
Casting in armor, 9 level casting, and 6 skill points per level, two good saves? Seems a little heavy. I might lower skill points to 4, get rid of trapfinding, disable device, and perceptions, then replace it with an ability to boost charisma skills and another to see through disguises and illusions.
i think the beguiler is the of the more powerful classes out there, and probably doesn't need a boost. For one thing, it gets its whole spell list as spells known- and it's a damn good list. Secondly, it's an int based caster, with 6 skill points a level. It will have a TON of skills. It's good to go. It really doesn't need conversion IMO. Just play it out of the box.
My experience with beguilers from 3.5 actually tended to put them on a lower footing than wizards or sorcerers. They might have been able to hold their own at very low levels, but those advantages didn't really hold out. Armored casting really became obsolete around level 5 or 6 when a single casting of mage armor would last for most or all of the day's adventuring session. Magic armor was fairly easily matched for high level play by bracers of armor.
Sure they get plenty of skills, but they still need to branch out beyond their casting ability into dex and cha to use them effectively. Honestly, the cha based casting from the archetype Ertw posted above seems more synergistic and powerful than the standard int based casting.
Yes, they do get 9 level casting with a fully known spell list, but these spells are EXTREMELY limited. They don't get many damage spells, as those they do get are all nonlethal. Many of their spells are repetitive upgrades in the charm->hold->dominate chain for people and monsters (and then their mass equivalents). At low levels they lack a lot of the spells that a sorcerer or wizard finds consistently useful to deal damage like magic missile or fireball. They don't get mobility spells like fly to keep themselves out of harms way. They don't get buffs to keep themselves and their party in top shape. At high levels they lag even farther behind without access to the powerful conjuration, evocation or transmutation spells that make casters such a force to be reckoned with. Of their 9th level spells only time stop would fall into what I'd consider a top tier spell... and even then a sorcerer or wizard usually uses that time to summon help in a fight (which a beguiler can't do) or rebuff the party (which he can't do either) or go to town with delayed fireballs, all the beguiler can do is use the spell to flee. It's still useful, but nowhere near as punishing or handy as it is in the sorcerer or wizard's hands.
What the beguiler does best is usually relegated to outside of combat. He can lie, trick or bewitch his foes so he didn't need to fight them. Even then his toolbox is poor when compared to a rogue (for skills) or wizard/sorcerer (for magic). This strength is even weaker when you consider how many high level monsters are outright immune to mind effecting spells and how common true seeing becomes.
The beguiler is a handyman with one tool in his toolbox (a wrench) and whenever he comes up against a problem that's not a bolt, he's pretty stumped. A smart DM could easily counter the strength of a beguiler whereas the breadth of a wizard or sorcerer make them much more powerful. Despite these weaknesses, I still had lots of fun playing beguilers in 3.5, probably because my DM let me have fun with it. This conversion gives the beguiler a little bit of a power up which still probably leaves it behind the PF sorcerer, but with the new powers Ertw has been working on, the order structure and the unique language it gives the class more crunch, fluff and flavor to stand in the PF universe.
Casting in armor, 9 level casting, and 6 skill points per level, two good saves? Seems a little heavy. I might lower skill points to 4, get rid of trapfinding, disable device, and perceptions, then replace it with an ability to boost charisma skills and another to see through disguises and illusions.
Just my opinion.
Robert Carter 58 wrote:
i think the beguiler is the of the more powerful classes out there, and probably doesn't need a boost. For one thing, it gets its whole spell list as spells known- and it's a damn good list. Secondly, it's an int based caster, with 6 skill points a level. It will have a TON of skills. It's good to go. It really doesn't need conversion IMO. Just play it out of the box.
Penumbral Shadow hit on quite a few of the points I was going to make about how the beguiler stacks up to the sorcerer in response to these two posts. A lot of the beguiler's power boils down to her GM and the creativity of her player which is compounded by the fact that she's such a specialist. Aside from the orders/apostasies, the only other major changes I've made was the upgrade of the hit die (to match the fact that the 3.5 beguiler had a HD one level higher than core casters) and the addition of a good reflex save (that was because I felt it better reflected the flavour of the class).
Another comparison that could be drawn is with a cleric of Calistria. By taking the charm and trickery domains, she would end up with most of the beguiler's most useful illusion and enchantment spells (as well as spells from the cleric list beguilers don't get like command and geas). She has better armour proficiency (with no arcane failure), better weapon proficiency, the average BAB, two good saves and 9 level casting with a much less restricted spell list. Without the orders, the only advantages the 3.5 beguiler has are one extra spell at each spell level, four more skills per level and the surprise/cloaked casting combo. I really don't think that the beguiler as a direct-from-3.5 conversion would be anywhere close to such a cleric or an illusion/enchantment focused sorcerer or wizard in terms of power.
Dreaming Puppet (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler can enter the dreamscape for one hour for every two beguiler levels she possesses once per day. While in the dreamscape she can attempt to take control of the physical body of a sleeping creature. If the beguiler can name the subject or identify him by some title that leaves no doubt to his identity she may attempt to possess his body, otherwise she must spend 1d4+1 hours searching for him in the dreamscape. If the subject is awake when the beguiler attempts to possess him, she can chose to exit the dreamscape (wasting the ability with no effect) or remain in the dreamscape until he goes to sleep.
While the beguiler is in the dreamscape or controling her subject, her body enters a trance-like state. She is unaware of her own surroundings or of the activities around her. She is defenceless both physically and mentally (always failing any saving throw) while in the trace. If the beguiler is distrubed or awakened during the trace, her control of the subject is ended.
Attempting to possess a body is a full-round action. It is blocked by protection from evil or a similar ward or if the subject succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the beguiler's level + her Intelligence modifier). Failure to take over the host wakes him immediately and he automatically succeeds on further saving throws if the beguiler attempts to possess its body again. Creatures which don't sleep, don't dream, or are otherwise immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities are immune to this ability.
This ability carries an element of risk for the beguiler. If the subject exceeds the required Will save by 10 or more the beguiler's soul becomes lost in the dreamscape, unable to easily return to her own body. In order to return to her body, she must cast a planar traveling spell, be rescued, or spend 1d3 hours travelling through the realm of dreams to find an exit (even if this exceeds the normal duration of this ability). When she is able to return to her body, she is fatigued until she is able to rest again.
If the beguiler succeeds in possessing her target's body, she appears in his dream preventing his free movement about the dreamscape. The subject is aware of the beguiler and, upon waking, can identify her if he knows her personally. The beguiler's mind siezes control of the subject's physical form and controls his body as the spell magic jar. She does not gain any special access to his memories or knowledge of any security measures in the vicinity. The subject can be awakened by a loud noise, a sudden drop, upon taking any form of damage, or by his allies rousing him as a standard action; this breaks a beguiler's control. The beguiler can choose to release her control over the subject as a full-round action requiring concentration.
Once the beguiler's control over her subject is broken, her daily use of this ability ends and her subject awakens suddenly. He is aware of what his body has done while asleep, though these memories are dreamlike and not entirely clear. A spiritual link remains between both beguiler and subject for 24 hours following the end of her control; any damage received by one party is also visited upon the other as nonlethal damage. Furthermore, if one party dies before this period is over, the living party receives an amount of temporary negative levels equal to 1/4 the dead party's HD.
I like the feel of the magic jar version, it seems more like what I'd expect from a beguiler. I don't really see what purpose the lasting bond between beguiler and victim serves, though.
Decided to make the level 7 power of the wandering heart order a little more interesting and put those bonus skills to work:
Enchanted Casting:
Enchanted Casting (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler can attempt to disguise her spellcasting. As part of the action used to cast an enchantment spell, she makes a Perform (dance) check to disguise somatic spell components and a Perform (sing) check to disguise verbal spell components opposed by the Perception checks of onlookers. If she is successful, an observer can’t tell that she’s casting a spell. This permits her to apply all the bonuses afforded to her by her cloaked casting ability to this spell.
Very cool idea. It might end up being a tad skill intensive to keep high ranks two perform skills in practice, but it has a good pay off. It could also give a lot of depth to a character that is built around secretly charming people into doing her bidding.
Very cool idea. It might end up being a tad skill intensive to keep high ranks two perform skills in practice, but it has a good pay off. It could also give a lot of depth to a character that is built around secretly charming people into doing her bidding.
I figured that, with the number of skills per level a beguiler can expect to get, sacrificing two per level to keep those perform skills at max is probably not going to hold a player back too much. Since these skills add so much power to the player with the new ability it gives further incentive to keep them maxed out (as well as good flavour options for a seductive character like you mentioned).
The new enchanted casting does make those skills really attractive now.
One of the reasons I've been so interested in this conversion is that my buddy who is DMing our current group and I have always been big beguiler fans. Up until now I hadn't really seen an interesting pathfinder conversion of the class, but this is one I'd consider playing. Is there any chance you could put up an updated PDF or make a post that includes all of the changes so I could link him to it? We've been discussing the basic ideas here, but he wants to see the whole thing before giving me the OK to roll one up to test it out.
No problem, here's the full class description with updated info:
Beguiler
Fluff and stat block:
The line between truth and fiction can sometimes be very fine and beguilers live on that line. A beguiler wields deception, misdirection, and secrets as proficiently as a master craftsman uses his tools, as skillfully as a virtuoso employs her instrument, and as efficaciously as a soldier utilizes the weapons of war. Through careful and focused study under the tutelage of the beguilers’ guild, each beguiler becomes a master of illusion and enchantment; the result is a caster with such deep knowledge of her limited set of spells that she needn’t prepare them daily, nor keep them in a spellbook.
Few common folk can discern the true nature of a beguiler. Those who look upon them see sorcerers or wizards, yet others see rogues, and many more mistake them for bards. The issue can be further confused by a beguiler’s penchant for adopting false identities. However below the surface of any urban center lies the shadowy guild of beguilers where those with an affinity for magic and deception are trained and contracted out. The guild does not act in isolation; it has orders which operate closely with local mages’, thieves’ and assassins’ guilds all the while being kept under the watch of local lawmen, military and nobles.
Role: A beguiler finds her greatest strengths in battlefield control. Powerful illusions and enchantments allow her to move her foes around like chess pieces and her magic only becomes stronger when she can catch her enemy unawares. Outside of combat a beguiler’s wide variety of skills grant her great utility in dealing with almost any situation.
Alignment: A beguiler’s alignment must fall within the restrictions set by her order or apostasy.
Hit Die: d8.
Base Attack Bonus: Poor.
Fort Save: Poor.
Ref Save: Good.
Will Save: Good.
Spells per Day: As sorcerer.
Spells Known: Spell list.
Starting Wealth: 4d6 x 10 gp (140 gp).
Starting Age: Trained.
Skills:
Class Skills
The beguiler's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Class Features:
Class Features
The following are class features of the beguiler.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A beguiler is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with all forms of crossbows (including hand and repeating variants), plus the rapier, shortbow, and short sword. A beguiler is proficient with light armour, but not with shields. She can cast beguiler spells while wearing light armour without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a beguiler wearing medium armour, heavy armour, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass beguiler still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spells: A beguiler casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the beguiler spell list. When she gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level on the beguiler’s spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. To cast a spell, a beguiler must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a beguiler’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the beguiler’s Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a beguiler can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Beguiler. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A beguiler need not prepare spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level.
Bonus Languages: A beguiler may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.
Cantrips: Beguilers know all of the cantrips, or 0-level spells, listed on the beguiler spell list. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Charlatan’s Cant: The charlatan’s cant is a secret, musical form of communication taught to all members of the beguilers’ guild. It is built upon a system of melodies and nonsense words which cannot be understood by outsiders; a guardsman listening to a beguiler singing in the cant would interpret it as a drunken song in a long dead language. The cant is distinct (spoken by all beguilers regardless of their spoken languages), but it is not a language; it cannot be used to convey information. Responses from local beguilers are limited to positive responses (indicating willingness to help) and negative responses (indicating inability to help); actual information must be exchanged in a language spoken by both beguilers.
The vocabulary of the charlatan’s cant is very limited and it can only be used to indicate that a beguiler is seeking contact with the local guild, information about local rumours, or the location of a specific person, place or item. A beguiler will typically wander through the poorer parts of a town singing the cant until she receives a response; if the response is positive she will follow her contact at a distance to a safe area in which they can meet and discuss the particulars of her inquiry.
Apostate beguilers and ex-beguilers also know the charlatan’s cant, but it is of limited use to them since guild members will not share information with them (and may, in fact, attack them). Apostates are taught a similar spoken form of communication known as the apostate’s argot. This speech can only be used to locate local groups of apostates even if they are members of a different apostasy.
Order Patronage: Each individual’s training in the beguilers’ guild is guided by an organized school known as an order which helps to focus her powers by granting her additional class skills, spells, and abilities. Many orders are founded along strong ideological lines and will not accept a member if her alignment is in opposition to their philosophies. Beguilers who do not want to be subject to the whims of the guild form similar groups known as apostasies.
A beguiler can choose to become an apostate instead of joining an order at 1st level. Once she becomes a member of an apostasy, a beguiler will undergo training which confers similar spells and abilities with similar alignment restrictions.
A beguiler must pick one order/apostasy upon taking her first level of beguiler. Once made, this choice cannot be changed (except as noted in the ex-beguiler section).
At 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can choose to learn a new spell, derived from her order/apostasy’s spell list. Since these spells represent focused study and experimentation, these order spells are added to a beguiler’s spell list one level lower than they appear in the wizard/sorcerer spell list. This spell can be of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell she already knows. Once a new spell is learned, it is forever added to her spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the beguiler spell list.
Instead of learning a spell from her order’s list, a beguiler may also elect to complete her own independent research to learn a new spell of her choosing. She may select any spell from the enchantment or illusion schools on the wizard/sorcerer spell list and add it to her own. Since this research is completed without the aid of guild wisdom, this spell occupies the same level on the beguiler’s spell list as it does on the wizard/sorcerer spell list. This spell is restricted by the same level limits and permanency as her order spells.
Most orders and apostasies have a bonus school, subschool, or descriptor which represents a special interest in spells of that sort and (in the case of guild beguilers) special permission to learn these unusual magics. A beguiler may also elect to learn a spell of this type in place of the above options, even if the spell is from the prohibited school of necromancy. A guild beguiler can draw spells of this type from the bard or wizard/sorcerer spell lists, while apostate beguilers draw these spells from the witch or wizard/sorcerer spell lists; if a spell exists on both of these spell lists at different levels, the spell level is taken from the lower of the two.
Surprise Casting (Ex): When a beguiler successfully uses the Bluff skill to feint in combat, her target is denied its Dexterity bonus (if it has one) to AC for the next melee attack she makes against it or the next spell she casts. She must remain in melee with the target, and the attack must be made or the spell cast on or before her next turn. The target is not considered flat-footed and therefore can make attacks of opportunity against her if she does not cast defensively.
At 9th level, a beguiler may feint in combat to deny her target its Dexterity bonus (if it has one) to AC for the next spell she casts outside of melee. She must remain within 30 ft. of the target, and the spell must be cast on or before her next turn.
Trapfinding: A beguiler adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A beguiler can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Cloaked Casting (Ex): A beguiler of 2nd level or higher becomes more effective when casting against an unsuspecting foe. She gains a +1 bonus to the spell’s save DC when she casts a spell that targets any foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not).
At 8th level, she gains a +2 bonus on rolls made to overcome the spell resistance of any affected target.
At 14th level, the bonus to her spell’s save DC increases to +2.
At 20th level, a beguiler becomes able to automatically overcome the spell resistance of any affected target.
Improved Feint: A beguiler gains Improved Feint as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if she does not have the normal prerequisites. If she already has the Improved Feint feat, she gains Greater Feint as a bonus feat, even if she does not have the normal prerequisites.
Silent Spell: A beguiler gains Silent Spell as a bonus feat at 5th level. She also no longer suffers increased casting time when using the Silent Spell metamagic feat when using her cloaked casting ability.
Still Spell: A beguiler gains Still Spell as a bonus feat at 10th level. She also no longer suffers increased casting time when using the Still Spell metamagic feat when using her cloaked casting ability.
Swift Feint (Ex): At 13th level, a beguiler gains the ability to feint in combat as a swift action.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A beguiler of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a beguiler can hide herself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Ex-Beguilers:
Ex-Beguilers
A beguiler who grossly violates the regulations of her order (by shifting to a restricted alignment) cannot gain new levels as a beguiler but retains all beguiler abilities and spells. If she is granted induction into another order, she may once again gain new levels as a beguiler. She does not gain the order’s class skill and is not retroactively awarded powers or spells associated with a beguiler of her level. If, upon gaining a new level as a beguiler, she is awarded an order power which requires or is a modification of an order power she does not possess, she does not receive the new order power.
A beguiler who grossly violates the regulations of the beguilers’ guild (by acting against the guild or practicing forbidden magic) as a whole cannot elect to join another order. If she seeks out an organized group of apostates, she may once again gain new levels as a beguiler with the same restrictions as joining a new order.
Spell List:
Beguiler Spell List
Beguilers gain access to the following spells. While most of these spells are found in the Core Rulebook, those marked with 1 appear in the Advanced Player’s Guide, those marked with 2 appear in Ultimate Magic and those marked with 3 appear in Ultimate Combat.
5th-Level Beguiler Spells—break enchantment, dominate person, feeblemind, foe to friend 1, hold monster, mind fog, persistent image, seeming, sending, smug narcissism 2, telepathic bond.
6th-Level Beguiler Spells—cloak of dreams 1, greater dispel magic, mass suggestion, mislead, repulsion, shadow walk, true seeing, veil.
7th-Level Beguiler Spells—ethereal jaunt, greater arcane sight, mass hold person, mass invisibility, phase door, power word blind, project image, spell turning.
8th-Level Beguiler Spells—demand, discern location, mind blank, moment of prescience, power word stun, scintillating pattern, screen.
9th-Level Beguiler Spells—dominate monster, etherealness, foresight, mass hold monster, power word kill, time stop.
Orders and Apostasies:
Beguiler Orders
The following orders represent the various talents a beguiler has to draw upon. Each of these orders has global span within the beguilers’ guild, though smaller orders exist with more local reach and focus. Unless otherwise noted, most beguilers are inducted to the Order of the Arcane Hand.
Order of the Arcane Hand
The Order of the Arcane Hand represents the raw magical talent of the guild and thus an arcane hand beguiler focuses on exploiting magical deception, empowering her own spells defending herself from the magic of others. The arcane hand works most closely with local mages’ guilds and often serves as the face of the guild to the public. To maintain these relationships, beguilers with evil alignments are not permitted entry to the order.
Permitted Alignments: Any non-evil.
Class Skills: Craft, and Knowledge (history).
Bonus Spells: 1st—Protection from Arrows, 2nd—Protection from Energy, 3rd—Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, 4th—Wreath of Blades 3, 5th—Antimagic Field, 6th—Deflection 1, 7th—Dimensional Lock 8th—Mage’s Disjunction.
Bonus Subschool: Glamer.
Order Powers: An arcane hand beguiler is a master of magic, she uses this proficiency to empower her spells and protect them from outside disruption.
Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler gains the wizard’s arcane bond class feature. She must immediately choose between a familiar or bonded object. Once she makes this choice it is permanent and cannot be changed.
False Theurgy (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler may use a swift action to adjust the verbal and somatic components of her next spell to mimic those of another spell of the same level. Any creature using Spellcraft or any other means to identify the spell she is casting believes it to be the other spell instead.
This trick renders her spell immune to the normal method of counterspelling, though dispel magic or a similar effect still works normally. Once the spell takes effect, it can be identified and dealt with normally.
Hide Aura (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler can conceal herself from prying magic. This ability acts like a constant nondetection spell cast upon the beguiler. She can end or restore this protection as a move action.
Order Mastery (Ex): At 20th level an arcane hand beguiler is granted the title master and her body surges with arcane power. She can add any metamagic feats that she knows to her spells without increasing their casting time, although she must still expend higher-level spell slots. Whenever she uses magic items that require charges, she can instead expend spell slots to power the item. For every three levels of spell slots that she expends, the magic item consumes one less charge.
Order of the Silent Foot
The Order of the Silent Foot represents the guile and stealth of the guild and thus a silent foot beguiler focuses on harnessing the power of shadows. The silent foot does not generally work openly with guild outsiders and will only truly trust fellow beguilers.
Permitted Alignments: Any.
Class Skills: Knowledge (dungeoneering), and Knowledge (planes).
Order Powers: A silent foot beguiler infuses her mastery of magic with the essence of shadow.
Shadow’s Kin (Su): At 1st level, a beguiler can magically change her appearance to look as if she were little more than an area of shadow that fills the beguiler’s space for a number of rounds equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier per day. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This ability works like invisibility, her physical form still exists and she is not incorporeal—only her appearance changes.
Night Eye (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler gains darkvision 60 feet. If she already possesses darkvision, its range in increased by 60 feet.
Enveloping Darkness (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler may create an area of deeper darkness that she can see through without penalty. All creatures except for her are entangled within this darkness unless using freedom of movement or a similar effect. A beguiler may use this ability once per day.
Order Mastery (Su): At 20th level a silent foot beguiler is granted the title master and gains the ability to see perfectly in natural or magical darkness. When she casts the shades spell, her creations gain the benefits of the Augment Summoning feat.
Order of the Unseen Hand
The Order of the Unseen Hand represents the lethal power of the guild and thus an unseen hand beguiler focuses on concentrating her magical power into deadly strikes. The unseen hand operates in close connection to local thieves’ and assassins’ guilds and routinely contract out their services to the less reputable segments of society. To maintain these relationships, beguilers with lawful alignments are not permitted entry to the order.
Permitted Alignments: Any non-lawful.
Class Skills: Intimidate, and Knowledge (Nobility).
Order Powers: An unseen hand beguiler becomes incredibly lethal if she is able to render her opponent helpless.
Paralyzing Strike (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can make a melee touch attack against a foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) as a standard action that causes a living creature to become paralyzed for 1d4 rounds + 1 for every two beguiler levels she possesses. A beguiler can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier.
At 9th level, a beguiler may instead activate this ability through a ranged touch attack as long as she is within 30 ft. of her target.
At 12th level, a beguiler is able to use this ability as a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity three times per day.
Death Blow (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler can perform a coup de grace against a helpless defender as a standard action. Doing this still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Quiet Death (Ex): At 13th level, whenever a beguiler kills a creature with a coup de grace during a surprise round, she can also make a Stealth check, opposed by Perception checks of those in the vicinity to prevent them from identifying her as the assailant. If the beguiler uses a one-handed or ranged weapon for the attack, she suffers a -5 penalty to her check. This ability cannot be used with two-handed melee weapons. If successful, those nearby might not even notice that the target is dead for a few moments, allowing the beguiler to avoid detection.
Order Mastery (Su): At 20th level an unseen hand beguiler is granted the title master and gains the ability to cause her target’s body to crumble to dust after making a successful coup de grace. This prevents raise dead and resurrection (although true resurrection works as normal). The beguiler must declare the use of this ability before the attack is made. If the attack misses or the target successfully saves against the death attack, this ability is wasted with no effect. The beguiler can use this ability once per day.
Order of the Wandering Heart
The Order of the Wandering Heart represents the seduction and persuasion of the guild and thus a wandering heart beguiler focuses on making her powers of charm and enchantment irresistible. The wandering heart typically works only for the guild’s gain and will use outsiders as they see fit.
Order Powers: A wandering heart beguiler empowers her enchantments with a strange magic.
Charmed Casting (Ex): At 1st level, a beguiler’s enchantment spells become more effective. When she applies any metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell to a spell from the enchantment school, the enhanced spell uses up a spell slot one level lower than normal. A spell cannot be reduced to below its original level with the use of this ability.
Enchanted Casting (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler can attempt to disguise her spellcasting. As part of the action used to cast an enchantment spell, she makes a Perform (dance) check to disguise somatic spell components and a Perform (sing) check to disguise verbal spell components opposed by the Perception checks of onlookers. If she is successful, an observer can’t tell that she’s casting a spell. This permits her to apply all the bonuses afforded to her by her cloaked casting ability to this spell.
Beguiling Aura (Su): At 13th level, any creature sexually attracted to creatures of a beguiler’s type and gender runs the risk of being seduced by a beguiler if it looks upon her from a distance of 30 feet or less. If the creature fails a will save (DC 10 + the beguiler’s class level + the beguiler’s Charisma modifier), it is immediately fascinated. She can dismiss or activate this aura as a move action.
Once a creature is fascinated by her beguiling aura, a beguiler may use suggestion as a spell-like ability (using her beguiler level as her caster level) against it as a standard action. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect. The save DC is Charisma-based. A beguiler may use this spell-like ability once per day.
Order Mastery (Su): At 20th level a wandering heart beguiler is granted the title master and her soul becomes one with the world of the fey. She gains immunity to poison and DR 10/cold iron. Creatures of the animal type do not attack her unless compelled to do so through magic. Once per day, she can cast dimension door as a spell like ability using her beguiler level as her caster level.
Beguiler Apostasies
The following groups of apostates represent local groups of beguilers who find themselves at odds with the guild. They often utilize talents and magic which are forbidden by the guild for being too dangerous or because they could threaten the guild’s relationship with society at large. Apostate and guild beguilers often harbour a deep-seated hatred for one another and will automatically treat a known member of the opposing group as hostile. Since they are relatively few in number, apostate beguilers will treat another beguiler of unknown affiliation as unfriendly initially.
Apostasy of the Restless Mind
The Apostasy of the Restless Mind has spent centuries in order to reach through and touch the supernal realm of dreams and nightmares. The beguilers’ guild has deemed this type of magic and power too dangerous and unstable long ago and cast these apostates from their orders. Restless mind beguilers gather in larger urban centers where the dreamscape is most populous and take particular delight in interfering with the dreams of nobles. A restless mind beguiler must exercise great control in the land of dreams lest she become lost there forever; as a result, beguilers of chaotic alignments are not permitted to learn from these apostates.
Permitted Alignments: Any non-chaotic.
Class Skills: Knowledge (nobility), and Knowledge (planes).
Apostasy Powers: A restless mind beguiler learns to manipulate the dreamscape of others and even travel there herself.
Lullaby (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can use lullaby as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. This effect lasts for 1 minute and does not require concentration. The penalty on saves versus sleep effects increases to -4.
Dreamshaper (Sp): At 7th level, a beguiler can manipulate the dreamscape of others, drawing forth or tampering with their subconscious minds. This power allows her to tamper with the target’s memories as if using modify memory, or she may ask questions as if using speak with dead upon a corpse. A successful Will save negates the effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier, with further modifiers as the nightmare spell. She can use this ability once per day at 8th level. At 16th level she can use this ability twice per day, and at 20th, three times per day.
Dreaming Puppet (Sp): At 13th level, a beguiler can enter the dreamscape for one hour for every two beguiler levels she possesses once per day. While in the dreamscape she can attempt to take control of the physical body of a sleeping creature. If the beguiler can name the subject or identify him by some title that leaves no doubt to his identity she may attempt to possess his body, otherwise she must spend 1d4+1 hours searching for him in the dreamscape. If the subject is awake when the beguiler attempts to possess him, she can choose to exit the dreamscape (wasting the ability with no effect) or remain in the dreamscape until he goes to sleep.
While the beguiler is in the dreamscape or controlling her subject, her body enters a trance-like state. She is unaware of her own surroundings or of the activities around her. She is defenceless both physically and mentally (always failing any saving throw) while in the trace. If the beguiler is disturbed or awakened during the trace, her control of the subject is ended.
Attempting to possess a body is a full-round action. It is blocked by protection from evil or a similar ward or if the subject succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the beguiler's level + her Intelligence modifier). Failure to take over the host wakes him immediately and he automatically succeeds on further saving throws if the beguiler attempts to possess its body again. Creatures which don't sleep, don't dream, or are otherwise immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities are immune to this ability.
This ability carries an element of risk for the beguiler. If the subject exceeds the required Will save by 10 or more the beguiler's soul becomes lost in the dreamscape, unable to easily return to her own body. In order to return to her body, she must cast a planar traveling spell, be rescued, or spend 1d3 hours travelling through the realm of dreams to find an exit (even if this exceeds the normal duration of this ability). When she is able to return to her body, she is fatigued until she is able to rest again.
If the beguiler succeeds in possessing her target's body, she appears in his dream preventing his free movement about the dreamscape. The subject is aware of the beguiler and, upon waking, can identify her if he knows her personally. The beguiler's mind seizes control of the subject's physical form and controls his body as the spell magic jar. She does not gain any special access to his memories or knowledge of any security measures in the vicinity. The subject can be awakened by a loud noise, a sudden drop, upon taking any form of damage, or by his allies rousing him as a standard action; this breaks a beguiler's control. The beguiler can choose to release her control over the subject as a full-round action requiring concentration.
Once the beguiler's control over her subject is broken, her daily use of this ability ends and her subject awakens suddenly. He is aware of what his body has done while asleep, though these memories are dreamlike and not entirely clear. A spiritual link remains between both beguiler and subject for 24 hours following the end of her control; any damage received by one party is also visited upon the other as nonlethal damage. Furthermore, if one party dies before this period is over, the living party receives an amount of temporary negative levels equal to 1/4 the dead party's HD.
Arch Apostasy (Ex): At 20th level a restless mind beguiler is granted the title arch apostate and gains the ability to drift into the dream world, fading from the world around her. She no longer risks being trapped in the dreamscape when using the dreaming puppet ability. She can also become incorporeal for 1 minute per beguiler level. She gains the incorporeal subtype and takes only half damage from corporeal magical attacks (she takes no damage from nonmagical weapons and objects). Her spells deal only half damage to corporeal creatures, but spells and abilities that do not deal damage function normally. The duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.
Apostasy of the Shambling Bones
The Apostasy of the Shambling Bones delights in the power of the undead. Necromancy has long been a school of magic forbidden by the beguilers’ guild as it complicates their relationship with the general public. Shambling bones beguilers find themselves cast out into the wilderness and abandoned ruins where their undead creations will not draw much notice. Due to the particularly dark nature of their practice, shambling bones apostates shun beguilers of good alignment.
Apostasy Powers: A shambling bones beguiler delves deeper into the dark arts of necromancy as she lusts to unlock the secret of immortality.
Grave Touch (Sp): At 1st level, a beguiler can make a melee touch attack against a foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) as a standard action that causes a living creature to become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her beguiler level (minimum 1). If she touches a shaken creature with this ability, it becomes frightened for 1 round if it has fewer Hit Dice than her beguiler level. She can use spectral hand to deliver this attack from a distance if she knows the spell. A beguiler can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier.
Grasp of Death (Sp): At 7th level, a beguiler can cause a swarm of skeletal arms to burst from the ground to rip and tear at her foes. The skeletal arms erupt from the ground in a 20-foot-radius burst. Anyone in this area takes 1d6 points of slashing damage per beguiler level. Those caught in the area receive a Reflex save for half damage. Those who fail the save are unable to move for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier. The skeletal arms disappear after 1 round. The arms must burst up from a solid surface. She can use this ability once per day at 7th level. At 14th level she can use this ability twice per day, and at 20th, three times per day. This power has a range of 60 feet.
Enervating Touch (Su): At 13th level, a beguiler can bestow negative levels when she uses her grave touch attack as a swift action. Each day, she can bestow a total number of negative levels equal to one-half her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + 1/2 her beguiler level + her Intelligence modifier.
Beginning at 17th level, the number of negative levels a beguiler can bestow per day increases to her class level.
Arch Apostasy (Ex): At 20th level a shambling bones beguiler is granted the title arch apostate, her body begins to rot and undead see her as one of them. She gains immunity to cold, nonleathal damage, paralysis, and sleep. She also gains DR 5/—. Unintelligent undead do not notice her unless she attacks them. She receives a +4 morale bonus on saving throws made against spells and spell-like abilities cast by undead.
Archetype:
Class Archetypes
Some beguilers find that magic comes to them through innate magical ability rather than practiced training. These beguilers rarely have the patience to get involved with the structure found in most guilds and apostasies, as such they tend to strike out on their own and form their allegiances as individuals.
Theurgic Brigand
A theurgic brigand could have made her way in the world as a sorcerer, but felt a stronger pull to a rougher life. She supplements her magical abilities with a suite of roguish talents to help her survive of the rough streets of any urban center.
Arcane Inborn: A theurgic brigand looks within to natural talent for her magical abilities rather than studious training. As such, she uses her Charisma score and modifier (rather than Intelligence) to determine the spells she can cast, the Difficulty Class for her spells’ saving throws and her allotment of bonus spells.
Class Skills: A theurgic brigand adds Craft, Intimidate and Linguistics to her class skills.
Weapon Proficiency: A theurgic brigand adds the sap to her weapon proficiencies.
Brigand Talents: As a beguiler gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 1st level (and every 4 levels thereafter) a beguiler gains one brigand talent. A beguiler cannot select and individual talent more than once, unless otherwise noted. This ability replaces order patronage (order powers).
Talents marked with † add effects to a beguiler's cloaked casting ability. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual spell and can only be applied to one target affected by the spell (if the chosen target is not affected by the spell, the use of the talent is wasted); the decision of which talent is applied and which enemy is targeted must be made before the spell is cast.
Charmer (Ex): Once per day, the beguiler can roll two dice while making a Diplomacy check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Diplomacy check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Coax Information (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy in place of Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward her.
Combat Swipe: A beguiler who selects this talent gains Improved Steal as a bonus feat.
Cunning Trigger (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use a swift action to set off any trap within 30 feet that she constructed.
Esoteric Scholar (Ex): Once a day, a beguiler with this talent may attempt a Knowledge check, even when she is not trained in that Knowledge skill.
Fast Fingers (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this talent can roll two dice while making a Sleight of Hand check and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Sleight of Hand check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Fast Picks (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can use the Disable Device skill to attempt to open a lock as a standard action instead of a full-round action.
Fast Stealth (Ex): This ability allows a beguiler to move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Hard to Fool (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this talent can roll two dice while making a Sense Motive check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Sense Motive check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 beguiler levels she possesses.
Honeyed Words (Ex): Once per day, the beguiler can roll two dice while making a Bluff check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the Bluff check. A beguiler can use this ability one additional time per day for every five beguiler levels she possesses.
Magic Trick: A beguiler that selects this talent gains a bonus metamagic feat. She may gain this special ability multiple times.
Resiliency (Ex): Once per day, a beguiler with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the beguiler's level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when she is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the beguiler's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal.
Scoundrel's Crawl (Ex): While prone, a begiler with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A beguiler with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling.
Slicing Spell † (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can cause a single living opponent to bleed when successfully using her cloaked casting ability. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round per level of the spell (e.g., a 4th level spell equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. A foe targeted by this ability may not be targeted again for one day. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.
Stand Up (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes attacks of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a beguiler can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if she is wearing light armour or no armour. A helpless beguiler does not gain the benefit of evasion. This ability replaces charlatan’s cant.
Stolen Knowledge (Ex): At 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can attempt to learn a new spell by fooling a local bard into believing that she is seeking an apprenticeship. She may select any spell from the bard spell list and, upon passing a Bluff check (DC 10 + the spell’s level), add it to her own. This spell can be of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell she already knows. Once a new spell is learned, it is forever added to her spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the beguiler spell list. This ability replaces order patronage (order spells).
Advanced Talents: At 9th level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a brigand talent.
Another Day (Ex): Once per day, when the beguiler would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by a melee attack, she can take a 5-foot step as an immediate action. If the movement takes her out of the reach of the attack, she takes no damage from the attack. The beguiler is staggered for 1 round on her next turn.
Entangling Spell [occ]†[/ooc] (Ex): A beguiler with this ability can entangle a single target of her cloaked casting ability. If the beguiler’s spell successfully affects the target, he cannot take a 5-foot step until the beginning of the beguiler's next turn.
Familiar (Ex): A beguiler with this talent gains a familiar as the familiar option of the wizard's arcane bond class feature. This ability functions exactly like that part of the class feature, but the beguiler’s effective wizard level is her beguiler level –2.
Fast Tumble (Ex): When a beguiler with this talent uses Acrobatics to move at full speed through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity, the DC of the Acrobatics check does not increase by 10.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This works like evasion, except that while the beguiler still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless beguiler does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Skill Mastery: The beguiler becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for skill mastery to apply to each time.
Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the beguiler's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a beguiler with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.
Weapon Snatcher (Ex): A beguiler with this talent can make a Sleight of Hand check in place of a combat maneuver check when attempting to disarm an opponent.
Theurgic Mastery (Su): At 20th level, a beguiler’s exposure to raw arcane power gives her significant resistance. She gains DR 10/cold iron, and gains SR equal to 6 + her beguiler level. This ability replaces order patronage (order mastery).
Hi there, I'm Penumbral Shadow's DM and just had a quick read over the writeup. I didn't take a really close look at the numbers, so I'd need a little more time to decide if we might move forward with a little in-game play testing.
I must say I found the flavor and fluff of the class really exciting. The guild and all the underlying structures in the order helps to differentiate the character of a beguiler from a sorc or bard. But the thing that really caught my attention is the archetype. The idea of a beguiler developing outside of a guild is intriguing and I think it opens the door to a wide number of options. The rogue-like archetype is great and on-flavor for an urban beguiler but what about a self-taught beguiler who grew up in the wilderness? You might blend the class with the weapon style feats of the ranger to replace the order powers? What about a street brawler with a better BAB progression and some of the fighter's weapon training skills? What about a beguiler trained in a church who can channel energy to inflict damage on an enemy? You might even do something with limited bardic performance abilities. You've set up a great class archetype which could turn into a jack-of-all-trades.
Hi there, I'm Penumbral Shadow's DM and just had a quick read over the writeup. I didn't take a really close look at the numbers, so I'd need a little more time to decide if we might move forward with a little in-game play testing.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, especially if you do try it at your table.
LT Silverstar wrote:
I must say I found the flavor and fluff of the class really exciting. The guild and all the underlying structures in the order helps to differentiate the character of a beguiler from a sorc or bard. But the thing that really caught my attention is the archetype. The idea of a beguiler developing outside of a guild is intriguing and I think it opens the door to a wide number of options. The rogue-like archetype is great and on-flavor for an urban beguiler but what about a self-taught beguiler who grew up in the wilderness? You might blend the class with the weapon style feats of the ranger to replace the order powers? What about a street brawler with a better BAB progression and some of the fighter's weapon training skills? What about a beguiler trained in a church who can channel energy to inflict damage on an enemy? You might even do something with limited bardic performance abilities. You've set up a great class archetype which could turn into a jack-of-all-trades.
Thanks for your kind words about the archetype. I've gone back to the archetype a few times to see if I could come up with something compelling. I'm a bit weary of making an archetype built around combat abilities as that would be difficult to do with the poor BAB and I think increasing the BAB would be getting away from the core idea of the class. I also think adding negative energy channeling or making a pseudo-divine archetype deviates too far from the arcane basis of the class.
Your question about solo beguilers in the wild gives me a little food for thought though. I know the theurgic brigand is very urban-based and I could definitely see the potential for a more rural antipode. As I mention above, I'm not keen on the idea of using combat powers, but ranger/druid class features like trackless step, woodland stride or a thousand faces would fit well. It may even do well with an animal companion. The only question would be what should be done about the order spells: choosing from ranger spell list would be limited because of the spell level cap, choosing from the druid spell list might be too powerful. Maybe a fixed list of bonus spells would work well.
I agree with SNA. I wonder if the new archetype might also benefit from swapping out the ranger's hide in plain sight ability instead of its supernatural cousin the vanilla beguilers use?
Summon nature's ally, maybe? It'd line up with the druid's spontaneous casting ability and would scale as the character levels.
That's a great idea. The spell progression is just right for all the odd numbered iterations, too.
LT Silverstar wrote:
I wonder if the new archetype might also benefit from swapping out the ranger's hide in plain sight ability instead of its supernatural cousin the vanilla beguilers use?
Another really good idea. Now that I think about it, I might also want to do that for the theurgic brigand with the urban terrain.
Thank you both for your input, it's incredibly helpful. I'll see what I can put together.
Born in the wilds, an elusive wilding is unsure of the true nature of her powers. She often turns to the wisdom of druids for insight into her arcane talents, as they share a similar bond with the natural world around them. Unlike most other beguilers, she feels more at home amongst the towering canopy of the forest than the sprawling buildings of a metropolis.
Arcane Inborn: An elusive wildling looks within to natural talent for her magical abilities rather than studious training. As such, she uses her Charisma score and modifier (rather than Intelligence) to determine the spells she can cast, the Difficulty Class for her spells’ saving throws and her allotment of bonus spells.
Class Skills: An elusive wildling adds Handle Animal, Knowledge (nature), and Survival to her class skills.
Weapon Proficiency: An elusive wildling adds the composite shortbow, kukri, scimitar, and scythe to her weapon proficiencies.
Nature’s Gift: As a beguiler gains experience, her connection to the natural world around her strengthens. She gains the ability to influence the natural world around her in powerful ways to enhance her trickery. These abilities replace order patronage (order powers).
Wildling’s Pack (Ex): At 1st level, a beguiler forms a close bond with an animal companion (as the druid’s Nature Bond class feature). The beguiler gains a +2 bonus on wild empathy and Handle Animal checks made regarding her animal companion. As she increases in level, a beguiler may have more than one animal companion, but she must divide up her effective druid level between her companions to determine the abilities of each companion. For example, a 4th-level beguiler can have one 4th-level companion, two 2nd-level companions, or one 1st-level companion and one 3rd-level companion.
Each time a beguiler’s level increases, she must decide how to allocate the increase among her animal companions (including the option of adding a new 1st-level companion). Once an effective druid level is allocated to a particular companion, it cannot be redistributed while that companion is in the beguiler’s service (she must release the companion or wait until the companion dies to allocate its levels to another companion, which she can do the next time her daily spells are replenished). The share spells animal companion ability only applies to one animal companion at a time—the beguiler cannot use it to cast a one-target spell and have it affect all of her animal companions.
Trackless Step (Ex): At 7th level, a beguiler leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.
A Thousand Faces (Su): At 13th level, a beguiler gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell.
Wild Empathy (Ex): At 1st level, a beguiler can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person (see Using Skills). The beguiler rolls 1d20 and adds her beguiler level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
To use wild empathy, the beguiler and the animal must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
A beguiler can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty on the check. This ability replaces charlatan’s cant.
Woodland Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, a beguiler may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect her. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Druidic Tutelage (Ex): At 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter, a beguiler can seek the assistance of local druidic casters to improve her arcane power. She is able to add any summon nature’s ally spell to her list of known spells. This spell can be of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell she already knows. Once a new spell is learned, it is forever added to her spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the beguiler spell list. This ability replaces order patronage (order spells).
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): At 17th level, a beguiler can select three terrains from the ranger’s favoured terrain list, not including planes or urban. She is a master at hiding in those terrains, and while within those terrains, she can use the Stealth skill to hide, even while being observed. This ability replaces the beguiler ability of the same name.
Verdant Trickster (Su): At 20th level, a beguiler’s connection to the forest reaches its ultimate manifestation as her skin turns into a smooth bark, gaining her a +4 natural armour bonus. She also gains tremorsense 30 feet as well as immunity to paralysis, poison, polymorph effects (except when cast on self), sleep, and stunning. This ability replaces order mastery.
As a move action, she can extend roots from her feet into the ground. Her speed is reduced to 5 feet, but she gains a +10 bonus to CMD against bull rush, overrun, reposition, and trip maneuvers. She also gains fast healing 1 while rooted. She can root herself for 20 minutes per day. This duration need not be consecutive, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.
I recognize the pack lord druid's natural companion in there because one of my players uses it with pretty good effect. She usually keeps a high-level wolf, a low-level owl and a low-level shark (she keeps the shark in a custom, extra-dimensional fish tank based on a bag of holding). The owl and shark are very situational and are mostly used to scope out situation where her character can't get to. I think it would be very fitting if this wildling could use their pack in a very similar way. Why not include the improved empathic link ability for the archetype too?
Things I like: Good choices for the powers borrowed from the ranger/druid. I especially like the fact that you replaced the beguiler language with wild empathy. The capstone power looks really cool, too.
Things I might change: Adding in the improved empathic link would be really useful as I said. I also think this archetype might work well with a wisdom casting stat instead of charisma (making it more druid-like).
I recognize the pack lord druid's natural companion in there because one of my players uses it with pretty good effect. She usually keeps a high-level wolf, a low-level owl and a low-level shark (she keeps the shark in a custom, extra-dimensional fish tank based on a bag of holding). The owl and shark are very situational and are mostly used to scope out situation where her character can't get to. I think it would be very fitting if this wildling could use their pack in a very similar way. Why not include the improved empathic link ability for the archetype too?
Things I like: Good choices for the powers borrowed from the ranger/druid. I especially like the fact that you replaced the beguiler language with wild empathy. The capstone power looks really cool, too.
Things I might change: Adding in the improved empathic link would be really useful as I said. I also think this archetype might work well with a wisdom casting stat instead of charisma (making it more druid-like).
Gina uses the empathic link reasonably because she knows you'll slap her character down if she gets out of hand, I'm not sure that it'd work so well with other players, though. Hell, Steve would probably abuse the heck out of that if you let him.
You can't really tailor anything to the Steves of the world, they'll always look for the loopholes in anything. I don't really think giving a beguiler the ability to see through the eyes of their animal companion is particularly game breaking, especially with divination powers like scrying and superb stealth options (mundane and arcane). I think the link mostly just adds a beguiler-like feel to the animal companion side of the equation and not a highly exploitable power-up for the ability.
LOL When I first started playing DnD we had a guy named Steve in our group who was constantly trying to break the game. I wonder if there's just something about Steves :P
The reason I left out the empathic link was that it was given to pack lords as a replacement for one of their wild shape upgrades, beguilers had no such ability to replace so I decided to leave it out. I guess I could give it to them with a bit of level lag (maybe have it become available at 9th level like the unseen hand's 1st level order power).
edit: sorry, I just realized I didn't say anything about your other comment. I like the current situation where the elusive wildling is a charisma caster since it's still an arcane casting class. Charisma casting has always represented raw arcane talent to me.
Haha! Pathfinders everywhere beware of the evil Steve!
I like the look of this new archetype. It's much more interesting to me than the thurgic brigand. I don't really know which flavor of beguiler would be most interesting to me right now!
One thing that I was curious about was why doesn't it get composite longbow proficiency? I'm guessing that you've added the composite shortbow to make it more rangerish, but why not the longbow?
One thing that I was curious about was why doesn't it get composite longbow proficiency? I'm guessing that you've added the composite shortbow to make it more rangerish, but why not the longbow?
It reflects the base beguiler's weapon proficiencies; she gets the shortbow, but not the longbow.
So I've taken a look at the class as a whole and here are my comments, questions and suggestions:
I love the fluff you've put into this class. The guild and orders give enough of a framework to build up the basic idea of the beguiler while leaving it sufficiently vague so that the player can mold the character to his specifications. The archetypes build on this even more so, allowing the player to break out of the enforced framework of the guild without sacrificing any of the trademark beguiler abilities.
BAB: This might just be because I've houseruled that rogues and monks get full BAB at my table, but I think this class might benefit from the medium BAB progression. The HD reflects the fact that this class is forced into closer combat and some orders have a strong melee/combat focus.
Saves: I like that you added good reflex saves to the class, it always seemed fitting with the theme of the beguiler. It wasn't usually a very big issue in D&D as high dex was pretty important for the class. Fortitude saves will always be where this class is weakest.
Charlatan's cant: A great addition that calls back to the thieves' cant from AD&D. It adds a neat depth to fluff of the class and becomes a valuable tool for DMs looking for a hook to offer his players.
Bonus spells: A lot of really cool options here. Bonus subschools and bard/witch spells make for very interesting new options to add to the spell list. I'm not sure how I feel about the list spells entering at a lower spell level than they normally occur. I think I'll have to see how it works out at the table.
Surprise casting: Similar to the D&D ability, but the addition of ranged options at higher levels makes it really killer. Not too powerful, but it lets a beguiler use it without getting absolutely stomped if her enemy succeeds on his save. Combining it with improved/swift feint gives the beguiler a lot of combat options.
Hide in Plain Sight: Thematically a very neat addition. A beguiler's likely to be a stealth machine, but this adds to their options for a quick escape when necessary.
Orders, apostasies and archetypes
Arcane hand: False theurgy was a skill trick I've used pretty routinely with my beguiler builds. A familiar and constant nondetection help to beef up the magical abilities of the class. Metamagic without increased casting time is an incredible capstone power, not sure I'd ever use the spells for charge option.
Silent foot: An interesting stealthy class. Lots of shadow utility from shadow's kin and night eye. Enveloping darkness is the real star of this show, I think. The capstone is decent, but not as nice as many of the other orders.
Unseen hand: This is a really interesting, but strongly situational order. I always saw assassin-types as more of an NPC class than a PC class. That said, you have a much more worthwhile assassin than the prestige class. Combining a paralysis attack with faster coup de graces is a powerful way to kill, but it's fairly limited by use-per-day restrictions. Quiet death is a really fun option with lots of flavor. I especially liked the penalty for the check if you're not using a dagger for the killing blow. Capstone again is kind of meh.
Wandering heart: Really cool thematically and everything here feels so incredibly unique. Enchanted casting jumps right off the page and makes so much sense to me. When you couple it with charmed casting, it basically gives you a free silent/still so you only need to focus on one perform skill. You could also use charmed casting to extend your charm spells to great effect. The power of these abilities is somewhat offset by the somewhat limited utility of charm spells. Beguiling aura is also really intriguing, the only change I might suggest is being a little more explicit in terms of what defines "looking upon her". Does it mean her face? Could it be any part of her body (I have this funny image of my mind where a wandering heart beguiler fascinates men by showing some ankle)? The capstone seems like it comes out of nowhere, but offers useful abilities and resistance. Maybe a little more could be included to explain why this seductress suddenly turns into a fey creature?
Restless mind: At first I thought this order wouldn't interest me, but it caught my attention with dreaming puppet. What an option to have in your toolbox! It's powerful, but it's offset by risk (not just getting lost, but also to your character while they're in the trance). I might suggest making the "search" phase of the spell last longer if you don't know the target. In particular it feels like it should be a very real risk that the entire duration of the ability could get used up by the search to really drive home the need to name your target. The rest of the powers are alright, but don't jump out like dreaming puppet.
Shambling bones: Feels like kind of a boilerplate necromancy option to me and almost seems out of place. Enervating touch is an interesting option that (when combined with the capstone morph into pseudo-undead) almost touches on the dread necromancer's transformation from D&D. This thing is still thematically a nightmare and the order as a whole just seems... not a beguiler.
Theurgic brigand: Stolen knowledge is an interesting take on the bonus spells. Otherwise it's a pretty simple reskin of rogue talents instead of order powers. If you made the change to hide in plain sight you discussed (replacing it with the ranger ability for urban terrain) would help to distinguish it too.
Elusive wildling: Already posted my comments on this. The more I read it, the more I fall in love with this weird beguiler option. I still think you should include the empathic link.
BAB: This might just be because I've houseruled that rogues and monks get full BAB at my table, but I think this class might benefit from the medium BAB progression. The HD reflects the fact that this class is forced into closer combat and some orders have a strong melee/combat focus.
I'm not sure I'd want to increase the BAB. I want the beguiler to remain primarily a caster class. While some of the order powers are more martial than others, they still typically center around touch attacks or special attack actions which don't require an attack roll.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Silent foot: An interesting stealthy class. Lots of shadow utility from shadow's kin and night eye. Enveloping darkness is the real star of this show, I think. The capstone is decent, but not as nice as many of the other orders.
Do you think the capstone might be more attractive if I replaced the Augment Summoning feat with some aspects of the shadow creature template? I'm thinking maybe the defensive abilities and the shadow blending ability.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Unseen hand: This is a really interesting, but strongly situational order. I always saw assassin-types as more of an NPC class than a PC class. That said, you have a much more worthwhile assassin than the prestige class. Combining a paralysis attack with faster coup de graces is a powerful way to kill, but it's fairly limited by use-per-day restrictions. Quiet death is a really fun option with lots of flavor. I especially liked the penalty for the check if you're not using a dagger for the killing blow. Capstone again is kind of meh.
I did try to pull away from the more NPC favouring abilities of the assassin PrC like true death, but wasn't quite sure of how to best do the mastery ability. I'll try to think of something that might work better, but I'd be open to suggestions if you had one.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Wandering heart: Really cool thematically and everything here feels so incredibly unique. Enchanted casting jumps right off the page and makes so much sense to me. When you couple it with charmed casting, it basically gives you a free silent/still so you only need to focus on one perform skill. You could also use charmed casting to extend your charm spells to great effect. The power of these abilities is somewhat offset by the somewhat limited utility of charm spells. Beguiling aura is also really intriguing, the only change I might suggest is being a little more explicit in terms of what defines "looking upon her". Does it mean her face? Could it be any part of her body (I have this funny image of my mind where a wandering heart beguiler fascinates men by showing some ankle)? The capstone seems like it comes out of nowhere, but offers useful abilities and resistance. Maybe a little more could be included to explain why this seductress suddenly turns into a fey creature?
I'll try to add a little more text to the skill descriptions to add to these. I definitely need to be a little more specific with the beguiling aura ability, it will probably mean her face or possibly even just meeting her gaze. This ability was based on a power possessed by Nereids which is where the fey aspect of their master power comes from.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Restless mind: At first I thought this order wouldn't interest me, but it caught my attention with dreaming puppet. What an option to have in your toolbox! It's powerful, but it's offset by risk (not just getting lost, but also to your character while they're in the trance). I might suggest making the "search" phase of the spell last longer if you don't know the target. In particular it feels like it should be a very real risk that the entire duration of the ability could get used up by the search to really drive home the need to name your target. The rest of the powers are alright, but don't jump out like dreaming puppet.
That's a really intriguing possibility you raise about making the search for the target potentially waste the use of the ability. How long do you think is appropriate (particularly since the ability can last for up to 10 hours)? Do you think that this duration might be too long?
LT Silverstar wrote:
Shambling bones: Feels like kind of a boilerplate necromancy option to me and almost seems out of place. Enervating touch is an interesting option that (when combined with the capstone morph into pseudo-undead) almost touches on the dread necromancer's transformation from D&D. This thing is still thematically a nightmare and the order as a whole just seems... not a beguiler.
I felt that the shambling bones creates some interesting options for beguilers; I was particularly interested in the potential to combine illusions with necromancy to disguise a group of raised minions. I did my best to keep the offensive necromancy spells off of their bonus list (with the exception of waves of fatigue), so it doesn't just turn into another offensive powerhouse.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Theurgic brigand: Stolen knowledge is an interesting take on the bonus spells. Otherwise it's a pretty simple reskin of rogue talents instead of order powers. If you made the change to hide in plain sight you discussed (replacing it with the ranger ability for urban terrain) would help to distinguish it too.
I've already made the hide in plain sight change on my main document for the conversion.
LT Silverstar wrote:
Elusive wildling: Already posted my comments on this. The more I read it, the more I fall in love with this weird beguiler option. I still think you should include the empathic link.
I've come around to agree with you WRT the empathic link. An elusive wildling will now get the improved empathic link at 9th level.
