Beguiler conversion for Pathfinder


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ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I can't help but wonder though if they end up giving undo advantage to races with the +1/2 use for 3+int/day powers favored class bonus. I wonder if it might be better to give the beguiler a "stygian pool" instead of uses per day of stygian step and have those powers draw off of that.
The only race that currently has that favoured class bonus is the Vishkanya who aren't the most optimized choice for orders based around spellcasting like the baleful shadow; IMHO they are a much better fit mechanically (as well as fluff-wise) as ghastly claw or wandering heart beguilers.

I guess saves are king for the baleful shadow and anything that cuts into Int will be pretty non-optimized. Fair enough.


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Mark pointed me back here telling me you've made some changes to the conversion. While I'm sad you've departed from the old standby of the class knowing all its spells, I can definitely understand your reasoning for doing so. The new spell list looks really neat and I'd still look forward to seeing what kind of spells known my players would build up. One thing I would beg of you is to add mage hand to the spell list. From the beginning this class was one that cried out to be paired with the arcane trickster PrC and the only thing holding them back is that one spell not being on their list. Before this expanded spell list, I could see the reasoning for keeping mage hand off the list, but now it seems like it would be a simple add that would be well within the themes of the class.

I absolutely adore the new concept for the baleful shadow order. The order powers from old version really did seem like it wasn't anywhere near as unique as the other groups. That said, I think there are some things that could stand to be cleaned up a little and clarified:


  • Stygian step is really interesting. I think you definitely hit on a good point about the lighting conditions to prevent multiclassing shenanigans. Honestly you could drop this limitation at 5th level (the second time there's no BAB bump) and it'd hold off the martial dips. However, when I first read the fluff sentence I had a bit of a different picture for the idea than the crunch bore out. What I had in mind was more akin to being under the protection of a blink spell for the duration of their move action. This provides similar protections against AOOs while also letting them blink through walls and such. Maybe at 9th level you could let them spend two uses to become incorporeal for that move action. You also don't really need the text about not granting new forms of movement as it's only ethereal creatures that gain the "any direction glide" movement, not blinking nor incorporeal creatures.
  • As I had suggested earlier, the arcane trickster really goes well with this order. I would be nice if wraith strike counted as a sneak attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and PrCs so you could theoretically build a beguiler 10/arcane trickster 10 without having to waste 3 levels multiclassing in rogue to qualify.
  • I like both the shadow tricks and peerless tricks. Very cool ways to customize your stygian step. One thing I'd like some more clarification on is whether or not stygian jump qualifies a beguiler to take the dimenional agility feat chain. If not it seems like it has relatively little worth, particularly since you can get it for free with dimensional step; if so it would have significant worth and might even be worthwhile to combine with dimensional step.
  • I'd definitely back a change to the aspect of mastery to treat concealment and perception as if her space were one step darker.

The quality of your work continues to astound me and I must say it has been a pleasure to help you craft this class.


Glad to have you back in the thread. I've implemented your suggestions and added them to the conversion documents below. I particularly enjoyed your insight into stygian step as what you had suggested was actually fairly close to my initial thoughts for the order's design.

Your mentions of the arcane trickster are quite interesting. The PrC definitely synergizes well with the beguiler, but I wonder where the sweet-spot would be for balancing the two. The 10/10 split you mention gets the most out of the arcane trickster, but misses out on the beguiler's swift feint and 3rd tier order power; a 13/7 split on the other hand gives the beguiler most of her core set of tools, but misses out on the surprise spells ability which is pretty killer for the baleful shadow.

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LT Silverstar wrote:
The quality of your work continues to astound me and I must say it has been a pleasure to help you craft this class.

Thank you so much. I'm quite pleased that you and Mark have been so incredibly helpful throughout the development of this conversion.


Honestly, I don't see the value in taking levels in arcane trickster. Your BAB craps out with the slow progression and you miss out on the high level beguiler powers. In return for giving up superb protections offered by the aspect of mastery and the ability for cloaked casting to cut through SR you end up with what? Sneak attack damage on area of effect spells through shadow evocation (typically a will save on top of a reflex save; not worth it to me since reflex saves are the most common good saves in the game). Sure 7d6 extra damage to anybody in the fireball's area is exciting, but I'd rather be doing 5d6 extra damage on an intensified scorching ray that cuts through spell resistance.

I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting and anything that doesn't grant full casting really slows the class down. With the new stygian step this class is already verging on what everybody wants to do with their shadowdancer, it can out death attack an assassin (although what can't?), and wraith strike combined with cloaked casting beats the arcane trickster/beguiler mix out of the water IMHO. If you want to run an arcane trickster you can still do the very common build: wizard (teleportation sub-school) 3 + 2 classes that grant sneak attack dice (the new brawler archetype snakebite striker is great for this since it has full BAB) + arcane trickster 10 + wizard X; with the most powerful 9th level casting in the game, that build would still be able to blow a fully specced out beguiler out of the water.


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting

To be fair, isn't that true for most classes in pathfinder?


ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting
To be fair, isn't that true for most classes in pathfinder?

Most, but not all. Look at the wizard in my build example. What does he lose by not taking those 12 levels of wizard? Well if he takes the magical knack trait he doesn't lose any CL. He loses 1 7th level, 1 8th level and 2 9th level spells per day (which is definitely somewhat painful). He misses out of 3 bonus feats. He doesn't lose any of his school power evolutions (although he does lose 360 feet/day teleport from dimensional steps and 30 feet/use from shift). He also ends up with a higher BAB as well as decent weapon/armor proficiencies and potentially useful extraordinary abilities from multiclassing. On the whole I'd call that a win. The reason the wizard can do this is because he doesn't really have a capstone to work towards, while the beguiler essentially has two. I stand by my statement: I'd only want to multiclass with this beguiler if I was taking a dip into it with another build.


They also lose 12 levels of favoured class bonuses (and if the character is an elf, that means 6 daily uses of shift), but I definitely see your point.


Penumbral Shadow wrote:

Honestly, I don't see the value in taking levels in arcane trickster. Your BAB craps out with the slow progression and you miss out on the high level beguiler powers. In return for giving up superb protections offered by the aspect of mastery and the ability for cloaked casting to cut through SR you end up with what? Sneak attack damage on area of effect spells through shadow evocation (typically a will save on top of a reflex save; not worth it to me since reflex saves are the most common good saves in the game). Sure 7d6 extra damage to anybody in the fireball's area is exciting, but I'd rather be doing 5d6 extra damage on an intensified scorching ray that cuts through spell resistance.

I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting and anything that doesn't grant full casting really slows the class down. With the new stygian step this class is already verging on what everybody wants to do with their shadowdancer, it can out death attack an assassin (although what can't?), and wraith strike combined with cloaked casting beats the arcane trickster/beguiler mix out of the water IMHO. If you want to run an arcane trickster you can still do the very common build: wizard (teleportation sub-school) 3 + 2 classes that grant sneak attack dice (the new brawler archetype snakebite striker is great for this since it has full BAB) + arcane trickster 10 + wizard X; with the most powerful 9th level casting in the game, that build would still be able to blow a fully specced out beguiler out of the water.

While it's definitely not an optimized build, it can be a useful setup for roleplaying. In fact, I could see this beguiler working for most of the PrCs it would qualify for. It's not necessarily going to be the strongest build, but it can add even more fun flavor to an already pretty interesting class.


Just had a thought, does the beguiler keep gaining savvy preparation spell slots if she takes levels in a PrC that grants additional spellcasting levels? With a cleric's domain spells it makes sense to continue the progression, since everything is granted at 1st level, but with the description of this ability it seems dependent on beguiler class levels. Also would those PrC levels grant access to second prepared slots?


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
Just had a thought, does the beguiler keep gaining savvy preparation spell slots if she takes levels in a PrC that grants additional spellcasting levels? With a cleric's domain spells it makes sense to continue the progression, since everything is granted at 1st level, but with the description of this ability it seems dependent on beguiler class levels. Also would those PrC levels grant access to second prepared slots?

My initial intention was to give them the first slot in that case, hadn't thought about the second slots. I may have to do a bit of a rewrite to clear that up.


I'd recommend giving them both slots. Given their inclusion in the spells known by level table I'd say they're fully a part of the beguiler's spellcasting.


I think the ex-beguiler section might use a bit of a rewrite since it was framed around the old, all-in spell list system.


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@ertw and everybody:

Thank you SO MUCH for all the effort you are doing in converting the Beguiler to PFRPG! Like Happy Pappy mentioned earlier, most conversions so far have been considerably uninspired and going into directions which missrepresented the original idea behind the concept of the Beguiler. I still wonder why Paizo didn't came out with a class that would fill on this niche as they did with their Magus taking the place of PHB2's Duskblade... but, guess those are "design line mysteries". So, just wanted to thank you for all the work, really.


Sorry about the delay in updating, life got in the way :p I've updated the conversion documents to clarify that savvy preparation slots are still gained with PrCs that advance spellcasting. I didn't see much of a need to update the ex-beguiler section (outside of removing mention of spells) since the spells known mechanic replaced the bonus spells mechanic. The last change I made was adding the sawtooth sabre to the beguiler's weapon proficiency list and a specific magic sabre.

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Seemos Yantra wrote:

@ertw and everybody:

Thank you SO MUCH for all the effort you are doing in converting the Beguiler to PFRPG! Like Happy Pappy mentioned earlier, most conversions so far have been considerably uninspired and going into directions which missrepresented the original idea behind the concept of the Beguiler. I still wonder why Paizo didn't came out with a class that would fill on this niche as they did with their Magus taking the place of PHB2's Duskblade... but, guess those are "design line mysteries". So, just wanted to thank you for all the work, really.

Thanks so much for your kind words! I think that paizo has mentioned that they're not particularly interested in converting classes from 3.5 splatbooks since they have their own ideas they want to work on.


I still think the ex-beguiler section could clarify what happens with order spells when a beguiler leaves an order and when he gains a new order. I'm really digging the blinkblade, that sounds like a really badass weapon. Any particular reason behind adding the sawtooth saber to the weapon proficiency list? It seems an oddly martial option given their other proficiencies (beguilers don't even get longswords which the sawtooth saber is built on).


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I still think the ex-beguiler section could clarify what happens with order spells when a beguiler leaves an order and when he gains a new order.

It works much like any other beguiler spell, spells that are known remain even without order or guild, but they cannot be learned until a new order accepts the beguiler.

Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I'm really digging the blinkblade, that sounds like a really badass weapon. Any particular reason behind adding the sawtooth saber to the weapon proficiency list? It seems an oddly martial option given their other proficiencies (beguilers don't even get longswords which the sawtooth saber is built on).

With the loss of the blackblade class feature from the baleful shadow, we were left with relatively few good weapon-based options for the beguiler. I added the sawtooth to give players a weapon that would be really useful for the kind of agile, two-weapon approach to fighting I envisioned for the class. Bonus points to the sawtooth since it's one of the few weapons that can be used effectively with the slashing grace feat (for Dex to damage).


ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I still think the ex-beguiler section could clarify what happens with order spells when a beguiler leaves an order and when he gains a new order.
It works much like any other beguiler spell, spells that are known remain even without order or guild, but they cannot be learned until a new order accepts the beguiler.

It still seems like that could warrant a mention in the text. Just a sentence that says something like "upon leaving an order, all order spells the beguiler does not already know are permenantly removed from the beguiler's spell list". IMHO it bears clarification since there aren't really any other mechanics in the game that remove spells from spell lists like that.


That's a good point, I've added the following text to the ex-beguiler section:

Quote:
All order spells she has not yet learned are permanently removed from her spell list.

Links above have been updated to include this.


Has anybody played this class at table? Can anybody give me a sense of where the power level of it is? I like the look of the class, but I'm worried it might be a bit OP to get past my DM. Also is the link in the October 27th post the most recent version of the class?


Anybody?


Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I just noticed that there were new posts in the thread. That is the most recent revision of the conversion; I don't foresee any more major changes, but there have been a few big changes in the past when I thought it was pretty much done. I'm sure I'm not the most unbiased judge of the conversion's balance, but you can find some of the reasons I felt justified in powering up the beguiler from it's 3.5 version on page 1 of this thread. Penumbral Shadow, LT Silverstar, or StealthDiabeetus might be able to offer a more impartial take on how it plays at table, but I don't really have any way to get in contact with them outside of this thread.


thx


Any word from them, I'm anxious to hear their experiences?


SylverFox wrote:
Any word from them, I'm anxious to hear their experiences?

Sorry, like I said I don't really have a way to contact them so we'd have to wait for them to see these messages.


Oh cool, I guess misread your first post. Hopefully the discussion in this thread will be enough to convince my DM. If she does say yes, where on Golarion do you think would be a good place for a guild to be based?


SylverFox wrote:
If she does say yes, where on Golarion do you think would be a good place for a guild to be based?

There are plenty of places a beguiler guild could be based out of. The easiest answer lies in the larger metropolises of Golarion (eg. Absalom, Katapesh, Sothis, Katheer, or Oppara). However, they could just as easily be found anywhere money is to be made, influence can be manipulated, or where magic is fully embraced. Maybe I can put together something on a few of the beguilers' guilds in Golarion.


That would be super helpful


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I've been playing the newest version of the baleful shadow order in one game and I have a player playing a wandering heart beguiler in another game I DM. I was part of some extensive play testing with LT Silverstar as well, so I'm fairly familiar with the way the class plays at the table. In my opinion I'd say the class is as balanced as any other full caster class. Most of the reasons for this are found earlier in this thread, but I'll provide some examples of how things can play out with this beguiler.

In a one-on-one battle, if you put any of the beguilers up against a wizard, cleric or sorcerer the beguiler is likely to lose. As an example, during our play testing we took a group of six level twenty beguilers on a mission to assassinate a monarch while he sat in judgement of our employer and walk out with all seven heads still attached to our necks. We did a fairly good job of sneaking past the mundane guards and traps laid out, we even managed to get a sniper through security check point (think airport security with detect magic instead of x-rays) with the butcher's crook crossbow. We managed to kill the king secretly, but our attempts to escape (by magically disguising ourselves to appear to be said king) were foiled by trueseeing. We didn't know a level 20 wizard had been manipulating the king and she immediately sent the entire castle's guard against us. Attempts to enchant soldiers to our cause were dispelled and time stop allowed the wizard to self-buff and summon additional assistance. Long story short, six players were locked down by a single well-played wizard.

One-on-one match-ups against martial characters tend to go in the beguiler's favor. There are a decent number of options in the enchantment/illusion bag to turn martials against one another or just befuddle them while you escape. I didn't quite expect the wandering heart beguiler to be a very combat proficient order, but with my player I've found that I have to watch him carefully or else he could breeze through my encounters. He's found an incredible variety of ways to circumvent my plans and short-cut tasks using his enchantment skills, but as a DM I have a decent number of tricks to counteract his shenanigans.

On the whole I'd say this conversion fits in well with the continuum of balance that the pathfinder system offers, falling a little below the sorcerer in terms of overall power.


Thanks so much I'll pass that info along to my DM.


Just heard back from my DM and she's ok'd me to use this! I'm excited to try out the arcane hand order. She had a few ideas for how to fit the guild into our current game, so we'll work off of that. Thanks for all your hard work ertw.


Glad to hear that you got the go-ahead to use the beguiler and hope you have fun with it. Sorry I haven't been able to get the guild description out, I've been traveling for most of the holiday and I'm still working on it.


ertw wrote:
Glad to hear that you got the go-ahead to use the beguiler and hope you have fun with it. Sorry I haven't been able to get the guild description out, I've been traveling for most of the holiday and I'm still working on it.

That's cool. I'd still like to see your ideas when you're done with them.


I'll definitely post it when I finish.


ertw wrote:
I'll definitely post it when I finish.

Awesome! :D


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Still working on the descriptions (juggling between a few projects in my spare time), but here's a list of the beguiler guilds I've conceived for Golarion:

Beguilers of Golarion:

Aspis Consorts
Location: Global
Sigil: Three intertwined asps stitched over the beguiler's old sigil.
Orders Trained: None.
Associated Factions: The Aspis Consortium.

Dark Lyceum
Location: Absalom
Sigil: Five inverted towers.
Orders Trained: All + Theurgic Brigands.
Associated Factions: The Arcanamirium, the First Guard.

Raven's Roost
Location: Westcrown (Cheliax)
Sigil: A raven's head.
Orders Trained: All
Associated Factions: Bellflower Network, Eagle Knights.

Shadow Priesthood
Location: Thronestep (Razmiran)
Sigil: The mask of Razmir.
Orders Trained: Wandering Heart
Associated Factions: Church of Razmir.

Order of the Pillory
Location: Egorian (Cheliax)
Sigil: The standard of Asmodeus.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Hellnights.

Gilded Knife
Location: Oppara (Taldor)
Sigil: A golden knife on a red field.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: None.

Masters of Coin
Location: Kerse (Druma)
Sigil: Two coins.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Prophets of Kalistrade.

The Sickle's Edge
Location: Ilizmagorti (Mediogalti Island)
Sigil: A bloody sickle.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: Red Mantis Assassins.

Forthbringer's Eye
Location: Sothis (Osirion)
Sigil: A osirian eye.
Orders Trained: All.
Associated Factions: Risen Guard.

Dragons of the Deep
Location: Quent and Port Peril (the Shackles)
Sigil: A two-headed dragon on a red or black field.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Shackles Pirates.

The Den
Location: Magnimar (Varisia)
Sigil: A wolf's head.
Orders Trained: All.
Associate Factions: Sczarni crime families.

The Four Winds
Location: Katheer (Quadria)
Sigil: Four quadrants of elemental icons.
Orders Trained: All.
Associated Factions: None.

Daggermark Mages' Guild
Location: Daggermark (River Kingdoms)
Sigil: A white, four-point star on a purple field.
Orders Trained: All.
Associated Factions: Daggermark Poisoners' Guild, Daggermark Assassins' Guild.

Adherants of the Mad
Location: Azir (Rahadoum)
Sigil: A hand with a wound across its palm.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associate Factions: Council of Elders.

The Inmates of the Fourth Floor
Location: Isarn (Galt)
Sigil: An open shackle.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Monolith Guards.

Koldukar's Vengeance
Location: Highhelm (Five Kings Mountains)
Sigil: Dranngvit's crossed picks, one of which is broken.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: None.

The Royal Illusionists' Guild
Location: New Stetven (Brevoy)
Sigil: An intricately filagreed spiral.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, and Baleful Shadow.
Associated Factions: House Surtova.

Imperial Daggers
Location: Canorate (Molthune)
Sigil: Molthune's sword and hammer on a black field.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: General Lords.

Family of the Harlequin
Location: Promise (Hermea)
Sigil: A sword run through the head of a dragon.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: None.


That's a really interesting list, can't wait to see some of these fleshed out. Particularly interested in how the aspis consorts work and why there are two guilds in cheliax and the shackles. Also I love anything Razmir in Golarion. I'm surprised to see so many baleful shadow guilds and so few arcane hand guilds. I had thought arcane hand would have been the most common.


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Still working on this, but haven't been able to make much headway as of late (life is busy, getting ready for new baby to arrive any day now). Just realized the other day that I've been working on this conversion for over a year.

Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I'm surprised to see so many baleful shadow guilds and so few arcane hand guilds. I had thought arcane hand would have been the most common.

I've rejigged the distribution of orders so they're now more even, the disparity was unintentional.

Finally, I've set up a shortened URL to make it easier to link to the conversion. You can find it at bit.ly/pathfinderbeguiler

Dark Archive

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I apologize for not saying anything before, but I do like this conversion a lot and plan on using the Beguiler of the Wandering Heart.

I admit, I do wish there was an Order for a merchant style Beguiler with or one with a connection to the nobility or elite of a city.


ertw wrote:
Still working on this, but haven't been able to make much headway as of late (life is busy, getting ready for new baby to arrive any day now).

Hey, congratulations! When is the baby due?


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
Hey, congratulations! When is the baby due?

Thanks! She was due this past Monday, but first babies are often a little late so we're stuck playing the waiting game.


ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
Hey, congratulations! When is the baby due?
Thanks! She was due this past Monday, but first babies are often a little late so we're stuck playing the waiting game.

Awesome, good luck!


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Thanks. Still waiting on baby, but I've managed to finish the guilds. I'll continue to work on putting it into a nicely formatted document like the conversion, but I figured I'd post it here for you guys to peruse:

Beguilers' Guilds of the Inner Sea:

Adherents of the Mad
Location: Azir (Rahadoum)
Sigil: A hand with a wound across its palm.
Orders Trained: All.
Associate Factions: Council of Elders.

"Why don't the rich lose children to plagues?" is the veiled call to action of the Adherents of the Mad God (a beguiler's guild whose full name is never spoken aloud). Spawned from a secretive cult dedicated to Nethys, the militant Mad Beguilers work to incite the downtrodden to action against the hypocrisy of Rahadoum. They send whispers through the streets of Azir claiming that the wealthy always seem to find black market healing for their ilk and that a truly fair state would welcome the help of the gods across all strata of society.

Beyond their campaign of whispers the Mad Beguilers employ a wide variety of tools to disrupt the atheist government. Wandering heart and baleful shadow beguilers manipulate selected members of the council of elders while ghastly claw beguilers eliminate those who cannot be swayed. The Mad Beguilers have been working for centuries to worm their influence into the office of the Keeper of the First Law, but any time they have gotten close their mark is removed by the Pure Legion.

Leadership: The Mad Beguilers' leadership mimics the nature of their deity with two opposing guildmasters wrestling for control. The current guildmasters Allizsah Kahldrukar (NE female tiefling cleric of Nethys 3/beguiler 10) and Wyran Drass (NG male aasimar cleric of Nethys 3/beguiler 10) have spent the last hundred years building a tentative consensus by which to lead. Under the duo's guidance the Adherents of the Mad have gotten closer to the Keeper than under any leadership before theirs.

***

Aspis Consorts
Location: Global
Sigil: Three intertwined asps stitched over the beguiler's old sigil.
Orders Trained: None.
Associated Factions: The Aspis Consortium.

The Aspis Consorts are an oddity amongst the beguilers of Golarion as they do not belong to a guild. Instead the Consorts are a loose collection of 51 master beguilers who are also at least silver tier agents of the Aspis Consortium. Since they hold no true allegiance to a single guild, the Consorts act as the closest things beguilers have to a global government. When conflicts arise between two or more guilds that cannot be settled, the beguilers turn to these masters to settle the matter at hand. While no force of law binds the beguilers to the Consorts' rulings, no guild (save for the Order of the Pillory) has ever countermanded their decisions.

Leadership: The identity of each individual Consort is unknown outside of the 51 masters; they operate from the shadows through a series of dead drops across Golarion.

***

Daggermark Mages' Guild
Location: Daggermark (River Kingdoms)
Sigil: A white, four-point star on a purple field.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Daggermark Poisoners' Guild, Daggermark Assassins' Guild.

In a city defined by its Assassins' and Poisoners' Guilds, it is not a great surprise that the Mages' Guild possesses its fair share of secrets. Those choosing to apprentice with the Daggermark Mages' Guild think they are merely applying to a wizards' college with a particular penchant for illusion and enchantment; in fact, some may spend their entire career thinking they are simply clever wizards. Those who advance far enough in the guild, however, are told the hidden truth of their order; that they are a secret guild of beguilers.

The apparent propriety of the Daggermark Mages gives them a rare position of trust and makes them one of the only Daggermark guilds trusted in the Inner Sea. The beguilers have leveraged this trust to broker an uneasy truce between the larger Daggermark guilds; trading cover to assassins and poisoners moving through the other River Kingdoms in exchange for the unquestioned safety of their beguilers. So long as the Daggermark Mages grant these favours, they have nothing to fear from the spectre of death that haunts most of Daggermark despite suspicions that they may be directly influencing Lord Livondar.

Leadership: As part of the charade of being a legitimate mages' guild, the Daggermark Mages' leadership closely resembles that of many magical colleges; at its head is a senior master known as the Arch Mage. The current Arch Mage of the guild is the unlikely Jegan Anto (N male fetchling beguiler 8) who has been an adept leader for the guild despite the fact that his own natural magic as a theurgic brigand is not well understood.

***

Dark Lyceum
Location: Absalom
Sigil: Five inverted towers.
Orders Trained: All + Theurgic Brigands.
Associated Factions: The Arcanamirium, the First Guard.

The Dark Lyceum is one of the oldest and largest beguilers' guilds on Golarion, founded shortly after the establishment of Absalom itself. The beguilers of the Lyceum have pledged their not insignificant talents toward the protection of the great city from any outside forces; not out of the good of their own hearts, but to allow them to continue their various illicit endeavours unfettered by interlopers. A constant stream of bribes and favours to the right people ensures that the Lyceum's goals are met with minimal opposition.

The Dark Lyceum itself is comprised of five seats of power housed in five buried towers spread amongst Absalom's districts:

  • The Hand focuses on the arcane power available to beguilers. Looming under the Wise Quarter, the Lyceum's arcane hand beguilers train and study, working closely with the mages of the Arcanamirium to maintain the city's magical defenses.
  • The Ear lurks in all corners of the Puddles listening to the rumblings of the downtrodden and taking advantage of those who are foolish enough to lurk in dark corners for too long. Located deep below the Little Inner Sea, a unique order of theurgic brigands gather to practice their bizarre arts.
  • The Mouth whispers its sweet words to the most important nobles of the Petal District. These wandering heart beguilers use their powers of subtle manipulation to ensure that the Lyceum's needs are always heard by the Grand Council and ensure that the malicious plans of visiting envoys never come to fruition. The riches contained within their lavish tower, built directly under the College of Mysteries, are the envy of the other orders in the Lyceum.
  • The Purse ensures that all branches of the guild are able to continue their important work. Whenever an underhanded deal occurs in the Coins district, these baleful shadow beguilers surely have a hand in the pockets of all parties involved (and a knife at their throats if it could threaten Absalom's safety). Their tower located below the ever-shifting Grand Bazaar features one of the most complex vaults in all of Golarion.
  • The Knife is also known as the silent seat since their leaders rarely say more than two words at any given meeting of the Council of Five. These ghastly claw beguilers make their home in the spartan tower amongst the Vents of the Azlanti Keep. They work in close contact with the First Guard and will often be dispatched abroad to eliminate external threats to the city before they even reach Absalom's walls.

Leadership: The Dark Lyceum is governed by the Council of Five; each member being the master of her seat of power. Every year a new Chair is selected from the Council's members by popular vote from the guild's masters with the stipulation that no seat of power can hold the position of Chair two years in a row. The current Chair of the Council, hailing from the Hand, is Lady Seriana Braggard (CG female human beguiler 14), an upstart noble who forsook her place as heiress to her family's title in order to join the ranks of the beguilers against her family's wishes.

***

The Den
Location: Magnimar (Varisia)
Sigil: A wolf's head.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associate Factions: Sczarni crime families.

The beguilers of the Den look to the untamed frontier of Varisia as hidden jewel just waiting for somebody wise enough to come and pluck it up. The secret value of this nation has made one of the youngest guilds in the Inner Sea also one of the region's fastest growing guilds. The Den's beguilers, known colloquially as the Frontier Wolves, have also found unlikely allies in the Sczarni crime families of Varisia; both groups agreeing that it more profitable and less dangerous to cooperate rather than fight to push each other out of the area.

Finding the more laissez-faire attitude of the Magnimarian government preferable to the Korvosan system, the Frontier Wolves are not shy about wading into the difficult matter of Varisian politics. Beguilers are often found inciting crowds to demand more democratic governance in Old Korvosa. While the Lord-Mayor cannot publicly endorse this kind of muckraking, many citizens of Magnimar consider his silence on the matter to be a tacit note of approval.

Leadership: An ever-expanding council of masters guides the course of the Den. This unwieldy system requires a strong guiding hand and that comes from the Alpha, a powerful master whose position is constantly tested by his lessers. Currently Ausk Kazon (CN male half-orc brawler 3/beguiler 5) holds this position and shows no sign of parting with his power.

***

Dragons of the Deep
Location: Quent and Port Peril (the Shackles)
Sigil: A two-headed dragon on a red or black field.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Shackles Pirates.

When the Pirate Lords of the Shackles united under the first Hurricane King in 4674 AR, the beguilers of the region saw their chance to run the long con on the buccaneers. Knowing that the Pirate Lords would eventually jockey for position to oust the sitting Hurricane King, the beguilers split into two guilds.

The loyalist beguilers who fly the red dragon flag advance the Hurricane King's agenda from their headquarters in Port Peril while the mercenary beguilers flying the black dragon flag operate out of Quent and sell their services to any of the Pirate Lords looking to unseat him. In reality, while the two-faced guild maintains the appearance of competition both sides actually work together for mutual benefit, sharing all the spoils that fall to them.

Over the centuries, many beguilers' guilds before the Dragons have thought to use the twin-guild structure in lands of constant turmoil, but in a few short decades the Shackles guilds have developed a system which has surpassed all prior attempts. As a result, the Aspis Consorts have sent a number of special envoys to embed themselves in the Dragons' guild halls and develop a strategy for exporting their success across Golarion.

Leadership: The unique structure of the Dragons' guild requires the leadership of three guildmasters; one to manage the loyalists, one to manage the mercenaries, and one to manage the interactions of the two. Currently these guildmasters are a set of three undine sisters. Pari Pistrix (LN female undine druid 2/beguiler 5) is the youngest sister; she is quiet and conciliatory making her a perfect fit for the Hurricane King's court. Iryani Pistrix (CN female undine bard 2/beguiler 5) is the middle sister; her forceful personality and take-no-prisoners attitude allows her to wrangle the cacophony of voices offered by the upstart Pirate Lords. Calah Pistrix (N female undine summoner 5/beguiler 5) is the eldest sister; her complex mind allows her to keep all of the moving parts of her complex guild running smoothly with neither side discovering the secret of the beguilers' deception.

***

Family of the Harlequin
Location: Promise (Hermea)
Sigil: A sword run through the head of a dragon.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: None.

When the ancient dragon Mengkare invited a particular elderly wizard into his newly founded utopia, he had no idea the future frustrations he had brought upon himself. Amongst the mage's collection of esoteric artefacts was a powerful, intelligent blinkblade known as the Harlequin Brier (CG +3 anarchic wounding blood crystal sawtooth sabre) which took instant offense to the highly regimented nature of the so-called paradise created by the Glorious Endeavor. Acting in direct opposition to the captive island's governance, the Brier spent decades forming a secret society in the hidden corners of Promise.

Over the Brier's century on Hermea it has trained a small, but talented group of baleful shadow and wandering heart beguilers; a tight-knit group known as the Family of the Harlequin. These beguilers are key players in the secretive underbelly of the Hermean populace, those who oppose the rule of the gold dragon. They see the island as a prison and their restrained culture a dystopia. The Harlequin Beguilers spread the whispers of their discontent throughout Promise and are instrumental in smuggling people to and from the island prison.

Leadership: While the Harlequin Brier directs the guild, it selects its wielder as a titular guildmaster. The Brier's current wielder is a young Mwangi woman named Abena Vatonga (CG female human beguiler 6) whose body is as strong as her mind. Many in the guild are hopeful that the combination of the pair's skills may finally allow the resistance to free the Hermean people from Mengkare's tyranny.

***

Forthbringer's Eye
Location: Sothis (Osirion)
Sigil: The Eye (osirian hieroglyph).
Orders Trained: All.
Associated Factions: Risen Guard.

Little happens in Sothis that escapes the gaze of the Forthbringer's Eye. These beguilers act as a massive spy network in the direct employ of the Ruby Prince. The Eye is always watching for the slightest signs of dissent, reporting disturbances to the Risen Guard or silencing these whispers themselves if it must be done discretely.

A rarity amongst beguilers' guilds, the Eye does not permit its members to engage in acts of thievery. Instead of resorting to theft, agents of the Eye bring wealth to the guild by acting as information brokers to private interests; so long as the secrets they traffic do not harm the Forthbringer, these beguilers will auction the precious information they gather to the highest bidders.

Leadership: The guildmaster of the Forthbringer's Eye, known as the Mistress of Whispers, who is handpicked by the First Captain of the Risen Guard is always female and always drawn from the baleful shadow order. The current Mistress is a low-born Vudrani woman named Hema Sumna Khat (LG female human beguiler 8/Master Spy 2). Little is known of her life before entering the Eye, but she made her name as an apprentice when she infiltrated and eliminated a cabal of Keleshites who had enticed the Ruby Prince's cupbearer to poison his wine.

***

The Four Winds
Location: Katheer (Qadira)
Sigil: Four quadrants of elemental icons.
Orders Trained: All.
Associated Factions: None.

Born of the Qadiran nomads, the Four Winds beguilers' guild fights to push foreign rule out of the Gateway to the East. By disrupting trade to and from Casmaron, as well as planting the seeds of revolution in the people of Katheer, the Winds have been fighting their silent insurgency against the Keleshite interlopers for millennia. These sage beguilers are patient despite the protracted nature of their struggle; they know that over time the desert winds can wear down even the tallest mountain.

The Winds can afford to be patient in their conflict given the longevity of their all elemental-kin guild. Each beguiler has passed their teachings down through family lines, resulting in orders strongly defined by race. The ifrits of the wandering heart ignite passions in all who lay eyes upon them. The oreads of the ghastly claw act with slow deliberation rarely found in other quarters of the world. The sylphs of the baleful shadow weave their shadowy illusions as effortlessly as the breeze. The undines of the arcane hand wield mystic might as powerful as the crashing tides.

Leadership: Leadership within the Four Winds is based around strong iconography; each guildmaster carving out a legend for herself over the centuries of her reign. The guildmaster creates her own mythos built around a unique title of her choosing. The Winds are currently led by the powerful and graceful Zephyr Queen (NG female sylph beguiler 14) whose shadow magic is comparable to that of any master evoker around Golarion.

***

Gilded Knife
Location: Oppara (Taldor)
Sigil: A golden knife on a red field.
Orders Trained: Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: None.

The game of political intrigue played by the Taldan nobility can be a source of great profit for those willing to get their hands dirty and it so happens that the Gilded Knife's assassins possess an ideal toolset to earn that blood money. The task of upsetting the balance of the aristocracy is not without risk, however, as the Knives often find themselves drawing the attention of the Lion Blades; this has led to a century-long feud between the two factions. Regardless of this silent war, business is still swift in Oppara as there will always be a noble with a pile of gold and a desire to move up in his station.

It is believed that the Knives are headquartered in Oppara's Westpark district in order to be close to both their targets and their benefactors, but no one is certain. Even beguilers from other guilds aren't permitted access to the secret lair for fear that they might be Lion Blade agents in disguise. While finding the Knives' base of operations is difficult, locating their agents is as simple as dining at one of the right restaurants. By reporting a tarnished knife and returning the utensil wrapped in a napkin with the name of the target written upon it, the message will surely find its way into the beguilers' hands.

Leadership: The Knives' leadership is shrouded in as much secrecy as their headquarters. Little is known about the Taldan guildmaster beyond his title of the Whetstone (NE male human beguiler 6/slayer 3).

***

The Inmates of the Fourth Floor
Location: Isarn (Galt)
Sigil: An open shackle.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Baleful Shadow, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Monolith Guards.

As the tides turned against the aristocracy of Galt, the bloodthirsty mob had failed to notice that many of those imprisoned on the fourth floor of the infamous Monolith Gaol had a penchant for magic; particularly a small group of beguilers who had been funneling the wealth of the aristocrats to neighbouring countries. While many saw peril, the beguilers saw promise. Through subtle means, they were able to influence the guards and save their number from the sting of Madame Margaery.

Over the decades as governments rose and fell in Isarn, the Inmates of the Fourth Floor gathered their power; tightening their grip on those tasked with guarding them and bolstering their numbers by teaching their dark arts to those with a magical knack and expelling those who didn't live up to their expectations to the cruel hands of fate. The full control exercised by these beguilers is completely unknown to the higher powers of the Monolith thanks to ingenious use of enchantments and illusions.

While the beguilers initially expanded their ranks through those imprisoned amongst them, they can now summon beguilers from all over the Inner Sea through the teleportation portals they have constructed during their tenure in the gaol. Beguilers from foreign guilds often pass through the Monolith to utilize portals leading directly into the secret chambers below Azurestone, plundering its many treasures and relics.

Leadership: The "imprisoned" beguilers do not have a particular hierarchy of leadership beyond the standard master/apprentice relationship, per se. Normally each master beguiler keeps to herself, but when conflicts arise they are taken before the Eight Elders; this council of the most senior amongst their ranks will settle these disputes in a way that is amicable to both involved parties.

***

Keepers of the Thicket
Location: Greengold (Kyonin)
Sigil: A thorny branch on a green field.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, Elusive Wildlings, Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: Wasp Queens.

As the kingdoms of men encroach on the lands of elves, there is a watch that must be kept to ensure that their actions are held in check. Throughout Kyonin, especially in the burgeoning settlement of Greengold, the beguilers known as the Keepers of the Thicket maintain this watch. These beguilers ensure that the Queen's law is observed within the city and vigilantly intercept any humans who attempt to use Greengold as a passage deeper into Kyonin.

The Keepers' watch is not merely a matter of policing the human populace in their charge. Using any of the considerable means at their disposal, they make sure that undesirable businesses attempting to start operations in Kyonin find the venture to be highly unprofitable. The Keepers also maintain strong ties to the Wasp Queens thieves' guild, extending the beguilers' reach and influence. Those who are particularly resistant to the beguilers' "suggestions" that they aren't welcome in Greengold, often find the Wasps exacting a heavy price from them beyond Kyonin's borders.

Leadership: The Keepers' leader is known as the Watch Commander which, given the longevity of elves, is a position she will often hold for many centuries. As such, the guild was amazed when a human was named Watch Commander last year; yet few amongst the Keepers could argue that her connection to the earth was any less than that of a native born Kyonin elf. The true nature of Cassandra Silvermane's (NG female kitsune rogue 3/beguiler 9) connection to nature is a secret only known to a handful of close advisors. The elusive wildling has been posing as a human since being cast out of her xenophobic druidic clan due to her strange magical powers and saw no reason to end the ruse even amongst her elven guildmates.

***

Koldukar's Vengeance
Location: Highhelm (Five Kings Mountains)
Sigil: Dranngvit's crossed picks, one of which is broken.
Orders Trained: Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: Skyseekers.

Deep within the halls of Highhelm, there are rumblings about the tarnished history of the dwarven people. One of the loudest voices amongst the calls toward a return to the glory of old belongs to the ghastly claw beguilers of Koldukar's Vengeance. This radial faction is focused on recapturing the lost Sky Citadels in Belkzen and finally stamping out the Orcish menace. While the Vengeful Beguilers are a fringe group amongst the dwarven court, they have been consolidating their power for centuries and they get more powerful with every day that passes.

Beguiling is a family business in the Five Kings Mountains, and Koldukar's Vengeance is built around the foundations of House Yurdadun; in fact, the guild hall itself can be found deep under the family's estate in the Helmskeep district. Its membership is entirely comprised of members of the family and the house readily trades in its name (highly valued since their lineage can be directly traced back to the first builders of the Sky Citadels) to extend their influence over the direction of the dwarven nation.

Leadership: As a family run organization, this beguilers' guild is led by the family's eldest members. The guild is currently steered by the aging patriarch Dolgrin Yurdadun (LN male dwarf fighter 5/beguiler 10), but his current state of health leaves the guild in a state of flux. The reins of leadership would normally be handed to his eldest child Bodill Yurdadun (LN female dwarf slayer 5/beguiler 5), but tensions ran high between Dolgrin and his daughter due to her refusal to take a husband and expand the family's influence. There are fears that the more politically minded amongst the minor members of the house might push to install Bodill's younger brother Morgrym Yurdadun (N male dwarf aristocrat 7/ beguiler 1) as a puppet.

***

Masters of Coin
Location: Kerse (Druma)
Sigil: Two coins.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Prophets of Kalistrade.

There is a timeless aphorism that says "Where there is coin, so too are there beguilers." Nowhere on Golarion is this truer than in Druma. While most beguilers' guilds operate in the shadows, with few citizens knowing they even exist, the Masters of Coin work openly, offering their services to any who can pay. Those who hire these beguilers bring them into their business dealings in order to ply the other side with illusions and enchantments. In this way, hiring a beguiler can be well worth their fee. However, the Masters of Coin also pledge not to use their powers against any of their clients; as such hiring a beguiler can also act as insurance against falling victim to those same spells.

The result of this clever scheme is that, at many of the high stakes business deals completed in Kerse, beguilers sit on both sides of the table, do nothing, and collect fees from both parties. Surprisingly enough, this has produced an atmosphere of trade within Druma's borders that is even less fettered by magical interference than it was before the beguilers' arrival; this has earned the Masters of Coin great favour in the eyes of the Kalistocracy.

Leadership: The Masters of Coin are ruled by a democratic council comprised of all the guild's masters known as the Weighted Scales. The most senior member of the Scales acts as guildmaster, a position known as the Master of Weights and Measures. The current guildmaster is Sarvin Varros (LN male tiefling beguiler 7/Master Spy 4), an aged scholar who has dedicated most of his life to the unsuccessful attempt to export the Druman guild's scheme to Katapesh.

***

Order of the Pillory
Location: Egorian (Cheliax)
Sigil: The standard of Asmodeus.
Orders Trained: Baleful Shadow, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Hellknights.

Trained out of pilfered tomes and with stolen knowledge, the Order of the Pillory Cheliax's unsanctioned beguilers' guild; the Pillory is a relatively secret arm of the Hellknight order. The mages of the Pillory, known as Hellknight Deceivers, work in close contact with the Signifiers of the Gate and the Paralictors of the Scourge to "handle" those who oppose the rule of the diabolists; be it by the enchantments of a wandering heart beguiler, the illusions of a baleful shadow beguiler, or the knife of a ghastly claw beguiler.

The Order of the Pillory is actively antagonistic to any beguilers outside their ranks, often suspecting them to be offering aid to the Raven's Roost. Any person found in possession of a beguiler's sigil by the Hellknights is immediately turned over to the Pillory, usually ending with an execution. The Aspis Consorts no longer issue rulings on complaints involving the Pillory as the Order has ignored countless prior rulings.

Citadel Umbra, the headquarters the Pillory, is an underground tower built in mockery of the Dark Lyceum. It is located directly under the statue of Queen Abrogail I in Egorian's Triumph district. Some say that, in the dead of night, you can sometimes hear the anguished cries of the secret prisoners held within the citadel.

Leadership: The current Vicarius of the Order is Princess Beatrix Thrune (LE female human beguiler 5/Hellknight Deceiver 10), younger sister to Queen Abrogail II. The baleful shadow beguiler is said to take a perverse pleasure in mortifying the prisoners in her charge with powerful illusions of their greatest fears. Some of the Deceivers under her command worry that her zeal to destroy the Raven's Roost may eventually lead to her downfall, but dare not speak such suspicions aloud.

***

Raven's Roost
Location: Westcrown (Cheliax)
Sigil: A raven's head.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Ghastly Claw, and Wandering Heart.
Associated Factions: Bellflower Network, Eagle Knights.

The Raven's Roost is the officially sanctioned guild of Cheliax; forever at war against the Order of Pillory. When they aren't lining their pockets with the gold of a decaying empire, the Ravens do all they can to destabilize the diabolists' hold on Cheliax and Isger. Working closely with any force that opposes House Thrune, the Ravens offer the support of their illusions and enchantments guide slaves liberated by the Bellflower Network to escape Cheliax and mask undercover Eagle Knight agents as they pass into enemy territory.

The Ravens make their headquarters in a specialized extradimensional space, the magical entrances to which are constantly moved around the high towers of Westcrown's Coin Sector. The Ravens have even developed their own dialect of the Charlatan's Cant that is only used by members who have been absent from Westcrown for an extended period and are seeking an entry point. This elaborate system is a necessity as they are eternally bound in a cat-and-mouse game with the Hellknights who seek their destruction.

Leadership: The Raven's Roost guildmaster is a prime target for the Hellknights, so he rarely departs from the extradimensional space. Even so, it is of critical importance that he keeps a clearly named successor waiting in the wings at all times. There are some rumours that the Ravens' ambitious young guildmaster, Kraugh Ebonfeather (CN male tengu beguiler 8/assassin 1), may have arranged the tragic accident that cut his predecessor's life short.

***

The Royal Illusionists' Guild
Location: New Stetven (Brevoy)
Sigil: An intricately filigreed spiral.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, and Baleful Shadow.
Associated Factions: House Surtova.

One of the more peculiar beguilers' guilds on Golarion, the Royal Illusionists of Brevoy are actually widely known and well respected. Instead filling their coffers by stealing and swindling, these beguilers trade their mastery over illusion magic for the patronage of the crown. As a result of this partnership, the reputation of the Brevoy guild draws aspiring illusionists from all across the Inner Sea.

Being under the auspices of the Dragonscale Throne does not remove all risk from the Royal Illusionists' practice. They often find themselves the victims of their fellow beguilers' reputations; these mages are easy targets for the slanderous whispers of those who wish to disrupt the rule of House Surtova. Calling on the dark nature of their sister guilds, there are wide spread rumors that the Royal Illusionists are secretly members of House Rogarvia, using beguiling enchantments to bend the King-Regent to their whims.

Leadership: The Royal Illusionists fall directly under the auspices of the Royal Mages' Guild, and are housed within the guild hall in the Ruby Fortress. The Grandmistress of the Illusionist School, a position currently held by Astrid Lebeda (LG female human beguiler 8), sits on the Conclave of Grandmasters beside the highest ranking masters of the other schools of magic.

***

Shadow Priesthood
Location: Thronestep (Razmiran)
Sigil: The mask of Razmir.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, and Wandering Heart
Associated Factions: Church of Razmir.

As the tides turned in the Duchy of Melcat, so too did the loyalty of Aerduin's beguilers' guild. Fleeing the city before Razmir rained fire upon it and pledging fealty to the living god, they found themselves favoured amongst his followers. After decades the Shadow Priesthood has wormed its way into the very heart of the Church of Razmir. When dissent rises in the very heart of Razmiran, the Shadow Priests are called from their ivory towers in Thronestep to set the public's mind at ease; charismatic leadership and potent enchantments leave little room for the mundane populace to resist their charms.

The Shadow Priesthood is one of the more insular beguilers' guilds on Golarion, only eclipsed by the Order of the Pillory. Even so, they still occasionally run afoul of the neighbouring Keepers of the Thicket. Unlike the isolationist Chelish guild, however, the Shadow Priests have always abided by the rulings of the Aspis Consorts.

Leadership: The guildmaster of the Shadow Priesthood, known as the Whispering Mask, is handpicked by the living god himself. Serving at Razmir's pleasure, the Whispering Mask can find herself replaced on a whim; even worse, some guildmasters have disappeared without a word beyond naming her replacement. As the current Whispering Mask Ember Strongheart (LE female ifrit beguiler 9), still loves to put her seductive charms to work in service of her chosen deity.

***

The Sickle's Edge
Location: Ilizmagorti (Mediogalti Island)
Sigil: A bloody sickle.
Orders Trained: Arcane Hand, Baleful Shadow, and Ghastly Claw.
Associated Factions: Red Mantis Assassins.

The Red Mantis and the beguilers have found themselves rivals at many turns, but the rivalry has never been as fierce as when an upstart orphan returned to Ilizmagorti's shores to found a guild of ghastly claw assassins. Since that day, the Sickle's Edge has grown from a minor annoyance to a thorn in the Red Mantis' side. The Sickles are vying for the Red Mantis' reputation as the de facto assassin's guild in the Inner Sea Region, and their less lawful bent has granted them significant inroads in many quarters.

Ever the underdogs, the Sickles use contacts within other beguilers' guilds to extend their reach to a near-global scale. Furthermore, by operating alongside arcane hand and baleful shadow beguilers, the efficiency of a Sickle's Edge assassin is nearly unmatched. These advantages have allowed the beguilers to grow directly under the nose of their biggest competitor, but further gains may end up drawing the ire of the Red Mantis.

Leadership: The current guildmaster of the Sickle's Edge is actually its founder Luro Akaash (NE male sylph beguiler 8). Originally an orphan living on Ilizmagorti streets, he learned his trade under the Gilded Knife in Taldor. He returned to Mediogalti Island nearly a decade ago to establish the Sickles.


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I just found this thread from the other one higher up on this boards. I just wanted to say this is a really great looking conversion. I'm excited to use it for a few NPC in my upcoming campaign.


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Thanks for the kind words, Catman. Keep me updated on how you feel it plays.

Just to keep you guys updated, I've been working on the formatted version of the Beguilers of the Inner Sea Region document. I've added two prestige classes specifically for Golarion's beguilers, still working on some feats, equipment, and magic items to with them. You can find that at: bit.ly/innerseabeguilers.


Can't wait to go over that tonight when I get home. Looks really cool.

Grand Lodge

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I just found this myself and I'm very excited to trying this conversion out. I'm going to point my DM to this thread and propose a character to him sometime soon.

Thanks for all the work you put into this class! I'll update on any forthcoming progress after the game starts. :)


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting
To be fair, isn't that true for most classes in pathfinder?
Most, but not all. Look at the wizard in my build example. What does he lose by not taking those 12 levels of wizard? Well if he takes the magical knack trait he doesn't lose any CL. He loses 1 7th level, 1 8th level and 2 9th level spells per day (which is definitely somewhat painful). He misses out of 3 bonus feats. He doesn't lose any of his school power evolutions (although he does lose 360 feet/day teleport from dimensional steps and 30 feet/use from shift). He also ends up with a higher BAB as well as decent weapon/armor proficiencies and potentially useful extraordinary abilities from multiclassing. On the whole I'd call that a win. The reason the wizard can do this is because he doesn't really have a capstone to work towards, while the beguiler essentially has two. I stand by my statement: I'd only want to multiclass with this beguiler if I was taking a dip into it with another build.

Being an entire level of spells behind is a really big deal for that wizard. Absolutely not worth anything he has gained. Looking at it from the 20th level perspective is extremely misleading because it assumes he just has less spells, when actually he is behind on spells.

I mean, it's not awful..... but it's not a win by any measure.


Blakmane wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
ertw wrote:
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I really feel like PrCs are a trap for this class, the endgame is just too tempting
To be fair, isn't that true for most classes in pathfinder?
Most, but not all. Look at the wizard in my build example. What does he lose by not taking those 12 levels of wizard? Well if he takes the magical knack trait he doesn't lose any CL. He loses 1 7th level, 1 8th level and 2 9th level spells per day (which is definitely somewhat painful). He misses out of 3 bonus feats. He doesn't lose any of his school power evolutions (although he does lose 360 feet/day teleport from dimensional steps and 30 feet/use from shift). He also ends up with a higher BAB as well as decent weapon/armor proficiencies and potentially useful extraordinary abilities from multiclassing. On the whole I'd call that a win. The reason the wizard can do this is because he doesn't really have a capstone to work towards, while the beguiler essentially has two. I stand by my statement: I'd only want to multiclass with this beguiler if I was taking a dip into it with another build.

Being an entire level of spells behind is a really big deal for that wizard. Absolutely not worth anything he has gained. Looking at it from the 20th level perspective is extremely misleading because it assumes he just has less spells, when actually he is behind on spells.

I mean, it's not awful..... but it's not a win by any measure.

Okay, that's a fair point about the 20th level perspective, but I still think the wizard is better off for going the prestige class route than the beguiler.

For most wizards being behind a level of spells is a big deal, but an arcane trickster is likely built around getting sneak attack to go off. That means a good source of denying your opponent his dex until you can cast a spell (either the 1st level teleportation school power or the 1st level spell vanish will do the trick) and a weaponlike spell to set it off. The most common ones of these are shocking grasp and snowball (both 1st level spells which can be intensified before you even dip out of wizard) or scorching ray (2nd level). All of these tools are there before you start stalling in terms of levels. Most higher level damage spells commonly used for blasting (eg. fireball) are area effect or don't give an attack roll, so they can't trigger a sneak attack. Yes the wizard is delayed on his utility spells to help his survivability, but he gets most of the tools he needs for his one trick pony early enough to not matter. The beguiler on the other hand doesn't get the only spell he can use for arcane trickster sneak attacks (shadow evocation) until 10th level, has a worse sneak attack progression throughout the build, and gives up his two most powerful order powers (including the level 20 capstone).

Sure the wizard won't be the most effective character in the game, but he definitely ends up better off than the beguiler in this case.


ertw wrote:
Just to keep you guys updated, I've been working on the formatted version of the Beguilers of the Inner Sea Region document. I've added two prestige classes specifically for Golarion's beguilers, still working on some feats, equipment, and magic items to with them. You can find that at: bit.ly/innerseabeguilers.

This is really awesome work, ertw! I'm excited to see the rest of it.


Penumbral Shadow wrote:
Can't wait to go over that tonight when I get home. Looks really cool.

So here are my impressions:

  • The guilds themselves are fantastic, tons of options and variations to fit beguilers of all stripes. You really do have a way with flavor that is incredibly compelling.
  • I think the beguiling discipline ability of the hellknight deceiver is really interesting, finally something that might make me reconsider my opinions about PrCs for beguilers. The focus on two-bladed swords is interesting, fitting with the idea of the hellknight orders' favored weapons, and these abilities finally might actually make the two-bladed sword work (I never understood why they'd deny finesse to a weapon built to be used with a high dex combat form like TWF). The only thing that seems kind of out of place is armored mage, a beguiler in medium armor seems uncharacteristic.
  • I haven't quite gotten a feel for the stygian skirmisher. I see what you're trying to do, trading magic for BAB, but I'm just not sure how well it fits. Baleful shadow and ghastly claw beguilers seem like prime candidates for this PrC, but baleful shadow gets denied the defining ability for the class. Still it's a very interesting mesh of the current and previous versions of baleful shadow. The combat schools are a really cool idea, but contingency blade seems like an odd choice for a high level ability since it steps away from the specialization created at prior levels of the class.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing what else you've got in store for us. Great work!

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