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As the title asks. I have several character ideas for PF society that I am considering before I join and one of them is a character working towards either Cleric/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge or Wizard/Oracle/Mystic Theurge. The reason for not going cleric/wizard? RP. I prefer the RP the former two options as it's explained off as my character having latent magical power within them(either arcane or divine depending on whether or not I go cleric/sorc or wiz/oracle) that they don't realize they have which "awakens" at some point and thus they are drawn to explore it while not abandoning their old profession entirely. Wizard/Cleric MT RP basically demands that you follow a god interested in arcane magic and thus study wizardry along with being a cleric as a result, and I much prefer the more open-ended RP of the cleric/sorc or wiz/oracle combo to the restrictive fluff of cleric/wizard.
However, that's not what my concern is here. My major concern is that without access to the 3.5e feat Practiced Spellcaster is it even worth playing a mystic theurge in PF society? I know the magical knack trait helps some, but is that enough or is MT without Practiced Spellcaster just not worth it in the end?
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I'm all for early entry, but I don't think any early entry methods exist in PF? I thought all the tricks for early entry into MT(Illumian, Alternate Source Spell, Sanctum Spell etc..) where 3.5e exclusive? Since 3.5e stuff is not allowed in PF society I don't think early entry to MT is possible in PF society unless there is some trick for it that dosen't rely on 3.5e material that I am not aware of?
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I see, so in that case I could get in with cleric 3/sorc 1 or Oracle 4/Wiz 1? What about Wiz 3/Oracle 1? Or do SLAs only count as arcane spells for this? Also, I didn't know sub-races like muse-touched where allowed in PF society? Do you need to unlock them with a perk or can you take them by default?
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Ok, again, thats good. Also, I assume Tieflings qualify with their Darkness SLA along with Aasimiar. Also...in regards to Tiefling subraces, do you have to roll for them in PF society or can you choose them freely as you can Aasimiar sub-races? Also, Wizard 1/Oracle 4 seems like another viable entry for this character RP wise and crunch wise just like Cleric 3/Sorc 1, since both have the whole "starts as one profession, unlocks latent magic and then pursues both their new and old powers at the same time" fluff I was going for.
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I believe with the new FAQ, you might be able to use the Daylight spell of the Asimar race to qualify for the 3rd level arcane slot, and get into the class, with 1 level of an arcane casting class, and 2nd level Divine spells ( perhaps 3rd level cleric, 4th level oracle.
So hypothetically you could do say 1 level of sorcerer, 3 levels of cleric?
Is the Mystic Theurge worth it?
I have a 14 level Mystic Theurge in PFS. He is a 3rd level cleric of Pharasma/ 3rd level Wizrd Necromancer / 8th level Mystic Theurge.
I have enjoyed playing the character. In terms of role playing he is a "priest' of Pharasma.
He uses his necromancy as a tool to combat the undead. He never animates the dead.
In terms of spell casting, he uses summoning spells, and buffing spells for the party. He also has plenty of utility spells as well ( Dark vision, See invisibility, Invisibility purge) etc.
and a few evocation spells.
I guess i use him to support the rest of the party.
The first few levels are a challenge to get through. With a clric3/wizard/ MT build, you hit third level spells at 8th level, 4th level spells at 9th level, Fifth level spells at 11 level, and sixth level spells at 13 level. Things get interesting the higher level spells you have access to.
Some interesting spell combinations....
Haste, Prayer, Bless, curse, Slow.
Spectral hand..... use to channel touch spells. If used in conjunction with an Arcane Eye spell, you can go into other rooms, with the arcane eye, and keep the spectral hand in sight so it doesn't wink out. I would also use spectral hand to deliver cure spells. I would also use Spectral hands to deliver his Domain ability: Gentle Rest, Rebuke undeath...and his necromancy school ability Grave touch.
I found through the cleric class, i got earlier access to nice 5th level spells like true seeing, plane shift, 4th Scrying, bestow curse.
I know some people will say simply play a witch.....
All in all, I enjoyed my mystic theurge character. I hope this helps .
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How does trickery domain let you qualify? It dosen't explicitly give you an SLA (it says the ability works "as a single mirror image" rather then saying it gives you mirror image as an SLA)? Likewise, I can find no domain called fate inquisition that isn't a third party, so if you could give me a source for that domain I'd be grateful.
Wow.. a necromancer who doesn't want to have an army of shambling undead following him for his "good" deeds. What a breath of fresh air!
I have a 14 level Mystic Theurge in PFS. He is a 3rd level cleric of Pharasma/ 3rd level Wizrd Necromancer / 8th level Mystic Theurge.I have enjoyed playing the character. In terms of role playing he is a "priest' of Pharasma.
He uses his necromancy as a tool to combat the undead. He never animates the dead.
Impressive - I thought PFS capped at 12?
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Inquisitions are similar to domains, with no spells
The copycat SLA works like mirror image
Edit: added the trickery domain.
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Oh, you mean the inquisitor version of domains. I didn't know clerics could take those. Thanks for the input. Also, no word on the trickery domain for qualification?
EDIT: So, even though it works like mirror image it dosen't say it counts as a spell-like ability. Is there some other ruling that states that class features that mimic spells but don't explicitly say that they are SLAs still count as SLAs? I'm asking this because I was going to be taking the trickery domain even if it didn't let me qualify since it fits the character I'm going for.
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No it won't. Tiefling's Darkness, or any of the other aasimiar sub-race SLAs that are level 2 would, however. Also, speaking of Tieflings, the question regarding whether or not Pathfinder Society makes you roll for Tiefling sub-races has yet to be answered and I would appreciate if somebody could clear that up for me.
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Ok, cool. One more question, would the fate inquisition be a legal choice for a cleric of Charon? I know it is for Phrasma, but Charon also has death in his portfolio and death is one of the portfolio aspect that is listed as being valid for choosing the fate domain. My two concepts right now, RP-wise, are a neutral cleric of charon/undead bloodline sorc/MT(If fate inquisition is a legal domain choice for a Charon cleric) or a chaotic neutral cleric of dahak/draconic bloodline sorc/MT...
There is another combination of classes that would meet your background. A Bard/Oracle combination could be interesting. If you go for the lore mystery and take Lore Keeper and Sidestep you and take Noble Scion or War CHA does most of you work for you. It gives you AC and initiative and knowledge skills.
The idea of a normal to low INT character having sky high knowledge skills is not something you see every day. It would almost be worth dumping INT just for the sheer ridiculousness of it. You can also use feats to pick up more revelations.
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EDIT: So, even though it works like mirror image it dosen't say it counts as a spell-like ability. Is there some other ruling that states that class features that mimic spells but don't explicitly say that they are SLAs still count as SLAs? I'm asking this because I was going to be taking the trickery domain even if it didn't let me qualify since it fits the character I'm going for.
Copycat (Sp): You can create an illusory double of yourself as a move action. This double functions as a single Mirror Image...
The (Sp) there stands for Spell-Like Ability.
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Impressive - I thought PFS capped at 12?Wow.. a necromancer who doesn't want to have an army of shambling undead following him for his "good" deeds. What a breath of fresh air!
I have a 14 level Mystic Theurge in PFS. He is a 3rd level cleric of Pharasma/ 3rd level Wizrd Necromancer / 8th level Mystic Theurge.I have enjoyed playing the character. In terms of role playing he is a "priest' of Pharasma.
He uses his necromancy as a tool to combat the undead. He never animates the dead.
Makarion, I began playing this character in November of 09. I played through the "Seeker" or as it was called the "Retirement" arc called Eyes of the Ten. Afterwards my character was at 13.2 level. Last year I then got to play in a Race for the Rune Carved Key special and that last Xp put my character up to 14 level. A couple of months ago, I got to play in the special "Siege of the Diamond City" so my character has one more XP 14.1.
Unless I find a group to play through the module Academy of Secrets, I will most likely only play this character at the convention specials one a year.
Lazer X thank you. My original idea, when i first made the character back in 09, was to have a character who could both turn and command the undead ( with levels of cleric, and the turn undead feat, and levels of necromancer with command undead.) My Idea was a character who manipulated both positive and negative energy in a "ying and Yang" way. Life and death were part of the same natural cycle, and to better understand life, you needed to also understand the forces of death, so on and so forth. I really liked Pharasma, how she over saw births, and death, and prophesy. The beginning the end and what might be. I realized a split class character (wizard/ cleric) wasn't going to work. (after 3 levels of cleric and 3 levels of wizard) then I went into Mystic Theurge.
I now realize what I really needed was the Vercatile channeler feat....or perhaps the White Necromancer...
But I have fun with the character. perhaps if i make another character i will use one of those options.
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Elyas, that character sounds absolutely awesome, I must say. I didn't comment earler because I was too wrapped up in my questions but it's always nice to see a different take on Necromancy and Necromancers. Anyway, I must ask, how did the early leveling before you hit Mystic Theurge go? I ask because, while I intend to go early entry on my character I am liking the RP of Sorcerer 1/Oracle 4 and Wiz 1/Oracle 4 more then the other options despite being mechanically worse off because I like the cha and/or int RP more then the wis RP. I know, wood mystery can get me in earlier but that mystery simply dosen't fit the character concept I have going AT ALL. However, if a sorc 1/oracle 4/MT X or Wizard I/Oracle 4/MT X is just too unplayable the wood mystery would work on a Witch 1/Oracle 2/MT X, which I may consider since the Int/Cha combo is fun for RP to say the least. So would Sorc 1/Oracle 4/MT X or a Wiz 1/Oracle 4/MT X be at the least playable in PF society?
There is another combination of classes that would meet your background. A Bard/Oracle combination could be interesting. If you go for the lore mystery and take Lore Keeper and Sidestep you and take Noble Scion or War CHA does most of you work for you. It gives you AC and initiative and knowledge skills.
The idea of a normal to low INT character having sky high knowledge skills is not something you see every day. It would almost be worth dumping INT just for the sheer ridiculousness of it. You can also use feats to pick up more revelations.
I am totally trying to build this. While I'm not fond of the early entry tricks, it might be interesting.
Edit: I've been wondering if an oracle with the "automatic writing" revelation treat the power as a level 2 SLA. YOu arent actually casting it, it's merely a similar effect, so I'm not sure it would count. I'm currently tempted to build a muse-touched (for glitterdust) lore oracle 1/sorcerer 1/ MT 10, using automatic writing to qualify for divine, and glitterdust for arcane.
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Takhesis, here is a link to my character if you would like to see it. I realize I haven't updated it recently. Link
I made some mistakes like choosing Transmutation and Conjuration as opposition schools.....but i picked up the slack with clerical versions of Summon Monster spells, and bulls stregnth etc. And my character has Selective Channeling, and Turn undead, excellent feats for a cleric, perhaps not so good for a mystic theurge.
This character was "organically" grown. The first three levels were cleric, then on a whim i took a level of necromancer at 4th level. I was only expecting to play this character once a year at our local convention in Vermont called Carnage on the mountain, so i wasn't initially worried about planning ahead.
I guess to answer your question, I focused on having utility spells, party boosting spells, some summoning spells.
I guess i played the character pretty much as a wizard. staying in the back of the party and casting spells. I found for example, having 3 or 4 bless spells memorized worked very well for PFS, because at each fight i could toss a bless spell out. I found i had no shortage of spells so I could keep casting something at almost every combat. I just didn't have any "show stopping" spells.
I found my MT worked best when the party had a cleric and a wizard. I could then focus on the spells they were not carrying. I could focus on utility spells.
At low levels...having only 2nd level spells to work with was a challenge, you end up getting creative. I used Spectral hand to deliver cure light and moderate spells, also buff spells like bull's Str etc. you can do interesting things having both spell lists to draw on.
Like you, I would love to play an Oracle/Sorcerer MT, but I'm not sure how to make it work.
My MT had access to
at 8th level 3rd level spells,
at 9th level 4th level spells,
at 11 level 5th level spells,
at 13 level 6th level spells
I see you are constructing your MT build using the new FAQ rules. Lets see. a Sorc 1/ Oracle 4 MT x would get their spells.....
at 7th level, 3rd level oracle spells
at 8th level, 2nd level sorc spells
at 9th level 4th level oracle spells.
at 10 level, 3rd level sorc spells.....
Why not give it a try? sometimes people get too hung up on "optimization".....I am a VC in Pathfinder society, I have GMed quite a bit...and now I have 21 characters ranging from 14 level down to 1st level. I think i have a character at almost every level. Some builds have been effective (11 level inquisitor archer) some allot of fun (gnome rogue 2/ alchemist (chirgeon) 9th), and some well I don't think they work so well (monk 4/ fighter 4/ sorcerer 1)
So I would say give it a try. Have fun.
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Williamok, I am pretty sure that automatic writing would not count as since it is labeled as (SU) rather then (Sp) which means it is a supernatural ability, not a spell-like ability and thus I'm not sure if it qualifies for being able to cast 2nd level spells. If somebody could clear this up rules wise, that would be great.
I do still like the fluff for Cleric/Sorc, though, and it's probably better from an OP standpoint. The only issue is the first level power of the draconic bloodline(since I was interested in making a worshiper of Dahak for the awesome fluff combination of Dahak Cleric and draconic bloodline sorc)is total crap. However, since I'm focusing totally on spells I won't really need that bloodline power anyway...
Oh well, I was just messing around anyway. Might try anyway. Since most SLAs are arcane, I'm wondering how to most quickly qualify. Would it be possible to get in in 3 levels?
Yeah, it's possible williamoak. this is a pretty good summary of the ways to get SLAs for prerequisites.
The divine SLA is the easier part. You can get it via the Fate inquisition, the Trickery domain, the Bend the Grain revelation of the Wood mystery, being a pyromaniac gnome, or by the Aasimar-only feat Heavenly Radiance (which must be taken at level 3).
The arcane SLA pretty much has to come from race. A half-elf with drow magic, most aasimar variants, and most tiefling variants all qualify.
So the way to do it that leaves the most options open is as Aasimar with a level each in the two casting classes you want to advance, and one level in any class you care for, that takes Heavenly Radiance at level three.
Well, that seems to be the best option for PFS, seeing you cant realistically go past level 11. But yeah, I'd probably do oracle/sorcerer, aasimar (with heavenly radiance), with the nature revelation (I like nature's whispers). Dont know what sorcerer would be best. In any case, it would make for an interesting combo. I could take 2 levels of paladin, making it paladin 2/ oracle 1/ sorcerer1/ MT X. Would get access to a fair amount, but I think past 14th level (When MT maxes out) it could start getting a crisis of identity. Could go eldritch knight. It would be hella silly though. I dont know, sorc 3/ oracle 3 would probably be best.
Yeah, it's possible williamoak. this is a pretty good summary of the ways to get SLAs for prerequisites.
The divine SLA is the easier part. You can get it via the Fate inquisition, the Trickery domain, the Bend the Grain revelation of the Wood mystery, being a pyromaniac gnome, or by the Aasimar-only feat Heavenly Radiance (which must be taken at level 3).
The arcane SLA pretty much has to come from race. A half-elf with drow magic, most aasimar variants, and most tiefling variants all qualify.
So the way to do it that leaves the most options open is as Aasimar with a level each in the two casting classes you want to advance, and one level in any class you care for, that takes Heavenly Radiance at level three.
How can ou take Heavenly Radiance if you use an aasimar alternate race? Heavenly radiance requires the daylight spell like ability...
Good point. I think the pyromaniac gnome is an error as well. That page I linked says it has a 2nd level divine SLA, but as far as I can tell it only has a 1st level divine.
It seems there isn't a way to get in at fourth level except for a tiefling / aasimar / drow-blooded half-elf that takes Trickery Domain / Fate Inquisition / Wood Mystery.
Is there any class abilities or feats that offer a 2nd level Arcane SLA? Because Agathion blooded Aasimars get Summon Natures Ally II, which would qualify on the divine side.
if you build a Tengu you can take Long Nose form at AND ONLY AT 3rd level to qualify as a arcane source SLA. you can go cleric 1/ Wildblooded sorcerer 2 w/ empirical(spelling?) bloodline so your casting stat is wisdom based and you can start with mystic theurge at lvl 4 if you meet other requirements.
... You do realise you posted a reply to a question from over a year ago?
Please, please check the timestamps. Please. Only YOU can prevent forum necromancy.