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Ok, I may be running a bunch of low level PFS sessions in the near future since not many are stepping up to help out. I would rather not assign too many 1st and 2nd level adventures to my 3+ level PC’s. I prefer if rewards are for an appropriate level. So I am seriously considering a Mystic Theurge for my next PC, even though I know many people don’t like them.
The biggest hate I’ve seen was that you need many levels of each class before you start the PrC. That puts you too far behind the highest level spells of single casters. However, with the ruling that SLA’s count for PrC requirements, it seems like that should not be as big a deal.
Aasimar gives daylight. That can be a divine or arcane, so use it for the divine. Scrying wizard gets clairaudience/clairvoyance. I think you still need a divine spell casting class to advance. So take 1 level of cleric. Wouldn’t you then be qualified to take Mystic Theurge starting at 3rd-12th level?
Is it that simple? Are there other combinations that work?
You need second level spells, not third.
I know you can search for more threads about what will let you qualify, but off the top of my head:
2nd level arcane: Any tiefling or aasimar racial SLA (other than the vanilla aasimar)
2nd level divine: Fate inquisition (augery), Trickery domain (Copycat)*, Wood oracle (Bend the Grain)
*The FAQ was recently revised to make this a divine SLA because it comes from a divine spellcasting class, even though the spell it's based on is arcane.
Aasimar gives daylight. That can be a divine or arcane, so use it for the divine.
As Ughbash said above, it counts as Arcane, but Rainydayninja posted the three methods to pick up to get into the PrC at level 4. Im planing on doing Cleric(2)/Sorcerer(1) for my next PFS character who will be MT. My sorcerer will be a wildblood Empyreal so I can focus on Wisdom. At level 12 this will give me an effective caster levels: Cleric(11)/Sorcerer(10) which is perfect cause I make the breaking point for new spells in each class.
I have also seen effective Sorcerer/oracle
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It never occurred to me that a 3rd level spell wouldn't qualify for the 2nd level spell requirement. But I'm talking PFS and it is pretty much what is written. So I will have to have a 2nd level SLA.
Ok, I went and re-found/re-read the FAQ. I had not remembered that they are arcane unless not on the wizard list.
The spell levels were always such a big deal that I forgot about the skill level requirements. But 4th level is still better than 7th level.
Do any of the races give a 2nd level divine SLA? Trickery domain isn't horrible, but isn't what I was hoping for. And then some other wizard type for a 2nd level arcane SLA?
I think inquisitor would be a poor choice for MT, but I haven't looked at it in any detail so I could be wrong.
Even though I like the thought of a single casting stat. I already have a sorc and an oracle (in home game) so I don't want a PC that just combines them.
PFS basically retires at level 12 for normal play and I haven't gotten anything even close yet. So I'm not too worried about high level play of the build since it will probably only be used until level 11 or so.
As I understand it, you can take inquisitions for clerics instead of a domain (you just don't get any domain spells from that one).
Incorruptable alternate aasimar racial from ARG gives corruption resistance, a 2nd lvl divine sla. Available to any aasimar bloodline as a sla replacement.
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Ways to get the Divine level 2 spell requirement
- Standard is cleric/druid level 3, oracle/inquisitor level 4, or paladin/ranger 7
- Aasimar, Incorruptible alt racial trait, Corruption Resistance spell
- Aasimar, race feat heavenly Radiance with the Wake of Light spell
- Cleric, Fate inquisition, Augury
- Cleric, Trickery domain, Mirror Image (has been ruled divine SLA since comes from domain)
- Inquisitor, Fate inquisition, Augury
- Oracle, Wood mystery, Bend the Grain revelation, Warp Wood and Wood Shape
Any others that I missed?
I know this is an old thread. And my question is possiply covered elsewhere, but...
The MT reqs say, "Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells." That is "spells" plural. Is it official anywhere that a single SLA counts as "spells."
I know this is an old thread. And my question is possiply covered elsewhere, but...
The MT reqs say, "Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells." That is "spells" plural. Is it official anywhere that a single SLA counts as "spells."
This faq says it works.
Thanks for the responses.
This faq says it works.
Not if read exactly. The example given is for meeting a specific spell. If MT said able to cast a "2nd-level divine spell and 2nd-level arcane spell" then it would clearly apply. Fact say an SLA can counts as a spell. So if I have 2 SLAs, again, no problem.
Yes, it is. You can cast it multiple times on different days, so it is plural.
That doesn't seem like a good argument. By that logic the req for Harrower "Special: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells. Must be able to cast at least three divination spells" could be fulfilled by being able to cast detect magic once a day for three days.
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So, a cleric 3/sorcerer 4 would not be able to qualify since he could only cast one arcane spell of 2nd level?
Note that Paizo has at least one canon NPC who's a Druid 3/Sorcerer 4/Mystic Theurge 1 (Madame Mvashti, from Sandpoint)...so Paizo's apparently cool with only one 2nd Level spell as a prerequisite.
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Thanks for the responses.
This faq says it works.Not if read exactly. The example given is for meeting a specific spell. If MT said able to cast a "2nd-level divine spell and 2nd-level arcane spell" then it would clearly apply. Fact say an SLA can counts as a spell. So if I have 2 SLAs, again, no problem.
Yes, it is. You can cast it multiple times on different days, so it is plural.That doesn't seem like a good argument. By that logic the req for Harrower "Special: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells. Must be able to cast at least three divination spells" could be fulfilled by being able to cast detect magic once a day for three days.
First, let's try logic:
The FAQ acknowledges that treating SLAs as spells for prereqs will get some characters into PrCs early. What races/classes are able to do so? If the design team says the ruling allows early entry, what's an example? I'm not aware of any ways to do so under your interpretation. And if you can't come up with a way that your interpretation allows enough early-entry situations for that FAQ to be meaningful, then your interpretation is wrong.
That's how to fish. Alternatively, here's a ready-to-eat fish.
First, let's try logic:The FAQ acknowledges that treating SLAs as spells for prereqs will get some characters into PrCs early. What races/classes are able to do so? If the design team says the ruling allows early entry, what's an example? I'm not aware of any ways to do so under your interpretation. And if you can't come up with a way that your interpretation allows enough early-entry situations for that FAQ to be meaningful, then your interpretation is wrong.
I'll own not doing an exhaustive comparison of all PrC prereq to find the cases that that SLA would meet. But wait, the linked fact already gave an example of the SLA replacing a single spell requirement. What it didn't give was an indication that a single SLA counted as spells. Is the single example enough for the FAQ to be meaningful? Subjective, but beside the point.
That's how to fish. Alternatively, here's a ready-to-eat fish.Thanks for the fish. That's exactly what I was looking for, a clear statement that a "spell" counted as "spells" for the prereq.
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I'll own not doing an exhaustive comparison of all PrC prereq to find the cases that that SLA would meet. But wait, the linked fact already gave an example of the SLA replacing a single spell requirement. What it didn't give was an indication that a single SLA counted as spells. Is the single example enough for the FAQ to be meaningful? Subjective, but beside the point.
You missed what I was getting at.
The FAQ that allows SLAs to function as prereqs explicitly acknowledges the result of being able to get into certain spellcasting PrCs early. Therefore, any interpretation of rules that would cause that acknowledgement to be false must be a wrong interpretation.
That is, if every spellcasting PrC's prereq says "spells", and your interpretation of that word means that an SLA won't fulfill that prereq, then the result is that SLAs won't actually get you into any PrCs early. But the design team says they will. Ergo, you must change the part of your interpretation that produces the conflict.
Did you follow that time?
Holy cow, you gave me a great idea batman.
So, a cleric 3/sorcerer 4 would not be able to qualify since he could only cast one arcane spell of 2nd level?
I think this is the best counter argument for you Carnox.
Any sentence in the english language can be dissected and argued due to how crazy English is. The FAQ states that it works for PrC's so just go with it.
That is, if every spellcasting PrC's prereq says "spells", and your interpretation of that word means that an SLA won't fulfill that prereq, then the result is that SLAs won't actually get you into any PrCs early. But the design team says they will. Ergo, you must change the part of your interpretation that produces the conflict.Did you follow that time?
I follow. And the logic is sound. But not every spellcasting prereq says "spells".
Arcane Archer is the first one I come to that doesn't. "Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher." Now, whether I can get a mage hand AND an 2nd arcane as an SLA, I dunno.
However, your previous fish* link is, again, exactly the specific clarification for which I was looking. So thanks.
And folks, my group tends to look at the English of the rules and parse it more than one way. So for me it is easiest if I can find a ruling that clarifies which way to parse it. The fish from the design team does that for me here.
*The design team does not consider a prerequisite or requirement of "ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells" to literally mean "ability to cast at least two or more 1st-level arcane spells."
Being able to cast one spell of that type and level meets the prerequisite or requirement (if the prerequisite or requirement was intended to mean "two or more," it would say that, or use language like "at least two").
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Heighten Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells as if they were a higher level.
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
At the point you can cast a heighten spell at level two, you must be able to cast (ie have spell slots of lvl 2) available.
I'm assuming you think applying magical knack somehow changes this... it doesn't...
Magical Lineage: One of your parents was a gifted spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.
It's an odd distinction, but it doesn't increase the spell level, or add to it, it changes the level of the spell period. ie it substitutes the level.
(all the others add/increase, such as maximize)A stilled spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.