By 4th level, my bard build looks like it could potentially dish out 6d8 plus 24 points of damage as a ranged touch attack using up just one round of bardic performance.
The bard build I had in mind was a Azata-Blooded Aasimar (Musetouched) Bard (Dawnflower Dervish, Sound Striker). The Sound Striker archetype grants the Weird Words special ability at 6th level. This gives you 1d8 plus the Bard's charisma modifier in damage as a ranged touch attack (fortitude for half damage) as a number of attacks per bard levels that can be targeted against a single or multiple enemies.
Apparently, I could gain this bardic ability by 4th level by selecting the +1/2 to Performance (specify Bardic Performance type) if I chose Weird Words as my Favored Bonus for being an Aasimar. That means one of 3 things:
a. I'm reading it wrong somehow and the Favored bonus won't let me get Weird Words early at all.
b. I get 4d8 plus 16 points assuming 18 charisma at 4th level as potential damage using Weird Words.
c. I get 6d8 plus 24 points assuming 18 charisma at 4th level as potential damage using Weird Words because my favored bonus treats me as being 6th level for this matter only.
If this favored racial bonus doesn't work for Weird Words, it could still be very powerful for Inspire Courage as by 8th level it would grant my character +6 to hit/+6 damage when performing the Dawnflower Dervish style of Inspire Courage which is different from the standard bard.
I am interested in people's thoughts on this. Am I misinterpreting the rules?
Remember it is still subject to things like cover and precise shot.
Yep, it is good, but lots of things are good.
Actually, it is not subject to precise shot. Weird Words do not count as weapons and therefore do not get bonuses from things like PBS but they also don't suffer -4 to hit into combat for the same reason. See this thread which discusses this at length:
I am still unsure whether I would get 4d8 or 6d8 damage from Weird Words at 4th level.
At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard's Charisma bonus (Fortitude half), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word.
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
So... Weird Words says it's a bunch of ranged touch attacks... similarly to a Scorching Ray for example.
Casters can take Weapon focus in "rays" (aka. magic ranged touch attacks).
So the only thing to still clear up is whether rays include all ranged touch attacks or only spells with the word "ray" in it...
Though, I don't see why those feats work on Scorching Ray but not on Acid Arrow.
If you rule Acid Arrows and Weird Words are something non-ray, you should houserule cover and shooting into melee... because right now cover and shooting into melee does affect all ranged touch attacks: lengthy post about rules
Whether you can get Point Blank Shot and/or Precise Shot (+Improved) to work with ranged touch attacks is an entirely different horse...
If only rays can work with Precise Shot and other ranged touch attacks cannot, that only means by RAW that all non-ray and non-weapon ranged attacks always get -8atk (as in -4atk, +4AC) to shoot into melee vs a target having cover. And no ability/feat would cancel this penalty...
So I'd say: ranged touch attacks are still weapon-like, it's just a matter of putting them into "ray", "missile", ... categories.
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As for the Favored Class bonus for being an Azata? I'd say you still only get the Performance at level 6, but it'll do 8d8+x at that level. I don't see how that favored class thing gives you early access to a performance,
boost it: yes,
early-access: no.
Bard: Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/2 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.
So... Weird Words says it's a bunch of ranged touch attacks... similarly to a Scorching Ray for example.
Casters can take Weapon focus in "rays" (aka. magic ranged touch attacks).
So the only thing to still clear up is whether rays include all ranged touch attacks or only spells with the word "ray" in it...
Though, I don't see why those feats work on Scorching Ray but not on Acid Arrow.If you rule Acid Arrows and Weird Words are something non-ray, you should houserule cover and shooting into melee... because right now cover and shooting into melee does affect all ranged touch attacks: lengthy post about rules
I don't think it can be compared to Scorching Ray or Acid Arrow as Weird Words is a supernatural ability, not a spell.
As for the Favored Class bonus for being an Azata? I'd say you still only get the Performance at level 6, but it'll do 8d8+x at that level. I don't see how that favored class thing gives you early access to a performance,
boost it: yes,
early-entrance: no.
I hadn't considered it as a boost but with a denial of early-entry. Your explanation of how the Favored Class bonus works seems the most plausible.
I don't think it can be compared to Scorching Ray or Acid Arrow as Weird Words is a supernatural ability, not a spell.
Added this my post a wee bit late... so here it goes again:
Whether you can get Point Blank Shot and/or Precise Shot (+Improved) to work with ranged touch attacks is an entirely different horse...
If only rays can work with Precise Shot and other ranged touch attacks cannot, that only means by RAW that all non-ray and non-weapon ranged attacks always get -8atk (as in -4atk, +4AC) to shoot into melee vs a target having cover. And no ability/feat would ever cancel this penalty...
That would be really harsh and not make sense, so I'd say: ranged touch attacks are still weapon-like, it's just a matter of putting them into "ray", "missile", "bomb", ... categories.
Only one word per opponent, so not that great.
I don't think anything in the Weird Words ability description says the attacks can't be all against the same target.
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I don't think so either; but cover and such do apply (it is just a "ranged touch attack"). So to make it good you need precise shot.
It also allows a save for half on each attack. Having said all of that being able to do a 9d8+45 or so scorching ray attack @ 6th level is pretty powerful on the "do damage" scale. I don't know how it compares to the Oracle of Nature and their 9th level druid animal companion or other sillyness that can be bought with the "increase the power by 1/2 favored class" options out there for Aasimirs.
Only one word per opponent, so not that great.I don't think anything in the Weird Words ability description says the attacks can't be all against the same target.
Especially since you need to roll an attack for each d8+x, and you only use your BAB+dex, your chances to hit with every d8 are rather slim to begin with.
I'm still trying to figure out if you get to attack vs touch AC, as this is not a spell/spell-like ability, as the OP pointed out. BAB+dex on a 3/4 BAB class, with no means to further boost attack, and then targeting normal AC (it does the same damage types as a weapon to boot) would seriously suck.
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I don't think so either; but cover and such do apply (it is just a "ranged touch attack"). So to make it good you need precise shot.
It's been argued in other threads regarding Weird Words that the supernatural ability does not count as a weapon so therefore the benefits and drawbacks of attacking with Weird Words do not count. This would also mean that feats such as Precise Shot could not apply. See below:
Precise Shot: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll.
Personally speaking, I don't really know if it counts as a weapon but it would be nice to know whether you should invest in all the ranged feats for this.
@c873788
Most people believe that ranged touch attack all use the penalty for ranged attack (cover and shooting into melee) and all benefits for touch attack spells (target touch AC and crit)...
I'm trying to get a final answer here.
Because as much as your Weird Words is not a weapon, it's not a spell-like thing either... that would mean no touch AC and no crit.
Getting an ability that uses no ranged weapon attack rules but does use the spell touch rules
- makes no sense
- is imbalanced as the touch AC usually makes up for ranged attack penalties (and a caster who wants to specialize can pick the 3 required feats)
They were clarified by a developer to be one word per target and subject to DR. If someone else doesnt post the link in a while I'll see if I can find it.
I remember seeing the clarification that it is subject to DR. I don't recall seeing that it was one per target. In fact, what I read on the various threads seemed to indicate the opposite. If you could find the developers comments regarding targets, I would appreciate it.
Scorching Ray is a ray. It says Ray. It refers to itself at all times as a ray.
Acid Arrow is not a ray.
All rays are ranged touch attacks. Not all ranged touch attacks are rays.
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What you also need to know is that when calculating damage, you have to separate your damage dice. Very important when going against DR or Hardness. So with the recalculation of a 6th level Aasimar Sound Striker, you are doing not 9d8+36, you are doing 1d8+4 x9. This means that a DR/Hardness of 10 will give you a really tough time. DR/Hardness of 15 will put you at a dead halt.
Several rules things. First, Dawnflower Dervish alters bardic performance (including inspire competence), so you can't take it and sound striker, at all.
Not sure about this:
When the Dawnflower dervish uses the inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, these performance types only provide benefit to the Dawnflower dervish himself. All other types of bardic performance work normally (affecting the bard and his allies, or the bard’s enemies, as appropriate).
This ability alters the standard bardic performance ability.
Herolab allows the 2 archetypes to work together and it has inbuilt programming to remove incompatible archetypes. Having said that, I understand that Herolab is not the ultimate authority on this matter.
What you also need to know is that when calculating damage, you have to separate your damage dice. Very important when going against DR or Hardness. So with the recalculation of a 6th level Aasimar Sound Striker, you are doing not 9d8+36, you are doing 1d8+4 x9. This means that a DR/Hardness of 10 will give you a really tough time. DR/Hardness of 15 will put you at a dead halt.
Agreed. It will be of limited use against creatures with DR.
