I would like you all to post your single most Broken/powerfull charachter concept PFS legal.
the idea is it has to shine from lvl 1 to 12 so no LVL12 only builds and the charachter does not know what party members he is gooing to have so he needs to be prepared for anything!
Why I ask is that I had a fighter1/magus1 involved in a TPK this wekend and I just hate it when you have to start from scratch! in a campaign you just make a charachter of the same lvl and go on! but I only had 1 PFS legal charachter and now its dead!
I didn't optimize and that is probably the reason i am dead i am normaly the optemizer in our group and this time i thought i would leave the heavy duty to the rest but none of them did anny deacent damage! and I was support!
so pleas post your PFS LEGAL Best of the Broken! from lvl 1-12
Hello Darkflame!
I didn't play PFS so often till now. My Character just reached Level 2, but I think, I still have a good concept and for every Module I played now, this character was kinda usefull.
For the Class I picked up a Sorcerer with the Wildblooded Archtype and decided to take the Sylvan (wild)Bloodline. This gives me an Animal Companion. Here you can take something good for tripping, soaking up some Damage, or just dealing tons of Damage. In my case, I just took a Big Cat.
For my Race I chose Azata-Blooded Aasimar for various reasons:
1) Getting CHA and DEX bonus for no penalty.
2) +2 Bonus on Diplomacy, which gives a high degree with Ease of Faith trait and good Charisma.
3) Glitterdust spell-like ability. We all know how potent that spell is. Casting this on level one instead of Level four, wrecks encounters.
For my spells I took the good old Color Spray and Grease. My seconds trait was Savannah Child to have Handle Animal as a Class Skill and my Feat was just Toughness.
My Stats look like that: STR 7, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 18
In fight I just spam Acid Splashes and let my Animal Companion be at the front. If needed Color Spray disables Monster kinda effective and Grease let me pseudo-trip, area control, disarm or buff CMD vs. grapple. Heavy martial Foes are blinded by Glitterdust.
For further Levels I definitly plan to take Boon Companion. The Sylvan Bloodline gives me nice tools, surviablity and utility.
In theory, this Character is usefull for any Group he has to play with, by providing a frontline Companion (for soaking some Damage, providing flank and so on), throw some potent spells and be an effective Party Face if needed.
Sorry for my english so far, it's not my native language.
Hope I could give you some help!
Greetings, Naz.
You don't need to optimize overly to succeed in PFSP. A well made character is more then enough to over come most of what you find in PFSP.
What kind of character are you looking for? Do you want a melee type? Range character? Or even a caster?
For broken melee you have a few options. At the top of the list are Barbarian's, and Cavalier's.
For range characters. There are two options for broken.
Monk (Zen Archer), or Gunslinger (Musket master).
For casters that's just about any of them. Just pick one max out your save DC, along with high SR bypass.
Any class that gets a animal companion. Are generally more powerful then ones that do not get one. It requires you to have the animal archive to utilize them to full effect.
My personal suggestion to you for PFSP. Make a character that can cover multiple roles. If your overly optimized for combat you will be lacking in other areas. That's fine if your grouping with the same people all the time. However if every one at your table is a combat machine you will have problems.
My best suggestion is not the most powerful. But one of the many that are good at there job. And can cover other roles in a party as needed.
Bard : They are not combat machines. But they can buff the group so you don't need to be. Plus they can cover many of the social skills and knowledge checks. So they add a lot to a group with out needing to be on the front line.
Ranger(Urban Ranger) : Full BAB skill monkey that gets a animal companion. So they can do traps and a few other skills. Along with being good at melee, and range combat.
"most broken/powerfull" are not the terms that are most welcome in PFS play, since it´s usually not the best way to further a harmonic group experience where all involved people can have equal amounts of fun.
Race: Half Elf
Class: Straight Orcale using the Mystery of your choice
Feat: Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)
Spell: Paragon Surge
Up to level 6 you work like a normal Oracle. At level 6 you can gain access to any Cleric spell of a level you cant cast with Paragon Surge and the Expanded Arcana feat.
At level 11 you can now use Paragon Surge to gain Improved Eldritch Heritage and pick the New Arcana bloodline power allowing you to access any Wizard spell of a level you can cast.
You wont be the most powerful character ever able to end any encounter without the rest of the party. You will however be the most versatile caster around having spontaneous access to the entire cleric and wizard list up to level 6 spells at level 12 meaning you will always have the right tool for the job you are sent on. Given the random nature of PFS groups that's a huge advantage.
For Mystery I would probably recommend Lore so you can also know all of the things ever as PFS scenarios are chock full of Knowledge skill checks.
Musket master gunslinger with 19 Dex at level 1. If I have to explain why that's ridiculously overpowered you must not have any musket masters in your area.
I would like you all to post your single most Broken/powerfull charachter concept PFS legal.
the idea is it has to shine from lvl 1 to 12 so no LVL12 only builds and the charachter does not know what party members he is gooing to have so he needs to be prepared for anything!
Broken and versatile are pretty much contradictory. The most powerful builds are generally very specialized.
You also rarely need hyper optimized builds in pfs.
For versatility, 2 characters that I'd recommend are the Bard (especially a dawn flower dervish) and Druid classes. Both can make very flexible characters. My 2 highest level characters are these and both have been quite successful.
If you build for flexibility you'll have to ignore most of the optimization guides. My druid, for example, has resources spent on spells, combat and animal companion. This definitely makes her a little weaker at any of those but the payback, especially in pfs, comes from the fact that she can fill whatever role is required. She has been the tank, the healer, the buffer, the controller as required. She makes just about any team she is in considerably more powerful.
Musket master gunslinger with 19 Dex at level 1. If I have to explain why that's ridiculously overpowered you must not have any musket masters in your area.
I see your MM gunslinger and raise you a tiefling pistolero who uses a pair of double barreled pistols while reloading with her tail, albeit she is a little weaker until she can pick up 2 double barreled pistols (level 4ish IIRC).
Not the highest damage compared to a charging cavalier/barbarian/paladin, but a lot of utility for skills and magic options. No face ability... that kinda gets dumped.
Saurian Shaman/Lion Shaman Druid and Wild Stalker Ranger, Tiefling for claws and tail, Str/Wis or Dex/Wis type.
20 pt buy Str 16(race) Dex 15 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16(race) Cha 6(race).
Natural bite racial, aspect of the beast claws for lower level combat, with rake from druid 2. Darkwood +3Str comp longbow for backup.
Higher level wildshape into a pouncing critter, rage from wild stalker, and planar wildshape for smite 2/day.
Shaping Focus at 7, (druid 4/ranger 3) gives you instant large form dino/cat for pounce/rake added in, planar wildshape at 9 for smite on top of that from celestial template burning 2xwildshapes.
9th level also gets you 8rounds rage/day or so, with a 28 Str while smiting with pounce/rake you'll rack up the damage high game too.
Musket master gunslinger with 19 Dex at level 1. If I have to explain why that's ridiculously overpowered you must not have any musket masters in your area.
I see your MM gunslinger and raise you a tiefling pistolero who uses a pair of double barreled pistols while reloading with her tail, albeit she is a little weaker until she can pick up 2 double barreled pistols (level 4ish IIRC).
Too bad your pistolero can only fire all 4 barrels in the first round of combat since it's a standard action reload a single barrel of a pistol. Even with Rapid Reload feat, it's still a move action, which means after the first round you can only fire one barrel per round, which is 1 less than the musket master can fire once he gets to level 3.
Best I've seen was a Sorcerer that would Dominate Monster, Magic Jar into them, then use their body to pay for Blood Money and summon a Planar Ally to help them complete their mission. Naturally flying invisible @ all times (ring of invis, Overland flight).
Summoner alone was "enough" for most levels. The Battle Cattle concept I've seen recently (paying ~50 gp for a character with high cha to bring a Combat trained Bison (CR4) along for the ride to trample everything in sight) was pretty disgusting as well; though that. I did it as "Reach-combat reflexes pet", which I still maintain is better (especially at low levels) than Pouncy above. Summoner is hard not to overpower.
My fighter/monk is highly praised for his battlefield control (Grapple/Trip build). Really most trip builds in general can dominate to mid-to-high levels.
Those are the ones I've seen; there are plenty more theory ones (alchemical allocation-master combat alchemist), but I've never actually seen those in praction.
Musket master gunslinger with 19 Dex at level 1. If I have to explain why that's ridiculously overpowered you must not have any musket masters in your area.
I see your MM gunslinger and raise you a tiefling pistolero who uses a pair of double barreled pistols while reloading with her tail, albeit she is a little weaker until she can pick up 2 double barreled pistols (level 4ish IIRC).
Too bad your pistolero can only fire all 4 barrels in the first round of combat since it's a standard action reload a single barrel of a pistol. Even with Rapid Reload feat, it's still a move action, which means after the first round you can only fire one barrel per round, which is 1 less than the musket master can fire once he gets to level 3.
Same solution as the musket master, use alchemical cartridges. "Fast Musket (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as the musket master has 1 grit point, she can reload any two-handed firearm as if it were a one-handed firearm" is certainly not going to let a MM reload any faster than a pistolero already using one-handed firearms.
Ok, so using alchemical cartridges brings it down to a move action. So you still need the Rapid Reload feat to get it down to a free action. However, at level 5 you only have 4 feats, so you can't have PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, and Deadly Aim.
Musket masters get a deed at level 3 that allows them to reload a musket as if it is a 1 handed weapon. They also get Rapid Reload (musket) for free at level 1. My human musket master will always be 2 feats ahead of your tiefling pistolero.
While we're on the subject of gunslingers, how much would a gunslinger in PFS pay for cold iron alchemical paper cartridges? I know we pay 6g per paper cartridge, I just don't know how much being cold iron adds to the price. I'm guessing it's only 50s, or at most 1g, per cartridge, but I'm not sure.
Other factors to consider are your style of play. If standing back and sending in a pet is your thing, then sure Summoner or Druid may work very well.
Given you were a Fighter/Magus I'm assuming you like being in front. Given that I'd take a look at the barbarian. Higher HP, high mobility, and fair defenses.
At level 2, pick up the archetype Invulnerable Rager. You now gain DR equal to half your level. (DR1/- at level 2, DR2/- at level 4, etc.) and you don't have to be raging.
There's a build progression from the I AM BARBARIAN guide (see Guide to the Class Guides.) I made a few tweaks for Society play mainly to gain access to Spell Sunder earlier. It basically follows this progression:
1 Fast Movement, Rage, Power Attack, H-Raging Vitality.
2 DR1/-, Lesser Beast Totem(APG)
3 Extreme Endurance(level 3 from IR archetype), Improved Sunder
4 DR2/-, Power: if not human pick up Raging Vitality; if Human select Superstition
5 Extra Rage Power: Superstition if not human. If human, your choice.
6 DR3/-, Cold Resist1, Beast Totem(APG-74 req. 6th)
7 Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
8 DR4/-, Spell Sunder
9 Cold Resist2, Combat Reflexes
10 DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem(APG-74, req 10th)
11 Greater Rage Dazing Assault(AP-157, req. power atk, bab+11) Cold Resist3,
12 DR6/-, Come and Get Me(APG-74, requires 12th level)
For human favored class bonus select the bonus to Superstition.
If you don't want cold resist, you can choose fire resist instead.
If you are worried about surviving to level 2. You can try a more defensive build and rebuild entirely once you hit level 2 with the free retrain:
Race: Human
Key feats: Tribal Scars, Dodge.
Str: 16(18 with +2 racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Favored class bonus: hp.
Armor: Four-Mirror plus Heavy Shield.
Weapon: Any 1H. (Silver Morningstar will deal with B/P/Silver, Cold Iron Longsword will handle Slashing/Cold Iron)
Ranged Weapon: Chakram (1d8+str) 1h thrown. Buy a cold iron and silver version as well to deal with DR.
Carry an acid flask and alchemists fire to help deal with swarms.
HP 12+2(con)+1(favored)+6(feat)=
AC 10+6(armor)+2(shield)+2(dex)+1(dodge)=
Saves Fort+4/Ref+2/W+0
To summarize at level one:
--------------------------
21 HP, 21 AC, F+4/R+2/W+0 or when raging
23 HP, 19 AC, F+6/R+2/W+2
--------------------------
Which should you survive. The Tribal Scars feat depending on which one you select can also grant save bonuses on top of above.
Supplements required:
Advanced Player's Guide (Invulnerable Rager Archetype, plus some of the rage powers)
Ultimate Equipment (Four-Mirror armor, chakram)
People of the North (Tribal Scars feat)
...until you get mid level, use "Summon Eidilon" and an extend wand to keep it around for 2 mins / level, get Augment Summon bonuses, and also open up the ability to standard-action summon monsters for minutes per level :).
Ok, so using alchemical cartridges brings it down to a move action. So you still need the Rapid Reload feat to get it down to a free action. However, at level 5 you only have 4 feats, so you can't have PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, and Deadly Aim.
Musket masters get a deed at level 3 that allows them to reload a musket as if it is a 1 handed weapon. They also get Rapid Reload (musket) for free at level 1. My human musket master will always be 2 feats ahead of your tiefling pistolero.
While we're on the subject of gunslingers, how much would a gunslinger in PFS pay for cold iron alchemical paper cartridges? I know we pay 6g per paper cartridge, I just don't know how much being cold iron adds to the price. I'm guessing it's only 50s, or at most 1g, per cartridge, but I'm not sure.
PBS, Precise Shot & Deadly aim are all nice but hardly first choice feats, the whole point of the TWF double-barreled pistolero build is to put many bullets into the air as fast as possible. Rapid reload, rapid shot & two-weapon fighting are the first 3 feats, each of which puts more lead down range, after that the TWF double barreled pistolero can worry about accuracy and damage per shot. Well, technically two-weapon fighting gives an accuracy bonus and not a more-attacks-made bonus, but it is a pre-req for imp. TWF which is more-attacks-made bonus.
Best guess is that since PFS gunslingers purchase alchemical cartridges as intact items instead of making them from their components, a cold iron bullet would be 12g (double price). But on the other hand a silver alchemical cartridge is only 7G (half the +2g for alchemical silver). Never used or seen or even had a use for a cold iron bullet so I have no idea if there is an official ruling on the price though. Might be a good idea to get an official ruling seeing as this season promises to involve demons.
The two most broken classes for PFS are probably druid and summoner.
Pets are disproportionately good in PFS due to prewritten mods and scaling (Pets don't count toward player count in season 4).
Casting is good but so is melee. These classes do both well at the same time.
PFS is designed to 70% of optimization at higher levels and probably as low as 50% optimization at early levels. This means adequate melee and casting can be achieved by starting with dual 16s.
Druid is more versatile depending on table/adventure needs while the summoner does more raw damage. It's personal preference. Both will overpower games in different ways.
PBS, Precise Shot & Deadly aim are all nice but hardly first choice feats, the whole point of the TWF double-barreled pistolero build is to put many bullets into the air as fast as possible. Rapid reload, rapid shot & two-weapon fighting are the first 3 feats, each of which puts more lead down range, after that the TWF double barreled pistolero can worry about accuracy and damage per shot. Well, technically two-weapon fighting gives an accuracy bonus and not a more-attacks-made bonus, but it is a pre-req for imp. TWF which is more-attacks-made bonus.
Best guess is that since PFS gunslingers purchase alchemical cartridges as intact items instead of making them from their components, a cold iron bullet would be 12g (double price). But on the other hand a silver alchemical cartridge is only 7G (half the +2g for alchemical silver). Never used or seen or even had a use for a cold iron bullet so I have no idea if there is an official ruling on the price though. Might be a good idea to get an official ruling seeing as this season promises to involve demons.
You can't take Rapid Shot without Point Blank Shot, so at level 5 you're missing one of Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Rapid Reload. For
that style of play, Rapid Reload is an absolute must, so I would assume you have that. Between Precise Shot and Rapid Shot, look at this. Precise shot will almost universally increase your chance to hit by 20% Gunslingers firing against touch AC already have a pretty good chance to hit, but you're using a double-barrelled pistol and TWF, so you essentially add 6 to AC. You're probably going to be looking at something like a 12+ to hit. Without Precise shot that goes up to a 16+. Would you rather fire 4 shots at a 45% chance to hit, or 5 shots with a 35% chance to hit? I know which one I'd choose.
In regards to cold iron bullets, if they are only 1g more per bullet it will be the only type I puchase from now on. All of my archer characters use nothing but cold iron arrows (2g for 20 as opposed to 1g for 20 normal arrows). I can't imagine a bullet uses that much more metal than an arrowhead, so I'm thinking it should't be any more than 7g each, and possibly as low as 6.1g each.
Fair enough, I will throw in one of my favourite Sorcerers into the ring. Capable of targeting any defence whether single target or AoE. Very high DC Dazing Evocations for battlefield control combined with Persistent alternatives. Strong defence with Emergency Force Sphere. Lots of options to complete the scenarios with access to a range of movement, utility and influence magic as well as a decent spread of skills for faction missions. Can swap out one of his level 6 spells known as required by taking his Robe of Arcane Heritage off then putting it back on.
Sorcerer:
Male Human (Varisian) Sorcerer (Wildblooded) 12
N Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 13, flat-footed 20 (+4 armor, +4 shield, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 86 (12d6+36)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +14
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Equipment: Potion of cure light wounds (2), Potion of cure serious wounds, Potion of delay poison, Potion of gaseous form, Potion of hide from undead, Wand of cure light wounds, Wand of Infernal Healing, Wand of Air Bubble, +3 Mithral Buckler, Amulet of natural armor +1, Belt of mighty constitution +2, Circlet of persuasion, Cloak of resistance +4, Eyes of the eagle, Handy haversack (1 @ 19 lbs), Headband of vast intelligence +6 (Disable Device, , Ioun stone (clear spindle), Ring of protection +1, Robe of arcane heritage, Vest of escape, Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs)
I do not feel Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 28, Wis 14, Cha 7 is a good stat array for a sorcerer.
My favorite build for PFS is this
HUMAN DRUID
Spoiler:
Stats
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 16<Bumps here>
CHA 7
Traits
Ease of faith
Reactionary
Feat
H: SF conjuration
1: Augment summons
3: Superior summons
5: Natural spell
7: Planar wildshape
9: Power attack
11: Either Quicken for buffs (Bristle) Or divine intervention for flexability
Lion animal companion
Mehnir savant archetype
Good items
Amulet of mighty fists x2 (+Pet)
+2 wis item
+2 str item
Cloak of resistance
Druid's vestment (+1 wildshape)
The above build is highly flexible with dozens of wildshape options and at as low as 3rd level you've got powerful summons that can turn the tides of battle. Wildshape is versatile to extreme. My only warning is that this build can be overwhelming to try and play optimally as the number of options in any given situation is exponential.
The second character is one I don't personally play but people always groan about.
Feats
1: Mounted combat
3: Ride by
5: Spirited charge
7: Power attack
9: Extra evolution
11: Improved critical lance
Good items
Amulet of mighty fists
+1 lance
+2 cha item
+2 str item x2
Cloak of resistance
You get the pet damage and an incidental +3d8+30 or more just to add to the best damage in the game. Your plan B is to use summoned earth elementals and eagles as scouts, or to dump 1d4+1 riding dogs on the battlefield. This build is probably stronger but much more narrow.
Feats
1: Point blank shot
H: Precise shot
3: Rapid shot
5: Deadly aim (Why cant it be shot like everything else)
7: Many shot
9: Improved critical Bow (If keen bow Snap shot)
11: Improved precise shot (If seeking bow snap shot, if seeking and keen IMP snap shot.)
good items
+1 composite seeking keen longbow
+2 dex
+2 cha
+1 resistance cloak
+5 perception item
Oath of vengeance archetype.
Lots of smites and loads of damage which ignores DR completely. Hits flying and with 5 attacks by level 7 you do 1d8+14/21 per arrow 5 times. It's a really strong scaling build only weakness is wall of wind which never comes up.
If you are going down the summoning route for the druid then you really want an archetype that makes them standard actions. Saurian will stack with menhir. If looking to go melee then power attack should come sooner.
If you are going down the summoning route for the druid then you really want an archetype that makes them standard actions. Saurian will stack with menhir. If looking to go melee then power attack should come sooner.
Saurian shaman grants you standard action summons, but the summons you gain are terrible compared to anything else. Additionally you can't take menhir with the shaman they both override wild empathy. Compare for example.
SM 1 SShaman
Poison Frog
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/frog.html#_frog-poison
1 poison + DC10 for 1d2 con (Which will rarely/never work)
SM 1 Normal
Eagle
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/eagle.html#_eagle
3d4+6
SM 2 SShaman
Giant Frog
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/frog.html#_frog-giant
1d6+4 and grab attacking twice gives us an average of 15 at a lower to hit bonus. Worse against DR
SM 2 Normal
Small Earth Elemental
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/elemental.html#_
1d6+11 at a higher to hit bonus. Averages 14.5
SM 3 Normal
Cat
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/cat.html#_cat-leopard
1d6+5, 4d3+20 = 34.5
This trend continues. Standard action summoning values are exaggerated. The disparity between having the best of the level becomes more and more extreme as the cyclops and tiger roll around. As for PA earlier it's possible to drop sup summons but sup summons will do more damage to most enemies than power attack.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
to make the pistolero truly overpowered give them a pair of this item, Pistol of the Everlasting Sky. you can shoot as many times as legally possible without needing to reload. plus add the distance property to them later and your a powerhouse of lead.
You can't take Rapid Shot without Point Blank Shot, so at level 5 you're missing one of Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Rapid Reload. For
that style of play, Rapid Reload is an absolute must, so I would assume you have that. Between Precise Shot and Rapid Shot, look at this. Precise shot will almost universally increase your chance to hit by 20% Gunslingers firing against touch AC already have a pretty good chance to hit, but you're using a double-barrelled pistol and TWF, so you essentially add 6 to AC. You're probably going to be looking at something like a 12+ to hit. Without Precise shot that goes up to a 16+. Would you rather fire 4 shots at a 45% chance to hit, or 5 shots with a 35% chance to hit? I know which one I'd choose.
In regards to cold iron bullets, if they are only 1g more per bullet it will be the only type I puchase from now on. All of my archer characters use nothing but cold iron arrows (2g for...
You're being too generous with the hit chance, TWFing with non-light weapons is a -4/-4 with the TWF feat, so essentially adding 8 to AC relative to a musketeer. Precise shot is nice, but it isn't worth the cost of an extra two shots and only provides the same bonus TWF effectively does and then only when the target is in melee.
Some math excluding misfires and crits against a typical touch AC of 13.
A level 5 pistolero with 2 double pistols (feats rapid reload, rapid shot, TWF (and PBS picked up as a requisite)), a DEX 20, and a buff somewhere for +2 to hit fires 6 bullets against a 13(AC) - 4 (double weapon) - 4 (two-weapon fighting) - 2 (rapid shot) - 4 (firing into melee) + 5 DEX + 5 BAB + 1 (point blank shot) + 2 (unspecified buffs, maybe a DEX buff or a bard's song) = 14 to hit.
MM fires two shots using PBS, rapid shot, precise shot, & deadly aim: 13 (AC) - 2 (deadly aim) - 2 (rapid shot) + 5 DEX + 5 BAB + 1 (point black shot) +2 (unspecified buff) = 6 to hit.
The MM hits a little harder (1d12 + 4 deadly aim + 5 musket training + 1 point blank 16.5 ave) than the pistolero ( 1d8 + 5 pistol training + 1 point blank 10.5 ave) but the pistolero hits more often.
6 shots at a 14 or higher to hit, or 2 shots at 6 or higher to hit - the pistolero gets 2.1 average hits/round versus the MM 1.5hits/round 22.05 ave damage/round versus 24.75 ave damage/round - an edge for the MM.
Without the firing into melee penalty (not that rare an occurrence for a class with such a high init.) the pistolero compares better, hitting on a 10 or higher for an average of 3.3 hits/round or 31.5 ave dmge/round versus 24.75 ave dmge/round.
Misfires do favor the MM but I haven't been able to come up with any math that realistically models by how much and crits favor the pistolero so I'm calling those a wash. Mechanically it would be better to make a human pistolero than a tiefling (just so you can get a nice but not essential feat like precision before level 8), however since everyone knows tieflings are a munchkin race being a tiefling makes it easier for the GM to swallow the pistolero doing so much free action reloading. When the pistolero needs a 17 (or higher) to hit it is a good idea to drop the double shots and just fire one barrel (something to keep in mind for iterative attacks).
Barbarian/ Cleric/ Holy Vindicator. Growth sub domain for swift enlarge, 2h power attack with rage, vital strike with channel smite ftw! Maybe not über OP, but you have great saves and dmg output while tanking it up. Make a dwarf and choose travel as your other domain, and you will have some mobility to boot.
At level 3, your companion has 5 hd, str 20 dex 14 con 17 natural armor +6 , AC 21 before magic, 37 HP, full attacks for +7/1d4+5, +7/1d6+5, +7/1d6+5 before power attack, can squeeze everyhere a medium-sized creature can go without AC or attack penalty, and has dr 5/evil, resistance 10 to acid/cold/electricity, darkvision and spell resistance.
At level 3, your companion has 5 hd, str 20 dex 14 con 17 natural armor +6 , AC 21 before magic, 37 HP, full attacks for +7/1d4+5, +7/1d6+5, +7/1d6+5 before power attack, can squeeze everyhere a medium-sized creature can go without AC or attack penalty, and has dr 5/evil, resistance 10 to acid/cold/electricity, darkvision and spell resistance.
You have the option to summon as a standard you can still summon the rest. 1 round casting time spells may as well paint a giant target on your chest.
But you lose the better wildshape options on top of it which is the reason it's a problem.
You dont lose any wildshape options, you simply get them slightly later.
Also Reptile/Dinosaur has great options for melee combat from Deinonychus (4 natural attacks and pounce) to Stegosaurus (powerful single target damage and trip) to Allosaurus (probably the best pouncing multiattacker if you have the space).
This trend continues. Standard action summoning values are exaggerated. The disparity between having the best of the level becomes more and more extreme as the cyclops and tiger roll around. As for PA earlier it's possible to drop sup summons but sup summons will do more damage to most enemies than power attack.
At lower levels maybe. At 5th however the Anklosaurus comes on line which, with a standard action summon, is Dazing your enemies from round 1. At 6th the Stegosaurus is tripping them and at 7th the Tyrannosaurus is swallowing them whole.
As the game progresses higher level combats become more and more rocket launcher tag. Getting your summons in play and effective from the start is more important than ever when combat may not last more than 2 or 3 rounds.
You can't take Rapid Shot without Point Blank Shot, so at level 5 you're missing one of Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Rapid Reload. For
that style of play, Rapid Reload is an absolute must, so I would assume you have that. Between Precise Shot and Rapid Shot, look at this. Precise shot will almost universally increase your chance to hit by 20% Gunslingers firing against touch AC already have a pretty good chance to hit, but you're using a double-barrelled pistol and TWF, so you essentially add 6 to AC. You're probably going to be looking at something like a 12+ to hit. Without Precise shot that goes up to a 16+. Would you rather fire 4 shots at a 45% chance to hit, or 5 shots with a 35% chance to hit? I know which one I'd choose.
In regards to cold iron bullets, if they are only 1g more per bullet it will be the only type I puchase from now on. All of my archer characters use nothing but cold iron arrows (2g for...
You're being too generous with the hit chance, TWFing with non-light weapons is a -4/-4 with the TWF feat, so essentially adding 8 to AC relative to a musketeer. Precise shot is nice, but it isn't worth the cost of an extra two shots and only provides the same bonus TWF effectively does and then only when the target is in melee.
Some math excluding misfires and crits against a typical touch AC of 13.
A level 5 pistolero with 2 double pistols (feats rapid reload, rapid shot, TWF (and PBS picked up as a requisite)), a DEX 20, and a buff somewhere for +2 to hit fires 6 bullets against a 13(AC) - 4 (double weapon) - 4 (two-weapon fighting) - 2 (rapid shot) - 4 (firing into melee) + 5 DEX + 5 BAB + 1 (point blank shot) + 2 (unspecified buffs, maybe a DEX buff or a bard's song) = 14 to hit.
MM fires two shots using PBS, rapid shot, precise shot, & deadly aim: 13 (AC) - 2 (deadly aim) - 2 (rapid shot) + 5 DEX + 5 BAB + 1 (point black shot) +2 (unspecified buff) = 6 to hit.
The MM hits a little harder (1d12 + 4 deadly aim + 5 musket
...
The initiative only helps you not fire into melee on your first turn. Only doing an average of around 25 damage, you're not killing any CR 5-6 monsters. At rounds of combat after the first will be into melee. Also, Rapid Shot only gets you 5 bullets fired, not 6.
You have the option to summon as a standard you can still summon the rest. 1 round casting time spells may as well paint a giant target on your chest.
But you lose the better wildshape options on top of it which is the reason it's a problem.
You dont lose any wildshape options, you simply get them slightly later.
Also Reptile/Dinosaur has great options for melee combat from Deinonychus (4 natural attacks and pounce) to Stegosaurus (powerful single target damage and trip) to Allosaurus (probably the best pouncing multiattacker if you have the space).
I'll agree the allosaurus may be the best single best huge combat form prior to plant form 1 with the poison rot. That said I can't think of a single adventure which had room for a huge creature. You're almost always best off as a large creature or medium. (OR a large/huge earth elemental since you just walk half in the walls.)
The raptor form is superb but you gain it 2 levels later than normal. At the level you gain raptor I gain dire lion which is a far better form and has a reasonable chance of fitting in the hallway AND doesn't make a 5 foot hallway turn off your wildshape.
At level 10 you'll be able to become a medium elemental and I'll be crit immune, or if I want a combat form I can go for a plant and take the 4 tentacle 1d4 con+1d4 str poison. The problem with the good dinosaurs is that they're all huge which is rarely if ever an option. You're just limiting your options for 2 levels early on a form you can't really use in PFS.
andreww wrote:
At lower levels maybe. At 5th however the Anklosaurus comes on line which, with a standard action summon, is Dazing your enemies from round 1. At 6th the Stegosaurus is tripping them and at 7th the Tyrannosaurus is swallowing them whole.
As the game progresses higher level combats become more and more rocket launcher tag. Getting your summons in play and effective from the start is more important than ever when combat may not last more than 2 or 3 rounds.
SM4
Tiger
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/tiger.html#_tiger
Melee 2 claws +12 (1d8+8 plus grab), bite +11 (2d6+8 plus grab) rake +12 (2 claws +10, 1d8+8) = 65
WITH higher to hit bonuses by a noticeable margin.(+5)
SM5
This level is a little harder to compare. It's true you gain a 2x DC23 daze effect (Practically speaking the stun will be rare) which goes off fortitude. The only comparable thing to that would be either outright killing the target or satyr's at 1d3+1 which would give 3 AOE DC 18 will saves. At this level it has a bit of value but it's still lower damage and probably worse save or sucks unless you're dropping the dino on a caster with low fort. This provides a little actual utility so I'll agree here.
SM6
Elasmosaurus is terrible, Stegosaurus is ok but you're better off with a 1d3+1 from SM5, while damage on the Triceratops is pathetic for it's level. The allstar here is the ability to just make more stego's as a standard action which really is fairly potent so I'll agree that at SM 5-6 the standard summons are worth counting. If we only account for this list the stone giant(Higher damage Power attack)/Dire tiger(Higher to hit) is the greatest marshal power while the elementals have improved 90% of combat maneuvers and greater bull rush which is awesome.
SM7
What? I can do the math if you want but the rex's damage is very low for this level. A SM4 tiger beats it. The dire crocodile does more damage and has death roll while retaining the same swallow whole size.
At level 3, your companion has 5 hd, str 20 dex 14 con 17 natural armor +6 , AC 21 before magic, 37 HP, full attacks for +7/1d4+5, +7/1d6+5, +7/1d6+5 before power attack, can squeeze everyhere a medium-sized creature can go without AC or attack penalty, and has dr 5/evil, resistance 10 to acid/cold/electricity, darkvision and spell resistance.
Also, you're a full caster.
could you post a full build?
Just the essentials: Aasimar, with the Scion of Humanity racial; Favored Class bonus: +½ level to one Oracle revelation -> Bonded Mount. Class: Oracle (Nature). Feats: Huntsmaster (the reason for Scion of Humanity), Celestial Servant.
Horse feats: Power Attack, Narrow Frame, Light Armor Proficiency. Stat boost used for Strength.
to make the pistolero truly overpowered give them a pair of this item, Pistol of the Everlasting Sky. you can shoot as many times as legally possible without needing to reload. plus add the distance property to them later and your a powerhouse of lead.
Except that it's 1) specifically banned from PFS play, 2) 73,300 GP and thus available at level 9 at the absolute earliest (hardly what the OP asked for), and 3) you can't enhance specific weapons in PFS.
What? I can do the math if you want but the rex's damage is very low for this level. A SM4 tiger beats it. The dire crocodile does more damage and has death roll while retaining the same swallow whole size.
N o one cares about the TRex damage output, you don't summon it for damage. You summon it for its ability to grapple and swallow whole anything up to huge size. It has a better CMB than the crocodile and it gets to act straight away on your turn. Which would you rather happen, your summons eats the enemy Wizard before he acts or the enemy disrupts your summon before you get to cast it.
Quote:
SM8 No dino's and the purple worm/giant are both awesome.
I will take 1d4+2 stegosaurs battering and tripping my enemies immediately as well as forming an immediate giant meat shield. Or if I really want a purple worm I will just summon one as the Saurian Shaman still gets to use all of the normal summons.
"Prehensile Tail Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery."
Why would you think you could reload with this? Not only is retrieving and reloading two entirely different things, the swift action doesn't even exist on the spectrum of possible time frames that it might take to reload a firearm.
What? I can do the math if you want but the rex's damage is very low for this level. A SM4 tiger beats it. The dire crocodile does more damage and has death roll while retaining the same swallow whole size.
N o one cares about the TRex damage output, you don't summon it for damage. You summon it for its ability to grapple and swallow whole anything up to huge size. It has a better CMB than the crocodile and it gets to act straight away on your turn. Which would you rather happen, your summons eats the enemy Wizard before he acts or the enemy disrupts your summon before you get to cast it.
Quote:
SM8 No dino's and the purple worm/giant are both awesome.
I will take 1d4+2 stegosaurs battering and tripping my enemies immediately as well as forming an immediate giant meat shield. Or if I really want a purple worm I will just summon one as the Saurian Shaman still gets to use all of the normal summons.
I'm not entirely sure how much better swallow whole is than out right killing the target (1d4+2 tigers can kill just about anything the rex can swallow) If I was swallowed whole I'd just start buffing GT away, heal up and then GT back. I agree summoning down is best but consider the following
He asked about PFS.
PFS Ends at 12 (Potentially higher but practically speaking 12)
In PFS each level is 1/12th of your career.
Comparing the SShaman to vanilla druid or menhir druid (Which is what I recommend)
Spoiler:
1: Largely the same neither has a true benefit. Detect undead finds haunts and the dino is mildly better than the cat at this level but the low to hit and low str bonus makes this a wash.
2: The transformation ability is awesome if you're able to prebuff... Unfortunately if you're able to prebuff the fight will probably be a cake walk anyway. The +1 CL ability is worth 30,000 gold according to the wondrous items category of the book. +1 CL especially at such a low level is substantially better and past 4th it's a clear win for menhir
3: No substantial gain or loss beyond more spells.
4: Menhir is miles ahead here with early access to raptor form or eagle form.
5: Natural spell for menhir servant allows him to essentially use wildshape as overland flight and rain toothy death from above. Your standard action summons for this level are abominable compared to all other options. A single melee strike might even be better than the level 1/2 summon option. Substantially better for the menhir druid over the SShaman.
6: Alright! A contest after 5 levels of boring 1 sided fail. Let's compare.
Menhir servant
Option 1: Be an air elemental raining spell death from above summoning from unhittable locations.
Option 2: Be a dire tiger for DPR or if allowed a giant octopus (Since you don't gain the aquatic subtype, slightly cheesy)
SShaman
Option 1: Be a Pteranodon and rain flying death from above summoning from unhittable locations. Oh wait, we can't.
Option 2: Be a Spinosaurus for DPR
Comparing Option 1 is simple. The menhir servant is able to do this because he has natural spell, you don't. Option 2 is more obscure. If you're allowed to use the giant octopus form since you don't gain the subtype it's a clear winner EVEN over the mighty spinosaurus. Let's pretend for the sake of argument you can't walk around with tentacly suction cups. For the sake of argument we'll allow the Spinosaurus to fit. Spinosaurus does 1 more point of damage /hit from strength and 2 points less per hit on average. Assuming the above our dino friend still gets two less attacks and doesn't gain swallow whole. It'll do less damage an be able to access fewer locations. This should be clear to anyone with objectivity that menhir is better here.
7: Option 1 becomes viable for SShaman which is nice. However Menhir can take planar wildshape, powerful shape, or other augmenting feats. The standard action summons still do less damage than the regular ones especially summoning down. I'll give this level I could reluctantly give to the shaman because standard action raptors is good enough to actually care about. I'd call it a wash personally.
8: This is where effectiveness becomes more or less evened with a slight edge to SShaman with raptors. I'd still personally want tigers but that's just me. Personally I'd call it a wash but see level 7. If however your GM allows rot "Poison based ability" to count as a poison you gain this is so far away from the SShaman it's not funny.
9: Here's where the true effectiveness diverges. Standard action summon a stun monster carries most of the remaining power for the SShaman. SShaman but more or less even if they allow the above mentioned poison.
10: This level is all the SShaman unless you really want crit immunity that large elementals provide. This is a clear winner for the SShaman
11: As above, only more extreme.
12: Actually this is much tougher than it seems. Summoning as a standard action is dang good now BUT so is having 60 foot reach that threatens every caster you see ever. I'd still say summoning stunners wins out here. SShaman.
So to summarize there are a couple potential tables
2-6 are CLEARLY menhir. This isn't a real contest
1,7-8 are more or less even/personal preference.
9-11 are CLEARLY SShaman. This isn't a real contest (unless rot is poison)
12 I don't really know what to say. DR5/- and crit immunity are good utility, Reach 60 makes casters who aren't aware cry but standard action stun monsters are definitely powerful. I honestly don't think either is more powerful at this point but rather both are VERY strong options at this level.
This is why I'd say menhir is better in PFS. In a game from 1-20 I'd take SShaman but it's clear to me that the levels 14 + are straight up better for SShaman. That said I'd rather have menhir as standard action summons from low levels are abominable travesties.
"Prehensile Tail Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery."
Why would you think you could reload with this? Not only is retrieving and reloading two entirely different things, the swift action doesn't even exist on the spectrum of possible time frames that it might take to reload a firearm.
"Reloading a weapon" is a specific type of action that includes retrieving the piece of ammunition and loading the weapon. The tail can certainly do this. If the "reloading action" is faster than a swift action, it takes a swift action. If it takes longer than a swift action, it takes that amount of time.
I agree that you would not be able to reload 4 barrels in 1 round with your tail.
I'm surprised I only saw one paladin. Here's the(allegedly) invincible paladin build
Demon Spawn Tiefling Paladin (oath of vengeance)
Stats:
Str: 18 +1 at 4 and 8
Dex 10
Con: 14
Wis 8
Int 10
Cha 16
Skills: Perception and Diplomacy, use a trait for perception (either the osirion faction trait or eyes and ears of the city)
Feats
1: Fey Foundling. This is really all you need to break this build
3: Power Attack
5: Greater Mercy (as a paranoid fool who hates the darkness rules, I actually took fiend sight twice at 5th and 7th, but the chances of it being relevant are rare I admit. This gives you 1d6+2 hp for almost every LoH)
7: whatever you want (suggested: lunge, extra LoH fiend sight-see 5
9: whatever (add improved crit to the suggestion, you probably already have your weapon keen though. If you've started heavily investing in extra LoH take ultimate Mercy because bringing dead people back to life is good)
11: what ever
Favored class point: +1 hp healed when using LoH to heal yourself. This + Fey Foundling=win
Spells:
1: Hero's Defiance. More hero's defiance
2: Litany of Righteousness. There's no reason to take any other litany
3: daylight or maybe something else. If you went Oath vs. dragons instead of vengeance(slightly suboptimal) take fly. More litany of righteousness it's that good
Equipment:
no-Dachi. Keen it when you can
Full plate. Just because you have the most hp in the game doesn't mean you need to let everything hit you. Only +s for this
Belt: Str primarily. If for some reason you're still worried about dying tack con on
Headband: Charisma! We need more LoH!!!!! The more the merrier!!!
Bracers: Bracers of the merciful knight. Get these PRONTO!!!! Yes they're 15k but they give you 2d6+4 hp from every LoH PLUS 2 more LoH!!!!
Cloak: of resistance, maybe minor displacement but seriously saves can never be too high
Way finder+clear spindle ioun stone. Yes your saves are some of the best. There's always the chance of a one, and your allies certainly won't be able to kill you or really deal with you.
At 12th level you have a ton of LoHs healing at (assuming no applicable mercy) 9d6+30 hp as a SWIFT ACTION. You still have the ability to full attack for a bunch of damage and wreck face. As if this weren't enough, when you drop you can as an immediate action heal yourself for 10d6+32. You ain't dying
I am building a paladin along these exact lines, except I'm an angel-blooded aasimar aasimar, so the only difference is my LoHs heal for 1 less HP per level. My other change will be Greater Mercy at 3 and Power Attack at 5. With the extra healing at level 3 I'll feel extremely comfortable playing in 4-5s for all of level 3.
I am building a paladin along these exact lines, except I'm an angel-blooded aasimar aasimar, so the only difference is my LoHs heal for 1 less HP per level. My other change will be Greater Mercy at 3 and Power Attack at 5. With the extra healing at level 3 I'll feel extremely comfortable playing in 4-5s for all of level 3.
I think a good PFS character needs to be able to bring two things to the table: (1) competent in combat and (2) cover some skill rolls.
Not every PFS encounter is going to be resolved by combat.
Some require a good diplomacy or bluff roll.
Others require a Knowledge or Survival roll.
Any encounter with a "monster" - undead, evil outsider, ooze, etc. - can be greatly aided by someone with good stats in Knowledge Religion(for undead), Planes (outsiders), Dungeoneering (Oozes), and Arcane (magical beasts).
Dungeoneering doesn't come up as much as the other three, but being able to ask a question on things like DR or special attacks can help plan battle tactics.
Halfing Fighter 1 / Cleric 11 (Desna)
Alignment: GC
Domains: Liberation and Travel
Alternate Racial Trait: Warslinger (can load slings as free action, no need to to use two feats, though you lose +2 to climb/acrobatics)
