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Being that I hate playing as females and prefer to go by a name I recall, what is the ruling on these changes? If I am playing a pregen, am I allowed to make a Gender change and name change? Being that this is purely vanity and for roleplaying and has zero impact on the game.
I have always been allowed this by gms, however suddenly one says this is not allowed at all. Through all my searching I have seen lots of things saying changing vanity stuff about pregens is fine but, obviously, you may not change weapons, armor, or the like.
Is there a flat rule on this, or Is the VL in my area just pointlessly adding restrictions? Its reaching a point where I am starting to feel pushed out of the PFS by silly pointless things. I understand not changing a Rapier to a greatsword, but really? Vanity stuff?
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The Guide says you can use (select) a level-appropriate pregenerated character available from Paizo's site, the NPC Codex or the event coordinator. I don't see any further comment on whether you can change any aspect of it, so it's the GM's call for their table.
Some changes might hold up the GM and the table if they're mechanically complex and time-consuming. It's not desirable to change the character sheet once you've started play. I agree that changing the name and gender before the session begins has no rule implication.
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This is a simple 4 hour game, With the cleric being used a single time, The problem is the VC Is NOT the gm of the table, or if he is hes breaking a flat rule himself by playing a PC at a legal table. However What GM is going to annoy a VC to uphold what should be simple fun and fair play.
The funny thing is I joined the gain to HELP them as they had not a single healer.
Contributor
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If you're playing a level 1 pregen, you can change *anything* about a character before your first game at level 2.
If you're playing a non-level 1 pregen... I *really* don't see a reason why making the name/sex different is an issue. I've let players do it countless times (usually just changing one letter at the end of the name and making the character look the same only slightly more masculine or feminine as per the players' preferences).
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Its the 7th level. I always Go by Londar (I dont think most people know my real name lol) and just prefer playing a male unless im in a silly mood. I would FULLY understand his objects if it was even something as complex as messing with height, and weight and eyes, thats just over kill, its only a pregen after all.
I am more a roleplayer than a fighter, and enjoy strange builds. Sometimes they make for insane power houses (Fighter with a 20 dex,bow feats, weapon Finess and a Rapier,was doing damage like an arcane caster, vs My poor dead Battle Bard lol) So when you take that roleplaying away from me, my fun goes too.
I wont even play certain classes due to the fast I become a table hog (like an inquistor) Guess getting a bit off topic here. So it seems there is no official ruling to it, other than something I saw in the forum stating Vanity only Changes to pregens where fine so long as they did not slow down the game.
As an ORGANIZED play group, I kinda think rules like that need to be universal, as it leaves me feeling pushed out of the group or unwanted because the ruling just makes no sense.
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Generally I have no issue with players changing the name and gender of a pregen; in fact, changing the name may be necessary to avoid confusion if you end up with two Kyras at the table.
The only times I'd not allow it are:
- If the player wanted to use a stupid/offensive name that was spoiling the fun of others
- If the name was going to cause confusion, e.g. using the same name as the dwarf barbarian he usually plays, when he's playing the Merisiel pregen.
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So far the general thoughts are its pretty much accepted to have those changes, and since there IS a rule from a podcast stating vanity changes that dont slow down the game or change mechanics on pregens are allowed, As well as changing the spells they have memorized before the game.
considering I write my spells out totally using a special work sheet, this makes it EASIER on the GM. This is starting to feel more like I walked into some little click.
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Mike I know that this MUST be WAY down your list. But I feel that an FAQ that lets us know what we may do to pregens should be released. May we change names and sex? May we Changes spells ahead of time (from our spell list of course) so we dont have to say, Im sleeping 8 hours, Im going to go pray at the start of each game?
And if we have time, can we change that blonde cleric pregen into a Fiery redhead when we take up a pregen to make the game more fun for our friends?
I don't see the problem with changing name and sex. Its a purely cosmetic thing and entirely for the players comfort. Whoever is playing one is giving up quiet a bit of options by playing a pregen. Of course, nothing is to keep you from playing Kyra and introducing yourself by saying "Call me Joe!"
What's the GM you had have against the idea anyway?
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I've always understood that the player with a pregen can change non-game affecting aspects. So you can't change equipment, stats, race, or special abilities, but you could change name, gender, attitude, or even alignment on those pregens who are not affected by that.
I tend to run a lot of the "new to the game" tables, and I hope we aren't expecting brand new players to adopt the entire personality of the pre-gen character. If we do, it would make it much harder to engage people, because part of the fun of RPG is playing whatever you want. If new players have to learn the rules AND become an improve actor with a pre-set personality at the same time, I suspect we won't get as many interested.
The other problem with expecting players to adopt the pre-gens personality is that we'd have to worry about things like "Well, I don't think Valeros would do that, so I won't allow it"...and that way lies madness. :-)
I'm also very curious about how changing the gender of the character affects the game mechanics. As MrSin pointed out, changing the name is as easy as requesting the players call you something else. Can you also just have them pretend you're a man? When does it ever matter, really?
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When two people bust out kyra pregens what does the DM expect? It is absolutely silly to not allow a player to make cosmetic changes to a pregen character.
If a play busts out a pregen there is a good chance(not 100%) that they are a newish player. Why limit a new player and have them have less fun but stopping them from changing somethign that will not effect the game?
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This is all exactly my point. My Jaw dropped when a VC no less, tells me I cant Change the gender and name of a pregen, nor the spells memed as a cleric( umm I dont have time to pray a get a little rest?) I just wanted some feed back from the rest of the community on this to make sure I wasnt the only one that thought it totally absurd to push a rule like that on me.
I made the choice to just not show up. Im here for fun, not to roleplay something in a way I dont like. Besides lets face it, the pregen level 7 Cleric Icon has NON domain cure spells memed. Thats just plain silly.
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I don't see the problem with changing name and sex. Its a purely cosmetic thing and entirely for the players comfort. Whoever is playing one is giving up quiet a bit of options by playing a pregen. Of course, nothing is to keep you from playing Kyra and introducing yourself by saying "Call me Joe!"
What's the GM you had have against the idea anyway?
Thats the funny thing it wasnt even the GM, It was a VC from a different area, saying its a flat out rule you may not make those changes.
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Maybe this a sample of poor numbers but I find VO's as towards the bottom half of the quality of people in PFS. These are people that want the power usually and once they have it want to flex their muscle. The people that want the position least are usually the best at it. Well in my experience.
I am heavily annoyed by kyra's spell selection to. They give her cure spells she can spontaneously cast. This is self redundant. I have seen 3 people that NEVER played pathfinder before ask when reading her sheet why does she have cure spells. As a DM I outright tell them they can change the spells, as another player I ask the DM if it is ok.
I have also seen a DM not allow her to change her spells even after a day's reast saying "she only gets the spells that are on her sheet"
You will encounter difficult people where ever you are. Being a VO in my experience means you are more likely to encounter someone like that.
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This is all exactly my point. My Jaw dropped when a VC no less, tells me I cant Change the gender and name of a pregen, nor the spells memed as a cleric( umm I dont have time to pray a get a little rest?) I just wanted some feed back from the rest of the community on this to make sure I wasnt the only one that thought it totally absurd to push a rule like that on me.
Well, hang on, the initial story is shifting here. Spells prepared is a mechanical change (as is alignment, which was exactly the change that I was thinking could get complicated and argumentative). Kyra starts the scenario with the spells listed on her sheet unless the GM or the event coordinator providing the pregen says otherwise. In game time, she can do what any cleric can do by the rules, such as praying at the next dawn for different spells.
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Can you use the pregen as the basis for your character going into level 2?Since the official pregens are supposed to be PFS legal builds (barring necessary changes such as Ezren's bonus feat), you can use it as the basis for your character going into the next scenario.
Spell change is ASSUMED that I slept the night before, and am praying before the adventure, I keep my changed spells om a seperate sheet in the case that I cant get the short prayer needed to change them. Though all the gms in my area (other than this one encounter) allow the Change before hand on a pregem for the sake of simplicity they assume We where smart enough to sleep the night before and prepare.
If not we all just generally set off shopping and resting anyway. So its kinda a silly point unless there is a possible reason or danger right for the moment you start play and we assume the cleric is as dumb as the rouge about how to prepare her spells (pun intended on the 10 int rouge, me i happen to like skill points on a rouge)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The rules of the game say: you can play a pre-generated character. The name, the gender, the color of the clothes, and even moreso the alignment and initial spell selection, are part of that pre-generation process.
Most GMs are fine with you making cosmetic changes to the character. But you're probably not supposed to do that. I think this is a case where table GMs feel a call to be more "pastoral" and less "doctrinal".
I don't know who the venture officer in question is, but that person may have felt that, given the office, he or she should be as close to doctrine as possible.
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There are a bunch of scenarios that do not give you an evening to rest and recover spells. The most recent that comes to mind is "Night March".
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Speaking of rogues and skill points, that's not the kind of rogue Merisiel is. She is, in the words of another fandom, "a pudding-bag full of knives". If you want a lot of skills, play Lem.
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Maybe this a sample of poor numbers but I find VO's as towards the bottom half of the quality of people in PFS. These are people that want the power usually and once they have it want to flex their muscle. The people that want the position least are usually the best at it. Well in my experience.
Wow. I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I feel like I have to jump in and defend the VOs, because I've met a pretty good number of them (probably around 20 or so), and they're mostly good people. Nobody's perfect, of course, and there's one who I'm glad is now an ex-VO, but he's a clear exception to an otherwise good group. They put a lot of effort into helping keep Society play running, organizing game days and conventions, constantly GMing, and providing the playing opportunities for the rest of us. PFS wouldn't be nearly as successful without them, and I think we all owe them a big "thank you" for helping to make the campaign such a success.
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Maybe this a sample of poor numbers but I find VO's as towards the bottom half of the quality of people in PFS. These are people that want the power usually and once they have it want to flex their muscle. The people that want the position least are usually the best at it. Well in my experience.
Wow. I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I feel like I have to jump in and defend the VOs, because I've met a pretty good number of them (probably around 20 or so), and they're mostly good people. Nobody's perfect, of course, and there's one who I'm glad is now an ex-VO, but he's a clear exception to an otherwise good group. They put a lot of effort into helping keep Society play running, organizing game days and conventions, constantly GMing, and providing the playing opportunities for the rest of us. PFS wouldn't be nearly as successful without them, and I think we all owe them a big "thank you" for helping to make the campaign such a success.
I've only met two VC (3 if you include our illustrious leader) Both are exceptional players/GM's/leaders. Looking at the boards most of the VO's that you see here have many stars after their name. I'm sorry that you feel they are less than stellar perhaps you should step up and do something for the community.
Edit: There was going to be more to this post but I decided it would be inappropriate and you shouldn't feed trolls anyway.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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There are a bunch of scenarios that do not give you an evening to rest and recover spells. The most recent that comes to mind is "Night March".
Just curious Chris,
If you have a Kyra who *does* get a morning* to rest and recover spells in a scenario, do you let her player repick? We did, and it came in handy for Dexios to 'recharge' and Kyra reselct.**
I do think that Ezren Damiel and Seyteyl need spellbooks on their NPC blocks though.
And if you do, what spells does she get to select?***
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Yes for Kyra, and Lini, I suppose. I agree with all your spoilers, Matt (but not the parentheses in the last one; under those circumstances, the player needs free access to the rules.)
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"I do think that Ezren Damiel and Seyteyl need spellbooks on their NPC blocks though."
Are thee legal pre-gens for Damiel and Seyteyl, Matt?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Heh, now that I think of it... there's aren't. And here I was trying to remember their names to be complete.
As to the third spoiler... I was thinking 'free access' as in the CRB (assuming the player is fairly new) and what the others players can pony up.
Primarily so this wouldn't happen.
Player 1: I can pick spells, any suggestions?
Player 2: Take Matthew's unbeatable cheese as your 4th level spell.
GM: What book is that in?
Player 2: Cheesemakers of Golarion! It's awesome!
GM: I'm not familiar with it, do you have your copy?
Player 2: No, I didn't bring it, I'm playing Sir Charges-with-Bison and didn't need it, but it's really awesome! It drops deeper darkness and gives all your allies fiendsight!
GM: Nope, not today it isn't.
Plus if Players 2 & 3 pick all of player 1's spells, is he really playing his PC?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16
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I honestly can't see any good reason for a GM to forbid reskinning purely cosmetic details of a pregenerated PC. I can only conjecture that some people worry too much.
Personally, I'm fond of saddling shorthanded groups with "Aryk the Barbaric Cleric", Kyra reskinned as a brutish Kellid who speaks atrocious Common and proudly shows everyone his "Semi-Tar", given to him by a celestial servant of his goddess.
By the way, Kyra the iconic cleric has the Healing domain. She takes some healing spells as her domain spells: That's why she has them prepared.
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Maybe this a sample of poor numbers but I find VO's as towards the bottom half of the quality of people in PFS. These are people that want the power usually and once they have it want to flex their muscle. The people that want the position least are usually the best at it. Well in my experience.
Wow. I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I feel like I have to jump in and defend the VOs, because I've met a pretty good number of them (probably around 20 or so), and they're mostly good people. Nobody's perfect, of course, and there's one who I'm glad is now an ex-VO, but he's a clear exception to an otherwise good group. They put a lot of effort into helping keep Society play running, organizing game days and conventions, constantly GMing, and providing the playing opportunities for the rest of us. PFS wouldn't be nearly as successful without them, and I think we all owe them a big "thank you" for helping to make the campaign such a success.
I have played D&D for over 20 decades. PFS for just over 1 year. Except my older brother picking on me when I was little in D&D every bad experience has been in PFS. Almost all of them with VOs. I used to run public D&D games in my area, so that is not the issue.
I have knowingly played with 6 VOs.
I named a cheating technical we call the VL special where you roll yoru dice before hand if it is good you keep it. If not you reroll whent he attention is on you
I have had a VC horribly cheat at the table as a DM that I spoke about and created a thread about.
The second PFS game I played at I watched a not yet VL plot with other players in the group to kill new players characters cause they did not like the summoner class.
I played Day of the Demon recently where I was ignored so much other players moved my figure and debated what traps would hit me when I clearly told the table I was by the foutain.
Although Mark Mastej and Matt Starch were very awesome and if you play with them they are a pleasure.
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I have played D&D for over 20 decades.I'm curious, how'd you play DnD in 1813.
dec·ade
/ˈdekād/Noun1.A period of ten years.
2.A period of ten years beginning with a year ending in 0: "the fourth decade of the nineteenth century".
Are you serious you do not know what a decade and a century are?
Cold napalm you are smarter than that I have read yoru psots. You are pretty brilliant at times.
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Finlanderboy,
I am sorry you have had such a poor experience with PFS so far. All I can really say is that I hope it gets better in the future.
As for your comments about "finding VO's being towards the bottom half of the quality of people in PFS", and, "These are people that want the power and once they have it they want to flex thier muscle", I can only really speak for myself.
Both promotions, first to VL, and then a month ago to VC, came as a surprise to me. In the case of the VL, I was just quietly running a weekly PFS game at my local Game store, Toy City, in Keene NH. Don Walker the VC for Boston, had ran me through my first PFS games at Carnage On the Mountain in 09. A little over a year and a half ago, he heard about what I was doing, and offered me the VL position. I was equally distant from both ALbany and Boston and Don felt that it would be good to have someone covering the middle ground: Vermont. I have been helping both the Albany and Boston lodge. Don asked if I could work on getting games going around the Amherst area in Western MA about an hour south of me. So over the past few months I have been working on getting games started. I have helped to get two groups started. Hopefully there will be more.
About a month ago, much to my surprise, Mike Brock offered me the position of Venture Captain and after I accepted He promoted me. I think both Dan Donnely, the VC of Albany, and Don Walker the VC of Boston had been plotting this for a while. I was just happily chugging along.
Did I want to be VC ? Was I actively working towards it? All I can say, was that I thought that it would be nice to be a VC someday, I was quite happily chugging along as a VL,
As for wether I am a Tin Plated Dictator who rules his players with an Iron fist? Well, I don't think I'm a tin plated dictator.....gold plated yes, not tin.. Tin is so tacky. :D
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Opps my bad I mistyped a 0, I read past.
Thanks for both of you correcting my poor error. I was dumb this time.
Myles I completely agree there are great VOs, I mentioned two I enjoyed greatly. I appreciate you take it well and handle it well. I also tried to make sure it was in my small experience of what I personally noticed. So by no means is definitive of every and I apologize for those VOs that are solid that took offense.
There was a joke a professor told me in college after I disprove his thesis. He got verbally abusive and left class for the day. In a apology the next class he asked me "What's an idiot with a doctorate? An idiot."
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So by no means is definitive of every and I apologize for those VOs that are solid that took offense.
Thank you for apologizing. With more than 300 VO's in the ranks, I haven't met them all, but the 50+ I have met are all pretty decent.
Besides, I'll let you in on a secret... VO's have very little power, just responsibility. (Except for those select few of us with secret mind control powers, of course...)
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Poke...also not me :P . Dylos has the same avatar as me is all...go go double brain fart hehe.Cold napalm is right, Finlanderboy.
20 decades is 20 periods of ten years each. That's 200 years.
Perhaps you meant to say 2 decades.
Well I appreciate yoru insight even if I disagree sometimes it is a great counterpoint. So I made sure to compliment you, so I do not feel like a jerk. Just an idiot.
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Since neither a character's gender nor name has any mechanical effect (and I can't think of a time that "reskinning" a man into a woman or vice versa would cause any issues), there's nothing wrong in my book with making this change. If you want to play 7th-level Kyra as a male named Londar, I don't see how that has any effect on anything as long as everyone at the table knows that "Londar" is still the Kyra pregen so there's no confusion about you starting with a 7th-level PC you didn't level up to that point.