I'm Being Excluded From a New Pathfinder Campaign


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Allow me to explain the situation. I'm new to playing tabletop RPGs, but I've played many computer RPGs. Among them, the Baldur's Gate Saga led me to consider tabletop RPGs as a way to explore the genre in more depth. Additionally, in my youth I was exposed to D&D campaigns DMed by my Father for the benefit of my Sister and about half a dozen of her friends. Of course, I was too young to play with them, but eagerly observed and yearned for my chance to roll the die... and in my late 20s, it seems history is repeating itself.

Recently, a few of my friends and coworkers decided to create a Pathfinder campaign. I was not with them when they initiated the idea, but when a couple of them asked me to join the other night, I agreed. So I mentioned it to the DM yesterday and his reaction was less than encouraging.

He just began working on the campaign, and with his workload doesn't expect to have a campaign ready until August. But he told me it was too late, that he already began designing the campaign for three players and a fourth would ruin everything. Additionally, he said my favored class of Sorcerer was out of the question because one of the other players was already a Wizard. On top of that, he doubted that the other players invited me, implying that they'd all have to meet before he could consider including me. Finally, he ridiculed my knowledge of the genre, belittling me for never playing a pen and paper RPG, saying he feared that my experience with video games means I was expecting hack and slash. Naturally, I disagree.

I kept asking him to reconsider until he gave up and said he was going to cancel the whole campaign. When my other friends heard of this, they all blamed me and wouldn't stand up for me despite having invited me to play the night before. I told him I'd back off if he reinstated the campaign for their benefit, and he agreed. The rest of them are still mad at me, and I feel rejected; once again relegated to the sidelines while others embark on a Roleplaying adventure. Of course, he told me I wasn't allowed to watch them play either.

What makes it tougher is the fact two of the players are really good friends of mine and won't stick up for me to the DM. I think it's BS I can't hang out with my friends and join in on the fun because the DM is being nuts. It's not like he hates me, we're not close like I am with the others, but we get along. What should I do? How should I proceed?


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Quit hanging around jerks. These people are not your friends.


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^ what he said ^

Hate to break it to you, but if those two are "really good friends" of yours, they wouldn't do that.

Sovereign Court

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Seriously, he did you a favor. Try meetup.com or your local PFS game. If being online doesn't bother you look for an online game.


you can always add another player, bump up the ac or hitpoints to mobsa bit, or add another...but that not the case.

Either way, the group is siding with the DM about it...not right, but that how they are doing it, if you don't want to lose their friendship, then bow out gracefully.

If you really want to try out the game, search for your local game store and inquire about other groups or even PFS (pathfinder society)...This will give you experience, and if you talk about it among your friends and the dm, they might see you are really interested and have gained knowledge in it.

Don't worry about making a character for PFS, they have premades you can start with, and most groups will help out a brand new person.


+1 to the PFS idea. I've never had a bad group in PFS.

Edited for clarity.

Liberty's Edge

I'm sorry you're having such difficulty. This is a social game and one that generally assumes four players in a party.

Do you live in a populated area or a rural area? If its a populated area, you might have some luck finding other groups. Look lower on this site's forum and look for the gamers connection area. You can post and see if there are any other gamers in your area. Another option is to look and see if there are any PFS games going on near you. Again, if you look lower on this message board for the Pathfinder Society section, there would be more info there.

Best of luck, and I hope you can start gaming soon with a minimal amount of trouble.

EDIT: wow, I got super-ninja'd!


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Doesn't sound like your friends are your friends if they won't back you with a shred of honesty.

Doesn't sound like you should want to play with a GM who belittles anyone. if that's already his/her behaviour - it does not bode well for a fulfilling and enjoyable social interaction.

Doesn't sound like any of the people you mention are very mature.

Save whatever you can of your own dignity, ignore your "friends'" opprobrium. Don't feel bad for missing out on what sounds like a sub-par event.

By all means direct each and every one of them to this post.

Try a PbP here on the boards - it's fun and best of all transparent. We don't do "he said, she said" here.


Find other people to play with... the DM sounds like a dick and too crazy. If your friends want to play in his novella then that's fine.

Also, shouldn't this be in Advice?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Maybe not the most mature response, but you could always bring the game up to the DM again in front of one of the friends who invited you, mentioning aloud that said friend had mentioned you'd be welcome.

This at least forces the friend to come clean to you or to the DM.

Again, this is not at all mature or healthy behavior. But no one has ever accused me of either.


The Shining Fool wrote:

Maybe not the most mature response, but you could always bring the game up to the DM again in front of one of the friends who invited you, mentioning aloud that said friend had mentioned you'd be welcome.

This at least forces the friend to come clean to you or to the DM.

Again, this is not at all mature or healthy behavior. But no one has ever accused me of either.

If someone wants to be two faced like this they deserve it.


Wow, thanks for responding so quickly! Unfortunately, I think the best course of action is to look elsewhere to fulfill my desire to play. I think the DM is going to be difficult to work with and my friends are going to be the ones to suffer.

I posted this is the beginners section because I am a noob. I was trying to guage whether or not the DM was being just in his decision or if he was being a jerk. I wasn't sure if it was a common practice to be so exclusive or if my instincts were correct and I was being excluded for petty reasons.

I guess I'll have to check out the online games, since my town is rather small. Thanks for your advice guys, I really appreciate it!


Start Here.

Recruitment forum is people looking for players to join, or where you would start a thread for beginning your own game as GM.

Discussion is Out-of-character commentary for games, and of course Play-by-Post is the actual In-character game threads.

Good luck =)


If I were running a campaign with three players I would jump at the opportunity of having a fourth. Adding a fourth or fifth player is worlds different from adding a sixth or seventh.

These people seem to have some shitty qualities. The stereotypes of nerd social behavior exist for a reason, and they don't all involve introversion.


id honestly scoff at my "friends" and stop hanging out with them. when they ask why, link them this thread.

stomach turning the attitude that DM had and saddening the reaction your "friends" had.

normally i wouldnt say lose friends over a pen and paper game, but it doesnt sound like they are friends at all.


I have to agree with the sentiment that these people are not your friends, and it would help you to admit that. Any DM that wouldn't jump at the opportunity to include a 4th player, AND the opportunity to nurture a new player, is a classic "bad DM" and well worth avoiding.

Don't settle for a mediocre gaming experience, there are some good online options available, and many use computer software (skype, maptools, et al) to really bring the group together.


Just to reinforce the point: they're probably not your friends.

The GM sounds pretty bad anyway, and the game will likely fall apart sooner rather than later.


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Heck, I'll include a sixth player or a seventh player in my game if it means someone is likely to return for a game some other time. Pathfinder is a game that requires a minimum number of people more than it suffers from slightly too many people.

Sounds like this guy just really doesn't want to game with you, and he's being a diva about it, threatening to cancel the game completely if others don't let him have his way.

I'd say look for other games in your area, but failing that let them have a few sessions then inquire as to how it's going. If the GM wants to play he's not going to cancel his game because you asked. If it's going well, or even if it's going poorly, perhaps one of your friends might be interested in playing in another campaign with you, or even GMing one of his own with you as one of the players.

Just because you're not in that game, doesn't mean some of those same guys might not be willing to be in another game with you. And if that GM is as big of a diva as he sounds, I wouldn't count on that game lasting too long anyway.

Meetup.com is also a good way to find players and/or games though, as someone said. I played in a short D&D 3.5e campaign (my first tabletop experience) with guys a met through meetup.com back in 2004.

Grand Lodge

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These boards always amuse me. Rigtheous indignation because we hear a one-sided story in which the other party is always the one to blame.

Nobody dares ask the question what might have caused the behaviour (if the story did unfold the way it is portrayed).

Perhaps the other players were badgered into agreeing to you playing with them, but weren't all that keen to begin with, also perceiving you wouldn't fit the attitude of the DM or the rest of the players.

Hell, maybe they like you for watching football with. I sure wouldn;t invite some of my poker-buddies to my Pathfinder games.

Anyway, not blaming the OP in any way. The advice people gave you is sound. For whatever reason playing with these people is not in the cards. You could ask why they feel this way, see if it could be resolved, but I reckon the best idea is to find some other people to play with.

Silver Crusade

You should consider yourself happy, that you didn't end up in that group. From the reactions of the DM it is pretty clear, that he didn't want you to join the group, and he didn't seem very polite or honest about it either.

When it comes to your friends and coworkers (mixing work into it makes it way more complicated), they either didn't really want you there (maybe they didn't expect you to agree), or were unwilling to stand up for you.
At least that tiny shred of honesty, is something you should expect from friends.

My adice, search for another group. Learn the rules, get the beginners box and or the core rulebook and start reading.

Once you have a good grasp of the rules, your position will be far better.

Liberty's Edge

Sounds like they didn't want to play with you.

So...that is that then.

I have lots of friends I don't want to game with. I'm sure lots of people I know don't want to game with me.

The world keeps on spinning...

You don't get to be part of every activity your friends are involved with. Otherwise marital relations would be a very, very different...


Jordo Longyfoots wrote:

These boards always amuse me. Rigtheous indignation because we hear a one-sided story in which the other party is always the one to blame.

Hell, maybe they like you for watching football with. I sure wouldn;t invite some of my poker-buddies to my Pathfinder games.

Very true, and certainly worth noting to the OP to take a moment and evaluate their own personality.

To Kajiiata: Is it perhaps something in your personality that is creating a distance in this area of your relationships? Have you earned a poor reputation amongst these people? Are you as blameless as you feel? No one on this forum can answer that unless they know you personally, or you stick around long enough on this forum for us to get to understand you better.

As to why Jordo wouldn't invite a poker buddy to game with him, would it be in any way related to the OP? If that person doesn't care to play RPGs, then it's a bit of a irrelevant comparison. If (s)he has personality traits that you fear will interfere with the gaming experience, then I think that is completly valid.

In any case, since the OP believes his "friends" are purposely excluding him when he is showing a genuine interest, that neither side is willing to ask the hard questions (or are being excluded by the OP), shows that one or more people involved are still pretty immature, regardless of age.

Liberty's Edge

Jordo Longyfoots wrote:


Nobody dares ask the question what might have caused the behaviour (if the story did unfold the way it is portrayed).

I do :)


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Wow, it's the GM's fault for not wanting to add another player? Admittedly if the GM did say what he did about the player not having experience then he is being a jerk, but after being told no repeatedly, the OP is also being a jerk for continuing to beg to be in the game.

There is no "right" to be in someone's game if they don't want you in it.


Vod Canockers wrote:
There is no "right" to be in someone's game if they don't want you in it.

I agree, but there is a right from friendship for getting the honest reason for the exclusion. I've been turned down due to the party size already being a bit bigger than the DM was comfortable with, and I feel no angst from that. I've been turned down due to personality clashes between certain other players. In all cases I knew the "real" reason, and was able to accept the decision gracefully (if not always happily).

Liberty's Edge

Gherrick wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
There is no "right" to be in someone's game if they don't want you in it.
I agree, but there is a right from friendship for getting the honest reason for the exclusion.

The "Real" reason is the GM didn't want to run a game with him.

Let us assume everything the OP said is true. What we know is the GM had what must have been a somewhat lengthy discussion with the OP where the GM laid out a number of reason why they didn't want the OP to be in the group.

The OP laid out what I count as 6 separate reasons he didn't want the OP in the game (1. Tried to join too late. 2. GM already began designing the campaign for three players and a fourth would ruin everything. 3. Sorcerer was out of the question because one of the other players was already a Wizard. 4. He doubted that the other players invited the OP (implying he doesn't think anyone wants the OP in the Game) 5. OP has never playing a pen and paper RPG and 6. feared that the OP experience was expecting hack and slash.)

This is, again assuming the OP is 100% honest.

Then the OP bothered the GM so much the GM said "Nevermind, not worth the hassle, I don't even want to run a game at all if it is going to be this much of a pain.

The GM doesn't want to run for the OP. Probably because the GM thinks running for the OP would be a pain in the butt. Which based on this post...doesn't seem unreasonable.

Remember the GM is doing this for fun too...


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ciretose wrote:
Gherrick wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
There is no "right" to be in someone's game if they don't want you in it.
I agree, but there is a right from friendship for getting the honest reason for the exclusion.

The "Real" reason is the GM didn't want to run a game with him.

Let us assume everything the OP said is true. What we know is the GM had what must have been a somewhat lengthy discussion with the OP where the GM laid out a number of reason why they didn't want the OP to be in the group.

The OP laid out what I count as 6 separate reasons he didn't want the OP in the game (1. Tried to join too late. 2. GM already began designing the campaign for three players and a fourth would ruin everything. 3. Sorcerer was out of the question because one of the other players was already a Wizard. 4. He doubted that the other players invited the OP (implying he doesn't think anyone wants the OP in the Game) 5. OP has never playing a pen and paper RPG and 6. feared that the OP experience was expecting hack and slash.)

This is, again assuming the OP is 100% honest.

Then the OP bothered the GM so much the GM said "Nevermind, not worth the hassle, I don't even want to run a game at all if it is going to be this much of a pain.

The GM doesn't want to run for the OP. Probably because the GM thinks running for the OP would be a pain in the butt. Which based on this post...doesn't seem unreasonable.

Remember the GM is doing this for fun too...

Actually, 99/100 when you start listing a bunch of unfounded accusations, it's because you don't actually have a good reason. Though, I'd note that 1&2 are the saem, so you are inflating things. It's also stupid, since it is almost no work to adjust for 4 people rather than 3 (it actually makes things easier to design encounters). (3) is just a stupid reason on many levels. (4) is the DM assuming the OP is a liar without any backing. (5) is also the DM making assumptions, as it isn't true. (6) is based on (5) which as we already established is wrong.

The guy making a bunch of unfounded and insulting assumptions is the one being a jerk. That's the GM here. Then the GM had a whiny fit AFTER he told the OP that he couldn't play. Saying "I'm not running any game since there's this guy that wanted to join and I refused him" is emotionally manipulative and ridiculous. The OP already wasn't going to be in the game! It is just a method to get all of the OP's "friends" to line up behind the DM (because obviously he didn't actually trust his players to back him at all). The players were then spineless.

Not a group that is worth it. The whole thing is going to be completely dysfunctional.


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Based on this GM's excuses for not including a 4th player, you're not missing much.

Find a more welcoming group. Life's too short to game with people who (take it too seriously/can't be honest/can't communicate/are hostile to newcomers).

The best outcome might be the OP picking up the Gamemastery guide and making a go at it.

Silver Crusade

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Evil Lincoln wrote:

Based on this GM's excuses for not including a 4th player, you're not missing much.

Find a more welcoming group. Life's too short to game with people who (take it too seriously/can't be honest/can't communicate/are hostile to newcomers).

I'm in this boat. See the glass as half-full and please do check out the assorted wares online gaming has to offer. :)

Liberty's Edge

Let us say I'm having a party. I invite people to the party I want to come to my party.

At some point some guy I don't want to come to the party finds out about the party, and won't take a hint that I don't want him to come. So I cancel the party rather than have to go through the effort of throwing a party that I won't enjoy if "that guy" shows up.

That is what happened here.


ciretose wrote:

Let us say I'm having a party. I invite people to the party I want to come to my party.

At some point some guy I don't want to come to the party finds out about the party, and won't take a hint that I don't want him to come. So I cancel the party rather than have to go through the effort of throwing a party that I won't enjoy if "that guy" shows up.

That is what happened here.

Sure.

The solution, however, remains unchanged.

The OP shouldn't play with a group that doesn't want him, regardless of whether they're jerks or he is.

Since this guy came to the forums asking our help, I give him the benefit of the doubt.


ciretose wrote:

Let us say I'm having a party. I invite people to the party I want to come to my party.

At some point some guy I don't want to come to the party finds out about the party, and won't take a hint that I don't want him to come. So I cancel the party rather than have to go through the effort of throwing a party that I won't enjoy if "that guy" shows up.

That is what happened here.

We all understand the DM didn't want him to play. Even the OP understood.

The DM handled the whole thing incredibly immaturely and like a complete jerk.

It's not like the guy was going to just show up at the first gaming session uninvited. The extended discussion undoubtedly had more to do with the DM's voiced reasons being stupid than anything else.

Liberty's Edge

Agreed, but let us not make him a victim or a folk hero. Dude apparently pushed it to the point that a game didn't happen, ruining it for other people.

That is a behavior the OP needs to realize is also a problem. Likely one that is part of why the GM would rather not run a game at all than run a game with him in it...


ciretose wrote:

Agreed, but let us not make him a victim or a folk hero. Dude apparently pushed it to the point that a game didn't happen, ruining it for other people.

That is a behavior the OP needs to realize is also a problem. Likely one that is part of why the GM would rather not run a game at all than run a game with him in it...

Cire, I think your pushing back a little too hard. Cut the guy (and the people trying to make him feel better about his role in this lame situation) a break. Nobody's making a folk hero out of him.

Liberty's Edge

Why was the GM a jerk? The GM didn't want to play with this guy, gave the guy a number of reasons why he didn't want to play with this guy, and finally just didn't run the game at all because it wasn't worth the hassle, because this guy was making something he wanted to be fun for a group of people not fun.

The OP ruined the fun for everyone because he couldn't be a part of the fun.

So why is the GM, or the party thrower who cancelled, the one who is at fault in your mind?

Without the GM there would be no game. Now there is no game. It was a zero sum ending, just like the party not happening.

Now no one can have fun because the OP can't be a part of it...

Liberty's Edge

Evil Lincoln wrote:
ciretose wrote:

Agreed, but let us not make him a victim or a folk hero. Dude apparently pushed it to the point that a game didn't happen, ruining it for other people.

That is a behavior the OP needs to realize is also a problem. Likely one that is part of why the GM would rather not run a game at all than run a game with him in it...

Cire, I think your pushing back a little too hard. Cut the guy (and the people trying to make him feel better about his role in this lame situation) a break. Nobody's making a folk hero out of him.

Maybe. But dude is now complaining on a public forum about his "friends" because they are doing something without him.

I think far, far to often on here people validate behaviors that are causing the person asking for advice to have the problem in the first place.

If the OP wasn't welcome in the group, the OP should probably be looking in the mirror to think of ways they can change rather than demanding the world change to meet the OP.


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If he didn't want to play with the guy because of something the guy did, or some other source of personality clash, the GM should have said so. Just up and say "I don't like you, I'd rather not game with you" or something to that effect.

Instead he gave a bunch of half-assed reasons trying to beat around the bush and make the guy go away. The OP called him on it.

Might he have made himself an annoyance doing it? Maybe. But if the GM had a legitimate beef with him, he should have had the guts to actually tell him what his problem was, rather than this ridiculous song and dance.


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ciretose wrote:

Agreed, but let us not make him a victim or a folk hero. Dude apparently pushed it to the point that a game didn't happen, ruining it for other people.

That is a behavior the OP needs to realize is also a problem. Likely one that is part of why the GM would rather not run a game at all than run a game with him in it...

Well, I don't think you should post on these forums because you've not used the internet before. Your posts aren't constructive. Your grammar is non-existent. Lastly, you smell funny.

Is the above "argument" any more true or valid about you if we're talking about coming to my birthday party? No, it isn't. You'd have every right to disagree with me and it would probably start an argument. The fact that I didn't want you to show up would take a backseat to the fact I was being an a***ole and saying things that were stupid or untrue.

The DM or any player has every right to not want someone at their table*. That's fine. I doubt the discussion would have lasted as long if the DM was just more straightforward about. Was the DM was trying to spare the OP's feelings? No, the DM was not, because his stupid reasons are equally or more offensive than "I just don't want to game with you." There was nothing of equivalent offense from the OP in comparison -- and he even backed off when the DM did his "no game for anyone" fit. That back off shouldn't have even been needed since he wasn't even part of the game!

Now maybe the OP is distorting this all to heck and back, but I don't see any good reason to assume he's a liar. Just like I'm not going to assume you're a liar. He'd have to demonstrate that property first.

*Well, as much as anyone else. Obviously some reasons are more valid than others. This gets complicated quickly.


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ciretose wrote:

Maybe. But dude is now complaining on a public forum about his "friends" because they are doing something without him.

I think far, far to often on here people validate behaviors that are causing the person asking for advice to have the problem in the first place.

If the OP wasn't welcome in the group, the OP should probably be looking in the mirror to think of ways they can change rather than demanding the world change to meet the OP.

I find it interesting that you assume it MUST be the OP's fault. His friends did say he'd be welcome to play until the DM pitched his fit.

How is it not equally or more possible that the DM is overly controlling (common enough in DMs) and that his friends caved when the DM decided to put the game on the line over someone just ASKING if they could join?


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ciretose wrote:

Maybe. But dude is now complaining on a public forum about his "friends" because they are doing something without him.

I think far, far to often on here people validate behaviors that are causing the person asking for advice to have the problem in the first place.

If the OP wasn't welcome in the group, the OP should probably be looking in the mirror to think of ways they can change rather than demanding the world change to meet the OP.

I appreciate that you see yourself as the lone voice of dissent here, but honestly... It's just polite. We validate the poster because they're the person we're talking to.

The solution is the same either way. I could just say "group incompatible" but have a heart, man. You don't need to psychoanalyze other forum members. People should just give their advice without reading between the lines all the time.

Liberty's Edge

Orthos wrote:
If he didn't want to play with the guy because of something the guy did, or some other source of personality clash, the GM should have said so. Just up and say "I don't like you, I'd rather not game with you" or something to that effect.

Because if the GM said this no one one here would say that was mean...the GM was in a no win situation and eventually just cancelled the game rather than deal with the hassle.

The Dude tried to invite himself into a game and wouldn't take no for an answer.

The GM said no, and spent the time giving him reasons why he didn't want him, and now the GM is the bad guy?


ciretose wrote:
The Dude tried to invite himself into a game and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Read again. The Dude got invited by two of the players and went to talk to the GM about it, and the GM gave him BS reasons why he didn't want him around instead of straight-up saying "no, I don't want you".


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Evil Lincoln wrote:

I appreciate that you see yourself as the lone voice of dissent here, but honestly... It's just polite. We validate the poster because they're the person we're talking to.

The solution is the same either way. I could just say "group incompatible" but have a heart, man. You don't need to psychoanalyze other forum members. People should just give their advice without reading between the lines all the time.

And honestly there's also not much of a reason to doubt the OP's story, unless you start from the assumption he is lying. The story sounds quite consistent and I've seen that sort of thing before. It is well within the bounds of how a group of people could behave. The sequence of events is sound.

Even if the OP was a bit pushy, it does not justify the DM's arguments or behavior. But I don't see the OP as being unreasonably pushy. An argument is likely when someone starts insulting you -- especially when the arguments are largely just completely untrue. It can be hard to realize in the moment that you shouldn't even want to be in the game if this is what it would be like.

If the story didn't make sense or if he was proposing action that would require consideration, then my posts here would be different. As it is, there's no real benefit in assuming the OP is a liar and giving him the third degree. The net result is of such routine behavior would be making the forums unpleasant. The most likely short-term result is upsetting the OP for no gain.

Liberty's Edge

Drachasor wrote:
ciretose wrote:

Maybe. But dude is now complaining on a public forum about his "friends" because they are doing something without him.

I think far, far to often on here people validate behaviors that are causing the person asking for advice to have the problem in the first place.

If the OP wasn't welcome in the group, the OP should probably be looking in the mirror to think of ways they can change rather than demanding the world change to meet the OP.

I find it interesting that you assume it MUST be the OP's fault. His friends did say he'd be welcome to play until the DM pitched his fit.

How is it not equally or more possible that the DM is overly controlling (common enough in DMs) and that his friends caved when the DM decided to put the game on the line over someone just ASKING if they could join?

I throw a party and you aren't invited. You show up and I ask you to leave. You demand to know why and I give you a list of reasons why I don't want you at the party. You throw such a fit I cancel the party.

He asked. The GM said no. He wouldn't take no for an answer.

Yes, I think it is his fault.


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ciretose wrote:

Because if the GM said this no one one here would say that was mean...the GM was in a no win situation and eventually just cancelled the game rather than deal with the hassle.

The Dude tried to invite himself into a game and wouldn't take no for an answer.

The GM said no, and spent the time giving him reasons why he didn't want him, and now the GM is the bad guy?

You're presuming a great deal, yourself. Why don't we both step away from this thread for a while, since I'm pretty sure we're not helping?

Liberty's Edge

Orthos wrote:
ciretose wrote:
The Dude tried to invite himself into a game and wouldn't take no for an answer.
Read again. The Dude got invited by two of the players and went to talk to the GM about it, and the GM gave him BS reasons why he didn't want him around instead of straight-up saying "no, I don't want you".

Did the GM invite him?

No.

When he asked the person who is running the game (throwing the party) if he could play (come to the party), they (the host) said no. When no wasn't good enough, the party was cancelled.

And that is assuming his version is 100% accurate.


Yeah, I have better things to do than wasting time on yet another circular-flushing thread. Good riddance.


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ciretose wrote:

I throw a party and you aren't invited. You show up and I ask you to leave. You demand to know why and I give you a list of reasons why I don't want you at the party. You throw such a fit I cancel the party.

He asked. The GM said no. He wouldn't take no for an answer.

Yes, I think it is his fault.

THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. The game was still in planning stages and a few months away. He did NOT just pop in and "expect" to have a seat.

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