What kind of favored enemy would a ranger have to take in order to get the bonus against eidolons? In the bestiary it just says an eidolon is outsider (extraplanar), does this mean that there is no way to get a bonus against it with favored enemy?
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If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table below. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.)
I would think that the same applies to outsiders.
Yes, but there isn't a specified type in the eidolon description. I know you have to choose a subtype for outsiders but I can't find what kind of subtype you would need to pick.
Pick (extraplanar).
It isn't on the list of ranger favored enemies so I didn't know if it was a viable option.
Theconiel's post references the core rule book saying that there are types not listed on the table(like extra planar outsiders).
Alright, I was just afraid it might seem a little overpowered because if I am not mistaken any outsider that isn't on its home plane is extraplanar.
The vast majority of Outsiders are extraplanar. That's why they're called Outsiders. Allowing a ranger to pick Extraplanar as an outsider subtype would basically defeat the point of the subtype rule.
Also, sometimes an outsider doesn't have the extraplanar subtype (fire elemental on the elemental plane of fire, for example). So that would cause some weird situations.
My suggestion is to ask your GM to give Eidolons the "Eidolon" subtype.
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks everyone for helping me out.
It has nothing to do with the rules (that part looks pretty much solved) but I have to say that you have totally piqued my curiosity about the how and why your character decided to specialize in Eidolons.
In a campaign I am in the players are part of an order that go against outsiders. Summoning is outlawed in the world and we enforce the laws. He has taken outsiders as favored enemies and I wanted him to be able to apply this bonus to eidolons because they can be a problem.
See if your GM will let you take "Eidolon" as a favored enemy sub-type. "Extraplanar" is too broad, but "Eidolon" is very specific -- it implies that you are planning to fight against a lot of foes who are Sommoners.
Is (extraplanar) not a subtype?
It is not a proper type, or at least not much of one. You see, it is in fact relative to which plane you are on. It is the label for a creature that is not on its home plane (every entry is written with the assumption that you are on the material plane). So your characters would in fact become extraplanar if they traveled to the Abyss, for instance.
It is only associated with outsiders due to this fact as well, since outsiders are composed of essence from a plane other than the material one...they usually live on the plane that their essence comes from (although, no necessarily, with native outsiders).
So why have it at all? Well...if you banish an outsider back to its native plane....your spell would be rather wasted if you are already on that native plane. And sending a creature to some other random plane is generally a higher level spell than returning it back from whence it came. So it is mostly for spell effects and such.
The reason "Extraplanar" is too broad to use as a favored enemy sub-type is that it includes virtually all other outsider sub-types except for "Native".
The main problem a Ranger would face in picking favored enemies would be in regard to outsiders who have no type other than "Extraplanar".
Extraplanars are just creatures out of their original plane, so, in a way, it's the perfect subtype for a summon-killer, but yeah, it's too broad if you don't navigate on other planes... And a little nut (How can you develop tactics against creatures only when they are out of their plane ?)
/!\ House-rule /!\
If your GM has a specific planar architecture and he's willing to make some house-rules, it could be interesting to take your favored enemy in outsider (plane X), like Outsider (Shadow plane).
But you would need to determine how summons work with it, and the only idea I got is a random dice to determine from which plane the creatures come from, except if the monster/summoner like a particular plane.
Still, it could be interesting to have some opinions from designers.
Archives of Nethys
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The Eidolon is an outsider with the same alignment as his summoner.
If the summoner is evil, FE (evil outsider) should work. If the summoner is good, FE (good outsiders) should work. same for lawful/chaotic.
It's clear in the Eidolon class feature, it states they are outsiders and their alignment matches their master. No Extra "Outsider: Eidolon" needed, unless you to take one that works on all eidolons regardless of alignment, and GM is ok with it.
Except an outsider whose alignment is evil, but does not have the evil subtype would not allow you to get the favored enemy bonuses.
A thought just occurred to me; all Outsiders gain the native subtype when on their home plane so Favored Enemy: outsider(native) would be quite versatile if you were plane-hopping and fighting on their home turf; ie, fighting Devils in Hell, Demons in Abyss, Angels in Heaven, etc.
I don't believe that is true, do you have a source? Pretty sure they simply lose the extraplanar subtype on their home plane.
Also, Partizanski is right, an Eidolon having an alignment doesn't give it a subtype.
No. The extraplanar subtype is applied to any creature that are not on his own plan.
The native subtype is a subtype only for outsiders that are bound to the material plane, because of a mortal ancestor for example. They change the specificity of the outsider type, as native outsiders can be resurrected for example.
For reference
Extraplanar Subtype: This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.
Native Subtype: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.
A Devil in Hell is no longer extraplanar, but he isn't 'Native'. 'Native' is speciaifically for Outsiders that, well, aren't really from Outside.
This can mean mortals with Outsider ancestry (Aasimar, tieflings, geniekin, a good number of Half-celestials and half-fiends), or can mean beings that, while like Outsiders in that they are immortal manifestations of an ideal, are still from their world, like Rakshasa, Oni, and Kami. (But oddly enough, not Fey.)
A Devil in Hell is no longer extraplanar, but he isn't 'Native'. 'Native' is speciaifically for Outsiders that, well, aren't really from Outside.
This can mean mortals with Outsider ancestry (Aasimar, tieflings, geniekin, a good number of Half-celestials and half-fiends), or can mean beings that, while like Outsiders in that they are immortal manifestations of an ideal, are still from their world, like Rakshasa, Oni, and Kami. (But oddly enough, not Fey.)
I come away with the feeling that the native outsider signifies an immortal essence being bound in a frame or shell of mortal flesh. For example, rakshasa are eternally reincarnating spirits that are born in material form to mortal parents or to a tryst between a rakshasa and a mortal.
The vast majority of Outsiders are extraplanar. That's why they're called Outsiders. Allowing a ranger to pick Extraplanar as an outsider subtype would basically defeat the point of the subtype rule.
Note that while extraplanar is not on the list for favored enemy, bane does not pick off a list but lets you pick any subtype, unfortunately including: extraplanar.
I come away with the feeling that the native outsider signifies an immortal essence being bound in a frame or shell of mortal flesh. For example, rakshasa are eternally reincarnating spirits that are born in material form to mortal parents or to a tryst between a rakshasa and a mortal.
That's true of rakshasa and oni, but not of kami.
The Eidolon is an outsider with the same alignment as his summoner.
If the summoner is evil, FE (evil outsider) should work. If the summoner is good, FE (good outsiders) should work. same for lawful/chaotic.
It's clear in the Eidolon class feature, it states they are outsiders and their alignment matches their master. No Extra "Outsider: Eidolon" needed, unless you to take one that works on all eidolons regardless of alignment, and GM is ok with it.
Nope. There is a difference between an evil outsider and outsider (evil) (...ninja'd by 6 hours....darn). A perfect example would be an Efreeti. They are outsiders with the fire subtype (which is its own valid option for a favored enemy), and they just happen to be evil.
They do not have the evil subtype, which is its own distinct thing, with its own bonuses and penalties. And the ranger's favored enemy ability says you pick a creature type and subtype (for humanoids and outsiders).
Actual alignment has little to nothing to do with it. The rules acknowledge that a creature that gains an alignment other than it subtype, while rare, could still count as the subtype alignment, as well as its new alignment, for applicable effects. So a fallen angel or a demon with a conscience would in fact be liable to both smite evil and smite good. And since they also ding both on various detect spells...well...it can suck to be them...
Resurrecting the thread:
The Minkan "Yokai Hunter" can take "Outsider (native)" as a (sort of) favored enemy.