Hey there. I'm starting the process of cleaning up some of my old Pathfinder tutorials and visual aids. These tutorials are based on questions that players have had, over time, regarding the Pathfinder system.
I could use some ideas for this one, currently: Actions in Pathfinder.
That is:
1. I'd appreciate any ideas to make the document more clear or usable
2. I'd appreciate some rules-checking
3. I'd appreciate any general feedback you have to offer, such as questions or conflicts that you've encountered in your life as PF DM or Player; for example, are there areas of the game you've had to explain more often than others? Which areas? I may make these a subject for a future tutorial or aid.
Some of these tutorials will need more work than others, so I appreciate your feedback and ask for your patience as I work through them. Also, I recognize too that it can be difficult both in writing and critiquing them.
As a special note regarding this visual: this one is a little less easy for me to edit. If I am a little slower to respond, it is due to that and not that I don't appreciate your feedback. I will be keeping an eye on this thread. :3
What this thread is NOT: an area to complain that tutorials aren't needed or aren't wanted. I'm attempting to improve an existing project.
Lacking the deep familiarity with the rules to help provide critique or feedback, I'm dotting this anyway because I think this would be important.
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I like the concept.
I see a couple of problems. Your tutorial redefines what a move action is in the rules. I suggest you rename it as "Movement."
Suggest it be organized as follows with a couple of additional sub-category boxes:
1) Attacking Once or Cast Most Spells
1.A) Movement
1.A.1) 5'step and Move Equivalent Action
1.A.2) Normal move (Insert the BAB+1 note as part of this)
or
1.A.3) Charge (Insert notes re distance, partial charge w/draw)
1.B) Attack or Cast Most Spells
1.B.1 Attack as part of Charge
1.B.2 Standard Action Attack
1.B.3 Cast Most Spells (note: casting time of <1r
1.C) Swift Action
1.D) Free action(s) comment: want to communicate multiples possible
2) Attacking More Than Once or Cast 1r Spells
2.A) Movement
2.A.1) 5'step only (Insert note: can 5'step as part of full attack.) Comment: remove BAB+1 note; cannot draw with BAB as part of 5'step.
2.B) Full Round Action
Full Attack (Keep note)
Cast Spell with casting time of 1r
2.C and D) As 1.C and 1.D
3) No Attack or Spell
3.A) Move Only
3.A.1) Run (Farthest; provokes AoO throught movement and denies Dex to AC)or
3.A.2) Withdraw (move up to double move speed in any direction, prevents AoO 1st sq. only) or
3.A.3) Double Move (BAB +1 note here)
3.B) Move and Something Else
3.B.1 Move (BAB +1 note here) and
3.B.1.a) Move Equivalent Action or
3.B.1.b) Standard Action
3.B.2 5'Step and
3.B.2.a) Move Equivalent Action and
3.B.2.a.i) 2nd Move Equivalent Action or
3.B.2.a.ii) Standard Action
3.C and D) as 1.C and 1.D
4) Surprise (Not Addressed Yet)
5) Outside of Turn (comment: changed from Outside of Round)
5.A) Immediate Action (comment: with verbage) and
5.B) Attack of Opportunity
RAW, you can only combine drawing a weapon with using a move action to move--a 5' step doesn't qualify. Also, the Glossary should not define a 5' step as a Move Action as that is incorrect.
In the Attacking Once block, Charge is listed as a Move action. A player with limited rules knowledge may take that to mean that a Charge is movement followed by a Standard Action which is incorrect as a Charge is a completely different type of action that is a type of Full Round Action.
For the "Using More Than One Attack" block, the "Full Attack" is inconsistent with all of the other actions that you've listed. I expected it to say "Full Round Action" instead. The Glossary block describes all other typical actions, Move, Standard, Swift, Free, and Immediate but neglects to mention the Full Round Action.
Here's the diagram I made for my players. I gotta say that yours is much more approachable and presents a more filtered view of the most relevant actions.
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Here's the diagram I made for my players. I gotta say that yours is much more approachable and presents a more filtered view of the most relevant actions.
I like them both for different reasons. Ansel, yours has the traditional rulebook approach that sorta looks like a menu for a Chinese restaurant family mean (1 choice of these, 1 choice of those, 1 choice of the other thing). Ruggs' has approached it from the beginning player's perspective: "What do you wanna do? Here are the most common...." The action system tends to have a steep learning curve that many new players have a problem with. He's done a good job of helping a new player get to a ledge part way up the mountain.
Ansel, yours has the traditional rulebook approach that sorta looks like a menu for a Chinese restaurant family mean (1 choice of these, 1 choice of those, 1 choice of the other thing).
I should put 1-3 peppers next to each entry to indicate the spiciness of the action.
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A bit of brainstorming about where new players seem to have problems:
1) You can take a full round action or you can both a standard and a move action. Ansel's version does a nice job of this. Ruggs' leaves this message for a later date.
2) You can take a 2nd move action instead of a standard action. This is one that is troublesome. My suggestions for Ruggs' tries to capture this. Ansel's could be improved with an additional line in the standard actions section, "Take any Move action."
3) No 5'step when you've otherwise moved.
4) You can always move 5', but you cannot always do this as a 5'step. This one generally comes in later just because the situations when it comes up are occasional. With brand new players, best to avoid terrain that has this situation.
5) When you can draw a weapon or ready a shield as a free action. This one is a bit funny.
A bit of brainstorming about where new players seem to have problems:
1) You can take a full round action or you can both a standard and a move action. Ansel's version does a nice job of this. Ruggs' leaves this message for a later date.
2) You can take a 2nd move action instead of a standard action. This is one that is troublesome. My suggestions for Ruggs' tries to capture this. Ansel's could be improved with an additional line in the standard actions section, "Take any Move action."
3) No 5'step when you've otherwise moved.
4) You can always move 5', but you cannot always do this as a 5'step. This one generally comes in later just because the situations when it comes up are occasional. With brand new players, best to avoid terrain that has this situation.
5) When you can draw a weapon or ready a shield as a free action. This one is a bit funny.
A big thank-you to you both. I didn't know that about the draw. Some of our players, and DMs, will be quite surprised.
I like the idea of updating it to "movement," also. The 5' step is all sorts of special, and describing it, and all of its caveats, can be a little hairy.
Ansel, I named it "Using More than One Attack" because it's addressed to new players. That is, from my experience, they'll come to the table going: "I want to attack a bunch of times!" This chart helps them understand if they can or can't. They don't know the term "Full Attack Action" yet or what it means but over time, I hope will learn and become enthusiastic gamers.
Also, if you think of other ideas, please drop on by. I'm saving these ideas, and edits, to a text file so I can think on them and figure out where it needs to go.
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A big thank-you to you both. I didn't know that about the draw. Some of our players, and DMs, will be quite surprised.
You're welcome, and looking forward to seeing the final product.
As far as when you can draw for free, it's a fairly common misunderstanind or variant. The language of the RAW is easily subject to coming to the understanding your group has; they might choose to keep their current interpretation. It tends to be more common in isolated groups, whereas players who play with a wider variety of groups and/or in PFS are more likely to understand the drawn weapon as possible with the Move action called Move, not just any movement.
Ansel's could be improved with an additional line in the standard actions section, "Take any Move action."
It's the 4th line under Standard Action. :)