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So, there is a character I've conducted through plenty of play by posts in different forms. I've put him through plenty of trials, and have had him show up as a bit of an ally/enemy in various situations in my own self-ran campaigns.
With that being said, I have no idea what alignment he is, as he teeters between Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil
The problem I have with him, is that as he teeters on this little proper imbalance, I believe he might actually be Chaotically Evil. Now, there's a problem with that, as, even with this fact other players seem to find him... bearable. That's the only reason I suspect that he's not CE, but then again, I think he might still be.
Fact 1: In the case of Religion, he is stupendously religious. He worships the Chaotic Evil deity Zura, Demon lord, and Vampire queen. Worshiped primarily by Cannibals, Vampires, and Succubi.
Fact 2: He is not a Cannibal, and actually dislikes the idea of feasting on the flesh of a fellow human being, or humanoid.
Fact 3: He doesn't like people that aren't religious at all, such as Atheists. He has a strong belief in his faith and it's teachings and believes that people with no faith have no reason for being, and as such, considers them expendable if necessary as "They're not going to go anywhere."
Fact 4: The character respects the values of his allies, in any form, and typically avoids getting in the way of those values. It doesn't effect him, as he worships primarily alone, and even then, only in places that support his lifestyle.
Fact 5: The character heavily respects those that respect his personal views, even if they don't necessarily agree with them. This does not apply to Atheists.
Fact 6: The character in questions frequently doesn't consider his own safety until he knows he could definitely die. (If he had 100 health, he wouldn't retreat till he had 15) Even then, if he has typically enjoyed an equal exchange of blows, he will continue to fight. (This explains the Diehard and Endurance feats)
Fact 7: The character will not harm women, unless given permission to do so, or unless that woman harms another more beautiful/likable woman. Zuran faith teaches that women are temples to Zura, and he respects them as religious figures and sex idols alike.
Fact 8: The character believes that women are ranked via beauty, and is remarkably blunt about the fact unless he knows that insulting the looks of a woman would inconvenience him significantly.
Fact 9: Despite the fact that women are temples in his religion, he tends to avoid flirting with those that are good aligned, as he knows that they would use him with no reward in mind. He much prefers those of CN alignment or any evil.
Fact 10: In the case of any task involving saving a woman, all objectives take a back seat, provided that the main task could assist in the rescue.
Fact 11: The character in question is Sadistic, typically enjoying slicing enemies to ribbons with a scythe. He takes great joy in this, seeing it as partial blood offerings to his deity. He is extremely open about his sadism, but speaks lightly of it outside of combat, simply saying "He enjoys fighting too much."
Fact 12: The character is also Masochistic, taking pleasure in pain. When saner men would fall over and be unconcious, he would simply fall into a state of pure bliss as the blood trickled off of every gaping wound on his person. He also considers this open worship of his deity.
Fact 13: Outside of combat, and with no women in the area, the character is extremely polite, though words things involving human nature rather morbidly. After all, we're all just balls of temptation, aren't we?
Fact 14: He avoids inter-group conflict with a passion. He is a charmer in the group that acts as a wonderful face, but occasionally his rumors can catch up to him and cause questions. He does, of course, agree to the truthfulness of every single one of them. He usually dismisses the questions with :
"You don't see me questioning any of you about your personal experiences with the beast of 2 backs, do you?"
Fact 15: If at any point a woman falls in combat for any reason in the presence of him, he flies into a fit of carnal fury, properly, and gruesomely taking glorious painful revenge on anyone who may have had a part in it. (Even if she wasn't pretty)
Fact 16: He has a soft spot for Succubi, as they were the prime speakers of his church.
Alright so that's all of that. Any questions to properly narrow down his alignment would be great, but, as far as I can tell, he's NE or CN.
With all of his rules involving women he might even be a LE worshipper of a CN deity, but, the laws might just mean he's NE instead.
Help me out?
Oh and the Character's name is "Dimitri Mavis"
Nuetral Evil I think. He's evil and sadistic, regardless of whether he goes out of his way to be. He's hedonistic but has quiet a bit of self control. He's opinionated, but he's not enforcing anything.
Sounds like a nice guy really, but I might be wierd.
So what you are saying is, "he has quirks" ? And you have made a case that he is not "pure" evil. I think you have answered your own question.
So that's 1 for NE and 1 CN
*hngggggg*
So yeah. Water wet,tides not turned. Situation's still the same.
I'm leaning more toward LE now that I've taken rounds to look at his code. Removing the cannibalism kind of removes a lot of the evil.
So that's 1 for NE and 1 CN
*hngggggg*
I hate to ask... but what exactly is that thing? And just means there are many ways to interpret the same person and its not a really big big deal how you place him. I think NE myself of course. I think you can be evil and still be a nice guy though.
CE
His rules are his own, and conforms to no earthly authority. His personal code takes precedence over the law of the land at all times making him chaotic.
One of the characteristics of a chaotic, is that it is hard to pin them down, because to do exactly the same thing all the time, would be against their nature. This guy sounds like while he may have some patterns, many of them are so contradictory, that Chaotic part of evil fits best.
At least there is no question that this is an evil dude, and just not some Neutral having bad days once in a while.
CE
His rules are his own, and conforms to no earthly authority. His personal code takes precedence over the law of the land at all times making him chaotic.
Well, he wouldn't exactly go looking for hookers in a lawful good town, and most of the women would dislike his methods of persuasion.
(Too bad a +14 Diplomacy score doesn't care.)
with that being said, I like the observation, as he wouldn't really obey the "Happy Hour" laws of a city.
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Need more facts. Is he sadistic outside of combat? What greater objectives is he working toward? Is he repressing urges or just like this?
I would say based on the facts you give he is certainly not CE. He has way too many restrictions. He may be NE but he also has a lot of lawful tendencies.
I have always thought of alignment like this.
NE = selfishness. The most important thing in a NE characters world is the character itself. A NE character can justify any action as long as it benefits itself. A masochists could fit in right here. Perhaps a sadist as well as long as the sadism is for self gratification.
CE = destruction. CE characters revel in destruction and ruination. That is the reason for their existance. They are also bullies. "Might makes right." and "I want to see the world burn" are common themes for CE. Your guy's respect for women and tollerance of the beliefs of others just isn't CE. "Respect" is not in CE vocabulary...only fear of greater power.
He's not truly Evil, he's just Evil's groupie.
Chaotic Neutral. He may have personal code, but it's a haphazard one tailored to his own desires.
Fact 17: Dimitri is primarily seeking out a "partner" in a sense that he wants someone who is almost exactly like him as a significant other, only more of a mistress.
Fact 18: Dimitri doesn't repress his urges, and he's been like this the majority of his adult life shortly after he was brought to Zuran Faith.
His respect for others would make him NE in my eyes. A truly chaotic character has no regard for the views of others, regardless of situation.
He seems to at least attempt to respect local laws and customs so long as they don't go directly against his own principles (no injury to women & the faithless have no purpose). True, his code is his own, but it makes some compensation for the viewpoints of others.
I'm going to post his concept background in a moment to make things more reasonable and seeable. His reason for being would probably help this situation.
I'm going to vote for LE. He has a personal code, and the things that make him 'fly out of control' are actually in direct response to violations of his personal code, so those actions are not chaotic. Then, given who he worships and how he worships them (sadistically), he also looks evil in behavior.
I'm interested in seeing your concept background write-up.
He seems to put a lot of importance upon religious dogma and makes arbitrary distinctions about people to determine their value. That indicates lawful to me. In terms of good/evil axis, there's nothing here individually that crosses into "moral event horizon territory" and he could be neutral, but taken together it does paint a portrait of someone who falls on the darker end of the spectrum.
I'd say he's lawful evil, leaning towards neutral evil.
LE.
For most men that exist, women are a lot of things. Conduits of the future, pleasure centers, friends, mothers, role models, and just so many other things.
For Dmitri, they were literally everything. Growing up, Dmitri knew no other man, as he was a sacred child in the Church of Zura. He was surrounded on all ends, at almost all times, by Women of humble make. Succubi tended to him in his younger years, but at the time he didn't know what they were.
Growing up in a church to the god of pleasure and all things hedonistic had surprising ramifications on his mental state and his outlook on life.
For starters, he didn't immediately become a pervert. At the age of 16 he became curious.
He inquired as to the different methods, and the reasons behind their gallivanting.
Shocking everyone with the inquisition, the leader of the church, a Succubus by the name of Avalni, took a great amount of interest in him. Usually seen as conduits of sex and contracts, Dmitri saw the Succubus as a basin of knowledge and insight into the feminine heart.
Avalni taught him how to truly love a person, and many ways to pay his respects to Zura in various Acts. Plenty of things came into play at around this time. He was, at first, taught directly by Avalni ways of persuasion and how to carry himself, as well as how to please both the minds and sexual desires of the opposite sex. By the time he was ready to go on his pilgrimage, he was oozing with charisma.
Prior to the journey, Avalni's final teaching was a secret. She told unto him that Zura didn't need a church, and that she simply enjoyed the bounty of carnal desire in the populace of the world itself. As such, at the age of 24 Dmitri left the cathedral, coming into the world as a conduit of pure carnal desire, while at the same time, truly respectful.
Zura could be worshiped via the drawing of blood, no matter who's.
Sexual acts also worked. Simply causing another person to give into their carnal desires willingly and smoothly was enough to do so. Forcing someone to do it was wrong, as the more willing, the better.
Though looking at him now provides the depiction of an "off" person, Dmitri knows plenty about himself and everything that he enjoys partaking of, and simply lives for the happiness of himself, and the worship of his most beloved deity.
Neutral Evil, he is a sadist that worships an evil deity, he can be often has no trouble restraining himself apparently because he does not much care what other people think as long as it doesn't affect him much, and is uninterested in ethics as long as it does not directly affect him or his believes, he would freely traffic with demons without a care.
This guy might be CN, CE or NE. I'd go with CE, might be CN but I'd like to avoid the 'crazy dude' alignment. He seems very impulsive, his restraint in many social situations is actually indifference concerning most things, including morals, not to be mistaken for lawfulness or discipline. He respects people that share his views to some extent, and delights in sadism and destroying his opponents, but projects these urges outside of the group.
Personally I feel this person has to be psychotic, CE alignment, no sane person could switch on and off like that.
No the site is blocked atm by the way, so you are probably not banned.
No sane person could switch on and off like that.
I enjoyed this part more than I should have, but I will attest to him being a bit "off"
Also, many thanks for checking orange! I thought I'd been banned because I disagreed with their "The character is bland and tasteless." comments.
Huh, I don't see him as that crazy. Evil, but not crazy.
I can think of like 3 people that would disagree, sin.
Huh, I don't see him as that crazy. Evil, but not crazy.
Well the line is hard to draw, in psychology most evil people will be deemed crazy to some extent really. real world psychology does not mesh well with a fantasy game though. ^^
Yeah, I know it doesn't. Most of the characters I've seen in play are pretty 2 demensional though, which makes them much easier to place on the chart. When a character is more complex who acts in various ways for many reasons it doesn't really mesh well with the alignment system sometimes.
I also know people disagree. Maybe I'm just crazy for not seeing his crazy?
So, the general assumption is LE, right? It seems to vastly differ, but most are saying LE or CE.
Now for the important question:
What are the downsides and good sides of having a character such as this in a party?
He's an evil person with self control, personality, and opinions and a general fun time. He also comes with the perks of being evil, such as immunitty to fiend totem or blasphemy.
Downsides include not everyone being okay with a worshipper of Zura, evilness, or his interest in women could quickly turn into a mess. Particularly the part where he goes berserk and enjoys bloodshed.
Mind if I break out some old terminology?
CN tends towards evil
Mind if I break out some old terminology?
CN tends towards evil
You mean Chaotic Neutral with Evil tendencies? I could see that, but at the same time, I could agree with LE.
It helps if the person in question isn't a basket case, but, 'lo and behold..
Removing the cannibalism kind of removes a lot of the evil.
There are/were several Pacific Islander tribes, North, Central & South American tribes, and several other instances across the world of cannilbalism that is not considered an evil act. Many of these tribes or early nations that believed that by consuming the flesh of their enemies, that would gain the strength of the person consumed. To eat another warrior's heart was considered a highest honor. It is only in the more "civilized" worlds that cannibalism is considered an evil act. I'm suggesting NE. He has a form of moral code, but it is governed by his Evil diety. He doesn't openly oppose the laws of the lands (in combat contradiction doesn't count as opposition).
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Neutral Evil for me.
... But he does actually have respect for other laws... unless they somehow involve women.
Let's put it like this.
Dmitri walks into Switzerland.
Dmitri is happy as hell.
Dmitri goes into Saudi Arabia.
Dmitri destroys Saudi Arabia.
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... But he does actually have respect for other laws... unless they somehow involve women.
Let's put it like this.
Dmitri walks into Switzerland.
Dmitri is happy as hell.Dmitri goes into Saudi Arabia.
Dmitri destroys Saudi Arabia.
That's not "respecting other laws", that's living by your own laws and lashing out at anyone who doesn't let you do what you want or agree with you. The fact that the societal norm of Switzerland is close enough to his own code to make him happy doesn't mean he respects Switzerland's authority; it's still his own laws he's living by and he'd still "destroy" any legal body that got in his way, including Switzerland.
Good point, but at the same time he does respect the majority of laws that in no way poorly effect ladies, and tends to respect people of other alignments.
He isn't chaotic enough to disregard common sense, at the least.
chaotic does not mean stupid. Chaotic means the laws for thier own sake are not a hinderance for him. A chaotic person would break a law or code when it suits them. I would go with NE.
I just get the sense that he uses women as an exucse to go crazy and kill people. That following these rules allows him to do what he wants. Although if need be he will break these rules for his desires.
He seems nn to me.
I just get the sense that he uses women as an exucse to go crazy and kill people. That following these rules allows him to do what he wants. Although if need be he will break these rules for his desires.
He'd probably kill you simply because you said he used women.
.... I don't think that helps.
(He doesn't use women)
You can worship a demon lord without being evil. Only Clerics and paladins(setting pending) are bound to worship someone within one step of their alignment. Some of the Demon Lords are more mild than others.
I just get the sense that he uses women as an exucse to go crazy and kill people. That following these rules allows him to do what he wants. Although if need be he will break these rules for his desires.He'd probably kill you simply because you said he used women.
.... I don't think that helps.
(He doesn't use women)
Yeah, the more he looks to have a tendancy to flip out and slaughter at small things the more chaotic he starts to look. Self control means something I'd think.
He's probably somewhere between NE and LE. L(N)E or N(L)E. Probably I would be a bit more inclined to peg the latter myself.
Yeah, the more he looks to have a tendancy to flip out and slaughter at small things the more chaotic he starts to look. Self control means something I'd think.
I just get the sense that he uses women as an exucse to go crazy and kill people. That following these rules allows him to do what he wants. Although if need be he will break these rules for his desires.He'd probably kill you simply because you said he used women.
.... I don't think that helps.
(He doesn't use women)
Well he wouldn't actually kill him. He'd certainly tell him different and force him to apologize, however.
(And if he said he wouldn't he'd just dislike him.)
(And then if he said something else, he'd spin around and cleave him in two.)
You can worship a demon lord without being evil. Only Clerics and paladins(setting pending) are bound to worship someone within one step of their alignment. Some of the Demon Lords are more mild than others.
In Pathfinder RPG all characters that claim devotion to a particular diety are required to be with-in one alignment step of that diety. After all, a LG character can't worship a CE diety without penalty to his alignment.
You can worship a demon lord without being evil. Only Clerics and paladins(setting pending) are bound to worship someone within one step of their alignment. Some of the Demon Lords are more mild than others.In Pathfinder RPG all characters that claim devotion to a particular diety are required to be with-in one alignment step of that diety. After all, a LG character can't worship a CE diety without penalty to his alignment.
Going to have to show me the text sorry. I must've missed it if thats there.
A LG character usually won't worship a CE diety anyway?
To recieve a benefit from the one you are worshipping you must be within one step from the alignment. If a CE prays to a LG god he can. The god may not appreciate him, but he COULD do it.
Duboris. I still think he uses women as an excuse to kill people. I feel he wants to kill people ruthlessly, but restrains knowing that a pyscopathic killer is not an image he wants(maybe it will limit him with other opportunities). So he uses the notion of protecting women as an excuse to release his urges.
Pointing out his own flawed agenda would cause him to put me on a short list towards death, if I do not succumb to him and his reasonings. All the more reason to place him as NE.
Or maybe... He just really really loves women. Years of brainwashing and being raised by succubus worshippers of Zura might cause him to be a little different than your avarage human. Demon Lords are usually pretty okay with the whole bloody slaughter for fun and pasttime gig aren't they?
People's personalities aren't measured in numbers.